Keyword hierarchy corrupted with every export

Why oh why when I export any image from one folder to another do I end up with most keywords applied to that image written to my hierarchical keyword list as a new 1st level keyword and not under the parent keyword as they should be? I've tried everything. I'm using Windows 7 64 bit, with the latest LR 3. Export Synonyms, Include on Export, Export containing keywords are all checked with all the keywords and I've unchecked the Write Keywords as Hierarchy in the Export dialogue. With every export I have to clean up my keyword list and I'm at wits end with wasted hours. Any ideas ANYONE? Thanks in advance!

Thanks John for your input. Your link & explanation of the export
process is helpful.
In reply, Yes, I am using the File>Export command with the option Add to
this Catalog..... for I have been basically putting together photo
submissions to various publishers and creating a Jpeg or Tiff file from
the RAW and keeping the RAW intact in its original folder. As a result
I have that new file created and sent to a new folder set up for a
particular publisher solely for a record of that submission. (Hope
that's clear) I've done this with both the "Write Keywords as
Hierarchy" checked and unchecked which appears to get the same results.
Where I think the problem lies primarily is with any synonyms I've
applied to keywords (ie; scientific names for various animal species)
And if I've checked "write keywords as hierarchy" I also end up with a
keyword list in the metadata that includes the top level parent keyword,
which I don't necessarily want visible ( such as the word "Place" along
with "Colorado") You do mention that synonyms are treated differently....
The synonym Plantea, however, still gets imported as a top-level
keyword, because when you tell LR to export synonyms, it never
includes the parent of the synonym in the file.
Would it be better in order to keep a scientific name in the hierarchy
to instead insert that name under the parent tag in the hierarchy rather
than as a synonym? Seems like an inadequate use of synonyms per se.
Barb

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Hello All,
I've noticing an issue with keyword export in Lightroom 4.0 64 bit Mac OS. In 4.0, as compared to 3.6, when I select uncheck the "Include on Export" box of a parent keyword not only is that keyword removed from the exported keywords but all parents keywords above it in the heirarchy. For example if my keyword hierarchy is as follows:
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Hi,
I am exporting my pictures to be shown in a wordpress blog. I set up wordpress in a way to use the meta data. I have a hierarchy for people "People > private > Paul". What I get now in wordpress is the flattened hierarchy. What I want to see is "Paul". Is it possible to achive this somehow? The checkboxes do not seem to do the trick.
Thanks!

If you only want the bottom (last) keyword to be exported you'll have to setup the keywords higher up the hierarchy as non exportable. Right click the containing keyword and choose Edit Keyword from context menu.
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I would like to export the whole keyword hierarchy for the photos I export but I can't find a way to do it.
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a
--b
-----c
d
e
f
--g
-----h
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a, b, e, f, g, h
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The first image is a screen capture of a throw away image in PSE 7. The second image is a screen capture of MS Pro Photo Tools and the Vista Image Properties/Details for the same image. There are two hierarchies created in Lightroom and exported as Lightroom hierarchies: Places/National Parks/Glacier and Wildlife/Birds/Clark's Nutcracker. The keywords show up as a flat hierarchy with each keyword separated by a comma in PSE 7 and by a semicolon in both Pro Photo Tools and the image details. I have not been able to find a way to get PSE 7 to respect Lightroom hierarchies.
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Is there any method of ensuring that all the inherited keywords are included in the version metadata?
No luck - that is driving me crazy too. It is particularly annoying, if you export and reimport; then you have all of a sudden duplicate keywords:
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You could try to rename the keywords to include the inherited part: Times Square-Manhattan-NewYork ....
A better handling of hierarchical keywords is my fondest wish for Aperture 4
Regards
Léonie

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An asterisk in that view means that you have multiple images selected, and that keyword (or synonym) is defined only for some of them.
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Export more verbose keyword hierarchy

Today when you export the keyword hierarchy (Lightroom 1.0) only the names of the keywords are exported (tab-delimited). I'd like to also include the other information, such as if the keyword is exported and its synonyms etc.

Including synonyms (maybe another tab and then a list) would make it much easier to edit.
I have a problem (could be pilot error...) that when I export a keyword set and edit it to create hierarchies that when I import the new list, it has a) not replaced the prior list (should have an option) and b) that moved keywords loose the associate to all of the photos they had.
It seems that the only effective way to build hierarchies is drag and drop of keywords which is slower than the external editor approach.
Patrick

Why are most of my keywords not included when I export images?

