Keeping RAW files

I shoot in nothing but RAW. When I move my RAW file from the flash card to the hard disk I create a folder named RAW. I also create a DNG folder for the future conversion of my RAW files. I have been doing this for years. Originally because I started using DNG files shortly after Adobe created the format and I was not comfortable yet with its stability and viability. I now have duplicated folders using double the space. After many years of doing this, I have multiple terabytes of duplicated file space. I do all my editing in the DNG files.
1. Does anybody else keep duplicated RAW and DNG files, and why
2. Is there and advantage to keeping both RAW and DNG files.
I look forward to your replies

James Palik wrote:
My original reason for converting to DNG is I did not like having to keep two files to preserve my edits, especially since I had an original problem with my XMP files getting corrupted.
Technical background info:
Once upon a time, Lightroom used a slightly different code for creating the xmp info which got written to DNG versus that which was written to a sidecar file:
In the former case, many things were attributes of (xml) elements, in the latter case, those things were individual elements.
In Lr5 (I think it was 5, maybe 4), Adobe optimized xmp handling to use more of the same code in each case (I "know" this based on the data and format becoming essentially equal in each case - it's the only likely conclusion..). For you ultra-curious types: xmp sidecars became more like the embedded xmp in the interest of more compact storage (and maybe other things I'm not aware of).
There is a difference in how they're written to destination file, but in general writing to sidecar is slightly safer than embedding in source file. I suppose it's possible that the code for writing the xmp sidecars had a bug in it, but I have seen very few such complaints, if any, and have never experienced it myself. It's possible that the corrupt xmp sidecar you experienced actually saved you from having a corrupt source file (since hardware and/or code errors which occur when updating embedded xmp can render the source file unreadable, whereas proprietary raw files are never written to and therefore can not be corrupted when xmp is written).
Bottom line: even though this may seem contrary to your personal experience, odds are you are slightly safer from corruption with xmp as sidecar to proprietary raw than embedded in DNG.
Don't get me wrong: I am not anti-DNG (on the contrary, I am pro DNG, even though I don't normally convert my raw files to DNG, yet), and if you prefer not having sidecar files, whether due to practical reasons or superstition (er, I mean "esoteric reasons") - that's fine with me..
As DdeGannes and others have noted, you don't have to use xmp at all to preserve edits (if you are diligent about backing up your catalog), but there is something to be said for having both suspenders and belt when you really want your pants to stay up..
PS - have you considered keeping your proprietary raws in a different location than your DNGs (or otherwise exclude from your more frequent backup procedure), so they are not being repeatedly backed up?
Bonus info: why don't I convert my raws to DNG?:
* I don't like having 2 copies of the same raw file to store and manage (i.e. it avoids the "proliferation problem" you are currently facing..).
* I want my raws to be readable in whatever software I choose, even if not written by Adobe.
* I prefer my raws to stay virginal, and have my xmp in separate files (for a myriad of "more-or-less esoteric" reasons..).
Cheers,
Rob

Similar Messages

Keeping Raw File Settings

To whom it may concern.
I have recently started using Premiere Pro and have found myself in a spot of bother. I have recorded a video in mp4 format which is in the 600mb file size area. After I have finished editing my video I cannot seem to find a correct export setting that keeps the raw files same picture quality and relative file size. Shouldnt there be a function that when you import a video you can keep the raw files exact settings? Any help in the matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

It really comes down to workflow.
Now, the mp4 format you are getting from your camera is NOT raw. It is a highly compressed datastream that contains a lot of information. Raw video footage tends to be extremely large and you need a very fast system to process them. These compressed files allow a wider variety of programs to access the footage.
Now, an important thing to realize is that editing video and playing video are very different processes, and video files that are easily played are not necessarily easily edited. Premiere tries to take some of the workload off of your shoulders, but you still have to be mindful of the fact that these files you are getting from your camera are not necessarily easy for your computer to edit.
That being said, the destination of your footage is very important. Are your movies going to be sent out as video packages for laymen to view on their computer? Then you need a good easily translatable file that is compressed enough that the file sizes will allow for easy distribution and playback. I recommend H.264 with one of our presets - They will cover most needs.
Are these movies going to be held onto for awhile on your computer to be used in another program or even brought back into Premiere for further use? If that is the case, then you can try to match the settings of your original footage as much as possible - using H.264. It's not going to match exactly, as the files are not being used for the same thing - storage on a camera vs editing in a NLE.
There are some good intermediate codecs available that are not part of Premiere but should work. I've heard a lot of chatter on here for DNxHD and UT. Both of those are free.

