Message split to 2 differenet IDOCs

Hi,
I'm configuring scenario where I split incoming XML message, each row(JDBC sender), to IDOCs. Depending on some tags, it can be IDOC1 or IDOC2. Occurencess are:
In_Msg 1
IDOC1 0..unbounded
IDOC2 0..unbounded
I have done all mappings and configurations, but I'm getting only one IDOC1 and IDOC2, the last messege,
obviosly, I'm loosing some data after transformation. I'm using BPM because of XI is on SPS11.
In BPM i have:
1. receive step
2. transformation
3. fork
           3.a receiver determination and send step for IDOC1
           4.b receiver determination and send step for IDOC2.
how to solve this problem?

Hi,
- create a BPM where you receive your JDBC message in JDBC container
-  a fork with 2 success branches
- each branch has a mapping for the certain IDoc, no Messages root tag, just the IDoc root element
- and a send step for each IDoc
- depending on your requirements exception handling
If you need to create either IDoc1 or IDoc2 BPM is not required, you could do that by condition in Interface Determination.
Regards,
Udo

Similar Messages

  • Message Split: File to Multiple IDOC Types

    Hi,
    I'm attempting to perform a multi-mapping using BPM where I have File -> XI -> IDOC.
    The result will be 3 DIFFERENT IDOC types, but depending on the payload of the file, not all will be created. I have followed the steps in this weblog: https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/2748. [original link is broken] [original link is broken] [original link is broken] [original link is broken]
    This works fine as long as all 3 messages are being created, however if only 2 of 3 IDOCs are to be created, I receive an error in the PE.
    I have set the occurances of the target messages as 0...1 in the Message and Interface Mappings.
    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    ><i>This works fine as long as all 3 messages are being created, however if only 2 of 3 IDOCs are to be created, I receive an error in the PE.</i>
    Just noticed this
    The reason is when you have a 1:N mapping inside the BPM, all messages need to be compulsorily be created. If you have 3 messages in the target side all 3 messages / idoc's need to be created as the output of your multimapping.
    As a workaround, if the condition which you want to check does not exist and you do not want the idoc to be created, in the mappingcreate the idoc, use some dummy flag and then use a switch in the BPm to decide if the idoc is to be sent to the target system or not.
    Regards
    Bhavesh

  • Idoc(receiver) message splitting using BPM

    Hi,
    could you provide some blogs which is useful for Idoc (as a Receiver) message splitting (1:N scenario) using BPM.
    I have gone thru some of the Blogs, i didn't find good one according to this scenario.
    Thanks
    Praba

    Hi Michal,
    Thanks for ur reply.
    You said " if you have one message and want to have multiple IDOCs
    there is no need for a BPM -
    you just need to change IDOC occurance - that's all"
    I agree to your point.
    My scenario is more or less same but "With single message , i need to generate multiple Idocs" based on synchronous proxy response from R3. That is the reason we already gone with BPM.
    Already i used the BPM in my interface due to req.  It was working. Earlier i was posting single Idoc to R3 with multiple Header segment (each Header segment has one quantity)
    Now due to req. change, for each single quantity (quantity is my source Message Type field), i need to post single Idoc to R3  if i get response from R3.
    My XI version PI 7.0 SP14
    Idoc structure:
       <xsd:attribute name="SEGMENT" type="xsd:string" fixed="1" use="required"
    xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" />
       </xsd:complexType>
    - <xsd:complexType name="WPUWBW.WPUWBW01";>
    - <xsd:annotation>
       <xsd:documentation>POS interface: Upload goods movements</xsd:documentation>
       </xsd:annotation>
    - <xsd:sequence>
      <xsd:element name="EDI_DC40" type="EDI_DC40.WPUWBW.WPUWBW01"; />
       <xsd:element name="E1WPG01" type="WPUWBW01.E1WPG01"; minOccurs="0"
       maxOccurs="9999999999" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" />
       </xsd:sequence>
       <xsd:attribute name="BEGIN" type="xsd:string" fixed="1" use="required"
    xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" />
       </xsd:complexType>
       </xsd:schema>
    Already I am using this Idoc structure in various interfaces also. If i edit the occurance of the this Idoc and import in External definition with same name, I feel it afffect mapping in other interfaces also.
    Inputs are highly appreciated.
    Edited by: Prabaharan Rangasamy on May 22, 2009 4:14 PM

