IPhoto color space

What color space does iPhoto use to import digital photos from a digital camera, if the camera does not embed its own profiles? I read that iPhoto uses Colorsync default settings, but even though I set the RGB space to Adobe RGB1998, the photos seem to be embedded with sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile when opened in Photoshop CS. There are no preferences settings in iPhoto for choice of color space for importing.
Any help is appreciated.

Joe:
Welcome to the Apple Discussions. I'll try to answer those that I can.
Linescreen - not familiar with that term but read a while ago that 150 lpi printers were used. Don't know if that's related or not. Also there seems to be a difference (for large book at least) between those printed at the West coast site and those from the East coast site. The west coast books were reported better.
Print resolution - large books are printed at 150 dpi. However, you can change the dpi resolution of the pdf file that gets created for uploading and printing as follows:
Method to increase the print resolution for books:
1 - download and run Pref Setter.
2 - open the iPhoto preference file from within Pref Setter.
3 - locate the Keys titled BookTargetMediumImageDPI, BookTargetSmallImageDPI and BookTargetImageDPI.
4 - change their current values to 300.
5 - save and quit Pref Setter.
Colorspace - I've used sRGB but don't know if that's the optimal one. My results have been OK in my mind.
Files accepted - all those you've listed are acceptable. Tiff file shouldn't have alpha layers as iPhoto doesn't play well with them.
Dot gain - don't know what that is.
For sharpening of those I've sharpened I used Photoshop's Unsharp Mask filter.

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IPhoto - is it using two different color spaces?

I know I should have a better handle on this whole question by now, but am still confused by the 1.8 vs. 2.2 Gamma issue.
On the recent advice of an Apple PhotoServices tech, I've just changed my main display's Gamma from the default 1.8 to the darker 2.2 -- hoping to maximize consistency between what I see onscreen and what I'll receive in my printed Calendar order. (Everything else is still based on the default "Cinema HD" profile.)
Using one particular JPEG image as a test, I'm seeing something curious:
In Aperture, the image's thumb and its full-screen version look basically the same. But in iPhoto, that same image looks quite different depending on whether I'm viewing it as a thumb (or as an image placed in a Calendar theme), vs. when I double-click that image and see it in iPhoto's Editor window.
When I see it in iPhoto's editing mode, it suddenly looks noticeably lighter -- as if I'd switched my display back to the old 1.8 Gamma.
Can anyone enlighten me here (pardon the pun)? Why does iPhoto's editor window seem to display an image differently than other programs, or even than elsewhere in iPhoto itself? And why am I only seeing this discrepancy after setting my display to the 2.2 Gamma?
John Bertram
Toronto

Okay --
The plot thickens. I followed your suggestion, Terence, and did some tests. Here are the interesting (if confusing) results:
When I open anything from within the iPhotoLibrary folder using Preview, Preview gives the Color Profile info as follows:
Color Model: RGB
ColorSync Profile: Generic RGB Profile
This seems to apply to anything from within the iPhotoLibrary package, whether we’re talking images from the Originals folder, from the Modified folder, or thumbs from the Data folder. And they all (when viewed in Preview) look the same, and they all look “correct” in terms of general contrast.
BUT...
When I do a Finder “Get Info” on those same files, suddenly there are differences.
1) from the Modified folder:
Most images from the Modified folder now say (in Get Info’s “More Info” pane):
Color space: RGB
Profile name: Adobe RGB (1998)*
* (A few give the Profile name as “sRGB IEC61966-2.1”, and the one that got saved as a .psd file says “Camera Sync Profile”. The strange thing is I can’t seem to find any pattern between the images which were modified using my “external editor” -- Photoshop Elements -- vs. the ones which were edited using only iPhoto’s adjustment tools. The bulk of them all say “Adobe RGB (1998)” as the Profile Name.)
Note that these are the same images which, when opened in Preview, ALL claim the “Generic RGB Profile” -- and all look correct under those circumstances.
2) from the Data folder:
Meantime, ALL the thumbnail images which iPhoto has created for its Data folder, when “Get Info’d” in the Finder, all state their Profile name as “sRGB IEC61966-2.1”.
Open the same thumb image in Preview, and it’s back to “Generic RGB Profile” (as well as back to looking correct and not too dark).
3) from the Originals folder:
Finally, images from iPhoto’s Originals folder give no color profile data whatsoever in the “More info” pane of the Finder’s Get Info window. So is this the same as having the “Generic RGB Profile”?
In any case, here are three different folders (Originals, Modified, and Data), and iPhoto appears to be using a different color profile for the images contained in each one -- and in the case of the Modified folder, several different profiles.
Yet all of these images, when opened in Preview, appear to use the “Generic RGB Profile” -- and all appear as they should in terms of Gamma/contrast on screen -- while when viewed within iPhoto the same image will look quite different depending on whether it’s being seen in iPhoto’s regular window (as a thumb or as part of a Calendar layout, for instance -- all too dark) or in iPhoto’s editing window, in which case it suddenly looks fine.
The other mystery is why this discrepancy between iPhoto’s regular viewer and its editing window wasn’t apparent when my display was set to the default 1.8 Gamma; it’s only become an issue under the new (AppleSupport-recommended) 2.2 setting.
= = = = = == = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
My brain officially hurts now. (I guess this is just more evidence that Computers and the Internet will all be very nice if they can finally just get them working.)
Any help in interpreting this data will, as always, be much appreciated.
Thanks,
John Bertram
Toronto

