Integration scenarios from scratch: idocs or enterprise service

Hello,
We are starting a SAP PI implementation for a new SAP ECC 6.0 system. The implementation is from scratch, so we don't have to consider any historical issues or decisions. One of the first business processes to be integrated with business partners is the Procure-to-Pay process. The old way of implementing this B2B scenario was with idocs (e.g. ORDERS05 and INVOIC03), but nowadays the enterprise service bundles also contain services for this scenario. Should I choose idocs or enterprise services as a technique to get the information send to SAP PI or send the information to SAP ECC? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both techniques? Does anyone have experience with the implementation of the enterprise services for Procure-to-Pay?
Thanks for your response!
Kind Regards,
Mark

Similar Messages

Integration scenarios from scratch -- idocs or enterprise service bundles

Hello,
We are starting a SAP PI implementation for a new SAP ECC 6.0 system. The implementation is from scratch, so we don't have to consider any historical issues or decisions. One of the first business processes to be integrated with business partners is the Procure-to-Pay process. The old way of implementing this B2B scenario was with idocs (e.g. ORDERS05 and INVOIC03), but nowadays the enterprise service bundles also contain services for this scenario. Should I choose idocs or enterprise services as a technique to get the information send to SAP PI or send the information to SAP ECC? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both techniques? Does anyone have experience with the implementation of the enterprise services for Procure-to-Pay?
Thanks for your response!
Kind Regards,
Mark

Hi Mark,
here are my 2 cents to your very interesting disussion.
The IDOC was designed to customize EDI data distributions between SAP Systems via messagetypes and transaktioncodes (Vorgangscodes) in the partnerdetermination which itself is mapped (the "Vorgangscode") to functional modules to do "something". The complete customizing of IDOC distribution might sometimes seems to be complex (and we both know it is more than that but it is FULL CUSTOMIZABLE from a consulting point of view.
The Enterprise Service (my personal view multiplied with the last TechEds and RampUp Delta courses) have another focus. An Enterprise Service is (mostly) some entity which is consumable from the outside world such that they are implemented with Request-Response patterns. When you only want to distribute information why will one use something like Request Response Patterns? One could argue to get back any response, any confirmation or something else....but this is also possible with IDOCs and their acks.
Another argument against to use an ES for P2P outbound scenario is, if yet not seen any ES which is triggert while create a purchase order in its related transaction. Is the BADI for such Transaction triggering the ES while the save event has been processed? If you could find out this fact and if the BADI (or some new kind of user exit for transactions) is implemented and fully supported from SAP I would choose the ES in the P2P processs. Otherwise why using the ES instead of the IDOC when using a PI as Middleware which is converting the source message type (ES or IDOC) into its proparitary legacy system format. Please let me know when you found such userexit/BADI for ES.
Please don't missunderstand my point of view, I would really throw away these IDOCS and using a couple of ES instead but what is the fully supported STANDARD from a customizable and manageable point of view. When you are familiar with proxy technology you know how easy to implement, monitor and manageble theses technology is - BUT - you always have to code some (maybe not release independent) proxy method and you maybe have to invest some knowledge for error handling, rollbacks or additional commit works - all of these stuff will be handled (mostly ) by the SAP standard delivered functions.
Last but not least - if there is any standard out there to trigger an ES from a transaction without coding I would rather use the ES instead of the IDOC. If there is no such standard I would discuss the functionality with the customer (if to complex implement an inbound or outbound proxy=ES) or extend the IDOC or use a BAPI (and extend the BAPI if needed) - mostly the proxy will the be the easiest choice if the needed field count is not to much (<30).
So long, let me know about your findings and your decision.
Regards,
Dries

Idocs or enterprise services?

Hello all,
We are starting a SAP PI implementation for a new SAP ECC 6.0 system. The implementation is from scratch, so we don't have to consider any historical issues or decisions. One of the first business processes to be integrated with business partners is the Procure-to-Pay process. The old way of implementing this B2B scenario was with idocs (e.g. ORDERS05 and INVOIC03), but nowadays the enterprise service bundles also contain services for this scenario. Should I choose idocs or enterprise services as a technique to get the information send to SAP PI or send the information to SAP ECC? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both techniques? Does anyone have experience with the implementation of the enterprise services for Procure-to-Pay?
Thanks for your response!
Kind Regards,
Mark

