KT3 Ultra Deluxe Processor Upgrade Question

I purchased a Computer, custom built by a local shop(before I got into the spyware/virus removal business and woulda possibly tried to build my own) a few years back, and it has been a great system except that now the one online game I play, Everquest, is running slow when 30+ players are on the screen.   Other friends with brand new computers experience no lag/choppyness...  The lag is only experienced with multiple players on screen.
With some friends, we have decided that it is not my Video card or anything else in the system, but the processor that needs upgrading.
I have :
AMD AthlonXP 1800(1507mhz in bios i think)
MSI KT3 Ultra Deluxe(VIA KT333 chipset based) (it has RAID, so im assuming the ARU model)
1024mb PC2100 or PC2700 ram..(not sure how to check)
NVidia GeforceFX5500 256mb Video
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy
Maxtor 7200rpm 40gb hard drive on Raid IDEs(set as dummy IDEs, not RAID)
Maxtor 7200rpm 80gb hard drive on Raid IDEs(set as dummy IDEs, not RAID)
Lite on 16x DVD-Rom drive(Primary IDE master)
Plextor 8/4/4/2/12 DVD-RW PX-708A(Secondary IDE Master)
Originally windows98 installed by the store.
Reformatted twice and Windows 2000 installed presently.
a SMC $10 junk NIC that I will be replacing with a 3com cause im tired of it after 2months(my good netgear FA311 went bad)
What I am wanting a definite answer on, is whether I can stick a 2600mhz, 333 Barton Athlon XP in this.
I have searched the forums and most topics say yes/no... 50/50...  so im confused.
Is it possible to put the 2600 in there...  will that even help...  on player movement/etc in the game..(a friend with a similar system and a Radeon X800 Pro 256mb sees no difference and has similar lag to me(only in large player raids with multiple players on screen))
I am just trying to see if I can spend $100 to throw a Barton 333 2600mhz in here and I think that should help it.. 
or if I have to spend $250+ to possibly get a new PS, ram, processor/mobo the works.
So.. is it possible?
How much work would be put into it, besides
Turn system off, unscrew the fan/heatsink, pop the processor out
put the new processor in.
Put the new heatsink/fan on
start the system?
Or is there going to be alot of.....  BIOS work involved.

Friend has very similar system
1700 AthlonXP
1gig ram
ATI Radeon X800 256mb(a premier card I thought?   as in performance) Pro
He experiences lag/choppiness same as me, at times with 30+ users on the screen/game.
I had read that officially Barton was impossible, im just asking if there is anyway to put a barton on it and will it work/how much work will it end up needing.
266mhz 2600s arent available anywhere I look....   no 266mhz is actually..
So Im just fearing ill need to upgrade the entire motherboard too.. and may be better off getting a new barebones kit.
Its not gradual... its just when 30 players/characters are on the screen.... especially when they move... it gets choppy, take the number down to 10... and its lag free/choppy free.
5v and 3.3v = 245 max watts
5v, 3.3v and 12v = 380 max watts
115/230 Volts
3.3=28A
5=40A
12=18A
The NIC is being ordered as im typing this...   hopefully a 3com NIC will provide better power than a SMC 10$ replacement for my netgear FA311...
It has to be either the NIC or the processor.
The reason for this im just saying.. is my friend has sound blaster audigy, similar processor(1700), cheap nic, a MSI mobo, not sure if its Ultra3 or not... and has very similar issues to me, despite throwing $350 down on that Radeon X800 256mb Pro, supposedly the best video card you can get.
It didnt relieve hardly any of his lag... and hes quite....   happy about it... /sarcasm

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    Quote
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    Quote
    Originally posted by Reijin
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  • PC Component power requirements on a KT3 Ultra-ARU: ANSWERS - At last