What size, resolution, color space and bit do I use for a book?

What size, resolution, and color space do I use for a iPhoto book?

At least 150 DPI - actually pixel requirements depend on the print image size (pring image size * 150 will give you the minimum pixel size you need) - size is determined by the book size and theme and page layout you select - color space should be sRGB - minimal editing and using iPhoto for editing produces the best results - for more information see this article
If a photo is the wrong ratio and you can not crop to work in most themes you can right click on the photo and fit to frame
LN

Color space/profile name

I have some pictures that don't show a thumbnail in iPhoto. The info dialog for them says the Color Space is "Gray" and the Profile name is "Gr?skala - gamma 2,2". If I double-click on of these the enlarged image seems somewhat faded. The picture looks fine if I just view it directly in Preview, or ColorSync Utility. It seems most pictures have a Color Space of RGB, how to I change the Color Space of these files to RGB?

Justin:
Download the Automator application "Embed sRGB Profile" from Toad's Cellar and unzip it. Then locate the original files for those problem images and drop them on it. Next launch iPhoto with the Command+Option keys depressed and follow the instructions to rebuild the library and select the first three options. This should get those images compatible with iPhoto.
Do you Twango?
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

Color Space for uploading

I shoot Camera Raw, in Adobe 1998 RGB color space, then upload to iPhoto 08 and make some adjustments via editing in iPhoto. If I then send the JPEG photos to email or to Phanfare.com photo sharing site, should I be converting to sRGB color space first? Or, does iPhoto convert the color space?

For printing using the Apple print service you should use sRGB - if you are happy with the display colors then no need to change the profile for e-mail and displaying only
LN

Safari and Preview have color space recognition bugs

I found that both Safari and Preview have problems when viewing photos taken by a Canon DC. By default, the Canon cameras use sRGB for their digital still images. But Preview cannot recognize it and would report "ColorSync profile" as "-" in "Tools/Get Info". I guess that Generic RGB profile is applied in such a condition. If the file is opened by iPhoto or Photoshop, the color space information is recognized correctly. And if sRGB profile is manually assigned to the image using ColorSync Utility, Preview/Safari will give the same vivid color representation as iPhoto/PS do.
The image below can be used to do the experiment.
http://dpreview-img.fotki.com/gallery/canoneos5dsamples/originals/img9742.jpg
Mac OS X (10.4.10)

See
http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/safari3/index.html
http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/safari/topic2922.html and http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/macosx10_4tiger/topic3051.html#16may2007
Also, search MIT for color. There's been a lot of traffic about profile calibration the past few weeks.

How to select color space for PDF export in Aperture 3

If you're exporting a book layout as a PDF for printing by a third-party album company, you may need to specify sRGB as the color space for images in the PDF. That's OK if your book is composed of JPEGs that are already in the sRGB color space. But, if your images are RAW, Aperture will export them into PDF using the Adobe RGB color space by default. Sending aRGB images to an sRGB printer will result in flat, unsaturated colors, as I learned the hard way. Apple tech support was unable to tell me how to handle this, but I stumbled on the answer myself. Select the book in the Library pane. Select File > Print Book. In the resulting printer dialogue window, pull down the Color Profile menu (default: No Profile Selected) and select sRGB or whatever target color space you desire. Then, click the PDF button and select Save as PDF. Presto! Your PDF images will now be in the appropriate color space.