This should be more of strategical decision rather than a technical decision. If your entire organization actually desires to adopt the SOA backbone, then it should start with servicizing the scenarios and in that case, it would be good to choose the Enterprise Bundles.
However, if there is no such plan in near future, and all your existing business processes follows the earlier techniques only, then it would be better to go for idocs to have a standard configuration throughout the landscape.
Technically, it would be easire for you to implement Idoc related scenario as per the availability of resources and SAP support availabale. SOA implementation being relatively new in market, would be a bit difficult to implement however, managing it in future would anytime be better than any other technical implementations like with Idocs.
Regards,
Prateek

Transfer Integration Scenario from Integration Repository

Hello,
I am in the process of setting up a 2004s PI system. I have gone thru the PI template installer in the NWA, applied note 939592 due to a central SLD and I am not stepping through the readiness check from note 817920. I am using version 3 of the check. I am running into an error at step 2.7. This is the step to test the connectivity between the Integration Directory and the Integration Repository. When I press the F4-Help for the Field name, the search results returns "No objects found!". I checked all the connections in the exchange profile and they all seem to be set properly. I then went to menu Tools -> Configuration Wizard. I received a popup stating "Cannot connect to Repository". The details are the following:
#22 11:32:10 [AWT-EventQueue-0] ERROR com.sap.aii.utilxi.swing.toolkit.ExceptionDialog: Throwable
Thrown:
MESSAGE ID: com.sap.aii.utilxi.misc.api.BaseRuntimeException
com.sap.aii.utilxi.misc.api.BaseRuntimeException: Cannot connect to Repository
     at com.sap.aii.ibdir.gui.scenario.wizard.core.WizardContext.checkRepository(WizardContext.java:65)
     at com.sap.aii.ibdir.gui.scenario.wizard.core.WizardContext.init(WizardContext.java:75)
     at com.sap.aii.ibdir.gui.scenario.wizard.core.WizardContext.setWizard(WizardContext.java:260)
     at com.sap.aii.ibdir.gui.scenario.wizard.ConfigurationWizardCommand.execute(ConfigurationWizardCommand.java:57)
     at com.sap.aii.utilxi.swing.framework.ExecutionContext.execute(ExecutionContext.java:196)
     at com.sap.aii.utilxi.swing.framework.ExecutionContext.executeSafe(ExecutionContext.java:134)
     at com.sap.aii.utilxi.swing.framework.CommandAction.actionPerformed(CommandAction.java:69)
     at javax.swing.AbstractButton.fireActionPerformed(Unknown Source)
     at javax.swing.AbstractButton$ForwardActionEvents.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
     at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.fireActionPerformed(Unknown Source)
     at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.setPressed(Unknown Source)
I did see another message in the forum (Re: Integration scenarios from Integration Rep) that was very similar but the solution provided in there did not work for me.
Does anyone have any advice?
Thanks.
Regards,
Scott

Yes, I checked everything under the "Connections" section to make sure port, host name, user and passwords were correct. From what I can see, it is all correct. I also checked under the IntegrationBuilder and IntegrationServer sections to make sure the port, host, user and passwords are correct. From what I could see, it was all correct.
Thanks.
Regards,
Scott

Integration scenarios from Integration Rep

Hi
I try to import integration scenarios from Integration respository to Inetgration directory. But when I click on Tools --transfer scenarios from Irep, and then click on the question mark, there are no scenarios showing up.The Table is empty.
Can any one help??
Thanks
Subbu

Hi,
Check whether your Integration scenario is activated properly or not....?once you activate it...you should be able to see the your integration scenario in the ID.
Tools--->Transfer Integration scenario from Integration repository.Go for help button....and wait for a while...u can able to see all the objects of IR and filter according to ur namespace where u have developed ur integration scenario.
Cheers,
Prasanthi.

IDocs or Enterprise Services in message exchange between systems

I am trying to get some qualitative and quantitative answers to the comparison of Enterprise Services or IDocs as a choice of interface technology when exchanging messages via PI with external systems.
The external systems are probably going to have their own message format, so this would concern the nature of the interfaces of the ERP system interfaces to the PI system.
I have seen one other posting in this forum related to this, but no definitive answer.
Does anybody have any system performance comparisons using the two technologies, such as message throughput / hour? Not easy to compare I know.
Does anybody have an opinion as to the suitability of Enterprise Services for such a task? Is the technology stable enough to be trusted yet?
When comparing status messages of IDocs, do the Enterprise Services have a similar way of easuly seeing the delivery status of the message using the Enterprise Service?
Would anybody or has anybody actually been brave enough to use Enterprise Services in this way yet?
Are Enterprise Services appropriate for mass messaging?
All answers very much appreciated!
Kind Regards,
Tony.

