Latency and Aggregate Devices

Hello. I'm using an aggregate device for the first time. I have a Line6 Toneport GX and a Presonus Firebox; I combined them into an aggregate device in Audio MIDI Setup and can access each interface in Express. Pretty cool.
However, latency seems to be an issue. For example, there is noticible latency when playing through the Toneport - to the point where I get thrown off while trying to play live. I disassembled a number of components and tried just the Toneport by itself and found the latency to be a non-issue.
Do aggregate devices introduce the latency of each interface? Does the fact that they're on different busses (one USB 1.1, the other FW400) contribute to my problem?
Is latency something that using a faster connection (say, the USB 2.0 on my laptop from work) would help correct? Finally, would the faster processor from my work machine solve this issue as well?
Thanks, all.
James DiStefano

USB 1.1 is slow. Many devices just wont work on it.
If you use just one device or the other do you get latency then?
It maybe that there is a bottleneck of data from the firewire port waiting for data from the USB going into the aggregate device. To be honest I don't know how the aggregate device works, but you definitely have 2 very different data transfer speeds into one device.
If the USB device, whichever it is, is USB 2 compatible, you can get a USB 2 pci card for about £15 UK, perhaps 20-30$ US with 4 or 5 USB 2 connections.
You are using basically the same setup as my previous machine (G4 1.25GHz dual). Installing the USB 2 card opened up a whole new world for that machine.

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I tried using a 6 to 9 pin firewire cable to connect the Motu Ultralite to it's own port on the Powerbook with the Motu 896 HD on the other firewire port. This didn't seem to make much difference. When I turn on 'System Performance' the Audio section runs about 90% and will often peak out.
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Glitch aggregate device

Hello
I'm having a problem on my macbook pro 15" 2.53 intel Unibody. I upgrade to 1.6.7. When I open any recording software and choose the audio device and aggregate device,(I use a Focusrite saffire pro 26 and saffire pro 40) after 3 or 4 minutes of use starting with glitches and disturção. Does anyone have the same problem? What is the solution of this bug? With version 1.6.3 did not have this problem.

Hi,
What exactly is your aggregate device ?
I have a Hollywood Dazzle DV Converter that connects over Firewire that is seen perfectly well in Panther, Tiger and Leopard and the relevant iChat versions.
8:31 PM Thursday; March 13, 2008

Combine Motu 24I/O and internal spdif with "aggregate device"

Hi,
i'm using locic pro 7 with a motu 24 i/o for recording e.g. vocals. To improve the quality i plan to buy "benchmark adc-1 converter, but there are no digital inputs on my motu. Can i combine the 24i/o with the internal spdif input? The motu runs at 64 samples without troubles. if i combine both via "aggregate device",what about latencies? is the latency of the motu as high as the internal spdif? Should i better buy a digital card (rme)? Does anyone know a good digital card (pcin and not too expensive)? Thanx a lot,
Oliver

Send Apple feedback. They won't answer, but at least will know there is a problem. If enough people send feedback, it may get the problem solved sooner.
Feedback
Or you can use your Apple ID to register with this site and go the Apple BugReporter. Supposedly you will get an answer if you submit feedback.
Feedback via Apple Developer

I cannot get MainStage 3 to find the Aggregate Device I am trying to use for input. I have two USB interfaces and need to use both for input.

The MainStage 3 Audio preferences window will not find the Aggregate Device input. I have both an Apogee Jam and a MOTU Mike Ultralight in USB ports. The Audio aggregator finds them and treats them as one device. The Aggregate Device does not show up in either Logic or MainStage. However, unlike Logic, MainStage does not show "System Settings" an input device.

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I have three Blue Yeti USB Microphones, and when I try to create an aggregate device in Audio MIDI on my MBP it lets me select two microphones but not the third. At first I thought maybe the third microphone was just defected or something but I tested the mic individually and it works fine. It'll let me use two Blue Yeti's and another microphone but not three Yeti's at once.

David Boroditsky wrote:
The problem is that the mac chokes on having 2 identical mics attached at the same time.
Ive had 2 identical USB AT2020 mics connected at the same time on both macbook pro and macbook Air.
The "Yeti" mics, are, lets say undesirable, and low to mid computer consumer mics.

