Layer group blending modes

There was some discussion about defaulting layer groups blending mode being normal by default instead of pass through. While I do use a lot of smart objects as "normal" containers (albeit mostly to filter rather than blend), I'm interested in techniques which would make normal a more useful default. Any thoughts?

OK... Here's my 2 cents. I use layer sets (layer groups) often in color correction work. Some times to get color where you want it, you may need to use 2 or 3 adjustment layers. For instance a Hue Saturation layer and a Curve layer. rather tan masking both of them, I put them into a layer set, and make one mask at the set level. This is helpful if later you need to extend the correction to include additional areas... all you need to do is modify one mask. In this situation, the layer set has to be set to pass through in order to affect pixels below it.
Now, lets say I grabbed a head from a different image, to add a person to the image I started with. If the head requires brightening and color adjustments to make it match the existing image, I find it a little neater to place the head layer in a layer set, then all the adjustment layers can go inside the set with it. But I need the blend mode of this set to be normal, so that the effects of the adjustment layers within it do not continue past the set level. Make sense?
I realize that you can link the adjustments to the layer you intend to affect, but I find the method I described to just be a little neater as far as layer management. AND if I then need to paint in hair for the head layer and paint in some eye enhancements, I can do each on its own layer inside the set. Sometimes I'll make the blend mode of the layer set for the head (just to stick with the same example) normal then put all my color adjustment layers inside a sub set with a blend mode of pass through. Then I can mask the CC layer set to only CC the eyes let's say, and I can mask the head layer set separately to blend it into the scene.
I hope all that helps. :^)

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Layer Group Channel blending, incorrect colors

Hello!
Wanted to bring up an issue that has troubled me in Photoshop for years, with the hope of it gaining some traction for fixing. For a while now (unsure which version), it was possible to set a Layer Group to filter/isolate a specific channel. This is a very useful feature for me, in creating channel masks for game assets and for use in real time shader techniques. However, it has a very large flaw that has made the feature largely unusable - and I'm surprised others have not had the issue as well as it should affect print as well (if in a lesser effect).
When you use this feature, and essentially mask the contents of a layer to the Red, Green, or Blue channels, the layers in those Groups are still hit by color management, which results in the pixels drawing and blending incorrect colors. an example:
In the first file, each group is set to blend to a specific channel, and a black to white gradient is applied in that layer.
In the second file, those same layers are copied and pasted into the channels of a new RGB document. The file already looks very different.
Finally, in the 3rd file the two layers are compared using the Difference blend mode. Can observe the difference between the two layers here, which is a result of the first method (Layer Grouping) not blending the pixels properly as if they were a channel - which when using the R/G/B blend masking on Group Properties, is what should be expected.
When i use this technique of pushing certain black and white images into a channel, they are made for a specific purpose and function. Since the layer group blending alters what the values of those pixels are (very important for real time shader creation) in the final file, it makes this amazingly useful feature unusable. I would LOVE to be able to have Layer Group channel blending be a part of my workflow, instead of constantly copying and pasting into channels. I have created various scripts to save these types of files out easier, but i could greatly simplify them by being able to save this 'RGB Mask' file directly from my PSD.
Wanted to share and start a discussion about it, to see if it would be possible to get a fix for this in the future!
thanks!
Maury

don't generally like to bump threads, but bumping for some visibility and maybe some insight?

Why is a layer blending mode result altered by adding and effect?

I've done a search online and haven't come up with an answer but does anyone
know why a layers blending mode result is altered by adding an effect?
I am using CS3 on a PC (Windows XP SP2) and have two layers; one a Tiff and
a second a text layer with an ambient light and a spot shining on them. Both
layers have 3D turned on and accept lights and are in the same position in
space.
To make the text, which is coloured black, sit better I changed the layers
blend mode to soft light which works well.
I wanted to soften the edge of the text a little so I added a Fast Blur
effect and suddenly the result of the blend was completely different. If I
turn off the effect it goes back to what it was before but even if the Fast
Blur is set to zero, ie no blur on the layer, the blend result is altered.
Does anyone know what's going on?