My Bridge keeps opening raw files in Photoshop?

My Bridge keeps opening raw files in Photoshop CS5?

That's what it is supposed to do. Is CS5 the most recent version of Photoshop on your computer?

How do i keep my RAW files from turing to jpeg files when exporting them to My Passport?

I am an amature photographer and take all my pitures in RAW form (highest quality and more editing capability). I was given a My Passport for Mac external harddrive to transfer all my files to to open more space on my mac book. When importing my RAW files to the Passport they automatically turn to JPEG files. I just re-imported a few files from the Passport back into Aperature and they are still JPEG files Is there something i need to do to keep my RAW files RAW? If not with the Passport, is there another external that would be of better use to me?

When you drag and drop the from Aperture you export the JPEG Preview.
Use the command "File > Export" in Aperture to export the original files.
You can also open an Aperture library in Photos - this will create a Photos library.

Is there a way to develop the same raw file multiple times, each time keeping the final product?

I've been working with my NEF raw files. When I import one into LR I can start developing it right away, which I've done. I also know that the modifications aren't made to the raw file but kept in an XMP file. Since the I'm not actually changing the raw file do you know if there is a way to make a secondary edit of the file?
Here's an example. Let's say I have a raw file and I want to develop it in color. Then when I'm all done I want to start over and develop it again and black and white but keep the color one as well.
I know I can undo all the edits I've made but then I lose all that work too.
Is there a way to develop an image twice and keep both final products? I know copying the raw file and renaming it is one crude way but I have to believe there's a better, easier way.

Yes, you can make a virtual copy at any time.
If you want the virtual copy to be un-edited after you have done some editing to the "non-virtual copy", you could open the "non-virtual copy" in the Develop Module, click on Reset, create the virtual copy, then undo the Reset operation (click on the last real edit in the History Panel)

How can I REPLACE original RAW files with JPG's and keep my 'Develop mode' edits?

An image describing my problem:
http://i.imgur.com/hcqMYkv.jpg
(Lightroom 5)
'edits' = Edits made in develop mode.
'CR2' = My RAW image file format.
I have existing CR2's with edits for them saved in Lightroom.
I want to replace the CR2's with JPG's, and do nothing else. I want those JPG's to inherit the CR2's edits, but I DO NOT want the edits to be permanently applied to the image.
If I export the CR2's (which have edits) to JPG's, the edits will be permanently applied to them. I do not want this.
If I export the CR2's to JPG's without the edits, I have no way of getting the edits back and will have to redo the work if I use that photo again.
Any solutions? I've been trying for a while and have no idea how to do this.
Q: Why not keep the CR2's?
A: I am uploading these files to an online host (S3) as my primary storage method and uploading CR2's takes way too long with my internet speeds. Furthermore, online storage costs money.
Q: Why not shoot with JPGs instead of shooting raw?
A: I do my initial edits with the raw files and then archive them as JPG's to save storage space. They won't be raw anymore if I apply future edits, but I still have the option of retouching them from the 'original' state and still have my old edits preserved.

Probably the best thing for you to do is simply use lossy DNG format (e.g. export as, or convert to..): raw data is re-formatted with jpeg compression (full-rez or reduced-rez), but all raw settings apply.
If you insist on trying to have a true jpeg file with (mostly) raw settings, then:
The simplest way I can think of to do it without a script or plugin:
* Reset the raw photo (consider preserving things that don't translate well, like profile-based lens corrections and white balance).
* Export jpeg
* Un-reset the image (e.g. using edit history or pre-reset snapshot).
* Sync settings from raw to jpeg (note: omit settings that don't transfer well, or that were not reset..).
* Optionally: Delete raw
To automate/streamline would require a script or plugin.

