JSF 1,1 is a mature technology to put systems in production? Somebody has

JSF 1,1 is a mature technology to put systems in production? Somebody has systems developed with JSF 1,1 in production?
Thanks
Pablo Dar�o Ingelhorn
Ingelhorn Sistemas
Toay- La Pampa - Argentina

i have a website up and running. 99% JSF tags (1% JS)
works like a charm.
however, no real load on it yet.
deployment was nothing unusual also.

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JSF 1,1 is a mature technology to put systems in production?

JSF 1,1 is a mature technology to put systems in production? Somebody has systems developed with JSF 1,1 in production?
Thanks
Pablo Dar�o Ingelhorn
Ingelhorn Sistemas
Toay- La Pampa - Argentina

depending on your definition of mature but generaly speaking, in my opinion, yes.
my application has been running in production for several months now.
i would say its a small-mid sized application.
no problems what so ever that i consider major up until now.

Are Web Start and Swing stable and mature technologies?

Hi there
I'm currently looking at using Webstart and Swing as technology of choice to offer more "ap-like" functionality on our company extranets, without needing serious bandwith. (bandwith in our part of the world is veeery expensive)
I'd appreciate some advice:
1) Is the Webstart download still about 6MB as it was at its inception?
Must Webstart be downloaded everytime one upgrades your browser?
2) Is it generally easy to develop using Webstart and Swing for someone with general Java (applet) development experience? (reasonable learning curve)
3) Are there a lot of people using Webstart and Swing - ie has it proven itself to be stable and "development friendly", does it deliver on its promises of enabling one to develop fast client-side Java "apps".
Bottom line, I need to know if it's worth my while to invest in developer resources for Webstart and Swing to get added functionality on our extranets; or should we rather keep using PHP/ASP, SQL , DHTML and be happy with the functionality these technologies bring to our user interfaces.
Any input would be appreciated!

I'll give a summary answer -- I'm not an expert on Swing and Java Web Start, but I've used them both to some extent.
Java as a whole -- mature and stable, but a heavy download. Practically speaking, if your users use Windows, they'll need to download a JRE from Sun rather than go with Microsoft's outdated and never-to-be-updated Java VM.
Swing -- mature, stable. A good way to develop platform-independent rich clients. It's hard to make a real desktop application out of DHTML and JavaScript, but desktop applications are what Swing is all about. They won't look like Windows apps, but they can be a lot more interactive than a webpage.
Java Web Start -- usable but not yet mature. 1.0 has shortcomings (which is typical of 1.0 products) that are being addressed in 1.2, which is part of J2SE 1.4.1. Installation in Windows, in particular, should get easier, with an ActiveX control.
In all cases, you face large downloads (10 MB or so) to install Java Web Start or a JRE, followed by reasonable downloads (10-200k, depending on the application) per Java Web Start application.

Q: is the SOA Suite a mature technology?

A colleaque and I have been playing araound with the SOA suite the last copule of weeks. My colleaue mainly concentrated on the BPEL, while i did the ESB part.
Even though I did some very simple scenarios, it seemd to me that theres a lot of errors/bug. For instance when using native sequencing, you have to manually edit some XML files. Another thing,- I have to deploy my services more than once to make sure it works. Of course this is all new to me - so I'd expected some beginnes difficulties - but never the less - I'm a bit worried about recommending this technology to my manager.
So the question is: does this work or not?
I use the Soa suite 10.1.3.3 on Oracle DB XE.
Kind regards, Henrik