  • Message Split -- File to Idoc Scenario  -  ( Without BPM )

    I have multiple records coming to XI in a File and I have to create Multiple Idocs to R/3.
    Due to Complexity of mapping I'm splitting Maaping step into 2 message Mappings.
    A-->B
    B-->C
    In the 2nd Mapping step  I'm doing message Split meaning for each Source record I'm creating multiple Idocs ( To be precise each record on the source becomes 4 idocs in the Target.
    2nd Mapping step is as follows
    Source 1..1
      Sourcerecord 0.. Unbounded
        field1  0..1
        field2  0..1
        filed3  0..1
    Target
    Message 1
        Idoc   1.. Unbounded
          Idoc Structure..
    Message 2
          Idoc   1.. Unbounded
    Message 3
          Idoc   1.. Unbounded
    Message 4
          Idoc   1.. Unbounded
    So based on some criteria each record of Source will be mapped to 4 Messages (  1 each under each Message )
    Is it possible to do this without BPM?. Iam sending all these Idocs to same R/3 System.
    Thanks for any help..RK

    Hi,
    See the blog
    /people/michal.krawczyk2/blog/2005/12/04/xi-idoc-bundling--the-trick-with-the-occurance-change
    <i>Basicly we have 2 ways of handling such scenarios:
    - we can use a block step and send multiple IDOCs from our BPM
    - we can also do a little trick and send multiple IDOCs from the XI without a BPM
    The first approach is a standard XI approach. It involves the use of a BPM
    so the speed of this transfer many not be very good in case you'd like to send
    hundreds or thousands of IDOCs in just one call.
    The second approach uses a little trick that was mentioned several times
    on the XI Froum by a number of XI developers but is still not very clear to the XI newbies.
    It allows us to send multiple IDOCs without the use of a BPM. Most probably this will be your choice
    if you'd like to use such 1:N (IDOCs) scenarios effectively.</i>
    Please see the bwlow threads also..
    IDOC Splitting
    File To IDOC Thru XI
    Multi-Mappings in BPM (XI 3.0)
    Please let me know , your prob..is solcev or not..
    Regards
    Chilla..

  • Message split - XML to IDOCs - (1:n) mapping

    I have to split an incoming XML(in idoc DEBMDM format) from MDM to 2 Idocs (ADRMAS & DEBMAS).
    Target message set to occurences "0:unb".
    Have tested my graphical-mapping in IR and its working fine. Tested the configuration and got error in IB.
    In SXMB_MONI i find the error message,
    - <SAP:Error xmlns:SAP="http://sap.com/xi/XI/Message/30" xmlns:SOAP="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" SOAP:mustUnderstand="">
      <SAP:Category>XIServer</SAP:Category>
      <SAP:Code area="OUTBINDING">CO_TXT_MMF_ENGINETYPE</SAP:Code>
      <SAP:P1 />
      <SAP:P2 />
      <SAP:P3 />
      <SAP:P4 />
      <SAP:AdditionalText />
      <SAP:ApplicationFaultMessage namespace="" />
      <SAP:Stack>Messages in multi-message format can only be sent to one Adapter Engine</SAP:Stack>
      <SAP:Retry>M</SAP:Retry>
      </SAP:Error>
    Read in few threads about creating a "custom adapter module"...is this right? if so.... how to proceed ?
    Appreciate any help.

    Ram,
    Message Split using Graphical Mapping that ur using now supports adapter which are on same J2EE engine .
    In ur case Ur trying to post IDOCS ( I suppose ) which is not
       supported in using Graphical mapping.
    U need to change the design.
    -- Kavitha

