Mixing Drop Frame and Non Drop Frame In One Timeline

We did a 7-camera multicam shoot of a rock concert over the weekend. Upon capturing we realized two of our camera operators were shooting Non Drop Frame mode while the remaining 5 were shooting drop frame. Can someone describe to me how I can eventually get all seven cameras into one timeline? I realize I might have to output/convert the non drop frame stuff. And since we're one the topic, I'd also like to ask (in case I find this out later) what I might do if we find a camera that shot 24P (29.97). Thanks in advance!
G5 DUAL QUAD & 2 X Power PC G4 (Dual 533) & 550 TiBook Mac OS X (10.2.x)

There is nothing different about the footage from the cameras...they all run at 29.97fps. The only difference is in the way the timecode NUMBERS are treated. Drop frame code simply loses 2 numbers (00 and 01) every minute except for every 10th minute. That's it. They all run at the same speed, so putting them all in the same timeline shouldn't cause any problems.
Trying to make a multiclip based on timecode will be a problem, however. You will have to find a common frame on all and use that.
Shane

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Drop Frame and Non Drop Frame

Does QuickTime Pro 7 allow you to select between drop frame and non-drop frame?

I don't understand your question.
QuickTime Player will automatically reduce the implied frame rate to maintain the file playing. You can observe this by viewing any HD movie trailer on a non supported OS.
Frame rate drops so much that the file is nearly not viewable yet the audio portion continues to play back without issue.
The QuickTime author can't set these parameters and QuickTime Pro users can override the issue by selecting to "Play All Frames". This can quickly bring playback to its knees on older systems but it will not drop any frame during playback. It may take two days to view each frame of a 1080 HD movie trailer on a G3 but you should see each one.

Edit to tape confusing drop frame and non drop frame

This is a re-creation of a dead thread I found from June 6, 2006. This is the exact problem this other user was having.
OS 10.4.7
FCP 5.0.4
Dual G5 2.5
4.5 GB RAM
KONALH
Trying to edit to a Sony DVW-A500 (Digibeta) in Drop Frame mode.
Read Below for deets.
Problem: When working with a drop-frame sequence, and editing to tape, the program is edited to the tape with an offset of 3 seconds and 18 frames at the end of one hour.
Reproducible: Yes.
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Create a drop-frame sequence.
2. Edit the sequence in step 1.
3. Perform an edit to tape with the sequence edited in step 2.
What should happen: The sequence should be edited to tape at the time it occurs in the timeline.
What does happen: The sequence is edited to the tape 3 seconds and 18 frames after it should be!
Other observations: 3 seconds and 18 frames is exactly how much time is not in an hour of drop-frame time when compared to non-drop frame time. If you drop two (2) frames in every minute that does not end in zero, the math works out to 2*54=108 dropped frames in an hour. For the sake of simple mathematics, lets say there are 30 frames in a second. So 108/30= 3 with a remainder of 18, or 3 seconds and 18 frames.
It's as if FCP is getting confused about drop and non-drop timecode when the sequence is drop-frame. If anyone can offer any insights, confirmation, or resolutions for what I am seeing, it would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading!

So is the timeline a drop frame timeline, starting at 1:00:00:00?
And then is the DBeta tape prestriped (at least enough to do an assemble edit) to start the program at 01:00:00:00?
In other words, is the FCP timeline timecode matching the Dbeta tape timecode in a 1:1 relationship before you attempt to Edit to Tape?
Thinking further: FCP can't really confuse the two timecodes, it's dependent on the operator to tell it what to do. When it outputs it's not outputing timecode or looking even really looking for timecode. It's looking for your IN point in the Edit to Tape tool.
Message was edited by: loyed256

Drop AND Non-Drop?

If I had my way, all my FCPX templates would work at whole numbers of fps.
However it is polite to consider the colonies that don't use that standard, I also have to muck about with drop and non-drop timecode.
At the moment, I seem to have both at the same time...
Does anyone know how to control the timecode and timeline display so they both show drop or non-drop timecode?
@alex4d

Only two project settings use drop frame: 29.97 NTSC and 59.94 NTSC (23.98 NTSC is non-drop).
Best thing I could recommend is to add a Timecode generator to the project and manually set it for the alternate version from the Timecode base option. So if you have a 29.97 (non-drop) project, set the Timecode generator to 29.97 Drop, or vice versa. Or easier -- add two TC generators and set one to drop and the other to non-drop.
HTH

Outbound Delivery Processing - mix of serialized and non-serialized product

Has anyone configured the outbound delivery processing scenario in AII to handle a mix of serialized and non-serialized products? How do you handle packing & loading transactions where you have a mix of serialized and non-serialized products in the same shipment?