    G'Day Folk,
    First, my PC specs are as below in my sig.
    Second, I know this is an old motherboard, but I would like to keep it going, and make the best of it for another year or so. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and would help two other users!
    Symptoms:
    Minor stability and performance issues, mostly in games, simulators, or doing high resolution photographics processing. I bought three machines with similar specs in 2002, for my brother, father, and myself. Each has had some hard to nail down, intermittent problems. My brother's PC has had a new motherboard and processor after failure of the KT3, but still has some niggling problems. He also has an XP 2600+ running at 65C !
    More recently I have been able to reliably reproduce graphics problems in Empire Earth II, Serious Sam, and Halo. Specifically, I can create the problem in an Empire Earth II game by running a saved game and looking at a specific spot on the map. The screen shows tearing, and eventually goes black, returning to normal dispaly when I move to a different part of the map. In certain Halo games I could cause the problem by looking in a specific direction. I assume this is because what is being displayed is using different or more graphics processing features, although it is not apparent what they may be from the content of the view.
    Being able to reliably reproduce the problem allowed me to actually analyse the cause.
    Diagnosis:
    After upgrading all drivers, and trying everything I could think of, as well as everything I could find on the web, especially in this forum, I have narrowed the problem down to the power supply. The clincher for me is that when I create the problem the 3.3Volt power supply line (rail) drops to as low as 2.45Volts! The +5V line also fluctuates and drops as low as 4.81Volt. This was measured using MBM5 and MBM5 Log. The usual voltages reported by MBM5 at idle are +3.3V rail = 2.99 to 3.01 Volt, +5V rail = 4.92 to 4.95 Volt.
    Okay, so the +5V rail stays in spec (just), but the +3.3V rail is out of spec (+/- 5%) even at idle. It should be at least 3.135Volt.
    I checked the voltages with and without the problem using an analogue volt meter, as software voltage readings are often low. The volt meter is a little slow to respond to the voltage fluctuations, but did confirm that at idle the +3.3V rail was less than 3.1Volt (out of spec), and with the problem occuring, dropped at least to 2.8Volt.
    As you can see below my power supply should be able to handle all I throw at it. Topower isn't the greatest brand, but it does receive "satisfactory" in reviews on Tom's Hardware and such. I suspect it (and my brother's and father's) has always been weak, although age, or more powerful games may be highlighting the problem.
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    Get a new power supply.
    Not so simple these days, particularly if you want to upgrade in the future, with the move to powering components using the 12Volt rail. I want a power supply that will power my current +3.3V and +5V hungry motherboard, plus future 12V requirements, if possible. So I am doing a Power Audit of my PC, hence . . .
    Questions:
    I have collected power requirements for most of my components in Ampere by supply voltage. However, details are hard to lock down. I'll jump straight into specific questions.
    1. The Athlon XP 2100+ draws a maximum of 89.9Watts into the Voltage Regulator Module (VRM), which converts it to the CPU supply voltage of 1.75Volt. (About 51Amps. Ouch!) If this is sourced from the +12V rail as suggested by the AMD Athlon Desktop Builders Guide, then this would be 7.49Amp, and would not effect the +3.3V and +5V rails unless the total power capacity of the supply is being exceeded. However, the CPU power source was changed from the +3.3V and +5V lines to the +12V lines around the time of the XP2100+. I don't know what MSI did on my motherboard.
    Can anyone confirm which voltage rail is used to power the XP 2100+ on the KT3 Ultra ARU motherboard?
    2. I have found average power usages for motherboards of around 25 Watt on many web sites, but can't confirm the power used by the KT3. Does anyone know the maximum current (Amps) for each voltage rail from the power supply for this motherboard?
    3. Memory power requirements also vary a lot on the web. I'm using 10Watt each on the +3.3V rail for two sticks of 512MB DDR Corsair. Can anybody confirm this, for the KT3? (10W per stick seems to have been the standard since 128MB sticks came out!)
    4. I have a GeForce 4 Ti 4600 AGP graphics card. (Okay, it's not an MSI, but the power should be similar across brands.) There are several threads that suggest that this card uses lots of +3.3V and +5V power from the AGP slot. (Wonkanoby?) However, none give actual Amps for each rail. Anybody know?
    5. In case anybody knows, I can't find actual power for an Audigy 2 ZS either. Any suggestions?
    As modern power supplies tend to have reduced +3.3V and +5V capacity in favour of +12V, I need to be pretty sure of the actual requirements on these rails before buying a new supply. I could just "go and by the biggest Antec I can find and don't worry about it", but I might find that it has the same problems my existing one does.
    All help greatly appreciated. Selection of a new PSU could fix three PCs, mine, my brother's, and my father's.
    PS: My apologies to those I told that this was a great power supply. Well, it has great specs, and the problems observed couldn't be tied to it until recently. Bummer really.
    PPS: Sorry for the long post, but it's an interesting, and important topic, isn't it?
    UPDATE: See post on 1st March, 2006 for response from vendors and updated table of component requirements.
    Here is a copy of my signature in case I change it in the future, just for context.
    MSI KT3 Ultra ARU (MS-6380E V1.0),  AMI BIOS 5.7
    AMD Athlon XP 2100+ Palomino 1.73GHz @13 x 133 FSB
    2x Corsair CMX-512-3000C2 512MB 2-2-2-5-1T @333MHz
    Leadtek GeForce4 Ti 4600 Winfast A250 Ultra MyVIVO 128MB (AGP)
    Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
    2x WD Caviar WD1200JB 120GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache,
              each drive enclosed in a Scythe Silent Box Heatlane HDD Enclosure
    CD&DVD Plextor PX320A & Pioneer DVR-A09P
    Topower PSU 470W PFC 3.3+5V=235W +3.3V/26A, +5V/47A, +12V/28A
    mCubed T-Balancer Fan Controller,
              multiple quiet fans: Zalman, SilenX, Panaflo, Lian Li blower
    Zalman CNPS6000-Cu & ZM-NB32J NB HS
    ~ 10-20C over ambient
    Lian-Li PC-60 Case, WinXP ProSP2+