  • Message split on adapter engine for the java based IDoc adapter

    Hi Guys,
    Do you know if message split on adapter engine is available for the java based IDoc adapter on the single stack (PI 7.31)?
    I'm getting such exception when I try to post 3 IDocs
    Transmitting the message to endpoint <local> using connection File_http://sap.com/xi/XI/System failed, due to: com.sap.aii.af.idoc.exception.IDOCAdapterException: Error before sending due to idoc parsing error: (7) IDOC_ERROR_PARSE_FAILURE: Invalid XML 1.0 character encountered within IDocXML for type <ns0:Messages>:
    state=EXPECTING_IMMEDIATE_TAG_END, charPosition=68, lineNumber=1, columnNumber=69, invalidChar=U+0078,
    sourceSnippet=...UTF-8" standalone="no"?><ns0:Messages xmlns:ns0="http://sap.com/xi/XI/SplitAndMerge"><ns0:Message1><...
    ^
    Mapping is one to many.
    Each IDoc content has been compared manually against the xsd schema and it was fine.  
    I know that old way of modifying xsd is still possible.
    Best regards,
    Wojciech

    Did you find a solution to this? Having a similar error right now.
    Thanks and kind regards
    Jens

  • IDOC Message Splitting with Logic

    Hi,  I have a business requirement for IDOC to IDOC mapping where the incoming IDOC line item should be split in to multiple line items based on a field value and also the resulting IDOC will be split in to multiple IDOCs based on a limitation on the number of line items. Without using BPM, have anybody used SAP XI to efficiently perform the above logics with proper check logics and error controls ? Appreciate your responses.

    Hi Raj,
    Try this:
    You can use Split by Value node function and set the properties of the split by value as: Each Value.So the for every different number,different item will be created.
    Using the Node Functions you can solve your problem.
    1.SplitByValue:
    The SplitByValue() function is the counterpart to removeContexts(): Instead of deleting a context, you can insert a context change in the source value queue. You then receive this element for each inserted context change instead of a top node element. However, for this to be possible, the top node source field must be assigned a top node target field and minOccurs must be >0. You can insert a context change in the queue after each value, after each change to the value, or after each tag without a value.
    2.RemoveContexts:
    You use removeContexts () to delete all the top contexts for an element. This removes all top hierarchy levels, so that all elements of the target queue are assigned to a root element of the source queue.
    Advanced user-defined functions can import either just one context into the input arrays, or complete queues. Make your selection by selecting or deselecting the Save Entire Queue in Cache checkbox in the function editor.
    3.CreateIf:
    CreateIf node function is used to create a node if true value is passed to it otherwise suppress it.
    4.collapseContext
    To remove the context in between the value and transfer only one value at a time
    5.useOneAsMany
    First Input:
    The value which is needed to be repeated.
    Second Input:
    It defines how many times the first input should be repeated.
    Third Input:
    It define when the context should be changed (on the basis of the required output
    Please go through the given link hope it will be helpful to you.
    /people/sravya.talanki2/blog/2005/12/08/message-mapping-simplified-150-part-ii
    Message Mapping Simplified – Part II
    /people/sravya.talanki2/blog/2005/12/08/message-mapping-simplified-150-part-ii
    Replication of Nodes Using the Graphical Mapping Tool
    /people/claus.wallacher/blog/2006/04/17/replication-of-nodes-using-the-graphical-mapping-tool
    Message Splitting Using the Graphical Mapping Tool
    /people/claus.wallacher/blog/2006/06/29/message-splitting-using-the-graphical-mapping-tool
    Also check this weblogs:
    /people/sravya.talanki2/blog/2005/08/16/message-mapping-simplified--part-i
    /people/sravya.talanki2/blog/2005/12/08/message-mapping-simplified-150-part-ii
    Split by value
    http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/21/3bb8c495125e4eb5969f0377885fe0/content.htm
    For value mapping check this video presentation and weblog:
    /people/sreekanth.babu2/blog/2005/02/23/value-mapping-replication
    /people/community.user/blog/2007/01/08/valuemapping-using-the-graphical-mapping-tool
    https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/docs?rid=/webcontent/uuid/110ff05d-0501-0010-a19d-958247c9f798#xi [original link is broken]
    /people/claus.wallacher/blog/2006/04/17/replication-of-nodes-using-the-graphical-mapping-tool
    Function formatByExample:
    /people/sundararamaprasad.subbaraman/blog/2006/02/21/real-example-for-formatbyexample
    Split by value, remove context and collapse context:
    /people/sravya.talanki2/blog/2005/12/08/message-mapping-simplified-150-part-ii
    Reward points if this helps
    Regards
    Pragathi.