Closed..
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Is it possible to add value item and non stock item in one billing?

Is it possible to add value item and non stock item in one billing?

Hi,
Yes,it is possible .Take example of service scenario,where material used in servicing and service charges(labour) can be billed in single invoice.
Billing document type,Customer and other header data should be same.
Reward points if useful
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How to tell if video is drop frame or non-drop frame in Encore? Need info to use correct SCC file.

Hi,
Thanks in advance. I am using Encore DVD 2.0 to add closed captions to video. I have both a drop frame SCC file and a non-drop frame SCC file. How can I tell which one to use? Can I tell from the way the timecode looks on the timeline? Do I look at the timeline timecode or the source timecode? For example, in a random area of video the timeline says 00;02;50;24 while the source says 00:02:50:20.
Thanks.

Thanks jbowden and Jim for your help. Although I'm still not real clear how Encore notes DF vs NDF (more on that below), I got my problem solved.
Regarding DF vs NDF in Encore DVD...There doesn't seem to be a real consistent method of identifying which is which. For example, Jim suggested that I look in the Project panel for the colons vs semicolons. There, the video file timecode was shown as xx;xx;xx;xx with semicolons, apparently suggesting that it is DF. However, the timeline and audio file listed in the project panel also showed semicolons in the timecode. Then, down on the timeline, the timeline was shown as xx;xx;xx;xx while right next to that it said "Source xx:xx:xx:xx" with colons! So, if I go by the project panel, the video is DF. If I go by what it says down in the timeline, the video is NDF. As it turns out, subtitles and CC only match up if I use the NDF versions of them, not with the DF versions, which indicates that my file was NDF. So, in the end, I'd say that the way the timecode is represented in the project panel didn't mean anything, at least not in this case.

DV NTSD drop-frame vs. non-drop-frame??

My impression has always been that DV NTSC is non-drop frame. I'm having to capture a 100 hours of DV tapes from a Sony WV-DR7 deck. FCP capture is giving me this warning:
"You are about to capture Non-Drop Frame media from a device currently detecting or configured for Drop Frame media. If you proceed, you may experience changes in logged in and out points, problems relinking media, or removal of master clip relationships."
The Sony is all in Japanese, and the rough translation manual does not mention drop frame \ non-drop frame setting choices on the deck.
Would anyone have any suggestions or recommendations?
Ben

Sorry to be confusing~~~~
What I meant was, since I wasn't sure if the VTR you are using actually shows the timecode window, or just a timecode counter (the Sony DSR-11's display does not show the colon/semicolon difference in the display that is supered on the non-digital video outs), I thought the quickest way to assess what flavor of TC you had was to play the tape and use "Capture Now" to capture a few seconds. Then you can look in the bin, check the media start column and see if there are semi-colons or colons. This would be helpful particularly if FCP is balking at capturing from your logged marks.
The other thing I was talking about was a case where I had been given DVCam copies of camera masters, to use for a rough cut. Because these tapes were work prints, they used old DVCam tapes. One of the tapes had originally had DF material on it. When the tape op made the workprint, he started recording the new NDF material about 10 seconds into the tape, he therefore left 10 seconds of DF bars at the head of the reel (the old material). I put the tape in a DSR-11, fast wound up to picture, and started logging. When I was at the end of the reel, I hit rewind on the machine so it would rewind while I was clearing up spelling errors, etc. The machine backed all the way to head of the tape, into the DF area.
So when I hit batch capture, the machine reported back to FCP that it had a tape with the correct name loaded, but the time code was in the incorrect format - the message you received. It took a while to figure it out, but when I wound the tape forward, so that it was in the picture portion of the reel, the machine was then outputting the code that FCP was expecting. So by "parking" the deck in the picture portion of the tape, it would cue correctly from the logged point.
Hope this explains it. hope you have a simple solution, too.
Message was edited by: Meg The Dog to fix typo