Hi Michal,
Thanks for the reply. I try to respond to your questions precisely:
if you want to compare IDocs to services then I assume
we're talking about async services right?
(and most services - just like bapis - are sync messages)
so you compare two different things
Yes, I know. What if the message scenario was asynchronous, and you chose not to handle the response message of the Enterprise Service? You could still do that, right? Then the problem becomes how do you trace the status of the Enterprise Service transaction.
IDocs have the advantage of a status message, and a good message monitoring system, but I am not sure if the visibility of errors seen with Enterprise Services if treated asynchronously would be as obvious. My knowledge of the runtime of the Enterprise Services is currently a bit limited.
The whole reason for me asking about the use of Enterprise Services is that there are so many now that could be used for message exchange, if they were suitable for the task.
Also, what about creating Asynchronous/Synchronous bridges in PI to handle the response message? Then the response is always traceable, correct? Even if the customer doesn't want the response message, the content could always be found in the PI message monitor.
Additionally, there is a transaction in ERP that wraps a BAPI into an IDoc (don't have a system in front of me at the moment and cannot recall the transaction, maybe OM69 or something similar). Now, that is taking a synchronous 'service' (the BAPI), and converting it into an asynchronous IDoc. So if this is such a bad idea, why do SAP provide the transaction? Therefore, by extension, wouldn't it be possible to do the same thing for Enterprise Services, at least from a philosophical point of view? I mean, why would SAP imply you could do this for one kind of synchronous service (the BAPIs) but not others (the Enterprise Services)?
if you're talking about migrations etc I don't believe services
will be used with LSMW but BAPIs are on the other hand
No, I was talking about high volume message scenarios, sorry for the ambiguity. I guess if the performance of Enterprise Services is comparible to that of well written BAPIs, the answer is 'yes', correct?
Kind Regards,
Tony.

After upgrade from SP2010 Foundation to Enterprise, services/features are missing

Hi
I recently upgraded the SharePoint 2010 Foundation, that was installed with TFS 2012, to Enterprise. The upgrade went through. The Products and Configuration wizard ran through to 100% without errors, however there are no Enterprise services available
on the Services on server page.
The main ones that I'm missing (that I really wanted to use) are:
Secure Store
Managed Metadata
Web analytics
SharePoint Server Search
Excel Services
These ones are there (these are non foundation as far as I'm aware)
PerformancePoint services
User Profile and User Profiles Sync
Business Data Connectivity
Also the service applications for the missing services are also missing, where as the services applications for the present services are available to be provisioned.
I've tried re-running the following commands:
Psconfig -cmd helpcollections
Psconfig -cmd services -install
Psconfig -cmd installfeatures
Psconfig -cmd applicationcontent -install
I've also run that Enable upgraded features option in Central Admin that goes through the web apps/Site collections and sites and enables all the enterprise features. That did nothing.
Any ideas?

Run:
Install-SPService
That will install all services on the farm.
Trevor Seward
Follow or contact me at...
&nbsp&nbsp
This post is my own opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion or view of Microsoft, its employees, or other MVPs.

Doubt in transfering integration scenario from IR

Hi guys,
I'm trying to transfer my IS from IR. I have created communication channel template in IR. I plan to follow the configuration wizard in ID. I have assigned business systems in the objects tab. I want to create my communication channel based on my communication channel template from IR. Can anyone please tell me, how is this achievable from the configuration wizard???
Thanks
Varun

Hi Varun,
Check my posting for File to IDOC scenario on wiki
https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/wiki?path=/display/xi/fileToIDOC&
it's having all the ans. for your questions with screen shot.
check these points as well
1. Assign your Communication channel template in IS
2. Even U can create the Business System through Wizard without creating under object Tab.
3. CC from CCT is defined in the above link
else u can create CC from CCT by clicking in the menu for CC and choose Import CCT.
Sachin
Message was edited by:
Sachin Dhingra

E2Open interfaces built using enterprise services

We need to build purchase orders related interfaces with E2Open and discussing on using IDOC vs ESOA services that were provided by SAP with Ehp4. We need to extend these services to get our custom data and using IDOCs would save time. There is web methods/software AG server (middleware) that will translate SAP structure into OAG structures.
Any suggestions/pros & cons on IDOC vs ESOA?

