Mixing progressive and interlaced in timeline.

I am video recording a pageant this weekend. I was planning on shooting my Panasonic Ag-HMC150 at 1080i60. My b-roll cam is a Canon Vixia HG21 which only shoots at 1080i60, so I figured I'd just go interlaced on Panasonic as well. I don't need a film look or anything, so the video look for this live pageant is fine for me. However, now I have a friend who will be shooting with me as well. He will be roaming on stage getting shots of the girls exiting/entering etc.. He is shooting on a 7D, which to my knowledge only shoots 1080p24/30. I do not want to go the 720 route with the Panasonic or 7D. I guess what I am asking is it ok to mix progressive and interlaced video in FCP? My sequence shooting my two cams interlaced will be Pro Res 422, upper field first, 1920x1080. I guess I am curious if anyone has mixed the two types of video together before. Maybe I should go 1080p30 on Panasonic to match the 7D and just worry about deinterlacing the video from the HG21, even though deinterlacing still won't make it progressive. Another thing I considered was I will be doing a lot of quick panning and zooming, so to me it made more sense to go 60i verses 30p, for smoother motion and reducing any chance of strobing at the lower frame rate.
Thanks for the help.

If I had the ability to test them before the event, I would, hence the question. I will not see him until Saturday when he shows up with his 7d, and my HMC150 is out being used for another project right now.
I guess what I need to know is this. I am going to have 2 extremely long interlaced files, and 1 extremely long progressive file. After I convert the interlaced stuff to Pro Res in FCP (log and transfer) and convert the progressive h.264 mov files to Pro Res from 7d in Toast 10, I will start my edit in FCP. Because I need to turn this around into a DVD quickly, I am wondering if field dominance should be set to none, or upperfield first? Like I said, this is all going to DVD anyways so I am practically throwing away half of the resolution anyways.

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Just when I thought I new how progressive and interlaced are working....

Hey everyone.
I thought I new the difference between progressive and interlaced but I've still got a few questions. For the most part... i get it. Progressive is like 1 solid picture. Interlaced breaks up the picture into interlaced lines and 2 fields, odd and even . Great, that much I've got.
Here's my issues.
This is actually a compressor question but it starts off with Final Cut.
I shot some footage on Mini DV NTSC 29.97 interlaced.
When I edit it in Final Cut things look pretty good. I see a little interlacing in the preview window but that's ok, it's the preview window. I know there is a filter to de-interlace my footage but what is the option in my sequence settings of Field Dominance? There is an option of field Dominance- Lower, even and None. Lower and even I assume deal with interlacing fields. I assumed none meant progressive. What's the point of needing a filter if I can change the field dominance within my sequence settings? Does it do the same thing?
If I export this footage to compressor I use the H.264 codec from inside compressor.
I noticed that I can turn the Frame Controls tab of my setting on. I then have access to the resizing controls. Resize Filter... not sure what that is. Then Output fields. I change that to progressive. Which I assume deinterlaced everything... but then there is another option right below that to Deinterlace....? Didn't I just do that by saying their are no fields? On a final note after it exports and I go to look at the .mov... the footage is still interlaced.
One last thing with compressor. The above issues are all part of my setting inside of the inspector for the actual "codec" i have attached to the project. If I mouse click on the project itself... not the settings of the codec but the project itself, the information inside my inspector window changes. Now instead of Codec Settings I have A/V Attributes... there is an option there for Native Field Dominance? Which one do I change? How many field dominances are there? I have 1 in Final Cut another 1 in my AV Attributes of my project in compressor and a 3rd on in the codec settings.
I hope these questions make sense. They are confusing issues to me so I'm not quite sure how to ask them.
Thanks a lot.
-Drew