  • File to Idoc (message split)

    Hi Gurus,
    I have a incoming xml file which is split into multiple debmas idoc for ecc.
    In message-mapping, message-tab
    source message occurance is set as '1' and target is set with "0...unbound"
    On target:idoc
    There is NO mapping for Messages and Message1 nodes. DEBMAS06 is mapped to source-field to create as many idocs. IDOC has NO map and BEGIN is set as constant(1).
    When i run the test, my result is as below: (NO Idoc)
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <ns0:Messages xmlns:ns0="http://sap.com/xi/XI/SplitAndMerge">
    <ns0:Message1></ns0:Message1>
    </ns0:Messages>
    When i ran the scenario with a test-file, got following error message:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
    - <!--  Call Adapter
      -->
    - <SAP:Error xmlns:SAP="http://sap.com/xi/XI/Message/30" xmlns:SOAP="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" SOAP:mustUnderstand="">
      <SAP:Category>XIAdapter</SAP:Category>
      <SAP:Code area="IDOC_ADAPTER">ATTRIBUTE_IDOC_RUNTIME</SAP:Code>
      <SAP:P1>MSGGUID C834F5D4235B44BD373F9F12AA5B0674: Tag found instead of tag IDOC BEGIN=</SAP:P1>
      <SAP:P2 />
      <SAP:P3 />
      <SAP:P4 />
      <SAP:AdditionalText />
      <SAP:ApplicationFaultMessage namespace="" />
      <SAP:Stack>Error: MSGGUID C834F5D4235B44BD373F9F12AA5B0674: Tag found instead of tag IDOC BEGIN=</SAP:Stack>
      <SAP:Retry>M</SAP:Retry>
      </SAP:Error>

    Hi,
    IDOC multimapping (it's called bundling) is supported please fallow that Michal's blog:
    [/people/michal.krawczyk2/blog/2005/12/04/xi-idoc-bundling--the-trick-with-the-occurance-change|/people/michal.krawczyk2/blog/2005/12/04/xi-idoc-bundling--the-trick-with-the-occurance-change]
    You need to modify the xsd definition. It works perfect. E.g. in my company we are splitting 1000 idocs in one run.
    Best regards,
    Wojciech

  • Multi-Mapping Message Split 1:n

    Hi experts,
    I have a few questions regarding a multi-mapping for a 1:n message split. I have a business process which collects IDOCs from a specific IDOC type (ZHINVOIC01).
    I have a 1-to-1 Mapping for collecting the IDOCs.
    After this 1-to-1 Mapping the IDOC has the following structure:
    xdoc has the occurrence 0..unbounded
    For every IDOC in the source structure one xdoc in the target structure should be created. My Mapping works very fine, but I have one question. If there are more IDOC-Elements in the source structure, I have more xdoc-Elements in the target structure. But I do not want to have one target-message. the mapping should create one file with the element xdoc for every IDOC element in the source structure.
    I want to send a xml-file for each xdoc-element to a ftp-server. is that possible?
    Thanks and best regards
    Christopher Kühn

    Hi Udo,
    look at my example above:
    for the source structure
    <Messages>
       <Message1>
          <ZHINVOIC01>
             <IDOC/>
             <IDOC/>
             <IDOC/>
          </ZHINVOIC01>
       </Message1>
    </Messages>
    I have the following target structure:
    <Messages>
       <Message1>
          <xdoc/>
          <xdoc/>
          <xdoc/>
       <Message1>
    <Messages>
    now the target structure is only one message, isn't it?
    But I want to have for this case 3 Messages each with only one xdoc-element.
    I hope that we are not talking at cross-purposes
    Thanks and best regards
    Christopher

  • BPM Message Split in Block par for Each: Just last message is sent n-times

    Hello everybody,
    we got BPM with a message split. In a par-for-each block the message is send.
    Asuming I have 3 lines in the multiline container element, I can see in SXMB_MONI that that message is send 3 times.
    The error is, that 3 times the last message is send.
    <u>Sample Error:</u>
    Message incoming in BPM:
    <root>
      <mymessage>M1</mymessage>
      <mymessage>M2</mymessage>
      <mymessage>M3</mymessage>
    </root>
    Messages outgoing:
    <root>
      <mymessage><b>M3</b></mymessage>
    </root>
    <root>
      <mymessage><b>M3</b></mymessage>
    </root>
    <root>
      <mymessage><b>M3</b></mymessage>
    </root>
    --> As you can see, just the last message M3 is send 3 times!
    What can I do?
    Regards Mario

