Logic Adaptive Limiter OptFit / NoOver

Hello
Logic 6.3 /Pro
When you switch the adaptive limter plugin from editor mode to slider mode you get one more option to choose from: "OptFit" and "NoOver". What is the difference ?
And why does the adaptive limiter produce "overs" when the out ceiling is set to 0,0 ? The Master channel doesn't show "overs."
Thanks for answering. J.

What Jord said, and…
Apparently there are differences in the AdLimiter versions. 7+ has three control options - DC -Yes, Lookahead (100ms for me) and NoOvers.
If you play through your material, the input side should never go over. Adjust it as high as possible, but never over. Output I usually set to -0.3
Now use the gain to set the amount of peak control and perceived volume. Each source material will be different. Experiment - judiciously. For me, I find it introduces some nice analog-type warmth and fullness, but it can destroy the dynamics of a track if used with a heavy hand.
For me NoOvers works 100% of the time. It's a brickwall. Maybe earlier versions had a bug?

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Adaptive Limiter Clipping

Why does the Adaptive Limiter clip if the gain is under 6.1?
15" PowerBook G4 1.25GHZ; 2GB RAM; 80GB 5400rpm; OWC 250GB (2) Mac OS X (10.4.9) Logic Pro 7.2.3; Edirol FA-101; Roland GI-20; Korg Kontrol49; Mackies HR624

Here is the setting procedure outlined in the manual....
In order to use AL properly, you need to Start the process by adjusting the Input Scale,
just as you would set a mixing desk’s Gain parameter,
or a digital recorder’s recording level.
The parameter behaves much like a Gain control,
but its purpose is to adjust the input level,
which must never exceed 0 dBFS.
Adjust the Gain parameter to musically control the internal process of peak
smoothing and gain increase.
Out Ceiling reduces the output level of the process in very fine steps within a range of
only 2 dB. This is no threshold control, just a simple output gain.
The Mode menu in the Adaptive Limiter’s Controls view allows you to choose between
two different forms of peak smoothing. If you choose:
• OptFit, the signal will be limited by following a linear curve. This form of peak
smoothing allows signal peaks that exceed 0 dB.
• NoOver ensures that the signal never surpasses 0 dB, avoiding distortion artefacts.
Remove DC (Controls view) activates a highpass filter that removes direct current from
the signal. When using poorly constructed audio hardware, direct current (DC) can be
undesirably layered over the audio signal.

Undocumented Adaptive Limiter settings??

The Adaptive Limiter has a menu on the left side of its Editor interface for whose contents I can find no documentation in the Plugins Reference Manual. (The screenshot of the Adaptive Limiter in the Plugin Reference Manual does not show this menu - - as it cuts off the top of the interface.)
Some of the choices are "Add Density," Average Limit," "Overdrive Limit," "Pressure Limit," "Soft Limit." I would be most appreciative if someone would explain what these various settings do. Thanks very much.

They're just presets - suggestions, or starting points - for you to experiment with. Just like any other Logic plug presets.
Actually, they're pretty worthless, as the whole point of Adaptive limiter is to finely tweak it to match your material. This requires getting the input and output controls, scale and ceiling exactly right.
More important is the "hidden" items in the controls view. As with many Logic plugs, those items preceeded by a "•" are not in the editor view. In this case, lookahead, DC offset and most importantly mode, which for the purpose of this plug should be "NoOver"
Hope this helps.

How do I use Adaptive Limiter to make sure bounces are same volume?