Why are most of my keywords not included when I export images?
Since starting with Lightroom 1, I've entered keywords into either of the two fields between "keyword tags" and "keyword suggestions" in the keywording panel. I was unaware that some keywords are more equal than others, or that Lightroom offered (or has added?) hierarchy support.
I recently stumbled into the news (to me) that Lightroom tags can be organized into a hierarchy, so I exported my keywords to a text file to examine. I hadn't unwittingly created any hierarchies, but an astounding fraction of the keywords were within square brackets. Sure enough, if I export an image, keywords within square brackets are omitted from the output (jpeg) file. How nice. Since I began with Lightroom 1, I've added nearly 1600 keywords.. Too bad most of them are coded wrong... so as not to accompany output that I create.
1.     What was I supposed to do, as a photographer beginning to use Lightroom, to enter keywords simply but reliably: what I type is what I get? I'd expected that's what the "just type here" interface would provide.
I especially dislike obtaining erratic results: most keywords are in square brackets, but a few are not. Of course, when I use a simplified interface, I should expect not to have access to some of the options or features. However, I shouldn't inadvertently trigger undocumented behavior.
2.     Does the Adobe reference help system say how to enter keywords simply and reliably, in its documentation of the keywording panel? I don't find my answer under the Keywords topic, within Home / Using Photoshop Lightroom 3 / Organizing photos in the catalog.
(I NOW realize that the instructions for the "Create/Edit keyword tags" dialog mention exporting. However, that's not the method I was using.)
Dick Rawson

I'm afraid that I distracted you with my background mention of hierarcharial keywords; I'm not asking about them.
I've entered keywords for several years of using Lightroom. Suddenly, this week, I find that most (yet not all) of them have the attribute of "don't include the keyword in an exported file's metadata." I never intended to ask for that; I thought all keywords will stay with the file and its offspring, and that's what I wanted.
So I'm asking:
1.     What did I do "wrong" to induce Lightroom to give the keywords that attribute? I never intended to ask it to.
2.     Where does Adobe document how to enter keywords reliably so that they stay with the file on output? I can't find that Adobe does.
> Can you be more clear about keywords in square brackets? I know when you export the keywords as a list you can get a normalized data file that uses punctuation and tabs as delimiters...
I did export the keywords into such a list: most keywords in the plain-text list have square brackets surrounding them, indicating keywords that will be omitted from metadata of any image that Lightroom exports.
My concern is not that the brackets are there. They encode the attribute of "don't include the keyword in an exported file's metadata," and recognizing that attribute concerns me.
> ...but I've never seen keywords in image files or in the interface rendered so.
I haven't, either.
Dick Rawson

How About Some Standard Standards For Keyword Hierarchy?

After reading Wolf Eilers post in the "Respect Keyword Hierarchy when importing" thread, I tried his example and exported a RAW file with the "Outdoor>Landscape" example he gave and then re-imported the jpeg. It came back in with Landscape as the parent of Outdoor, that is backwards from what I intended. Go figure.
If LR respects ">" as indicating a parent-child relationship between keywords it is fine with me. However, Microsoft decided to use "/" because there is apparently no XMP standard for keyword hierarchies. Wouldn't it be nice if Adobe, Microsoft, and Apple too got together and set a defacto standard for keyword hierarchies. As it is now, I can create a keyword "Outdoor/Landscape" in LR and have it appear in Vista Photo Gallery with Landscape as a child of Outdoor. However, if re-imported into LR it comes in as "Outdoor/Landscape". Can't we just all get along?

