Indesign CS6 Absturz bei html-Export
Was ergibt sich hieraus?
Problemsignatur:
Problemereignisname: APPCRASH
Anwendungsname: InDesign.exe
Anwendungsversion: 8.0.1.406
Anwendungszeitstempel: 50335e39
Fehlermodulname: EBOOKEXPORT.APLN
Fehlermodulversion: 8.0.1.406
Fehlermodulzeitstempel: 50336629
Ausnahmecode: c0000005
Ausnahmeoffset: 0003b688
Betriebsystemversion: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Gebietsschema-ID: 1031
Zusatzinformation 1: 0a9e
Zusatzinformation 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Zusatzinformation 3: 0a9e
Zusatzinformation 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Was ergibt sich hieraus?
Was soll sich daraus ergeben? Ohne Systeminfo und andere Details, wie z.B. was für Features du in deinem Layout nutzt und wie die Exporteinstellungen sind, ist der beste Crashreport nutzlos. Ja, wir sehen, dass das entsprechedne Plugin crasht, aber das hätte auch deine Oma ohne irgendwelche Computerkenntnisse erkannt....
Mylenium
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How to fix InDesign CS6 cloud crashes while exporting to pdf?
Hi My InDesign CS6 cloud crashes when exporting to pdf.
It's a Mac Book Pro, OS X 10.7.4. It shows a blank warning, and then there is a long report, here is part of it. Even all my old files can't be exported to pdf. Can any one help?
Process: Adobe InDesign CS6 [325]
Path: /Applications/Adobe InDesign CS6/Adobe InDesign CS6.app/Contents/MacOS/Adobe InDesign CS6
Identifier: com.adobe.InDesign
Version: 8.0.0.370 (8000)
Code Type: X86 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [119]
Date/Time: 2013-04-23 18:08:27.430 +1000
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.7.4 (11E2620)
Report Version: 9
Interval Since Last Report: 572434 sec
Crashes Since Last Report: 18
Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 621470 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 13
Anonymous UUID: 33716403-25A9-4DBD-B3F9-99FAE5855C5D
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000000Indeed. To be more specific, typically program execution begins in a main() function, which calls some other function (say, to handle menu selections), which calls some other function (whatever menu function the user chose), which calls some other function, etc., etc., perhaps 30 or 40 functions deep.
Because of the way C++ calling conventions work, the history of which function called which other function is preserved in a data structure known as the stack. (The stack also does other things). Under normal circumstances, this "stack trace" is reconstructed to form the crash report.
There is one stack trace for each thread (parallel execution components of the program), but the thread that crashed is usually the only one of interest.
In this case, thread 0 crashed. Its stack trace is meaningless. It contains two stack frames (e.g. functions). At the top, the most recent function is called _XHNDL_trapback_instruction, which is a pseudo address that basically tells us nothing, other than there was some sort of fault.
But typically we will see what function called that top function; and the function that called that; etc., etc.
In your case we do not. Allegedly the crashing code was called from the address 4294967295, or in hexadecimal 0xffffffff. And that is the largest number that a 32-bit word can hold. It is, sadly, garbage.
So your stack trace tell us zilch -
InDesign cs6 crashes when I export to an epub file.
The file orginally was a cs5.5 file. I have tried rebuilding the file in a new digital file but that hasn't worked. When I save it to open it in cs5.5, I can export to an epub file without any problem. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'm running OS 10.7 and I have 4 Gigs of memory. I upgraded to cs6 principally because the advanced epub ability as I'll be publishing mainly e-books. Help! What's happening?
Here is the beginnings of the crash report. (I tried using a converted IDML file.)