Hi again, here some updates.
the issue is still there.
From Aperture, I tried to export to PDF the single images, and they look good (no posterization).
Furthermore, I created a photo book from iPhoto with the same pictures, and exported it to PDF. It also looks fine.
Also opening/exporting to PDF from photoshop does not show any problem.
The problem occurs only if I try to print the book from Aperture (option "print book" -> "save as PDF"), or if I make a book preview before placing the order (I suppose it's the same action).
Is anybody aware of what exactly Aperture does in these particular cases?
Please consider that:
1. my monitor (iMac 24") is hardware calibrated
2. the source pictures are in RAW (so no color profile on them) and (just a couple) in TIFF (16bit, Adobe RGB). I also tried reimporting in the album jpg converted versions, with no better results.
3. OS and Aperture are updated to the latest versions.
This problem is blocking me from placing the order...
Someone could give some help here?
thanks in advance
marco

Recommended color space to use with my D50

Hi -
I'm pretty new to Mac and I'm now finding time to work with digital photos taken with my Nikon D50. Having read up on some things, I realize Mac OS and iPhoto can match the color space of the imported photos as an attempt to keep colors consistent between camera, computer, and eventually the printer. I was wondering what is a recommended color space to use when shooting. Nikon offers 3 choices - IIIa ( sRGB with a boost to green ), Ia ( sRGB ) and II ( Adobe RGB ). I believe their IIIa is my default and I have not changed it. I've noticed, however, that when I took a picture of my daughter in her prom dress outdoors in natural sunlight, it rendered it's magenta color as more red than magenta. Would Adobe RGB be better ? I read some articles here on color and I believe somewhere in the article it said the Adobe RGB color space has a broader color gamut than sRGB.
Any opinions ?
Thanks in advance,
Bill

I don't have a Nikon (I use Sony's) and I find my cameras output matches up well with sRGB. iPhoto seems to use sRGB as well. Adobe RGB comes up very saturated, too saturated for my taste. When I use Adobe. I set Adobe to sRGB as well.
Magenta is a tough color and many fabrics reflect infrared and/or uv band and some camera sensors can pick that up. You may find the same effect with flowers.
Gamut depends more on where you plan to output the images. A broader gamut is not always the best thing for displays but may work well for printing. Personally I find sRGB works well for me.

Color Space for iBook Printers and Photo Printers?

Has anyone figured out what the Color Spaces are for the iBook Printers and the Photo printers they use when you order prints through iPhoto? is it sRGB IEC61966 or something else? I want to clean up some shots in Photoshop before sending...
Thanks!

Yes, I set all profiles to the sRGB except the monitor. I calibrated my monitor thru the system preferences as the whites seemed too yellow with the sRGB for my viewing tastes.
I don't do a whole lot of printing. More into creating iDVD projects but I have Photoshop set for sRGB. There are a number of sites on color management which may give you some more insight.
http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc007.html
http://www.gballard.net/psd.html
http://www.gballard.net/psd/honormyembeddedprofile.html
http://www.apple.com/pro/color/

Image Format and Color Space

When I import photo stills into imovie to make a slideshow, does it benefit me if I export the raw photos from Lightroom as 16 bit Pro Photo RGB tiffs and then import those into iPhoto? If I plan to show these on a television, what would be the best color space and format for my images?
Thanks for the help.

Java can read JPEG and GIF images. Startig with JDK 1.3, it can also read PNG images. Java 2D (available in JDK 1.2 or later versions) has the capability to write JPEG images. The JPEG codec is in the com.sun.image.codec.jpeg package.
The Image IO API is available only in JDK 1.4 (currently in beta).
The Image IO framework allows third party vendors to write coder/decoders for any image format. For this purpose, the Image IO API provides the SPI (Service Provider Interface). This framwork allows you to use codecs of your choice. I think JDK 1.4 comes with the JPEG codec, but not GIF.
Java Advanced Imaging (JAI), which is an extension to Java, has coder/decoders for several image formats, including JPEG, GIF, BMP, and TIFF. To use JAI, you need to download it from the Sun's Java site.
According to Sun, because the Image IO API has been developed to replace Java 2D and JAI codecs,they won't be supported in future releases.

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 in Adobe RGB color space?

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 (not export out from LR) in Adobe RGB color space provided that you are using a wide gamut monitor which is capable and hardware calibrated & profiled to show such color space?
If this is possible, what is required to do so in Windows 8 and i7-4770 & HD Graphics 4600 platform or does LR take care of it automatically?
This is very basic question, however, I could not find a clear answer/info from LR documentation, so wish that someone can advice.

Those settings are probably stored in a plist somewhere in ~/Library/Preferences. If you can locate the appropriate file, you should be able to copy it to all the network user folders.