I have 4 ricco md2 mini USB speakers and i can't get them to play at the same time. i have tried using the aggregate device feature but have had no luck. i can play each pair separately, but not together. what should i do?

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Aggregate device on the same firewire bus (fireface 800 and Lightbridge

Hi,
I'm trying to set up a aggregate device with my old RME Fireface 800 (on the firewire 400 bus) and this new M-Audio Lightbridge. But allthough I manage to create the device, there is no sound at all. The Fireface acts as digital master via a word clock cable. The Fireface are connected via a 10 m. cable to the rear connection (on my nes Mac Pro) and the Lightbridge are connected to the front. I know it's the same bus using those two connectors, so do you think a separate firewire board would be a solution?
Regards Stig

So the firewire "bus" and a firewire "interface" are the same thing then? Excuse my ignorance, I've just been put in the position that I needed to know this for the first time with this audio interface problem. The things I used my firewire ports for just worked without me having to learn much about it up until now. Also, I found some posts that the card had some issues functioning in a version of Leopard. I'm about to upgrade from Tiger (finally) directly to Snow Leopard. Do you (or anyone else who sees this) happen to know if there are any issues there? I appreciate the help very much Rod.

My audio aggregate device is not stable in Mountain Lion, it was fine before I upgraded from Snow Leopard - every time I reboot the computer it loses the configuration and so it is not available in Logic Pro

My audio aggregate device is not stable in Mountain Lion - it was fine before I upgraded from Snow Leopard. Every time I reboot the audio aggregate device (MOTU TRAVELER, MOTU PRE8 1, MOTU PRE8) has to be reconfigured so that it is available within Logic Pro.

Most likely you have Office 2004 which are PPC-only applications and will not work in Lion. Upgrade to Office 2011. Other alternatives are:
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Open Office (Office 2007-like suite compatible with OS X.)
NeoOffice (similar to Open Office.)
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Aggregate device using digital out and line out

I am trying to create an aggregate device using the digital out and the line out built into the mac pro. However, I only get sound from the device marked as the clock. Is it possible to aggregate these two outputs? or are they not compatible?

Hi CristianEC,
i think the error number was -200022, because the PFI lines for the two PWM counter look all your digital ports.
You can see this if you look on into the pinout for your device. You need an device with some additional digital ports.
best regards
Alexander Glasner
AE NIE

OS X 10.8 How do I add aggregate devices for multiple mics in GB and LP9

How do I create aggregate devices in Mountain Lion OS X 10.8? I'm using Garageband and Logic Pro 9 and want to record with multiple mics.

In Lion and Snow Leopard, aggregate audio devices are created in Audio Midi Setup.app. I'm not at my ML Mac right now, but I imagine it's the same. It's in the Utilities folder.
HTH.

Audio between Logic and Max with Aggregate Device Tutorial

Here is a link to my tutorial that shows how to create an Aggregate device and use it to send audio from Max to Logic and vice versa.
click the "logic help files" link at the top of this page:
http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner/
Hope this is helpful,
Mitch
http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner

Edgar rothermich let me know that he has written a great deal on the Aggregate Device:
quote======
For more in-depth explanation of the Aggregate Device settings and Audio Devices in general download my Personal Manual "Logic 7.2 Audio Devices"
The free pdf file is available on my website at:
http://homepage.mac.com/edgarrothermich/Manuals.html
======
Check our his Personal Manual for greater detail.
Mitch