Many thanks for that. I tried the Box Blur but it too shifted the result of the blend. In the end, to get this job out of the door, I changed the colour of the text to orange, lowered the opacity and used Multiply as the layer blend mode. Adding the Fast Blur effect to this didn't shift the result of the blend mode. It's not as sexy a look as using Soft Light but it works. I wonder if it's something going on with the maths or this a real bug? <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected].. > Presumably a bug that uses the blur's convolution kernel when it > shoulddn't. Please report at <a href=http://www.adobe.com/go/wish>. Still, > sometimes changing the blend behavior is inevitable. Even if the layers > visually look the same, the actual pixel values may change and thus create > a different result in the blend formulas. That should not be the case > here, though. Replace the Fast Blur with Box Blur set to 8 or 9 iterations > and the result should look the same, but without the blending problem, I > guess. > > Mylenium

Flattening Blend Mode/Layer Effects CS4

Greetings,
Working in PS CS4 Mac 10.6
CMYK document with a simple image layer with Drop Shadow layer effect and blend mode: Overlay.
I can't get the layer to flatten! When I try to flatten, it ends up looking like the original layer without blend mode or drop shadow.
I'm using the method of creating a new empty layer above image layer and merging the two together.
Is this unique to CMYK mode? (I usually work in RGB mode.)
Any suggestions?
Thanks!

an additional layer with a stroke
Are you sure they want a stroke and not a Path?
Hard Light seems to be pretty much the opposite of Overlay, so you could try
• duplicating the background Layer,
• setting it to Hard Light,
• Clipping Masking it so the the Layer in question and
• setting that to Normal –
that should then be able to be merged.
The Drop Shadow however would of course lose its Blending Mode if it is merged to the Layer.

How do I copy a layer but have the blending mode reset to normal?

I'm going to try and word this as best as I possibly can lol. I edited a layer with a blending mode and want to copy the layer but have the layer's blending mode go back to normal so that I can edit it again with a different blending mode.
Does anyone know how I could achieve this? Any help would be much appreciated!

Here's the best way: make an action!: Open up your actions panel and create a new action- assign it to a key (f2)>> Make sure your layer is on any blending mode.>>Create a copy of the layer>> change blending mode to normal>> hit stop on action.
Now you have your own action that will always copy whatever layer is selected and change the blending mode to normal!

Learning blending modes

I've learned most of what I know about PSE from a certain magazine from England. But in their step by step instructions, you are told to use this or that blending mode, but not why.
Are there any threads on here that expalin what the different modes do and when to use what? I've tried to do search but didn't work.
Thanks
Ricih

http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/blend1/blend1.htm
The above is a set of tutorials that includes tables listing practical uses of blend modes for photographers.
His examples are done using photoshop but the blend modes are the same in both Photoshop and Photoshop Elements. Layer masking is used to constrain the blend mode effects to portions of the photos. With elements, you will need to use an adjustment layer so you can hijack the mask. If you are just going to blend the image with itself, create a levels adjustment layer...leave it at the default setting and click ok to accept. Adjust the levels adjustment layer's blend mode and opacity if desired. This will act just as if you were working on a duplicate of the image...and you have a mask.
If blending two different images, use a clipping mask/group. Here's a link on info about using clipping masks/clipping groups...same thing different name.
http://www.photokaboom.com/photography/learn/Photoshop_Elements/layers/layer_groups_clippi ng_masks/1_layer_groups_clipping_masks.htm
Other tutorials that cover blend modes...
http://www.northlite.net/ps/blend.htm
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/layer-blend-modes/
http://www.photoshoptut.com/photoshops-blend-modes/
http://www.psdtop.com/blog/basic/understanding-blending-modes/
Still one more...don't read #20 as it covers advanced masking (Blend If) that isn't available in Photoshop Elements.
http://www.teamphotoshop.com/articles-The-Techniques-Layer-Blend-Modes-Explained!-5,8,65a. html
Edit: That last link you'll have to copy and paste it into your browser to get it to work. It's not linking correctly.

In Elements 5 I can no longer drop down menu for Blending modes

Hi
Something has broken my Elements 5 or is it me? I load a Jpeg make a copy, click on copy layer the blending mode writing goes from greyed out to normal. If I now click on the blending mode menu to drop it down or darken it so I can use the up/down keys to change modes nothing happens. I'm using Vista all updated and Elements 5.0.2. Tried repairing it to no avail. Any Ideas? Cheers Terry

Hi Trish, Thanks for your help. I tried what you said and it worked but if I then reload the program without pressing ctrl-alt-shift (so it now reads in the new Prefs file which it produced when it closed down) it's doesn't work again. I downloaded a trial of Elements 7 and that work OK and if I click on the Elements 5 prefs.psp Elements 7 loads and works OK as well. So I'm flommaxed as to what is happening. I reckon some update of Windows has broken it. Looks like I'll have to upgrade. Cheers Terry

Blending mode not looking correct

Hey all. I'm using Photoshop CS6 on a Mac (OS X 10.8.2), and I've run into a wierd problem I've never seen before. I'm creating a seperate layer over a photo, and filling that layer with 50% gray. I then set that layer's blending mode to Overlay. When things are working correctly (and they always have in the past) setting the 50% gray layer to Overlay should render that layer invisible, and it should have no visual effect on the photo underneath. Suddenly this is not the case, and it looks like the grayscale in the photo beneath the gray layer is much brighter. What's really weird is that I tried to recreate this problem on a couple of other pic files, and the Overlay blending mode works fine there! So the problem seems to be only with this one file. Changing the file from CMYK to RGB seems to lessen the effect, but it's still present. I'm sure I'm missing something, but I'm totally stumped. Any help or ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Well, here's a screenshot of my layers pallette, if that's any help. I'd be glad up upload any other setting shot that would help. Thank you.