Image in PDF error - Expected end of color space

Hi friends,
I am displaying a PDF file in an webdynpro application. The contents are coming from the output of a RFC. The pdf file contains an image. While I am running the Webdynpro application the image is not coming. An error popup <b>"Expected end of color space"</b> is generated. But the texts of pdf file is coming properly.
Please help.
With regards,
Sekhar

Hi Sekar
We are facing the same issue. Have you managed to resolve this issue ?
Please advise
Regards
Vivek

Asking the Bridge Team: Bridge "working color space" setting when one does not have the Suite?

Common sense tells me there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because
Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser
Therefore, this may turn out to be a purely academic question; but that doesn't keep my curiosity from forcing me to ask it anyway. ;)
Is there a way to set the Bridge
"color settings" when one does not have the suite?
The only Adobe program I keep up to date is Photoshop, so I've never had the suite. My version of Photoshop is 11 (CS4) and I run updated
(not upgraded) versions of Adobe Acrobat 7.x, Illustrator 10.x and InDesign 2.x. Consequently, the Synchronize color settings command is not available to me.
It seems to me that Bridge is behaving like a proper color-managed browser (e.g. Firefox with color management enabled), in that it displays tagged image files correctly and assumes sRGB for untagged image files. This normally works fine.
But what if I wanted Bridge to assume my
Photoshop color working space for untagged images
so that it behaves the same as Photoshop? I'm just curious, as I deal with a minuscule, practically negligible amount of untagged files.
My reason for bringing it up now is that I don't recall this being explicitly mentioned in forum replies when users inquire about color settings in Bridge. A recent post regarding Version Cue in the Photoshop Macintosh forum got me thinking about this. Just wanting to make sure that I'm right in my assumption that
there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser.
Thanks in advance.

Hi Ramón,
Thanks for sharing the outcome of your tests. However, I may have found a bug/exception to Bridge's colour management policy!
It appears that CMYK EPS photoshop files are not colour managed in Adobe Bridge, even if they contain an embedded ICC profile.
I've tried every combination in the EPS 'Save As' dialogue box, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with file encoding. Also, Bridge doesn't rely on the low-res preview that is held within the EPS itself.
My guess is that Bridge is previewing the CMYK EPS with a Bridge-generated RGB image, but it's being displayed as monitor RGB (assigned) rather than colour managed (converted to monitor RGB). For most users the difference will be barely perceptible, but the problem became very noticeable when using Bridge to preview Newsprint CMYK images on a wide-gamut monitor (images that should have appeared muted really leapt off the screen!).
How do I report this to the Colour Police at Adobe?!?

Lightroom's 4 color "spaces"

I’m working on designing an advanced photography course. This course makes use of Lightroom and Photoshop in the photographic workflow.
I’m learning and researching myself as I go along, and I feel I have reached a ceiling on what I can work out from the sources at my disposal thus far.
So I am turning here for help.
I am trying to clarify how tones and colours are affected from the actual scene through to the printed page. This might seem like overkill to some. However, there is a lot of misunderstanding and confusion, not to mention heated discussions amongst photographers about these issues. I’m experimenting with metering and colour / tone targets and my calculations are only meaningful if I understand how tones and colours are affected at every stage of the workflow.
Here’s how I understand it:
There are 4 (sort of) Colour “spaces” in Develop where a real-time dynamic preview of an image is rendered
1.       The “viewing space” (ProPhotoRGB Chromaticity co-ordinates, sRGB gamma)
2.       The “computational space” (ProPhotoRGB chromaticity co-ordinates, linear gamma – “MelissaRGB”)
(Martin Evening’s Lightroom 3 book published by Adobe press - Appendix B, section on color space page 628-632)
Below that, things get a little fuzzy. According to Jeff Schewe (Real World Camera RAW for CS5, page 32) there is a sort of
3.            “Native Camera Space” and of course there is the
4.            RAW data in the file on disk.
So to generate the dynamically rendered preview, the image goes through the four “layers” as follows (from bottom to top). This is almost certainly flawed, but one has to start somewhere when trying to work things out :-)
1. The RAW file is read from disk. Colorimetric interpretation is performed using a camera profile (e.g. Adobe Standard for whatever camera it is you are using). This process puts the image data into “Native camera space” (“Plotted” onto CIE XYZ with D50 white point)
2. In “Native camera space, the scene white balance (as selected by user, guessed by Lightroom or reported by camera) as well as additional camera calibration panel matrix tweaks “informs” the colorimetric conversion into Lightroom’s “computational space” e.g. Melissa RGB. The colorimetric definition of camera RGB primaries and white is re-DEFINED. The demosaicing as well as chromatic aberration corrections are performed in “native camera space”
3. Almost all image processing calculations occur computationally in the “MelissaRGB Lightroom computational space”
4. What is displayed on the screen, however, has an sRGB tone curve applied. This represents the “viewing” space. The histogram is generated from this and the RGB colour percentage readouts are generated from this as well. In addition, some slider controls from user input are weighted back through the tone curve into the computational space below.
Could someone from Adobe kindly help me to clarify the steps? Eric are you reading this? :-)
Thanks in advance