Hi,
I've been making ear training exercises for myself - you can understand what here:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=490846&tstart=0
Here's what I need to do - and don't know how:
I want all bounced exercises to play at the same volume.
Each exercise has two MIDI regions. The first region (Region #1) plays at the begining of all exercises. When I look at the Output track when Region #1 plays, it is at 0.2 DB - no clipping. However, Region #2 clips in varying degrees depending on what octave an interval is being played at. For instance, a C and E played together around C1 doesn't clip - but transposed to C5 or C6 it clips anywhere from 3.7 to 4.6. I can't just lower the output volume before it clips - because it's important the Region #1 stays the same volume-wise on all of the exercises.
Some people have said just add an adaptive limiter to the Output 1-2 track... but how do I set it?
Any suggestions? Anyone understand this?? It's hard to explain on this end...
Thanks.

you don't use adaptive limiter to make sure bounces are the same volume.
that is not the function of the adaptive limiter.
the limiter puts a ceiling on the signal and optionally raises the gain. You'd use this on certain instruments that are known to produce loud peaks, such as Bass Guitar and Vocal,
It is used as the last plugin in the chain on the master fader when mixing something down, to prevent the mix from peaking.
IMO, the logic limiter doesn't destroy anything unless the mix itself has something wrong with it.
A lot of people reach for limiter when what their ears are really looking for is to multiband compress.
Your solution is to use a COMPRESSOR (not the multiband compressor, just the simple Logic compressor).
Do NOT use the default setting of the logic compressor in your case, because it defaults with its 'auto Gain' turned on which will raise your volume (a lot).
Put a compressor as the first plugin in all of your piano channels, or into a Bus, and set all your piano tracks to output to the bus with the compessor on it.
Settings:
THRESHOLD : -10
ATTACK : 0 (play with it, pianos feel good with a low one,
could try 15ms or less)
DECAY : play with it, I'd use 50ms with a Piano track
AUTO GAIN : off
GAIN : +4
RATIO : try 12.0
This setting will attenuate anything above -10 and will raise the gain up to a healthy level to compensate.
Anything below -10 won't be touched.
Since the compressor will 'squash' your signal slightly,
some frequencies will appear louder to the ear after the piano is compressed. So just AFTER the compressor on the same track, put a Logic Channel EQ and conservatively pull down some of the freq ranges to bring them back to normal.
And that's it.
a tip: When working in logic, no matter what the project, when it's time to mixdown put a COMPRESSOR on every single channel as the first plugin. Then play with plugins, etc.
I do have many issues with Logic's workflow, but the dynamics plugins IMO are very good.

Adaptive limiter error

when i do works with multi timbre instruments (ultrabeat and etc.), i can't use Adlim (Adaptive limiter) because terrible ratency's coming up. the beat played so weird.
Does anyone have the same problem?
i use logic pro x 10.0.6

Yes. Unfortunately. I use the normal Limiter, which does a good job with this new ISP mode. Worth a try.
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2 Adaptive Limiter in series circuit - do they work properly that way?

A few days ago, I noticed that the Adaptive Limiter plugin does crazy
things. Thats the setup I used:
A:
- audio channel with audio file with full volume level range (0dB)
- channel volume set 0dB
- Adaptive Limiter included, all controller set 0db, only out-celling set -2dB
B:
- stereo output with channel volume set 0dB
- Adaptive Limiter included, all controller set 0db, only out-celling set -0.5dB
The audio material in A is limited by the Adaptive Limiter to -2dB and routed to B.
If I play the audio file from A, by switching the Adaptive Limiter in stereo output to "bypass", the maximum stereo output volume level remains -2dB.
If I play the audio file from A while all Adaptive Limiter are activated (in A and B), the maximum stereo output volume level is -0.5dB.
Only by switching the stereo output limiter to "bypass", the stereo output volume level remains -2dB.
How could it be that the Adaptive Limiter in B raises the volume level of A (-2dB) to -0.5dB that way? do they work properly that way?
Signalfloh

If I understand it all correctly, the Out Ceiling parameter seems to work as an expander ? Even if you throw -2dB at it, the second one pulls it up to -0.5?
I wouldn't have expected that, no, I thought it was just a brickwall setting, especially with the word "ceiling" used. From what I understand of your setup it seems to work like some sort of normalisation.
Why have you created this setup? Just to test? And, more importantly, what kind of audio did you throw at it? A test tone, or a (musical) track with (wide) dynamics?
And why do you say it does "crazy" things? You can only conclude that if you somehow know how it is supposed to work, right? I'm surprised at what (you describe) happens, I think it is unexpected, but not necessarily "crazy".
To really observe this from all angles, I think you need to insert three level meters: one as the very first plugin (before any AL), one after the first and before the 2nd AL and one after the second. LM>AL>LM>AL>LM