Another reason to wait for 11g if you want Oracle SOA is problems with upgrading existing processes from 10.1.3.3.0. We used 10.1.2 before and upgraded to 10.1.3.3.0 and had to reduce the number of processes from about 150 to ~30 due to problems with converting projects in JDeveloper and partly changed behaviour of BPEL. Old processes often stopped working and required mostly day per process to debug and fix. We simply couldn't do the converting for 150 days.
Its a pitty though that Oracle doesn't plan to support BPEL 2.0 in 11g, as if they were affraid to touch the original code developed by Collaxa. Does anybody know whether 11g will have better support for WS-* features, like WS-Security in outbound messages (arriving from web service), generation of WS-Policy assertions in wsdl?
Other problems that one needs to take into account when considering 10.1.3.3.0 are:
- JDeveloper 11g will probably be incompatible with BPEL 10.1.3.3.0, so you will be stuck with JDeveloper 10.1.3.3.0, since no newer release of 10.1.3 is planned.
- in 10.1.3.3.0 propagation of security context into EJB is not functional. Although EJB invocation is supported from BPEL, methods will always execute under the same credentials which defeats the advantages of EJB. Hopefully Oracle will fix this problem in 11g.
- incompatibility between BPEL 10.1.3.3.0 and Oc4j 10.1.3.3.0 web services when using WS-Security UsernameToken. Oc4j web services with WS-Security cannot be invoked by BPEL without manual editing of oracle web services xml. This editing has to be done every time something is changed in web service since then the xml is overwritten.
- database connection pool used by BPEL is not periodically checked for "select * from dual", so invalid database connections can be passed to BPEL process. This becomes a problem if you need to gradually restart your DB cluster nodes. I have even noticed once that a DB connection was passed to BPEL which did contain uncomitted data from previous process (ending with exception), which resulted in seeing data that didn't exist in database.

Mac OS X Technologies in Operating Systems Categories?

It would be great to have the Mac OS X Technologies Category linked inside the Mac OS X Leopard, Tiger, and Panther and earlier categories. This thread shows a classic example of why people are lost without such a link.
Message was edited by: a brody

Please use the offline installer:
http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/latest/help/install_flash_player_osx.dmg

INVITE: Software Developer Conference (March 24, 25. Bangalore)

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Regards,
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Im not sure if this is the right place to post this, but anyway thanks for the info :)

JSF 1.2 - Roundtrip just to create a simple Go Back link scenario

From what I've read, it seems JSF 1.2 treats everything as HTTP POST. Hence, doing a simple Go Back means one has to do a round trip to the backend database and back. Here's how I've done it:
1. Create a form and populate it with a list of information. For each line of info in the list, I define a h:outputLink that have four f:param directives to pass the parameters I want to a second form. Of course, the name/id of these params have to be unique. Say, if you want to create a second set of h:outputLink for the list, you have to define new unique name/id. Yuck! Why must name/id be unique? After all, they just going to become URL parameters.
2. To create a "Go Back" link on my second form, I define a h:outputLink with the same number of f:params deriving their values from the URL parameters received from the first form. I have tried the h:commandLink/h:commandButton without success - they just resubmitted the second form without redirecting back to the first form.
3. Once the "Go Back" link is clicked, I have to do a roundtrip to the backend database just to "refresh" the first form - and if I have multiple backing beans providing data for this form - this roundtrip can become quite expensive.
What I gather from doing the JSF for the last five weeks:
1. All requests are submitted as HTTP POSTs - this much is obvious. Thus, this will break the ability to do "light" navigation (such as a Go Back link), bookmarking and so forth due to the POST nature of JSF 1.2 or earlier. JSF 2.x might be different though - I may have to check the spec to confirm this. I have heard that one may need to use Facelets and not JSP as the view technology - otherwise certain features of this implementation will not be available.
2. To pass information as parameters means one has to validate URL parameters to prevent URL tampering from third parties.
3. I can use session scope for the form - but this is an "ugly" way of doing it i.e. If I move to a different area of the website and come back to the form, I can still see the previously generated data - until the session expired of course - then the form is reset to it's pre-submit status. I can appreciate the use of session scope in situation where one want to keep certain information active e.g. when a user logged into a forum or a secured session (HTTPS). To use session scope to just navigate between forms (while maintaining the status of the displayed data) is too much of an overkill.
If there are better ways of doing something trivial like a Go Back link or bookmarking then I'm all open ears. If not, I might have to ditch JSF 1.2 and investigate JSF 2.0. Hopefully, this release would be less painful.
Looking forward to JSF experts' comments surrounding this issue. I'm sure I'm not the first to complain about this framework and I won't be the last. Enough rant...
Edited by: icepax on 26/11/2009 11:32
Edited by: icepax on 29/11/2009 05:45