Process: Adobe InDesign CS6 [1298]
Path: /Applications/Adobe InDesign CS6/Adobe InDesign CS6.app/Contents/MacOS/Adobe InDesign CS6
Identifier: com.adobe.InDesign
Version: 8.0.0.370 (8000)
Code Type: X86 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [271]
Date/Time: 2012-05-27 17:20:00.866 -0400
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.7.4 (11E53)
Report Version: 9
Interval Since Last Report: -7314 sec
Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 262 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 6
Anonymous UUID: 312E1911-54EA-4BAB-B989-09606B5F50C7
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000000
VM Regions Near 0:
--> __PAGEZERO 0000000000000000-0000000000001000 [ 4K] ---/--- SM=NUL /Applications/Adobe InDesign CS6/Adobe InDesign CS6.app/Contents/MacOS/Adobe InDesign CS6
__TEXT 0000000000001000-0000000000005000 [ 16K] r-x/rwx SM=COW /Applications/Adobe InDesign CS6/Adobe InDesign CS6.app/Contents/MacOS/Adobe InDesign CS6
Application Specific Information:
objc[1298]: garbage collection is OFF
Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f1c5c9 0x19ee0000 + 247241
1 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f1f0a7 0x19ee0000 + 258215
2 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f26d34 0x19ee0000 + 290100
3 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f26d07 0x19ee0000 + 290055
4 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f26d07 0x19ee0000 + 290055
5 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f19ffb 0x19ee0000 + 237563
6 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f602ff GetPlugIn + 210559
7 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19f62df9 GetPlugIn + 221561
8 com.adobe.InDesign.EBookExport 0x19eec25c 0x19ee0000 + 49756
9 PublicLib.dylib 0x01722c62 CExportProvider::ExportToFile(IDFile const&, IDocument*, IPMUnknown*, PMString const&, K2::UIFlags) + 370
10 com.adobe.InDesign.Import Export UI 0x0f23461a GetPlugIn + 19946
11 com.adobe.InDesign.Import Export UI 0x0f233307 GetPlugIn + 15063
12 com.adobe.InDesign.Import Export UI 0x0f2316f6 GetPlugIn + 7878
13 com.adobe.InDesign.Actions 0x17103bc4 GetPlugIn + 19908
14 com.adobe.InDesign.Actions 0x171087b2 GetPlugIn + 39346
15 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x0df70614 0xdf60000 + 67092
16 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9be13dec _InvokeEventHandlerUPP(OpaqueEventHandlerCallRef*, OpaqueEventRef*, void*, long (*)(OpaqueEventHandlerCallRef*, OpaqueEventRef*, void*)) + 36
17 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9bc8f4f3 _ZL23DispatchEventToHandlersP14EventTargetRecP14OpaqueEventRefP14HandlerCallRec + 1602
18 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9bc8e970 _ZL30SendEventToEventTargetInternalP14OpaqueEventRefP20OpaqueEventTargetRefP14HandlerCall Rec + 482
19 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9bca3755 SendEventToEventTarget + 76
20 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x0df6ee21 0xdf60000 + 60961
21 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x0df8d327 GetPlugIn + 12007
22 com.adobe.InDesign 0x00001ec5 main + 341
23 com.adobe.InDesign 0x00001d55 start + 53
Thread 1:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x99b6490a kevent + 10
1 libdispatch.dylib 0x904ace10 _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 969
2 libdispatch.dylib 0x904ab85f _dispatch_mgr_thread + 53
Message was edited by: JSiamonThanks for your response. I just gave up and rebuilt the file and now the file is fine. Incidentally, I had created two InDesign book files at the same time and one opened in CS6 without any problem. Both use the same chapter head graphics -- so who knows what strange beasts these computer programs are.
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InDesign CS6 crashes during PDF export
I have been attempting to export a magazine design to PDF using the dialogue in InDesign CS6 (for Mac). The PDF gets to around 90% in the background tasks panel and crashes every time. I have removed preferences, reinstalled InDesign, upgraded to Suitcase Fusion 4 and am still having problems. I have even tried printing as a .ps file and it crashes during that as well. A few weeks ago I had a similar problem but found that I was opening CS5 .indd files and not resaving them as CS6 .indd files before exporting. Once I resaved/renamed them in CS6 it appeared to fix the problem. Now I can't seem to fix this one. I have exported other files and it works fine. I even packaged the .idml file and a colleague of mine opened it up in CS5.5 and was able to export it. I thought it might have something to do with corrupt fonts but I disabled all fonts and still couldn't get it to export. Any help or advice would be much appreciated as I am on a deadline. Here is the code from my latest crash report: http://pastebin.com/mRCLsYti
Appears to have something to do with this thread but I have no clue what is going on here...