    If I take the payload from SXMB_MONI an try to test, I get an syntax error when I copy&paste the data into the message mapping.
    This is very strange, because
    a) the message mapping is done on basis of imported IDOCs!
    b) the BPM works without throwing a mapping error
    So what should I do?

  • IDOC_TO_FILE ALEAUDIT message SPLIT

    Hi, 
    1.   I am sending an IDOC from R3 to XI.
    2.   In XI IDOC splits in to 2 messages
    3.   XI sends the 2 messages to 2 File systems(FTP).
    4.   NO BPM,  tried on SP19 / SP20,
    5.    Expected 2 ALEAUDIT messages back to R/3
    Problem:
        ALEAUDIT messages are not reaching the R/3.
    Additional Info:
      1. I dont have any problem in receiving ALEAUDIT message in IDOC_XI_FILE scenario with out message split, means one receiver. Problem is with message split and 2 receivers.
    Thanks in advance.
    Moni

    Hi Moni,
    Please check following points -
    1. Do you get any error in SXMB_MONI transaction in XI? Whats happening to the response messages there? Are you able to see any entry in SXMB_MONI for that?
    2. Also ALEAUDIT idoc only allows few statuses not all. It will be worth checking which status is being passed back to R3. (This will not be relevent in you case as the scenario works without message split...)
    3. Check if you have set up partner profiles correctly and corresponding parter number is set in Idoc specific attributes in adapter channel.
    Hope this helps.
    Rahul.

  • Message Split 1:n

    I have created a multi-mapping for a message split (1:n transformation). Tested the mapping and it works fine. However when I try to activate the related interface I get the error:
    A multi-mapping with multiple source or target interface instances is only recommended with asynchronous interfaces, since only a mapping of this type can be used in the process editor.  IDoc ORDERS.ORDERS05 | urn:sap-com:document:sap:idoc:messages are not asynchronous abstract interfaces
    As my interface is asynchronous, and according to SAP-Docu this is the only restriction for a multi-mapping - I have no clue what the problem is?? Has anybody a hint?
    Regards
    Anna

    Hi Anna,
    When you import standard structures like ORDERS.ORDERS05 , It imports both message interface(this interface does not have any direction like i/b, o/b or abstract ) and message type, but you can use these interfaces only ouside the BPM. If you want to use them in BPM then you need to create Asynchronous Abstract interfaces using the imported message types.
    Please create Abstarct Asynchronous interface for ORDERS.ORDERS05 to use in BPM. 
    Regards
    Anand

  • Message Split or Split message in ABAP

    Hi ABAP guru,
    I am facing a difficult choise, our secnario like following:
    we will use a background job to trigger a program to collect today's new material master data, then use RFC adapter to send data to XI, XI will use JDBC receiver to insert data into Oracle DB. We will use PLANT field to distinguish which message should be sent to which DB(we have 3 plant, each plant has its own oracle DB, and only needs own data)
    Choise A:
    in the program, loop the internal table which contains many material master data, call RFC each loop, to make sure every message contains one material only.
    Choise B:
    use BPM message split pattern.
    Could please let me know, depending on your experience, which way will be better?
    If you have another choise,that will be appreciate to let me know, thank you very much for your help.