Logic Mics, Aggregate Devices and The Input Issue

There is a lot of discussion about Logic's inability to accept simple microphone inputs, and I ran into this for two frustrating DAYS of trying all the things in the Logic Express 8 Docs to fix it—to no avail.
But now it is solved, so I'm trying to create a DEFINITIVE list of steps and principles here so others may quickly blast past this issue.
The equipment I have seems to be emblematic to the problem. The Blue Snowball is one of those USB mics that simply doesn't automatically show up in Logic's Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device list. The fix for this is never mentioned in the Logic manual or Getting Started docs that I can find. There is a passing reference on page 100 that is virtually zero help, and does not bother to mention how this Prime Gotcha can bring you to your knees.
Principle #1: Logic uses the Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device (list) process to identify which microphone you can record with. The list has to have in it an entry that makes sense for both the incoming audio and the playback path that Logic uses to feed earphones or an external monitor.
Normal items on that list look like this:
Built-in Output/Line Input
Built-in Output/Digital Input
Built-in Line Output/Input
Built-in Line Output/Digital Input
Built-in Digital Output/Line Input
Built-in Digital Output/Input
The Built-in Output is the computer’s inner speaker or headphones. The Built-in Line Output is the computers stereo jack for feeding to an amplifier. The Built-in Digital Output is the fiber optic feed that can also feed an amp with up to six parallel audio channels (okay, 5.1 channels).
Nothing on that list will show a fully functional USB microphone that is being viewed on the computer’s System Prefs > Sound > Input page, even though the metering dots there show that the computer sees a live, active microphone.
Selecting the Mic in the Sound prefs page does nothing to pass it on to the Logic > Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device list of selectable items. This is frustrating, since GarageBand sees the live mic without any problem, but GB is a simpler program that has fewer options while Logic has many other potentials, so a one-size-fits-all solution may not be its best default setting.
To get the mic into Logic, you have to go into the Audio MIDI Setup utility program where a peculiar option appears that is called “Aggregate Device”.
This keyword is not found in the Mac docs, and understanding it seems to be a big secret. Even the Audio MIDI Setup help page will show you how to find it, but not how it works or how to use it for Logic. Ahem.
You open Audio MIDI Setup and under its header bar Audio is only one item, sure enough, Open Aggregate Device Editor. That opens a window that has two sections, an upper window with Aggregate Devices / In / Out across its top, and a lower window that shows all the options that the computer is aware of. The lower window is called “Structure:” and columns show Clock / Use / Audio Device / In / Out / Resample.
A default item “Aggregate Device” shows in the top panel, and you can add others and double click on one to change its name. You can make many variations here.
By default these will be present:
Built-in Line Input
Built-in Digital Input
Built-in Output
Built-in Line Output
Built in Digital Output
At the bottom of this list any other audio input devices that are plugged into the computer should show up. If they can be seen in the System Prefs > Sound > Input page, they’ll be here, too.
When I plug my Blue Snowball USB mic into the computer, it shows up here as Blue Snowball.
You create an Aggregate Device by clicking on your sound source, in my case, the Blue Snowball, then adding one or more other options.
When you click the Use check box for any entry, it pops to the top of the list.
Principle #2: An Aggregate Device is used by Logic to “see” both an audio input and an audio output path at the same time. The Device you’re creating at this point must include an input Audio Device AND at least one Output item to be fully functional for Logic. A Help page in Audio MIDI Devices called “Combining multiple audio devices” explains this in bare bones, but you can’t see that help page unless the Audio MIDI Devices utility is open.
In my case, I’ve checked the Blue Snowball and Built-In Line Output, so I can use that combo in Logic to define where the mic is coming from and where the Logic audio output should go to my line-input amp and speakers.
In the Audio MIDI Setup utility, simply selecting the Blue Snowball as the “Default Input:” device and/or the “Properties For:” options shows that the Audio Output area of the page has this cryptic message: “Output is not supported.”
At this point, you’re almost ready to go, and you can close the Audio MIDI Setup utility. But there is at least one more “gotcha” to conquer.
Principle #3: Logic ONLY looks for its list of usable Core Audio Devices when it starts up. If you have it open right now, all the choices made for Aggregate Device will not show up as selectable. Save any work in Logic, shut it down, then boot it up again.
Now you can use Logic's Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device list to see your Aggregate Device. I’ve named mine “Snowy Line Out” to trigger my recognition of what it contains. Another one is called “Snowball + Line + Digital” and it has both line and digital outputs aggregated to the Snowball mic input.
You can make one in the Aggregate Device Editor that combines a microphone plus earphones (Built-in Output) plus Line and/or Digital Outs, too. You'll have to switch among them in Logic as you work, but each will carry the live mic direct to recording.
I hope this gets you through the frustration of not knowing what to do when confronted with the lack of clear docs and complete steps to get a USB mic or other seemingly opaque input issue. Feel free to add to this so others in my former state of bewilderment can gain understandings.
If Steve Jobs were to encounter the level of opacity, ambiguousness and frustration that setting up a simple USB microphone can create in Logic, you can bet that the several programs and their intimate interdependency would be either automated or fully explained in the documentations that followed his fiery analysis of the issue.