Thread 32 Crashed:
0 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x93ad89c6 __pthread_kill + 10
1 libsystem_c.dylib 0x91240f78 pthread_kill + 106
2 libsystem_c.dylib 0x91231ce3 __abort + 198
3 libsystem_c.dylib 0x9122e64a __stack_chk_fail + 253
4 com.adobe.CoolType 0x010137c9 CTInit + 1626733
5 com.adobe.CoolType 0x01014053 CTInit + 1628919
6 com.adobe.CoolType 0x010111ba CTInit + 1616990
7 com.adobe.CoolType 0x0100f77e CTInit + 1610274
8 com.adobe.CoolType 0x00f6478e CTInit + 909874
9 com.adobe.CoolType 0x00ef40a2 CTInit + 449350
10 com.adobe.CoolType 0x00e726ba 0xe1e000 + 345786
11 com.adobe.PDFL 0x2cc792e2 PDFontPSFlushIncrGlyphList + 85285
12 com.adobe.PDFL 0x2d08e898 PDEFontGetWidthsNow + 8752
13 com.adobe.PDFL 0x2d08ebb9 PDEFontGetWidthsNow + 9553
14 com.adobe.PDFL 0x2d08fb13 PDEFontGetWidthsNow + 13483
15 com.adobe.PDFL 0x2d0909a1 PDEFontGetWidthsNow + 17209
16 com.adobe.PDFPort 0x187ffffe PDFPortInitialize + 560298
17 com.adobe.PDFPort 0x18800375 PDFPortInitialize + 561185
18 com.adobe.PDFPort 0x187e88f0 PDFPortInitialize + 464284
19 com.adobe.InDesign.PDF 0x1851cf09 0x184e7000 + 220937
20 com.adobe.InDesign.PDF 0x1854064d GetPlugIn + 66509
21 com.adobe.InDesign.PDF 0x185430b8 GetPlugIn + 77368
22 com.adobe.InDesign.PDF 0x1852abb5 0x184e7000 + 277429
23 PublicLib.dylib 0x01701d7c Command::DoImmediate(short) + 62
24 com.adobe.InDesign.Utilities 0x121ce691 0x121ca000 + 18065
25 com.adobe.InDesign.Utilities 0x121ce8a0 0x121ca000 + 18592
26 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10c2cbba 0x10c10000 + 117690
27 PublicLib.dylib 0x01702724 CmdUtils::ProcessCommand(ICommand*) + 48
28 com.adobe.InDesign.PDF 0x1866abb6 GetPlugIn + 1288502
29 com.adobe.InDesign.PDF 0x1866ef47 GetPlugIn + 1305799
30 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0a749 GetPlugIn + 852745
31 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0bca6 GetPlugIn + 858214
32 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0c804 GetPlugIn + 861124
33 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0d3c5 GetPlugIn + 864133
34 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0e98e GetPlugIn + 869710
35 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0e9fa GetPlugIn + 869818
36 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x10d0ea66 GetPlugIn + 869926
37 com.adobe.boost_threads.framework 0x01c6a40d thread_proxy + 141
38 libsystem_c.dylib 0x9123eed9 _pthread_start + 335
39 libsystem_c.dylib 0x912426de thread_start + 34 -
How do I stop InDesign CS6 from suddenly forgetting export tags for accessible Adobe PDFs?
Was working in InDesign CS6 on Windows 7 Enterprise today with a file that had a large number of export tags available, which I use when exporting accessible PDFs,
Suddenly, my selection of tags became severely limited.