Absolutely no. A completely pointless exercise. As there can be no standard for such a thing. As people have so many, very different ways of filing things. It like suggesting that we all use the same folder tree for filing on our computers. Our relationship to keywords and their meaning will change.
Take Brad Pitt, would you put him under Actor, celebrity or relative. His mum would file him under Son/Family.
What about places. I use UK, Europe, Asia, Africa...as top level domains. Now someone who lives in Japan would have Japan as home and the UK as Europe/UK. Some people may like to file musical acts by city of origin, others by genre, neither is wrong and both are correct for the right person. Being able to do both would be even better.
You just design a heirachy that suits yourself. Adobe just has to find a way of respecting that and allowing you to transfer that heirarchy intact between apps.
Someone else posted this example of heirachy. Which will work well for some, but not for others. Plus, in context of what you ask, remember everyone's family structure is different so how can you possibly have a 'standard' heirachy.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=98612897&size=o
In your example above, I wouldn't use Outdoor and Landscape as Landscape. As for my filing I simply do not have an inside and outside category. I probably wouldn't even have a landscape category either, I would file them under location in a heirachical tree like UK/Wales/West Glamorgan/Gower/Rhosilli/Headland. I may add Landscape as a key word, but would not use it as a category as the heirachy tree above makes more sense to me as I can remember where things are.
I also file everthing by date in my OS as I can remember when I took things reasonably well and that ensures I have a coherent filing system onto which I can apply a database.

How to flatten keyword hierarchy?

For about a year I had all my keywords organized into a nice hierarchy, but after moving projects between libraries and computers my keywords are in chaos because keyword hierarchy information is not included in exported projects. I have keywords repeated with one nested in a folder and its copy sitting at the top level (with photos assigned to both).
After seeing what a mess moving projects causes, I'd like to eliminate the hierarchies and just keep a flat list. Does anyone know of a way to flatten the structure without having to drag each keyword out of its folder? I tried deleting the Keywords.plist file, but it gets rebuilt with the hierarchy intact. Any help is appreciated!

One thing that might be a factor is the way Aperture keeps keywords active even if you move or delete them in the keywords list.
In order to have control over your keyword list, you need to delete existing keywords from your images. As Steve Weller points out in his articles, Aperture keeps keyword information in several places, not just the keyword list, and you need to deal with all of the places in order to control the hierarchy of the keyword list. For example, if you have set up custom keyword buttons, they store the keyword in the hierarchy of the time the button was created, so each time you use the button, you are making Aperture "remember" the hierarchy, even if you have later moved the keyword.
But your issue is that you have many images using keywords. When a keyword is used in an image, it is stored with the image; Aperture remembers the hierarchy of the keyword. This means that if you later move that keyword in the keyword list, Aperture considers the moved keyword to be separate and independent of the keyword previously used with an image. You can see this in the smart album display of keywords, which is based on actually used keywords. If you are having this problem, then keywords will appear more than once in the smart album keyword list. If you want to keep the same spelling of a keyword that has been moved in the keyword list, the only solution I know of is, frankly, a bit tedious:
1. use the smart album to select all images using the unwanted version of the keyword
2. then assign an "intermediate" (not identically spelled) keyword to those images,
3. then delete the unwanted version of the keyword from the images (use the keyword field in the control bar; option-tilde or click on the field, then type the name of the unwanted keyword, then shift-return to delete the keyword)
4. then assign the new version of the keyword to the images
5. then delete the intermediate keyword
Good luck!

Keyword hierarchy, nesting, and labels

I have keyword hierarchies set up. I utilize the drag and drop method of keywording.
Is there a way to tell Lightroom to keyword the nested(above) keywords to the photo I am keywording?
In other words:
I have an 'adirondaks' keyword. this is nested below 'places' 'united states' 'new york'. If I drag and drop the photos onto adirondaks, then only that keyword shows up, and not the places, united states, new york, also.
There has to be a way to do this... right?

Given your example, let's suppose the following keyword hierarchy:
Places
---United States
-----New York
--------Adirondaks
-----California
--------San Diego
--------San Francisco
Only the bottom keywords of a keyword hierarchy should be used to tag a photo. From the above example, that would be 'Adirondaks', 'San Diego' or 'San Francisco'. The higher level keywords will not show in the keyword tags of the photos but will be inherited for searching. You could therefore filter on New York and it will bring you all the pictures of the Adirondaks, or filter on Californa and all photos tagged with San Diego and San Francisco will be in the selection. Finally, if you filter on United States, you will see all photos tagged with the bottom keywords of all sub hierarchy under United States, in this case Adirondaks, San Diego and San Francisco.
If you export a photo tagged with the Adirondaks keyword, all keywords in the hierarchy will also be included in the export as long as each keyword in the hierarchy have the "Include on export" option checked.
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