Drop-frame to non drop-frame error

I just upgraded to Final Cut Studio 2, FCP 5.0.1 and I get this error message with every single tape I try to capture: "you are about to capture Non-Drop Frame media from a device currently detecting Drop Frame media." So, I click OK and capture anyway. The media is captured and looks fine - no audio sync problems. Then in the middle of my batch, before the second clip, I get the following error message: a change in time code rate was detected during capture of clip." I click OK and it captures fine anyway. Then later I get the audio sample rate error message too - it says: "The audio sample rate on one or more of your captured files does not match the sample rate on your source tape." But I capture anyway and everything looks and sounds fine.
I tried changing decks. Same problem. I checked the tapes and they were recorded as droop-frame and at 48 KHz 16 bits, same setting I'm using (DV NTSC drop frame 48 KHz)
Does anyone know if this is a Final cut bug or a real problem I should be concerned about?

It's neither... if you used consumer gear to shoot with, you'll get errors like this because consumer formats such as HDV, and DV are plain not that precise, but normally, you can just ignore them. As long as you're set up to capture DV at 48k and you shot DV at 48k, normally there's no problems even if these error messages are recorded.
Jerry

Drop frame OR non-drop frame

I've never worked with NTSC before. I converted my PAL footage to NTSC m2v, then imported the files into DVDSP. The audio and video play fine. The project preferences are set to non-drop frame timecode.
Is this correct for an NTSC DVD?
Does it matter which time code I choose?

Short answer: it probably doesn't matter.
Some circumstances under which the TC format matters:
Adding subtitles or captioning to the DVD - the TC of your asset needs to match exactly the master from the which the subs or captioning were created. Same if you're importing a marker list from a text file.
In editing with FCP etc., anytime you are coordinating sequence TC with tape or other asset TC, you should try to keep them consistent.
Also NDF TC is helpful for 3:2 pulldown removal (converting 29.97 video back to 24p by removing the pulldown).
Otherwise you are probably fine. Since you have converted from PAL to NTSC in software, you wouldn't be able to match up captions or subs to the new TC whether you used DF or NDF anyway.
Hope this helps -
Max Average

I'm confused...what is drop frame vs. non-drop frame...

And why does it matter guys...?
How would I know what I recorded in? Is it on my camera settings, or on FCP5 settings? Where would I look to find out?
Thanks guys...
Jeremy

In NTSC video, since the actual playback rate is 29.97 fps, drop frame timecode accounts for it not really being 30fps... so the editor can actually come to real timing on the program.
If non drop timecode is used in a sequence setting, and you mark an in and out point on say a 30 minute program, it will report the wrong duration (as compared to actual time). Most all DV cameras record drop frame only, but it really wouldn't make a difference if these clips were non drop. It's the sequence settings for TC that would determine the actual length of the program. Unless you have a very high end camera (AKA over 5k new) it's doubtful you can change the TC type. It's just a numbering system difference, and there really aren't any frames actually dropped when you use drop frame TC. When you look at the camera's on screen display of TC, drop frame usually is noted by separating the numbers with semi colons where non drop uses colons. It varies a bit, but FCP will recongnize the proper code when you capture from the tapes... it's really a non issue with source material though. it's still NTSC video playing back at 29.97 fps drop frame code or not.
Jerry

Drop Frame or Non Drop Frame in HDV format

Hello folks,
I am still learning all new things about HDV, so I am wondering what is the correct frame setting when shooting in HDV. In DV I have always used drop frame, because 29.89 frame rate. But what about HDV? Is that the same idea, or is the frame rate different? And how does FCP recognize this?
Thank You,
K.

It doesn't matter. Shooting DF or NDF doesn't matter. The frame rate is the same, just the way the frames are counted is different:
http://www.csif.org/html/dropframe.html
This doesn't really matter when shooting, AFIAK.
Shane

Dropped Frames and Audio Drop Outs???