BalusC wrote:
First, outputlinks do not generate POST.Appreciate your reply. I stand corrected with this comment. But reading a few articles, for example: [JSF Discussions and Blogs|http://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/jsf-sucks/], one has to wonder how JSF 1.x stacks up.
>
Second, how would you do it all in plain HTML/JSP/Servlet without JSF? If you tell how you would do it, then we can suggest the JSF way of it (but with the time you should probably already have realized that your concern/rant makes no sense).Sorry, Bauke, I went from Java straight to JSF for the past five weeks but if I have to guess one would use HttpServletRequest or HttpServletResponse in HTML-JSP-Servlet scenario. What I have done with the roundtrip actually works for me albeit I'm hitting the backend twice instead of once (there are pros and cons of doing it this way but I won't go into detail here). However, this still begs the question about doing something trivial like a Go Back link or bookmarking and why it's not so trivial in JSF.
>
At any way, you may find JBoss Seam interesting. It has an extra scope between request and session in: the conversation scope.Thanks. I could try it or move straight to JSF 2.0 or later.
Don't get me wrong, I love JSF. But I won't see its real potential until I move to JSF 2.x or later. Integrated Facelets support is something I'm looking forward to -:)

Faces/JSF vs Forms Application ?

Hi All,
I need to compare Forms based application with Faces/JSF based application, in term of performance.
(The fact of proprietary vs open standard is not the consideration)
Could any body please give comments on the points below :
1) Initial Load, Forms has heavy initial load, can I say that Faces/JSF has much lighter initial Load ?
2) Response Time, Faces/JSF has better response time than Formss ?
3) Bandwidth Requirement, Faces/JSF need less bandwidth than Forms ?
Thank you for your help,
xtanto

Its a pretty difficult question to answer since generally speaking they target different styles of application.
As a general observation - being a "thin" client - JSF will be faster in that there is no initial download like Forms has with the Forms JAR file. Forms will also load e JVM which takes time as well...
Response time is a difficult one as well since you tend, again, to have different expectation with the different UI technologies...
I guess what we really need to do is get to the bottom of why you asking the question; if you are about to make a development decision there may be other factors which weight more heavily.
Regards
Grant Ronald
Product Management

JDev 10.1.2 - JSF 1.1_02 - error hangs entire application

Hi,
I'm building my first JSF application and an issue has arisen during testing which has us all stumped! Whenever an error occurs for a particular user, the entire application then falls over and all other users then see (different) error messages too.
Let me try to describe the scenario in detail.
1. 10 users are using the main page of the application quite happily.
2. Another user logs in and visits a different page in the same application. This page contains a bug.
3. The application serves the error page to this user as an unhandled exception was thrown when processing the request.
4. The other 10 users also get the error page even though they have not visited the buggy page! The application has fallen over and requires the container to be restarted.
Steps 1-3 are obvious, but I don't understand step 4 - why should the application fail to continue serving bug-free pages to all other users? Is this the expected behaviour for JSF applications? (Other platforms I've used don't behave this way.)
I can easily replicate this issue by introducing a typo to a component's EL binding. The initial error message is
javax.servlet.jsp.JspException: Error getting property 'thisisatypo' from bean of type com.mypackage.MyBeanAll other users then see a secondary error message:
java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsExceptionOther applications on the app server are not affected.
Is there a way to configure or recode the application to better handle exceptions so that the application itself doesn't hang and other users can continue to use it? Is it a threading issue? Or is this an issue with the application server, which requires reconfiguration to fix it?
A thread on Sun's JSF forum mentions a similar issue, but no-one has answered it: http://forums.sun.com/thread.jspa?forumID=881&threadID=5049367
My environment:
JSF: v1.1_02 (Sun JSF RI)
IDE: JDeveloper 10.1.2.3.0
Java: 1.4.2_06
App Server: Oracle App Server 10g (OC4J 9.0.4.0.0)
(Upgrading to more recent versions of JSF or application server are not options at the moment - my organisation has already scheduled upgrades sometime within the next 12 months or so, but I cannot bring them forward!)

Hi Frank, thanks for your reply.
I did indeed manually configure JSF for JDev 10.1.2 & Oracle App Server 10g (OC4J 9.0.4), following the instructions provided by Oracle at [http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/howtos/10g/jsf_howto/jsf.html|http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/howtos/10g/jsf_howto/jsf.html]
I have just spent some time porting my application to JDev 10.1.3 & OC4J 10.1.3, as you suggest, and I can confirm that the issue does not appear using this platform.
However, my organisation does not have this version of Oracle App Server in production. As I indicated in my first post, an upgrade from 9.0.4 to a newer version (tbc) should occur sometime in the next 12 months, but we undertook this project on the basis that JSF would work on Oracle App Server 10g (OC4J 9.0.4), as per the "how to" above.
If this is not the correct forum to pursue this issue, where, or with whom, should I?
Many thanks,