Keeping keywords and rating 'stars' a permanent part of RAW files

I store RAW files on a portable HD.
I use it for both desktop and laptop.
Keywords and rating 'stars' entered on one machine do not appear when using the other.
How can i make the keywords and rating 'stars' transferrable from one machine to another?

I had a chance to talk to product managers from both Apple & Adobe about this at PhotoPlus Expo in NYC a couple years back. Both seemed receptive, but here we are - years later - no progress.
I think part of the problem is that there's a purist mentality about RAW files. One should always shoot them - and then keep them forever- after all- they're your negatives!
But what about event photography? Or weddings, as you pointed out? It makes no sense to burden your workflow & backup system with 4GB of RAW files of people grinning into the camera. Once the adjustments have been made, the RAW files are just a ball & chain on your data management. And let's not forget, once you really know what you're doing, your jpegs should be good most of the time anyway.
I want RAW files as a safety net for errors in exposure and white balance. Once I know I have good photos, I don't need the safety net anymore- at least not at the price of all that hard disk space and transfer time for online backup. Of course, for my fine art stuff and important documentary work, I'll always keep the RAWs permanently. But not for routine parties/events.
You put your finger on the problem with re-importing jpegs as a solution. You lose your metadata- rankings/album memberships, etc. This is no solution!
What I want is simple, and it would be immediately useful to countless photographers:
1) Let me batch-delete RAW files when the jpegs are ok.
2) Let me do adjustments on my RAW file, render out a high-quality jpeg, and make the jpeg my new master.
Whoever does this first - Aperture or Lightroom - that's the product I'll use.

How to delete raw files while keeping original jpgs/later versions?

I'm using Aperture currently, which apparently can't do this -- if Lightroom can, I'm switching.
What I'd like to do is shoot everything in raw + jpg (using Nikon D200), and then keep the raw files only for the important shots.
I really like having the option of raw processing, but the storage demands are obviously very big. If I could just make a selection of multiple photos, and have a command to delete all the raw files from the selected photos, while keeping the original jpgs, that would be great.
Also, it would be great to be able to manipulate a raw file, and then when I'm satisfied with the image, to generate a full-size jpg & ditch the raw file. The jpg then becomes the master for that image.
Basically, I want the raw file safety net for everyday images, without gobbling up gigabytes of disk space every time...
Can Lightroom do this?

I am unable to hide RAW files in Bridge.
And I can't delete or rename them in Windows Explorer.
I'm using XP SP3.
Rejected RAW files appear in Bridge as unlabeled files. They are not hidden. "Show Hidden Files" is not checked; "Show Reject Files" is NOT checked. I've got the Label settings on. I created a subfolder and moved a batch of rejected RAWs there. They still show up, but at least they're labeled "Rejected."
Delete: I have a big sort to do, and I'd even be willing to delete these RAW files to avoid seeing them in Bridge.
I tried deleting them in Bridge using several methods, but I get an error message that tells me I don't have the "sufficient permissions." This happens even when I try to delete just one file.
I also tried deleting them in Windows Explorer. There, I got an error message that theyare in use by another program. I cannot re-name them in Explorer either. I got the same error message even when I shut down my computer and opened ONLY Windows Explorer. In Properties > File Attributes, neither Hidden or Read-Only are checked.
This is a big and important project, and I'm TOTALLY STUMPED!

Airdropis converting raw files to jpegs when I transfer them to my iMac at home. how do i keep the raw format across the drop?

As Above the raw files convert to jpegs and I need to keep the raw format any ideas anyone?

Converting to DNG could happen if you were dragging and dropping images from a Finder/Explorer folder into the LR thumbnails grid, which would initiate an Import operation, where you also have Copy as DNG set as your Import method. I would expect you’d see the Import panel open every time you did this, so it’d be obvious what was occurring. Dragging and dropping new images into LR this way is my standard method of Import.
One might guess conversion to DNG could occur if you drag and drop from within LR to a folder outside of LR in Finder/Explorer so an Export operation is initiated; however, on Windows, at least, this does not occur. Sometime does occur, though, because when I tried this to make sure it didn’t work, I had LR on top, then an Explorer folder beside it and my Outlook e-mail program behind the folder. When I dragged-and-dropped the thumbnail into Explorer, I got a circle-slash cursor indicating it was a prohibited operation, but then when I switched over to Outlook to write this reply, the cursor was jumping from where it was at the top of the reply to down further in the reply area, and I had to close LR to get this to stop, so LR or the OS is doing something when dragging and dropping a LR thumbnail to outside of LR. It’s possible that on a Mac different things occur.
In any case, when you move things in LR, you should be dragging and dropping thumbnails in LR to another folder in the LR folder structure, all within LR, and by default this generates a warning message box that says things cannot be undone if you do this, although there is a Don’t Show This Again checkbox. You might want to click the Reset all Warning Dialogs button in LR Preferences, so you’ll see any message boxes like this again.