Hi Rajani,
My personal opinion:
I think that you need to think more long term, using IDOCs would save you time now but significantly reduces your flexibility. You should also factor into consideration business goals & strategy (where the company is headed towards).
If you have an ESR (Enterprise Service Repository) in your landscape (it comes shipped with SAP Netweaver CE or SAP PI), there's nothing stopping you from extending the standard SAP Enterprise Services to cater for your custom data. If you don't, an option would be to create custom Abap programs that wrap the enterprise service functionality & cater for your custom data. You could then web service enable those custom programs.
I'm personally not a big fan of IDOCs because I think that they are too cumbersome to use but they also work well. You need to ask yourself, some questions like:
- What if a business process changes, what would the impact be if you choose IDOCs over enterprise services?
- What if you at some stage need to orchestrate provisioning interfaces to cater for changing business / market / regulatory conditions?
- How much is SAP investing in Enterprise Services vs IDOCs?
- How agile is the approach of using IDOCs vs Enterprise Services?
- Does using IDOCs give you an egde over competitors & if there is a business opportunity that needs to be capitalized on, how quickly can you adapt the IDOC scenarios to take advantage of it?
- What about skill levels (developers etc.) for IDOCs & Enterprise services?
- Budget constraints?
These are just some questions...
On the whole, I think that Enterprise Services would work better but it depends on your specific circumstances & SAP is investing significantly more on Enterprise Servies than IDOCs so you would get that added benefit.
Regards, Trevor

Multiple component view in integration scenario

Hi
I have <b>multiple component views</b> defined in my integration scenario.
When i try to configure these component view in Integration directory in integration scenarion configurator, if I select the component view i want to apply then the systems give a message " All configuration settings made in the current component view will be lost".
This means that if i have configured the first component view and then try to configure the second component view then setting of first view get lost.
i want to have all the configure all the component views in the integration scenario.
Please provide some pointers for the issue.
Thanks in advance
Regards,
Amit Deshpande

Amit,
When you have multiple component views in the Integration scenario, you would ideally want to create separate configuration scenarios for each component view.
So for eg. if you have four component views, 4 different configuration scenarios can be created using the integration scenario configurator. The only thing is that you would have to repeat the integration scenario configurator steps[Tools->Transfer Integration Scenario from Integration Repository] 4 times, once for each component view. If you notice, you can change the name of the configuration scenario each time you start afresh.
The message is a warning that if you go back during the integration scenario configuration process[the first step is the selection of the component view for which you want the configuration scenario] and change the component view then all the changes made thus far would be lost.
For e.g if you are in step 3[Assign Services, I think] and then go back and change the component view, all the changes made for the original component view selected would be lost.
Hope this helps.
-Anand

SRM to MDM Scenario -- Unable to Edit the Integration Scenario

Hi Experts,
I'm doing a scenario in XI/PI from SRM to MDM.
I had downloaded all the related content from service market place and also established SLD connections as well.
When I'm trying to import the Integration Scenario from Integration Repository to Integration Directory I'm getting the follwing error.
Software component version with GUID 77891250-7da4-11d8-b240-e6890a114c15
does not exist (SWC_NOT_EXIST)
I'm unable to edit the integration scenario in IR even with PISUPER credentials which have all the access.
I'm also unable to edit any of the other objects as well (e.g.,Message Interface,Interface Mapping etc.,)
PFB the link where I pasted the error snapshot I'm getting when I'm trying to open the Integration Scenario in IR.
[http://picasaweb.google.co.in/prajwal24/MyScenario#5492932473682114498]
Can anyone please help me out on what can be done to edit the Integartion Scenario.
Thanks and Regards,
Pruthvi

Thanks kaushik and Salvi for your valuable inputs.
I have created a copy and now able to edit the Integration Scenario.
But again a new problem came up.
Now after editing the predefined scenario which has only SRM 5.0 and SRM 7.0
I need to add SRM 7.0 application component here in this Integration scenario and this was done successfully.
Now i need to add one send action and this send action is present in the SWC SRM SERVER IC 7.0.
I had downloaded the SRM SERVER IC 7.0 content already and I'm able to see in Integration Repository also.
But this SWC is not present in the application component SAP SRM (WITH SAP EBP) 7.0.
Please let me know what to do now inorder to add this send action in that application component.
Regards,
Pruthvi

Regd. use of enterprise services : Best approach

Hi Experts,
I have configured a scenario using standard enterprise services,used soamanager of ABAP and tested the services,it works perfectly.
But the issue came with terms of security ,it seems we cannot expose our sap system as url for the services.
need to use PI to connect to the third party...I need suggestions on following
1. Can we connect ABAP of PI to ABAP of SAP ,with some configuration , i dont want to create any additional
structures is PI apart from the one which i imported.
2.If i set up a soap to proxy(ABAP) then i need to duplicate the structure for source and use the standard ES
service at proxy receiver, but i want to avoid duplication as it is cumbersome to do for all services.
3.If i create communication /service user i need to give access for some of sap tables to support the service functionalities.
what is the best approach for exposing services from PI using standard enterprise service.
Any pointer will be appreciated.
Regards,
Srinivas
Edited by: Srinivas on Jul 7, 2010 7:29 PM