Changing from "Pass Through" as Default in Blend Mode in a Group Folder Layer Set

Hello Forum gurus!
Using a MacBook Pro, 10.5.4. Painting with CS2. My question is two-fold.
When the Group layer folder in a layer set is selected, it is displaying the "Pass Through" blend mode by default. Is there a special convenience to this? (Best use for pass through blend mode)
Also, How may I change the default in this mode to be "Normal" as the setting when creating a Group folder layer set?
Thanks!!
Colene

Matthias, now I understand. We're both right from different perspectives. If you want the adjustment layer (should there be one within the group) to affect all layers below the group (perhaps because that's the way the image looked before you made the group in the first place), then Pass Through is your blend mode. If you want that adjustment layer to affect only those layers within the group (which I often do), then Normal (or some other) is your blend mode.

Group blend = layer blend ?

I have a very strange case, which I think is theoretically impossible ... (headscratching):
I have "group1" and inside that group, only one layer: "layer1". The blending mode for "group1" is vivid light and for "layer1" it's "normal".
Now, if I change "group1" to "pass through" and "layer1" to "vivid light" ... the result is completely different, while it should be the same, shouldn't it?
How is that possible ?!?

Ok, sorry for misinterpreting you then, I thought that was what you meant when saying: "layer groups when you apply a blend mode to them take their VISIBLE contents and apply the mode to the whole area, so its similar to applying a neutral 50% grey behind transparent pixels."
So if that's not what you meant, than I'm basically back at square one and don't know at all,
HOW you explain what accounts for the different blending results of a layer vs. of a group.
All livedocs has to say on this is:
" By default, the blending mode of a layer group is Pass Through, which means that the group has no blending properties of its own. When you choose a different blending mode for a group, you effectively change the order in which the image components are put together. All of the layers in the group are put together first.
The composite group is then treated as a single image and blended with the rest of the image using the selected blending mode. Thus, if you choose a blending mode other than Pass Through for the group, none of the adjustment layers or layer blending modes inside the group will apply to layers outside the group."
I couldn't find any other "official" definitions of the way groups affect blending.
According to this definition, all that a group actually changes is the interaction
between more than one layer inside a group.("...is then treated as a single image..."). So basically, for a single layer, there shouldn't be any difference at all between my two screenshots above. They should blend the same. A different result is against livedoc's definition.
What I meant with my last paragraph is that the "blend layer" used in my example above contains no (or almost no) 100% opaque pixels. So it's a particular case and thus maybe not the best starting point for evaluating basic rules. That's why I suggested to just use a white text layer instead (which has 100% opaque pixels).
Try the same thing as above: Cycle through all the blending modes for the layer. Then put the layer inside a group and cycle through the group's blending modes. You'll see, the results are not the same, and again, that's against the abovementioned definition.
There must be other rules in play as well here. I did an extensive Internet search, but couldn't find any other rules, that would explain the results.

Has anyone ever encountered layer blend modes behaving strangely?

I use photoshop quite a bit for retouching and photo compositing. Tonight I encountered a strange problem. I was trying to create a vintage look on a photo and had a number of adjustment layers including a curves, levels, color fill and there were also a few texture/noise layers all set to varying opacities. Near the top of all this I had a vignette layer that was black around the edges and white in the center set to blend mode of multiply. Well, when I was clicking on and off I realize that that vignette layer was definitely lightening the center part of the overall image quite a bit (the part that is white on the vignette layer), almost like a screen. So I flipped the vignette layer through different opacity modes and saw that there was no change in its behavior, every mode was screening the white, even darker color and multiply. I thought maybe it was interacting in a weird way with one of the other layers so I turned all the others off except the back ground-- still no change. Then I dropped the layer down one at time until it was below the background. When I started to move it up again, it was behaving normally for a moment until I moved it up a couple levels in the stacking order and then it went back to the screen behavior. Anyway I shuffled it around a bit but there was no consitency to when it would display the correct opacity and when it wouldn't, so it did not seem to be an interaction with any specific layer. I don't know, but I can't really think of any case where white set to multiply should produce a lighter result even if it were interacting with another opacity. In any case it does seem to me that there is something going on with the overall computation of opacities. I tried creating a new black and white layer and it was also doing the same thing, behaving strange and not displaying the correct opacity.
I'm tired, so I'm going to bed. I'm going to shut off the computer and hope this goes away when I reboot, but if it does not, does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm not a regular visitor to this forum, but I thought I'd put it out there in case anyone else has experienced anything like this. I've only got 5 gigs of ram on this computer and I've been working away for a while... maybe photoshop just couldn't keep up(?) I'm using Photoshop CS5, RGB Adobe 1998 colorspace. I've never had anything like this happen in the last 11 years I've been using photoshop. Hmmm.... hope I don't have to reinstall or call support or worse. fingers crossed.