Sandy - Thanks for the link. The spreadsheets you posted on your site is quite helpful.
Jao – I think what you said goes to the heart of what I am trying to achieve here: “Photograph a grey target at the exact same exposure with the exact same lighting but with different cameras and you'll end up with different values in the raw files” Which is why I encourage photographers to experiment with their cameras in order to understand exactly how the camera will respond in the heat of a real shoot. Set up a scene; take a picture, open in Lightroom. What is clipped and why? Use a reflective spot meter. Repeat. Use a hand held incident meter. Repeat. How much can you reliably recover? Are you happy with what your meter considers the mid-point (and what you set your exposure for on the camera) or do you need to compensate? Just how much latitude do you have between what your camera histogram shows as a blown out highlight and what Lightroom shows as a blown out highlight. This relates to tone. I could go on with more examples, but by now, I am (hopefully) making more sense.
I’m merely trying to clarify that which is already public in order to form a coherent mental picture. And by mental picture I do not mean an accurate representation of the minutiae and maths involved. Think of a subway map. It represents a bird’s eye view of a transportation system in a logical fashion, yet it bears almost no resemblance to the cartographical reality of the physical topography. I really don’t care where the tunnels go, how they were dug, how they are maintained or where they twist and turn. What I AM looking for is a logical (not physical) map. This map tells me where the different lines begin and end, and where I can change from one line to the other. The most important quality of the map as a whole is that it provides context. You can tell, at a glance, how different lines interact with each other and even how it links to other entities such as bus stations or public landmarks.
As many have rightfully pointed out, I should not have to care about the maths/secret sauce/internal calculations. And I don’t. In addition, I am a very happy Lightroom user and I am very comfortable using it. I know what a user needs to know to get his picture from A to B. There is no shortage of information on how to accomplish that.
It might help if I illustrate what I am trying to do below:
Please excuse the low resolution, the maximum height allowed for upload is 600 pixels. The picture below goes on the bottom left of the "layer" picture above.
Even though there are certainly many mistakes in my diagram, this is a helpful visualisation. I derived this diagram from publicly available information. As the subway map, this is a logical (not physical) representation that provides context in a visual form. With a little help from people like Eric I am sure I can correct and expand it. The net result is an enhanced understanding of Lightroom and ACR and where it fits into the photographic process, both in terms of tone and colour.
I am not posting the entire chart here since I am not even certain that a 4 “layered” representation is an appropriate logical representation. I posted the spine of the chart with the 4 “layers” and one part that elaborates on the colorimetric interpretation between the two bottom layers. Comments and corrections are welcomed. And I am convinced that this can be accomplished without divulging anything confidential.

Rendering Chroma 4:2:2 with color space 0-255

Hello Everyone.
Just as a warning I'm fairly new to video editing, so I will probably not say this right. I have a screen recording that I used FRAPS to collect, and then I packaged it into an .AVI container w/ a lararith codec , and a 24bit RGB color scheme in video dub. I have then opened and edited that video in Premiere Pro and want to export it. The problem that I'm having is screen recording has a LOT of color between 0-16 and 235-255, so any broadcast color space I use makes the video look awful. I was wondering if anyone knows how I can render out with a 0-255 color space and a decent chroma subsampling (my guess is 4:2:2).
Thank you everyone for your help.

No, you are asking the right question, and I understand your problem. I just can't recreate it.
I just took a really wild Quicktime video I downloaded from Videoblocks.com that isn't anywhere close to being broadcast safe, and I exported it to a Windows Media file.
The first picture is a screenshot from the video. (it is a set of lower thirds in one video - I am just supposed to use one at a time of course.
The second picture is the Reference monitor from frame 12;24
I exported the sequence to a Windows Media file and then imported it, putting it right on top of the other video on the sequence so I could make sure to be on the exact same frame. The third picture is the reference monitor from the WMV file on the sequence. As you can see, there is not much difference. Some, but you have to look closely.
So, my question to you, since I do not use FRAPS, is what are your sequence setting? Did you just drop a clip on the New button to create a new sequence with the exact right settings? And, are you making the mistake of using the renders to help you export?
The problem is that I don't understand your source material. I guess I could download FRAPS from somewhere and give it a try? I am just a bit busy with other things today.

IPhoto color space

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