Is there any benefit to keep the RAW file after editing outside Lightroom creates a TIFF

When working with RAW files in Lightroom and you choose to edit in Photoshop, the only option is "Edit a copy with Lightroom Adjustments" (Edit Original is grayed out). This creates a .TIFF so after you come back from Photoshop you now have two copies of the photo--the RAW file and a TIFF version.
In my normal workflow, I make additional edits to the TIFF file in addition to the changes Photoshop made so I'm left with a "out dated" version of the RAW file. Is there any benefit to keeping the RAW file at that point? I'm doubling my disk usage by keeping it.
Fire away.....

Answering this question:
This got me wonderig why LR turns my 25-30mb CR2 RAW files into 80-95 mb TIFF files when it sends them to Photoshop for editing but Photoshop can open the same 25-30 RAW file in DNG format and save it as a 25-30 mb TIFF. Why are the TIFF's LR creates 3x larger than the ones created by PS?
Camera RAW file formats are compressed to a small file size using manufacturer proprietary information about the image sensor pixel layout. This provides a more efficient loss-less file compression algorithm than TIFF's LZW or ZIP compression algorithms. LZW or ZIP compression is not used when Lightroom exports and opens an image in Photoshop for editing, but you certainly have that option when saving the file after applying your PS edits. DNG files using loss-less compression can produce a file size slightly smaller than RAW format, but I have no experience with DNG.
Answering this question:
CS3 can't read Canon .CR2 RAW files (at least mine can't unless there is a plugin of some kind).
Support for newer camera models like your Canon 7D are only added to the then current (and later version) Adobe Camera RAW Converter and Lightroom. Newer Adobe Camera RAW converter versions (6.3) are not supported in older version of Photoshop like CS3. It is the nature of business marketing and also due to the large expense to support older application versions with "new" plug-in features. It would be a support nightmare!
Hypothetical Example:
"Why doesn't Adobe Camera RAW 10.3 work properly with my Canon 1600 D MK XV 45 Megapixel camera in Photoshop CS3?"

Do I need to keep my xmp files after converting my raw files to dng?

I originally set up Lr to automatically build xmp files. Recently, I decided to go with dng files and have converted all my raw files to dng. Can I now delete all my xmp files and change my Lr setting so xmp files are no longer automatically produced?

WDKlein1000 wrote:
I think I've got this straight. My goal is to keep the xmp data with the image file (embedded into the file in the case of dng files) as well as in the Lr catalog. I still need to auto (or manually) save xmp files in order for Lr to save the xmp data internally to the dng file. Right?
Perfectly right.
WDKlein1000 wrote:
I've been converting to dng after I have done my initial Lr processing of the raw files and the sidecar files have already been produced. When I convert to dng, the side car files aren't automatically deleted.
I *think* if you say: do not delete previous raw, it keeps both xmp and original raw files. However, if you say: delete original raws upon conversion, it will delete both raw files and xmp sidecars. In other words, they are treated as a unit. So I suspect your raw files are not being deleted either, right? Note: if this is the case, then whenever you sync your folders, it's gonna wanna pull in all the original raws again. If it were me, rather than deleteing the xmp and leaving the sibling raws, I'd move both to a backup.
WDKlein1000 wrote:
I wonder if the sidecar files would ever be produced if I imported with the option to convert to dng and then wouldn't ever be editting the raw files?
They would not. If you know you are going to prefer DNG, it seems prudent to convert upon import.
WDKlein1000 wrote:
I know the sidecar files are relatively small, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to go back and delete them once the xmp data is embeded in the dng files. Right?
Right again - delete away...
UPDATE: I didn't see AR's previous post when I wrote this, sorry for redundancy.
Rob

When using Lightroom Book module for Blurb book making, why do I keep getting a low image quality message if it's supposedly accessing my large raw files in my library?