When opening another blank file, even tags such as H1, P, and Story were missing. I had to replace my InDesign application preferences with those from a backup made a few weeks ago, and reimport the tags from a file done last month. Is anyone aware of an issue which would cause InDesign to suddenly lose its ability to tag stories for export?I've moved your question to the InDesign EPUB forum.
EXACTLY what version of CS6 are you running? There was a bug in an early version of CS6 that prevented either space before or space after from being recognized (I forget which). It was fixed in a later version.
What does it say in the About InDesign dialog? -
InDesign CS6 and CS5.5 Export to Interactive PDF
Hi Guys,
I am having this huge problem when I tried to export 124 pages including links, buttons (show/hide) and video (mp4) to interactive PDF. However when I tried to use CS5.5 to export, it stops at page 98 and prompts an error that say cannot be exported. In CS6, it managed to pass the page 98 but hangs at page 123 till I got to force quit it.
I am able to export in pieces but not as a whole and I believe that it could be a memory or ram issue which is beyond my control.
This is the first time I have encountered this issue. Anyone have solutions for this?
Mark PlunkettI manage to combine them in Acrobat X and the links worked, I was happy but for a while. When I tried to save the combined PDF, same thing happened, it just keeps optimizing running at 100.3% of the resources. What I have noticed using my Activity Monitor in Mac is that InDesign renders it using 1GB or Ram while Acrobat only uses 380MB of Ram when I have 8GB of ram available in my Mac. More the reason why InDesign should have gone into 64-bit in CS6, but was dissapointed it did not.
I found the cause of the rendering issue, it is not so much about the vector or image size (it does play a part though), it is because I was using too much Show / Hide functions in the Buttons Panel. There seem to be a limit to how much you can use and on how many pages you can have them. I was doing a "Drop down menu" in the PDF with this particular function, each page have about 40 Show/Hide buttons, and there is a total of 124 pages. That is what caused it not to export out successfully, when I removed the buttons, it worked after waiting for 40 minutes of exporting the file, not very happy it took so long, however it got exported.
I think that both Acrobat and InDesign developers should start looking into able to use Scratch Disk or let the users optimize more Ram to the usage of the software.
Forgot to mention that this only worked in CS6, not even close in CS5.5 -
InDesign CS6 issue on PDF export - only close active
Hi,
I have a situation with my script (or something else). The line of the code where error occurs is this:
myApplication.ActiveDocument.Export("Adobe PDF", myPDFFileName, False, myApplication.PDFExportPresets.Item("[Smallest File Size]"))
Nothing special... everyday for about 300 times (or exports) - everything went ok, but 1-2 times I get an error on exporting. The actual place when InDesign stops is shown in screenshots:
Few things to mention here:
1. sometimes InDesign not responding after this
2. sometimes it is alive but only Close is active, save, save as, save a copy are gray
3. everything can be restored from recovery
4. at that very point when exporting pdf, possible is that an inserted image from this indd file could be opened in photoshop somewhere else on the network
5. everything is on the network, indd, links, images, incopy stories
My guess is that InDesign couldn't read or get the image at this moment from the network but then again, the guys are telling me that no error is logged on router, switch, network etc...
Any medicine? Maybe how to avoid this?
Tnx. Regards,
MarkoTnx Jarek.
I'll give it a try.
One more thing to mention. Once when this happened, the links palette was empty beside many images on page and incopy stories ?!?!
Can you recall any kind of script that could be run from InDesign at the time when this happen again? Maybe anything that could alert some error or message?
Regards,
Marko -
[InDesign CS6] Ärger bei Tabellenformaten
Ich fasse es ehrlich gesagt nicht, dass ein seit wenigstens CS3 bekanntes (von mir gemeldet) Problem leider immer noch in CS6 vorhanden ist. Folgendes:
In einem Dokument habe ich ein Tabellenformat mit extra Kopfzeile erstellt. Im Tabellenformat habe ich für die Kopfzeile und den Körper unterschiedliche Zellenformate angegeben. Die Zellenformate haben dann wieder jeweils ein unterschiedliches Absatzformat. Erstelle ich nun eine neue Tabelle mit diesem Tabellenformat, sieht erst mal alles gut aus.