Nevermind. It is still having the problem. I have to think that this file is just corrupt somehow because I just opened another file and can't seem to cause the same problem. Basically, I can fill a layer with white, put it to a blend mode of multiply or darker color and it will block out everything of the image below, ie totally opaque. The opaqueness varies depending on the if there are other layers also on blend modes, but it does not seem to correspond to normal blend mode interaction. If I put it right on top of a regular layer with an image on it, it totally blocks it out on a blend mode of multiply... weird. I am going to scrap this file and see if the problem recurs in other files. My 2006 Mac Pro is getting some years on it and has been running pretty slow. I'm not a hardware expert but I've done everything I know how to do to maintain it. Was thinking of upping the ram to see if I can hold out a bit longer before I upgrade the computer. Wouldn't surprise me if this problem is related to the computer.

How do I mask a path with a blending mode so that if only effects the groups below?

I am working on a logo but have run into what seems like a simple problem but nothing about masks that I have found seems to work. I have
two groups and in one of them I have a path with an overlay blending mode. Above both groups I have the same path with the same blending mode. (I have used two as I wanted a stronger effect on the lower group)
Here is the project against white:
As you can see the logo itself looks fine and I thought it was ready to use.
However upon exporting it I noticed that the layers with opacity that where invisable agaist the white where now visable. I ussumed this would eb a simple fix as I am used to this problem with After Effects. Illistrator is not my forte and I am not used to how the masks work.
After two hours of messing around and searching on the internet for answers I have given up. This must be a common thing to pop up but I couldn't find the answer so here I am. Please can someone help me remove the unwanted white circles.
Thanks,
Ben.

Thank you for replying Monika,
I have copied the Paths but dont understand what you mean by expand the 3D effect. With the text I was able to click ungroup and edit the individual sides. I am unable to do this with the logo, I dont know exactly why. Also when I combine all my paths they just go into one group. You will have to excuse me, I still have a lot to learn.
Thanks,
Ben.

Can I sample a layer's "true" color despite its opacity and blend mode?

I'm doing some painting with a lot of layers set to different blend modes. I find that every time I want to paint on one of these layers, I have to go to that layer, set the opacity back to 100, change the blend mode back to "normal" sample the color, then change everything back and continue painting. I realize I can save a swatch for the color, but it can get confusing when you're using subtle color differences on multiple layers. It seems like there should be a modifier key to the tool that samples the layers "true" color discarding opacity and blend mode. Does this exist? Thanks!

Perfect! This is exactly what I'm looking for chris....I don't suppose there's any way to toggle the tool's "current layer/all layers" functionality on the fly so i don't have to go to the tool and select which mode I"m in each time is there? I usually access this tool by just hitting "option" while using a brush. Would be cool if i could set "Option + shift" to use the eyedropper in "current layer" mode. Thanks for the speedy reply!

I can't set a layer blend mode to "Screen"

Hello, I'm new to Photoshop as of an hour ago (I've been using GIMP for 2 years).
I have a layer selected and I want to set the blend mode to "screen". However, the screen mode as well as several others are greyed out and won't let me select them. I'm using Windows 8 Home Premium 64 bit, and Photoshop CS6 Extended (Trial) 64 bit. I'm intending to get Adobe Creative Cloud tomorrow, but is the reason for this that I'm using the trial version? If not, what am I doing wrong? There is a screenshot below to show what I am talking about. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b504/thomasbowe34/ps_zpsc5e055f5.png

Took me a few second to figure out whats wrong. But the answer is, you're in the 32 bit mode. Changing the mode to 16 or 8 { (Image>Mode>8Bits/Channel) or (Image>Mode>16Bits/Channel) } will make it available.

History Panel Option to ignore Layer Blend Mode Changes

Using shift+plus and minus keys to see various layer blend modes eats up my History. Not quite sure why it even records... you can't use the History Brush to "blend" previous blend modes. And it is not difficult to go back to a previous blend mode. I'd like to see a History Option to ignore Layer Blend Mode Changes, like you have for Layer Visibility Changes.

OK. Changes in the Blending Dialog don't record in History until committed.Thanks!
But I don't see a way to quickly go through the various Blend Modes like you can with Shift+ plus/minus keys. I really like that keyboard method to rapidly view and compare various Blend Modes.

Layer group blending modes

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