It's not surprising that you're confused. It's a pretty confusing subject. Hopefully, I can help you get some sense out of it.
Most of your questions stem from not quite understanding the definitions of "deinterlacing", "progressive frame rate", and "field dominance". Let's start with the last since it pertains to your first question.
When you have interlaced footage, you have 2 fields (as you noted) per frame. One field is drawn on the Odd (or Upper) scan lines of the TV. 1,3,5,7...down to 479. The other field takes the Even (or Lower) scan lines: 2,4,6,8...480. Together they are woven into a single frame.
The field dominance in your sequence settings determines which field is drawn first. DV and NTSC in general is Lower field dominant and if your footage is DV, you should not change this. Interlaced HD is typically Upper field dominant. Again, under most circumstances, this should not be changed. What will likely occur is a "tearing" of the image in movement, particularly noticed in pans or fast action. None draws each line successively which is how progressive footage needs to be interpreted.
However, progressive does NOT mean deinterlaced. Nor does deinterlaced mean progressive. If you use the deinterlace filter in FCP on your DV footage, you merely remove one field from your footage and REPLACE it with a copy of the field you kept. In other words, if you set the deinterlace for Upper, then the clip will copy the image in the Lower field and paste it into the Upper field. The footage will still be interlaced.
In Compressor, changing the Output to Progressive in the frame controls will make your interlaced footage progressive. This should always be done when the final viewing medium is a computer. You see, computer monitors always display thing progressively; they have trouble with interlacing frames. They are not built like TVs. If going to TV, then you want to keep it interlaced (unless you're going for the progressive look), as that is how standard def TVs are designed to view video.
The deinterlace option in Compressor is the same as the filter in FCP, but as you know now, that's not the same thing as making a file progressive.
Finally, the AV settings for the clip you placed in Compressor are the same as the sequence settings in FCP. They help the program determine how the file should be displayed. If you have DV footage, and you switch the dominance in that setting or in FCP, then you risk having your footage look jittery and generally no good.
I hope this clears things up for you a bit.
Andy

Best workflow for progressive and interlaced video.

I'm making a video that will go to the web and may end up on television (SD PAL) Should I shoot progressive for the web or interlaced for broadcast and deinterlace later. Is it easier to de-interlace than RE-interlace - assuming the latter is possible.

Both are possible, and neither difficult. What matters more is the "look" that you want. If you shoot interlaced (60i) it will have a "Video Look." Progressive was designed to look like film, particularly 24p. 30P is kind of a middle ground between the two. Shoot some tests and see which appeals to you.

Best workflow for Canon 7D (progressive) and Canon HX-A1s (interlaced)

I have been doing 2 shot interviews using the Canon 7D and Canon HX-A1s. What is the highest quality and most efficient workflow in 29.27 fps with the 7D being progressive and the XH-A1s is interlaced? I have been converting the 7D footage to ProRes 422 (HQ).
What Capture Preset is best for HX-A1s and Sequence Preset for radiating?
Your help would be most appreciated.

If you have the space, capture as ProRes....you can do that via firewire. If you are short, then capture as HDV and just work with it with a green render bar over the footage, and render later. Mixing formats is pretty easy as long as your sequence settings are ProRes.
And your interlaced camera will take on a progressive look. If you are OK with that.
Shane

Need to mix 24 and 30fps into a single timeline.

Hi there,
I have 2 files which are AVCHD 1920x1080 but one is 23.976 while the other is 29.97. I know PPro can mix both into a single timeline but I was curious what I should set the sequence settings as. How should it be exported? Does one convert better than the other?
I am happy to pre-convert the framerate as well before editing, but again, I'm not sure if one is better to convert than the other.
Thanks!
-Stephen

Use a 29.97 sequence. The 24p capture is likely wrapped in a 30i stream anyway.

Mixing HDV and DVCPRO HD footage in a timeline?

Can this be done in FCP 6?
Thanks.

But you would have to render one or the other depending what you sequence settings are.
Not with FCP 6 David. You can mix formats on the same timeline without rendering. That is the point of the mixed format timeline. BUT...he is right, eventually, before you output, you will have to render something. If your sequence settings are DVCPRO HD, then the HDV will have a light or dark green render bar above it. WOrkable for editing, but in the end you will have to render before you output.
Now mixing FRAME RATES...that is another story.
Shane

Mixing HD and DV

I happened to mix HD and DV in a AIC 1080/50 project. I saved it in 720x576 (PAL) but it came out squashed.
Can I save the project without editing it again?