Schreibe ich dann jedoch Text in die Tabelle, wird nicht mein Absatzformat für die Kopfzeile und den Körper verwendet, sondern wahllos irgendein anderes aus meinen Absatzformaten. In der Toolbar wird „Kein Absatzformat“ angezeigt. Ich muss also für jede Tabelle immer noch mal zusätzlich entweder das passende Zellenformat dem Kopf und Körper zuweisen, damit auch das Absatzformat angewendet wird.
Warum bitte ich das so? Wieso wird nicht gleich das über Tabellenformat → Zellenformat → Absatzformat vorgegeben Format verwendet?
Kennt jemand einen Workaround dafür? Ziel ist einfach, dass nach dem Erstellen einer Tabelle die Zellen- und Absatzformate des Tabellenformats für Kopf, Fuß und Körper sofort angewendet werden, ohne das immer noch mal manuell zuweisen zu müssen.
GrußDu bist aber ein lustiger Geselle. Adobe ist toll, Adobe ist gut, Adobe ist perfekt,…
Aber falls es dich wirklich interessieren sollte: Der Bug ist der, dass es bei so ziemlich allen Mac-Programmen im Menü „Hilfe“ ein Suchfeld gibt, mit dem man ganz schnell alle Menüpunkte nach einem bestimmten durchsuchen kann. Weiß ich also bspw. nicht mehr genau, wo in Photoshop die Menüpunkte für das Spiegeln eines Bilds waren, tippe sich in dem Suchfeld schnell „spiegel“ und schon werden mir alle Menüpunkte angezeigt, die „spiegel“ enthalten. Diese Funktion wird von OS X bereitgestellt und steht daher allen Programmen zur Verfügung. In der englischsprachigen Version funktioniert das auch, nur in der deutschsprachigen Version gibt es seit CS5 den besagten Bug. Soweit ich das herrausgefunden habe, wird beim Kompilieren ein Flag für die Sprache falsch gesetzt, weshalb das OS die Suchfunktion nicht anzeigt.
Siehe auch hier:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4025565
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/mac_os_x_menu_search_in_german_versi on_not_shown
Statt das zu beheben, wird das Suchfeld nun konsequent in allen CS6-Programmen nicht mehr angezeigt. Bis dahin war nur Photoshop seit CS5 davon betroffen.
Aber wird natürlich wieder nur ein Anwenderfehler von mir sein… -
InDesign CS6 - Probleme bei partieller UV-Lack-Beschichtung
Hallo zusammen
um eine Postkarte partiell mit UV-Lack zu beschichten, habe ich folgende Anweisung meiner Druckerei befolgt:
In Adobe InDesign wählen Sie Lack als normale Farbe in der Farbfelder-Palette aus. Um eine Lackfarbe zu erstellen, wählen Sie in der Farbfelder-Palette Neues Farbfeld. Es öffnet sich ein neues Dialogfenster. Hier geben Sie den Farbnamen Lack ein. Da diese Farbe nicht aus CMYK zusammengesetzt wird, wählen Sie den Farbtyp Volltonfarbe. Stellen Sie nun als Farbe 100% Magenta ein. Wählen Sie nun das Objekt Ihrer Wahl mit dem schwarzen Pfeil an und duplizieren Sie dieses. Legen Sie das Objekt passgenau über das andere und färben Sie dieses mit der neu erstellten Lackfarbe ein. Achten Sie darauf, dass Sie alle Objekte, welche Sie mit der Lackfarbe eingefärbt haben auf Überdrucken stellen. Gehen Sie hierzu in die Attribute-Palette und markieren Fläche Überdrucken mit einem Häkchen. Nun schimmern unter den eingefärbten Flächen die darunterliegenden Objekte durch.