Hello. I am having much difficulty using any software drum program. I am trying to use EZ Drummer and the drum programs in Logic, with limited success. I was using them, and they were working, but this is no longer the case. Please help me navigate my way

Hello.
I am having much difficulty using any software drum program. I am trying to use EZ Drummer and the drum programs in Logic, with limited success. I was using them, and they were working, but this is no longer the case. Please help me navigate my way through these issues, if possible.
Thanks.
Eric

Aha! I have sorted it.
For those with similar problems, the solution is this:
Macintosh HD > Library > Audio > MIDI Drivers
Then delete DigiDioMidiDriver.plugin

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but if i've inserted a limiter with output max 0db at the end of the signal chain (no other plug ins) why should my master fader clip to levels +2 etc? the master fader is at the end of the signal chain no, so should limit it to 0db?
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New Intersample clipping feature does not allow get enough rms level, if you shut it down, Out ceiling is dead.

Ed Egned wrote:
Question is not about what you like, or how pleasant it is.
Au contraire, mon ami, the ONLY question is what it sounds like - this is not scientific equipment, it is ARTISTIC equipment.
As you can see, in left picture I can't get RMS more than ~ -12 with max settings ( intersample clipping on), in right it works as expected, but Out ceiling is dead and output is overloaded ( intersample clipping off). Of course, both inputs are same ( pink noise) . On my system it is broken, can anybody confirm that ? This is not normal brickwall limiter anymore and yes, I prefer, let it be my choice, what RMS get on final product.
1. Your choice? And what would change if I "forbade" it? What if you told me to do or not do something? O wait, you just did: you told me to "let it be your choice". Well, it's my choice to not respect other peoples' silly choices. Etcetera. Futile point.
2. Your test? With pink noise? It is an Adaptive Limiter, NOT a brickwall limiter, and pink noise at +12 dB Adaptive gain, well, I'm no audio-engineer, but obviously neither are you. That's just a test.
I don't think the Adaptive Limiter is broken.

Some DISTORTION using Adaptive Limiter

Hi there,
Wierd! Master Sound like Distortion when apply Adaptive Limiter!
AL apply after Multipressor! E'thing below Overload Peak level.. Gain Level upto 9 to get the level as loud as commercial standard!
What's wrong do u suspected on my case?

You really add 9 dB using AdL? That is too much, try to keep it under 6 dB somehow... Even better (imho) is 'my' rule of thumb: if you 'need' to add more than 3 dB, something's not quite right yet in the mix...
Alternative: assign drums and bass tracks (+rythm section, add to taste) to it's own aux, compress/adlimit that with some/much force, and make the final master compression much subtler (add perhaps only 2 dB or less with adlimiter or similar loudness maximizer plugin.)
The distortion could also come from the combination - how does it sound when you bypass MP? And how does MP sound on its' own?
regards, Erik.

Limiter/adaptive limiter output, still clipped

hey ppl,
I am trying to push up the gain of a track using the limiter or adaptive limiter. despite setting the output max at 0db the track still clips in the channel strip meter. the audio itself was not recorded clipped and the limiter is the only thing in the signal chain....
the only thing I can think of is that the limiter takes a bit of time to kick in so misses the initial clip at the start of a peak. but doesn't that defeat the purpose of a limiter?
any ideas?
thanks

but if i've inserted a limiter with output max 0db at the end of the signal chain (no other plug ins) why should my master fader clip to levels +2 etc? the master fader is at the end of the signal chain no, so should limit it to 0db?
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Logic Adaptive Limiter OptFit / NoOver

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