Hi
Following is answer of your question:
>(1)How can I search relevant Enterprise services in PI for the SAP R/3 BAPI.
There is no way to look for enterprise service for BAPI, ES are harmonized services based on GDT whereas BAPI is more SAP oriented in datatype definitions, only way is to find out is look into code as many ES are calling BAPI internally. Best way to identify correct ES is business use (like Purchase Order Creation etc)
>(2)If relevant ES is available then what are the steps to be performed?
It depends how you want to use this ES, you can call this ES from outside world (read thirdparty tools, application) and these services can be used as ready-to-use building block for new applications. You must know URL of wsdl and security setting (user/password) to use it with any application. You can call it from ABAP, .Net, Java applications. You can test ES with any SOAP testing tool like WSNavigator or SOAP UI.
>(3)If relevant ES is not availabe then what are the steps to be performed?
You have few options if ES is not available, design of your own by following proper governance model (i.e. PIC process) or you can live with existing BAPI, RFC and convert them into Web Service using webservice wizard available in SE80 and SE37.
Regards,
Gourav

Creating Configration Scenario: Transfering Intergration Scenario from IR

Hi ALL
I was in the process of Creating Configruation Scenario by using the Option of transfer Integration Process from IR.
However, I hit a roadblock at the following step:
1. Assign Service: The application component in my intergation scenario needs to be assigned to a business service and I am unable to assign it to bussines service(without a party); as it only lists and allows Business Systems to be selected.
Please, advive how I can assign a business service to my application component of Integration Scenario.
Thank you,
Ritu

Hi Ritu,
We can assign Business Systems only, because they reside in SLD.
Business Service is scenario specific. You need to recreate it new environment e.g. dev,quality,prodn. After business service creation, you create communication channel under it.
So if you want you use the Business Service then create the configuration scenario without using Integration Scenario.
You can use a Business Service if you have Party Communication. Define party and add Business service to it and you can use it while transferring integration scenario from IR.Help Links..
Integration Scenario
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/ae/fb72dc1d0fbf4391fba23b7e8a0d55/frameset.htm
http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/weblogs;jsessionid=(J2EE3414700)ID0395154950DB00487743182702389990End?blog=/pub/wlg/3157
Regards,
Srinivas

Enterprise Services and Persistence

Hi All,
One of the useful things about IDocs is that their processing involves 2 steps: 1) persisting the IDoc to a database 2) processing the document. Persisting IDocs is very useful since it allows you to edit and resend them.
I would like to know if SAP asynchronous Enterprise Services can/do provide persistence as well. Knowing this would help us decide between using IDocs or Enterprise Services in future developments.
Your help is very much appreciated.
Cheers
Gerard

Dear Gerard
SAP's asynchronous Enterprise Services uses proxy technology which provides persistence in the local integration engine. It is similar to IDocs, whereby the message data is persisted prior to processing by the application logic.
Additionally, SAP-delivered Enterprise Services uses Forward Error Handling (FEH) framework to enable error handling capabilities like editing and resending. Together with Error Conflict Handler (ECH) and Post-Processing Office (PPO), this enables capabilities similar to IDoc error handling.
For more info on FEH/ECH/PPO, you can check the below wiki and blog post
Error and Conflict Handler (ECH) - ABAP Connectivity - SCN Wiki
Michal's Tips: SXMB_MONI vs FEH/ECH vs AIF
I've also blogged about development of custom asynchronous proxies utilizing FEH/ECH/PPO. You can check the blog below for an example of how persistence in the integration engine is, as well as the editing and reprocessing features.
Custom proxy framework with FEH/ECH
Rgds
Eng Swee

Downward and Upward integration scenarios

Hi,
Can anybody explain some upward and downward scenarios from scratch how to approach.
Like i am looking at these
Downward ( ERP to SFA systems ) :planned Orders,Bills of Material
Upward (from SFA Systems to SAP ERP )
- Upload Inspection results recording
Please explain how idocs,bapi(standard) ,bls are used to integrate.
Thanks,
Vansi

That's a consulting question...we charge to answer these

Integration scenarios from scratch: idocs or enterprise service

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