    Try the link below, this will tell you what you need. After you added all you hardware and get the final power result add 50% to this and you will have the proper size P/S needed for your system. You can even make a list of future upgrades you want to do and that way you can see what P/S will work for you now in the present and what you would need in the future, just remember to add 50% to what ever total you add up.
    For example, if the P/S calculator says you have a total draw of 279W then you would add 50% to this;
    279+50%=418.5
    http://www.extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp
    Below I have pasted a piece that I made for determing P/S which may help you to;
    Resets are a P/S issue and lock-ups are most likely due to your graphic card, with that said I will give you a table with which you can determine the proper P/S for your system and a little info just for info.
    I must also add that never trust software to tell you your voltages, this includes the BIOs as the BIOs is just a piece of software. To properly check the voltage one must use a digi-VOM.
    A 7200rpm HD draws around 20 watts, this 20 watts includes both the 5v & 12V rail.
    HD and CD's generally are figured at 2 Amps per device, let’s brake this down some.
    Spin-up: 12V x 1.3A + 5V x 650mA = 19W
    Read/Write/Idle: 12V x 350mA + 5V x 700mA = 7.75W
    Seek: 12V x 675mA + 5V x 725mA = 12W
    Those would be typical for a 7200 rpm IDE drive. As you can see a HD requires more power at start-up then during actual operation. This is why sometimes a PC takes a few tries to start up before it will actually make a successful boot and once it boots to windows all seems well or sometimes a occasional restart, which would indicate a weak/ bad P/S.
    Now to find the power used by the CPU you can check either AMD or Intel for the spec sheets on that CPU or you can follow this link that has tons of CPU ratings, CPU specs.
    Some more basic mathematics… When a 12-volt circuit is drawing 10 amps, it is consuming 120 WATTS of electrical power. 12 Volts X 10 Amps = 120 WATTS.
    This is the formula: P = E x I
    P - Watt (power)
    E – Voltage (electrical pressure)
    I – Amperage (current flow)
    Serial/PS-2 ports draw <35mA and if you have USB ports then they have a maximum of 500mA per port, again only if they are used- no use means no draw.
    The PCI slots are allowed 5A of the +5V, 0.5A of the +12V and 7.6A of the 3.3V Max per slot, again that is if the slots are used. So if the serial ports, PS-2 and USB ports are being used you are looking at around 5A draw on the MB, which would be around 20 Watts.
    So now we can add things up. (This is just an example of a basic system)
    MB=20W
    CPU= 60W, used as a norm.
    HD=20W
    CDRW=25W
    DVD=20W
    Graphic card=15W / newer GF4 and ATI 9000 and up= 35W
    RAM 10 Watts per 128 MB
    Network Card 5 Watts
    Average per PCI Card 8 Watts
    Total around 200W for this example.
    Now this will fall on different rails and that is were things get tricky, because as you see in my above break down of the HD that a HD use's both the 12V & 5V rail. This is why it is important that the 12V rail be at least 18 Amps if you plan on having more then 1 HD and case fans. Then you have the 3.3V & 5V rails that need to be strong too, the 3.3v rail is actually not so important with newer DDR MB and today’s CPU’s as it is mainly supplying the PS-2 ports power as well as some device cards. Most newer MB use the 5v and 12v rails mainly to supply the demands of today’s devices.
    Now this 200W is the bare min what is needed for things to run but in the real world you will want to add 50% to the 200W for your min P/S need, this allows room for spikes and heavy demands and a little head room to add hardware in the future.

  • Upgrading Questions....Please?

    I have some questions I am hoping someone will be able to help me with if it's not too much trouble.
       First off, I have a MSI KT3 Ultra motherboard running an XP 1800 CPU. I am thinking about upgrading it when I return home in a few days. After checking both this website, and AMD's website, it seems that the fasted CPU my motherboard is compatible with is an XP 2600. What's the deal with this? I was hoping to get a XP  3000, and the thought of getting an XP 2600 just seems like a bit of a waste. Could anyone tell me why I can't use an XP 3000? Is there no possible way to use an XP 3000 with my current motherboard??
       Secondly, I was also hoping to upgrade my RAM. I currently have a 256meg stick of KINGMAX PC-2700 RAM in it. This was somewhat cheap RAM that I bought for my computer while I was in Taiwan. After looking around on the internet and whatnot, I've noticed there doesn't seem to be KINGMAX RAM for sale anywhere, so it seems I'll have to get a different brand. I was hoping to get a 512meg stick and slap it in there when I get home. In terms of compatibility Is this a complete crapshoot or should it not be a problem? Also, I recall hearing that it isn't good to mix different capacity sticks of RAM together (256meg and 512 or whatnot). If I were to mix them, would it be detrimental to the performance of the RAM?
       Any help you could give me would be great. Thanks.