Help w/ JSF vs. JavaScript+CSS+DHTML debate

Hello,
I need to quickly obtain some facts to help guide the direction of a new project.
The entrenchment here seems to lean toward JavaScript, CSS, and DHTML to provide client-side validation and presentation enhancements. Personally, I am more receptive to JSF but I am in unfamiliar territory when it comes to web technologies.
I need to know how JSF compares with using JavaScript, CSS, and DHTML. Does JSF alleviate the need for these technologies? I have a lot of information on why JSP Model2 is better on the server-side but I am really needing some data on the client-side presentation aspects (validation, sexy widgets, etc).
Thanks in advance for anything anyone would like to share.

Thanks erikbuchez. So would it be correct to say that
the JSF HTML (or is it HTTP) components are
implemented with JavaScript/CSS/xHTML? In a way, yes. JSF defines a set of Standard User Interface Components, a Standard HTML RenderKit for those components, and a Standard HTML RenderKit Tag Library. The components, RenderKit and tag library are implemented in Java and run on the server, but together they end up generating HTML/CSS/JavaScript interpreted by your Web browser.
As a follow up, I assume one can override/extend the
existing components or create new ones as needed by
extending some appropriate base class?Yes, you can derive from existing components and renderers or create your own (in Java).
If I'm getting the idea here, you use the expression language in
your JSPs and make use of the template library to get the nitty
gritty stream back to the browser?Not sure what you mean here, but if you mean that you write JSP pages using JSF tag libraries and let JSF generate the HTML/CSS/JavaScript back to the client, you are right.
-Erik

JSF in Portal component

Hi Gurus,
I wanted to know, how to use JSF technology in portal components ?
Can somebody provide me one example step by step to use JSF?
Regards
Amit Singh

Hi,
Since this is a myfaces component it may be better to post this question to a site more myfaces centric. We currently use the JSF default components along with Sun's custom components. We haven't researched the myfaces components in depth as of yet.
I found a link on the Apache site that talks about their upload component that may help though...
http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/Setup_For_File_Uploads
Hope this helps - Thanks - Mark

Any tutorials/demos available for using BPEL alongwith Struts or JSF

Hi All
Are there any sample tutorials/demos available for using BPEL alongwith Struts or JSF ?
Thanks
Badri

Not sure if this is of any help, it uses ADF which is basically a JSF page.
http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/viewlets/1013/bpelfromadf_viewlet_swf.html
there is also some tutorials you may be able to use in the following directory
SOA_HOME/bpel/sampels/Tutorials/102.InvokingProcesses
cheers
James

Installing JSF on a Windows box

Hi. I've got a Windows XP Pro system and am using Oracle JDeveloper. Sorry for the stupid question, but how do you install the Sun JSF technology on this system? I did some searches but only found specifications for download and not the actual technology. For example, this page had links to docs -- http://java.sun.com/javaee/javaserverfaces/download.html
I'm doing something wrong; your help is much appreciated. Thanks.

Quted from the link you've posted:
You can get the JavaServer Faces 1.2 reference implementation in one of the following ways:
* Download Java EE 5 SDK.
* Download the open-source Java Platform, Enterprise Edition (Java EE) application server, available through the GlassFish project, available from java.net.
* Download the implementation JAR files separately from javaserverfaces.dev.java.net if you want to use the implementation with other containers.
[link to download page|http://java.sun.com/javaee/downloads/index.jsp]

Splitter in JSF

How to add horizontal splitter in JSF?

Hi,
Check followings
http://technology.amis.nl/blog/5711/the-adf-11g-area-template-for-micro-level-layout-design-patterns
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/developer-tools/adf/uishell-093084.html
http://andrejusb.blogspot.com/2007/05/templating-in-oracle-jdeveloper-11g.html

Broken link : JSF intro

hi
on
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/java/jsf.html
is a link to "Tutorial - Getting Started with JSF" at
http://www.oracle.com/technology/obe/obe1013jdev/jsfJSP/jsfJSP.htm
that results in a 404 page, but should probabely point to
http://www.oracle.com/technology/obe/obe1013jdev/jsfintro/jsfintro.htm
regards
Jan

This has been fixed; thanks...
Cheers, OTN

JSF 1,1 is a mature technology to put systems in production? Somebody has

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