    Hi,
    to tell you the truth the best way would be to go for ABAP proxies
    this way you'd be able to send a all material to one plant
    in one message (as you can easily nest XML nodes)
    with RFC or IDOC it's jut not possible as you can only use
    tables and one header
    but still I suggest small messages over the usage of a BPM in this case
    (BTW if you have any test tool - like mercury loadrunner)
    you can create both cases and compare the performance
    in your environment
    Regards,
    michal
    <a href="/people/michal.krawczyk2/blog/2005/06/28/xipi-faq-frequently-asked-questions"><b>XI / PI FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions</b></a>

  • Message Split Comes Before Mapping

    Hi,
    Can anybody explains the following queries....
    1.Why Message Split Comes Before Mapping in Pipeline Steps?
    2.What do you mean by Collaborative Profile and Collaborative Agreement?
    3.What are Context Path, Context Object and Context Handling?
    4.Which adpaters run on j2ee engine and which run on ABAP stack.
    5.What is the need of datatype when we are creating the message type
    6. and similarly what is the use of Business system when we are creating the corresponding Technical system
    Thanks n Advance.,
    Stallin

    >>1.Why Message Split Comes Before Mapping in Pipeline Steps?
    Simple. Imagine you have 2 receivers with different mappings. If this has to work correct, XI needs to copy of the source msg for doing the mapping. rite?
    >> 2.What do you mean by Collaborative Profile and Collaborative Agreement?
    Collaborative profile -->Serivce with out party and service and all the commn channels you create for it.
    Collaborative agreement -->Sender & Receiver agreements, that bind your cc with the interface.
    >> 3.What are Context Path, Context Object and Context Handling?
    Context path- It is Xpath expressions I guess. It is used for specifying conditions in receiver determination and interface determination.
    Context Objects -- Used for the same.It reduces the complex Xpath expressions.
    >>4.Which adpaters run on j2ee engine and which run on ABAP stack.
    All adapters are part of j2ee frame work except IDOC and HTTP adapters. You dont need sender agreements for the 2.
    5.What is the need of datatype when we are creating the message type
    To get the valid XML structure.
    6. and similarly what is the use of Business system when we are creating the corresponding Technical system
    Tech systems -->Physical entiteis
    Buss Systems --> Logical entities.
    Regards,
    Jai Shankar
    Message was edited by:
            Jai Shankar

  • Message splitting 1:n without BPM error : 404   Not Found

    hi,
    is u r server is updated with sps14
    please once check this.. may be this is the problem
    Thanks,
    Madhav.
    Note:points if useful

    hi,
    please go through the limitation of this bolg
    A mapping-based message split will ultimately produce n individual messages, but not until it reaches the Adapter Engine (AE). Inside the Integration Engine (IE), the messages are grouped together and persisted as one bulk message. The bulk message is sent to the AE where it splits the bulk message into individual messages and persists them.
    Restrictions
    u2022  Messages that result from the split in a mapping-based message split are sent using one AE. So only adapters running on the AE are supported. In particular, this means that target IDOC/HTTPmassagee splits are not supported since the IDOC/HTTP adapter is not part of the AE.
    u2022  The target system of the message splits cannot be an integration process.
    u2022  Attachments from the original message are not appended to the messages resulting from the message split.
    now i think u wont be able to send the the 2 diffrent file in diffrent location.both the file cab be sent to be togethre.because when u configure the receiver determination in ID u need to include both receiver service as a receiver.and thus u need to configuer 4 interface determinatio as well as 4 receiver aggrement. this is because you r using the only one IM which containg both the interface.
    regards,
    navneet

Maybe you are looking for

  • Problems using Labview as ActiveX Server

    Hello,        I have been having difficulty using Labview as an AcvtiveX server. I have reviewed all the postings on this subject and most are either pre Labview 8.2 and thus do not account for the changes made between 8.2 and 8.5 which broke the Act

  • Need help with rebuilding credit.

    I am not sure where to start. My credit was ruined when my ex and I split. He let the house and everything go even though I told him he wouldnt have to pay child support if he just kept it all going until we sold. That is now off my credit but after

  • Creator and simple HTML objects like HR

    How can i add simple HTML things like <HR> etc to a jsp page when using creator. And also how to create a page which also contains things like a table to containing just some multiline static textual information etc in creator.

  • Editable Items in Tree Control

    Hi all,        i ve the following req. :    i need a tree control which has its items under nodes to be displayed in editable mode...is it possible...how? Can i use  method  item_set_editable of class CL_GUI_COLUMN_TREE??? kindly reply asap... Thanks

  • Unable to access e-mails

    Since updating to the new version of firefox I am unable to access my e-mails. It says 'you have undefined new e-mails' but wont let me open the inbox. I can however access my e-mails in internet explorer. Why would that be?