    thanks for the help. ok, I understand that apparently it is not compatible. If this is the case though, why is it that I can set the multiplier to 166? With my current CPU it is set to 133 (I once tried to set it to 166 out of curiousity, but it wouldn't boot). Is it likely that I will cause damage to some of the components (or all) if I were to get a 333 fsb processor and set the multiplier at 166? thanks.

  • KT3 Ultra 2R + Barton 3000+

    Hi all..
    Hope someone can help.
    I have a KT3 Ultra 2R board with the following stats:
    Athlon XP (Barton) 3000+ FSB 166 CPU
    CoolerMaster HHC-001 heatpipe H/sink with 80mm fan
    Antec 520W PSU
    2 x 100 ATA Maxtor Viper 80Gb HDD's with 8Mb cache each in striped RAID array
    Asus TI 4600 Ultra 128Mb V/card
    Audigy S/card
    Lite-on CD/RW
    Lite-on CD/DVD
    2 x 512Mb Corsair XMS 3000 DDR Ram (333 and above) with aluminium heat spreaders
    Lian-Li PC70 Tower case with 6 x 80mm fans
    Rounded cables throughout
    Win XP + SP1
    The Problem:
    This system worked fine with an Athlon XP 2200 CPU and I read MSI's CPU support list and saw the KT3 Ultra 2 6380E supported the Barton XP 3000+ CPU's so I bought one.  :P
    At first I had trouble booting on the 5.7 version bios, with the lock ups throught the bootup process. I reset the bois to the defaults and slowly worked up the settings using the recommendations in the forums.
    At the moment, the system will boot up with fast command set to normal, no agressive DDR timings, 1T command disabled, fastwrite disabled, agp read/write disabled and SDRAM set to SPD (HCLK).
    My 3DMark01 & 3DMark03 scores are lower than when I had the XP 2200 CPU installed and the SiSoft sandra results are the equivalent of a Athlon 2000. MSI says the board supports the Barton 3000+, but at what cost ???  :O
    The system is very unstable and and requires on average 3 boots to boot up successfully. The 3DMark03 test often locks up mid way.
    Any help or the settings MSI or you used to achieve their results would be VERY helpful. Please Help... ;(

    I have had a similar problem running my kt3 ultra2 (non raid) at 166 fsb. In mid april I bought a 2600+ 166 fsb athlon to upgrade my system from a 1.2 ghz athlon. I bought some new pc2700 crucial ram to go along with the processor. I had also recently bought a radeon 9700 pro in late march, and a 1.2 athlon would just be a waste of this great vid card. I had been running fine with the radeon and the 1.2 athlon with the msi 5.7 bios and 4.43 via 4-in-1's.
    I battled this problem for weeks. I bought a new antec 550 watt PSU, corsair xms 3200 ram, and new antec tower case trying to find out if the problem was ram, power or heat. I should also note that turning on spread spectrum helped a little in stability. Setting it to .50% made it stable in windows and games, but the computer would not turn on if shutdown unless I cleared the cmos. No setting besides this had any effect on stability. Even conservative ram timings. I was about to buy an Asus a7n8x when I realized that I had once run my old cpu and ram at 166 fsb when I had the 5.6 bios a couple of months back. I did not keep it like that in fear of damaging the ram while overclocked.
    So I reflashed to 5.6 which still supported the 2600+. That finally worked almost perfectly, although I still have to keep spread spectrum at .25% to be stable (which is odd, people say that is supposed to hurt stability). So in my situation, it was the bios that was faulty. I have had some very ramdom crashes to the desktop (3 of them) in games and one hardlock with a blank bluescreen in unreal2. This is over a span of a month. So it is not perfect. It might be the display drivers causing this, which I have recently upgraded, or I might need to back off my ram timings which are at 2-2-2-5 which this ram can handle easily at 166. 3dmark has yet to crash. Prime 95 passed when I ran it for 30 minutes. Im going to run prime 95 today and see if it will run for like 12 hours stable. Im still looking into getting a new nforce 2 mobo, however (abit or asus).
    I hope this helps your situation, you should give it a try. Although, the 5.6 bios does not support the 3000+. It might still work, it will maybe just not show up as a 3000+ in the bios, but as a 2.17 Athlon XP.
    I think MSI should be made aware of this possible 5.7 bios fsb instability. Why spread spectrum seems to be related in my situation, is really odd also.

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