When using Lightroom Book module for Blurb book making, why do I keep getting a low image quality message if it's supposedly accessing my large raw files in my library?

I think I've solved my problem with a Google Search. I came across a free slide show generator
(contributions requested) that shows much higher quality slide shows than either iPhoto or Aperture 3.
You click on a folder of jpegs and it almost immediately generates thumbnails and within a few seconds
I can be viewing a full screen, tack sharp, slideshow of all of the files in the folder. Much sharper than
I'm used to seeing.
I think I'll keep the Aperture 3 and use if for the purpose it's intended for in the future. I'll also redo the
image preview files to the small size it started with and then I'll copy all of the files I'm interested in from
iPhoto into a separate folder on another disk. I'll use Aperture to catalog and to perform image manipulations
on but I won't try to use it as an iPhoto replacement. I don't think I'll be using iPhoto much as an image
viewer in the future either after I finish moving my favorite pictures to the Phoenix Slides folder.
The name of the free program is Phoenix Slides. It's free to download and try, free to keep (though I
think you'd want to pay the small amount requested) and fast. My pictures have never looked so good
before.
http://blyt.net/phxslides/
Message was edited by: Jimbo2001

Why can't my computer update elements 9 - keeps coming up as error and try later. I can't now process RAW files it comes up as CR2

why can't do updates for elements 9 keep coming up as "error in system try later" I can't now process RAW files they come up as CR2. This has happened in lightroom 5 also

594594
What is your program - Photoshop Elements 9 or Premiere Elements 9? If Photoshop Elements 9, you have posted in the wrong forum. You have posted in Adobe Premiere Elements Forum (video editing). Although Camera Raw allows for the import of raw format image and dng into a Premiere Elements project as source media, you cannot "process" it in the Camera Raw dialog. You need Photoshop Elements for that.
If your program is Photoshop Elements, please re-post your thread in the Adobe Photoshop Elements Forum or wait for a moderator here to see your thread here and move it from here to there.
Photoshop Elements
Some information that might help as you take care of the above....
Does your current problem exist with and without antivirus and firewall(s) disabled?
Are you getting an error message (number/code) associate with your Help Menu/Update?
The latest version of Camera Raw that is supported by version 9.0/9.0.1 seems to be 6.5. Do you have that currently installed?
If you cannot get the program's Help Menu/Update to work for you, then download and install Camera Raw 6.5 from the following from Adobe
For Mac
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=5263
For Windows
Adobe - Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter : For Windows : Camera Raw 6.5 update
What camera are you using to generate your raw format images.
Camera Raw plug-in | Supported cameras
If it is not yet supported by 6.5, then
a. move to a later version of Photoshop Elements that supports a later version of Camera Raw that supports your camera.
b. use the dng converter
ATR

No option to keep original Raw file?

What happened to the option to keep original Raw files in File Handling Preferences? I see that you can still embed them, but I'd still like to have the original NEFs.

But that does not mean that you import the NEFs into LR, you just have a backup option in case something happend with your DNG-conversion into LR-catalog.
(Which is fine for me as well, as I never intend to revert to Nikon proprietary software.)

Is there a way to keep images as RAW files when editing with Photo Shop ???

The drawback I find with aperture is that when using photoshop as editor I cannot keep my raw files. They are converted to TIFFS...Is there a way that I can keep them in Raw????? Thanks!!

Your original RAW files are still there in your Aperture library in your pictures folder. Or on an external hard drive if you are referencing them.... They are never touched, you are editing a 'version' of your original RAW file.
When you export to PS Aperture creates a new 'version' of the original and exports that to PS. The file format that it returns to Aperture as, from PS, is controlled by you in Aperture preferences... > Export Tab > External Editor file format....
You can have your pictures in the format you choose. But your original RAW's are untouched.
Regards..... Gerry..

Keeping RAW files

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