I don't know of another way to get the Blue Snowball USB mic to show up in Logic. If you can do it without having to go through the Aggregate Device route, feel free to post here how to get that to happen.
I didn't have a different mic available when I started trying to do what seemed to be the simplest of things -- record and play back an audio track -- and nothing else seemed to work.
There are a lot of Aggregate Device threads around here, many associated with Blue Snowball, Blue Snowflake and other things, but none of them laid out the principles of how Aggregate Device Setup needs to work or what to do to force it into compliance.
As I said, the clues in the Logic docs and in-mac docs are minimalist, at best, none of them bringing instant head slaps of success readily.

Static with Aggregate Device

Hello,
I'm using multiple USB mics through an aggregate device. This has worked fine for me with Garageband 3 and Tiger. But this week I upgraded to Snow Leopard. Now, after varying amounts of time, I get static and a bit of a delay while recording. I installed Garageband '11, but the issue is still there.
So far, I've only noticed it while using the aggregate device in Garageband. If I change the mic input and then go back to the aggregate device, the problem goes away (at least for awhile).
Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.

None of the questions sound stupid at all...
In your case there can be a couple of common problems that are tied together. Sync and latency.
I don't have GB11. I believe however, there are no longer buffer setting preferences for audio devices in GB11. ???
Previous versions allowed for minimum delay to deal with latency. So one could change the buffer settings. Which would be something I would have recommended trying if that is possible.
The Snowball is class-compliant. (driverless). But they are USB2.0 which should help over the Rock Band mics if they are USB1.
And while Apple's Aggregate Devices seem to work ok with devices not designed for sync.
The Snowball's may not work as expected. They may work fine...I can't say. If you read Blue's FAQ on the Snowball they more or less say the same thing.
My experience with aggregate devices is using three interfaces connected digitally via AES/EBU with console software to configure master/slave. No experience with USB mics or devices without word clock sync.
What I can say is, if you want to use 3 mic's simultaneously. There are certainly viable options available to you that may serve you better.
And as an aside there are USB mixers that are multichannel as well as two-channel.
And it is possible that an audio interface or a USB mixer for that matter may also suffer from latency issues. All interfaces have latency. Just like in the real world when your ear is far enough away from the source of a sound.
But most have good enough drivers or Core Audio implementation as to be difficult to discern. Still something to consider when looking for an interface.
But you won't have sync issues running 3 mic's into an interface.

I am trying to use 2 MOTU 896's as an aggregate device in Logic Pro 8

I am using Logic Pro 8 on a Macbook Pro OS 10.6.8. I am trying to use 2 MOTU 896's as an aggregate device to have total of 16 inputs. I am daisy chaining the 896's via firewire. I can select channels 1-16 as inputs in Logic. I am getting signal input in channels 1-8 in Logic. However, I am getting no signal input in channels 9-16. I've also tried using ADAT light pipe as output from the 2nd device to the 1st one and that didn't work either. I have created the aggregate device under audio-midi setups and I've set the 1st 896's clock source to internal and the 2nd 896's clock source as the 1st 896. I've also tried both 896's clock source as internal. Has anyone had any success in using 2 896's as an aggregate device in Logic Pro 8? I need to use this setup to record a large band. I would greatly appreciate any tips that anyone has. Thanks.

David,
Learning is not a bad thing, I'm just saying what you thought MIDI did is in error, you're not the first.
Here's an article explaining what MIDI is and how it works, it probably seems less than you thought it capable of but the fact is, since it's standardization in 1983 it completely revolutionized electronic music. By the Way, the designers of the Prophet 8 (Dave Smith & Sequential Circuits) had a lot of input into the MIDI protocol, in fact, if you had to say one company/person came up with the basics of MIDI it was Sequential Circuits. They also came up with the first polyphonic, fully programmable analog synth. I had a very basic MIDI studio at the end of 1984.
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/midi1.htm

Latency and Aggregate Devices

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