PowerMac G5 1.8GHz Mac OS 10.5.7 4GB RAM 250GB Hard Drive
Final Cut Express 4.0.1
Sony DCR-TRV310
When I attempt to do a direct capture via firewire I am only able to get one or two seconds of video before FCE complains that it has reached the end of the tape.
If I try to capture from the tape instead of direct it captures OK but the video blinks like it has dropped a frame and the audio is full of drop outs, pops and other noises. Those noises are not there when I listen to the tape directly on the camera.
Is my machine to slow?
I have tried several different firewire cables and all of the firewire ports. I have rebooted and made sure I have all the latest updates.
I also have a DCR0SR80 and a DCR-SR220 but neither of those have firewire however when I import the video into FCE (after converting formats) that video plays fine. I would really like to use the TRV310 though since I can capture directly.
Suggestions? Thanks.
- C. Thomas

I have a MacTopus (8-core) and also had one particularly bad video import. FCE 3.5 would complain and stop importing so often that I gave up and used iMovie to import the DV footage from the camera. Then I imported that footage into FCE. Apparently iMovie is not so picky and tends to ignore timecode info when importing. If the timecode info is not critical for you - try iMovie.

AV output and non-standard frame sizes

I usually work in non-standard frame size for my FCP projects because my final output will be in a 2:35:1 ratio. I use a Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor as an HDMI output to a client monitor. Up until a few months ago the AV output of FCPX would allow the Mini Monitor to accept a frame size of 1920x818 and letterbox the output to 16x9 on this consumer grade LCD. One day, this just stopped working... I've reached out to Blackmagic and they have no solution or reason why this happened, and are not willing to offer support since what I was achieving wasn't an "officially supported" feature. Now, the AV output will distort the image vertically to fill a 16x9 frame. At this point I am stuck having to use either a matte layer or a widescreen effect on individual clips to output correctly to my monitor which increases edit time having to re-render any edits underneath the matte and having to re-order the letterbox effect after apply color correction etc. It was also very easy to adjust the frame offset with this wide angle project size.
Is anyone editing in 2:35:1 (or other cinema standard) projects and getting successful conversion on output? What are you using?
Cheers,
Matt

Thanks Tom, you clarified it ....... or at least something clicked in my brain.
I was trying to set "Custom" when I created the new project.
I didn't know, or had forgotten, that in the "error" window I could select "Custom".
All is now well and FCP X 10.1.1 is pretty clever after all!
There is one weird thing I'd like to mention.
When I clicked on "Custom" the 960 x 600 frame dimensions appeared but the frame rate was listed as 23.98p as shown in the screenshot below.
So what's wrong with that?
Well the clip is 30p and I naturally thought I was going to end up with a project with an incorrect frame rate.
Now here's the funny thing ......... when I selected the project and viewed it in the Inspector it was the correct 30p
So why was I given that worrying piece of misinformation.

Listeners - Entering a Frame and leaving a Frame to Call a function

OK, I am trying to get the following functions to load and unload the video to my main timeline when I go in and out of a frame. I tried on Enter_FRAME but it is now working properly and load many instances.
What are the listeners I need to do to call the functions of oCoach when enetering a frame and fclickCV when leaving a frame? Many thanks in advance!
//========Scenario Movie===================
var pCoach:coach_mc = new coach_mc();
var spriteCoach:Sprite= new Sprite();
spriteCoach.x = 5;
spriteCoach.y = 30;
//----------open scenario---------
function oCoach(myevent:MouseEvent):void{
     stage.addChild(spriteCoach);
     spriteCoach.addChild(pCoach);
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//     pCoach.scenario_txt.htmlText = myScenario;
stage.addEventListener(Event.ENTER_FRAME,oCoach);
//coach_btn.addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK,oCoach);
function fclickCV(myevent:MouseEvent):void{
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     pCoach.removeChild(videoVO);
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pCoach.closeCoach_btn.addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK,fclickCV);
forward_btn.addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK,fclickCV);
back_btn.addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK,fclickCV);

enterframe and exitframe are loops. they aren't one time events like their names suggest.
to execute code upon entering a frame, attach the code to the frame or, better, create a function containing the code and call that function from the frame. to execute code upon exiting a frame, create an object that is removed from the display list when you exit the frame. you can then apply a removedfromstage listener to the object to call a function that will execute when exiting the frame.

Mixing Drop Frame and Non Drop Frame In One Timeline

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