Leider schimmert bei mir das darunterliegende Bild nicht durch und die Volltonfarbe wird vollfächig und mit 100% Magenta dargestellt - was läuft da schief?
Ich habe alle Schritte nochmals geprüft und meines Erachtens habe ich alle Punkte richtig befolgt...
Danke für einen Tipp.
KirstenStu@Kirsten – see the following screenshots:
1. View overprint OFF
2. View overprint ON
The swatch "LACK" is defined this way:
(In this screenshot the overprint view is set to ON)
Uwe -
InDesign CS6 crashes when I export to PDF
VERY frustrating!! Can anyone help please? Thanks
Can you inform us on
Operating system
Build Nr of ID
What is the content of the file
How do you export (interactive or print)
Which settings do you use
What is going on before it crashes -
Trying to export to PDF from InDesign CS6 but nothing happens
I'm in InDesign CS6 and when I export to PDF, nothing happens. I have other files with the same format and they are exporting fine. I tried putting all the content into a new document but it still doesn't work. Has anyone else had this issue?
Thank you!
BridgetAdobe Community: File Crashing on Output - printing/PDF/other
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Created an interactive form in InDesign CS6, but when I export to a PDF file, using Adobe PDF (Interactive), the purple bar "Please fill out the following form…" is not visible in my PDF file.
PLEASE NOTE: My Adobe Acrobat Pro preferences do not have the check mark on under >Form >Always hide forms document message bar. The check mark is off.
I want the purple box to be visible in my interactive form, yet it is not. WHY????Because this isn't really an InDesign question, I'd post this in this Acrobat Pro forum:
http://forums.adobe.com/community/acrobat/forms
That's never worked that way for me. -
Why won't Acrobat X Pro honor the margin (art box) from PDF's exported from InDesign CS6?
When I export a PDF from InDesign CS6 with specific margins, Acrobat does not recognize the Art box. (I have PitStop Pro 11 for page box view)Thanks Steve,
We are exporting PDF's as you indicate. I see the same thing. The boxes are all the size of the original InDesign document. The PDF art box should be predicated by the margins in InDesign. When we had CS3, this worked great. Now, it seems that there is a disconnect between the two Adobe products honoring the page box size. I have contacted the Adobe techs via chat, and they had no clue what I was referring to. I find it mystifying that Acrobat can not interpret the art box set in InDesign as margins. -
Restore PDF presets in InDesign CS6
While using InDesign CS6, I went to export a pdf and found the presets were gone, same for Illustrator CS6.
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Thanks.https://www.hightail.com/download/bXBad0VCZ1B6NE9FTmNUQw should have most of them.
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Animation in Indesign CS6 export as a HTML for widget in iBA?
Hi together,
For me it`s the first question. I would like to animate pictures in iBooks Author. So I know about the tool hype. But I would like to use Indesign CS6 to create Animation files. I create a simple animation in CS6, export as a swf-file. Now I receive example.swf and example.html. Create a new folder with Default.png, Info.plist and example.html. The .swf file is in a folder named SWF. Next I create the folder a .wdgt. Import in iBooks I read the main html-file is missing.
Is my way possible: CS6 animation as a widget in iBooks Author? Or is it better to use other tools in the world of Apple like hype for example?
Thanke and best regards
BorisI'm quoting another post by Gadgetgurl42 here on a similar question...
"iOS doesn't support swf as this is the exported verison of a Flash file. Putting the swf file into a widget won't change that fact.
As sb0117 mentions, your best bet is to look at HTML5 animation."
I wouldn't use Hype to create your assets as it's really quite limited in that respect, but create the assets in Photoshop and import into HYPE to create animation.
I'd also do a couple of test files to check how the resulting animations look, full-screen on the iPad.
Alternatively, if you're more familiar with Pages, etc, you could use Keynote as the learning curve might be easier.
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