Question for my students, about a short videomaking workshop in Venice.
I've rent a PANASONIC AG-HV200E HD camera, with hi-quality lighting equipment. Material edited in Final Cut Express 4.0.1 project 1280x720/25p. No great satisfaction in image quality... Medium quality camera (I thought) not real HD sensors (HD obtained by interpolation). To finish the video with e few new shots (no more university money for this) I used my "old" SD Anamorphic Pal Professional camera SONY DSR-570WE. DVCAM recording. Imported material into FCE, quality seems to be better than previous one! Good colours, good resolution. Maybe only some problems for recording interlaced material (PAL is 50i) into a progressive project.
So the question: at this point I prefer to go on using standard definition professional camera also to obtain HD output. Somebody, Tom Wolsky in particular, can say to me the best setup for FCE to obtain hi results?
At the end I need both interlaced DVD for PAL users and Bluray for public HD display or projection.
- Do you think i could obtain best results making editing in DV-PAL anamorphic and only at the end to export it in FULL-HD (interlaced o progressive?). Or better starting with HD project (which one?) importing DV material?
Thank you to everybody expert ho wants to answer to may uncertain English question.
From Italy!

Mixing XDCAM and HDV?? Outputting to SD DVD...

Hi
Earlier this year we shot a documentary on a Sony PDW-F350L HD XDCam (great camera, stunning footage - 35Mbps). Working in FCP has been fine.
We're doing a follow up and budget and logistics dictate that we sadly can't use 350s again (where we're going, carrying 2 Z1s for example is going to be a lot easier). We're also on a fairly steep learning curve (being relatively new to FCP, Compressor etc).
So I'm looking at options. We know that there are significant differences between say a Z1 and a 350 but from my research so far and from some relatively simple testing mixing Z1 footage (native) and 350 footage on FCP, at least editing on the timeline doesn't seem like it's going to present any problems (although thoughts on that welcome).
The issue seems to be outputting. In the first instance we'll be outputting to SD DVD. Yes, that old gem...
Searching round various forums, it seems this problem (HDV - SD) is fairly universal. Solutions seem to range from not working in Native HDV (suggestions vary on the format to ingest in - AIC etc); outputting to different formats first (eg DVCPro HD) and then to MPEG-2; outputting the timeline to tape (DV), re-importing; using some thing like a Matrox MXO to output and others...
We're aware of the shortcoming of HDV and the compressed nature of the format and our expectations, given our kit are realistic. I've even tried putting some PD150 footage on the timeline but that's just not going to cut it.
So, I've got to put a kit list together by next week and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on:
1) Mixing XDCAM and HDV on the timeline and any gotchas we should watch out for.
but more importantly
2) Any suggested routes I can look at to get some reasonable output with these two formats on the timeline - particularly HDV (don't think we'll have time to look at the Matrox route right now).
Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Cheers

Thanks Andy, Michael
That's good input. From an editing point of view we seem to be ok. Although, Michael, I take your point and that's a good suggestion.
The main problem is the workflow to create a decent SD DVD without the artefacts caused by compression/motion etc in HDV (and to some extent XDCAM).
Have read the prores whitepaper at
http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/whitepapers/L342568A_ProResWP.pdf
And looked a little more into understanding GOP structures and it seems that ProRes will help in terms of editing.
The white paper seems to suggest that converting to ProRes, because it uses I frame–only encoding "Ensures consistent quality in every frame and no artifacts from complex motion. "
We'll try some tests but, does anyone know if this is true?
But it also seems that deinterlacing may solve some of the horrendous vertical edge rippling we're getting on the HDV footage when outputting to SD DVD - although if I'm honest I'm not sure how we achive that with our current setting.

Can Premiere CS5 tell me if a clip is progressive or interlaced?

Is there some way to tell from within Premiere Pro CS5 if a clip (e.g. in my project window) is progressive or interlaced? If not, is there some other tool that will? Windows Explorer (I use Win 7 x64) will give me the frame dimensions and rate, but not I or P. Thanks.

In the summery you can read the field order of the sequence. That does not automatically mean its the same as the clip.
If you select a clip in the PROJECT PANEL, then the Export Settings summary will show the source details for that clip and not a sequence, because no sequence is selected at that point.

Scan mode when exporting - progressive or interlaced?

This may be a dumb question but I did a search and couldn't find anything definitive.
I have large uncompressed quicktime files that I need to export with the DVCPRO codec down to a file I can then use.
What's better to use as far as the scan mode? Progressive or Interlaced? And what's the difference between the two?
Any insight into this matter would be really helpful.

In layman's terms...
Film is Progressive.
TV is Interlaced.
Computer monitors do not show interlaced material in its true form... that is with a 'gun' zooming down the screen showing one field and back up the screen showing the other 60 times a second, as in a TV.
If you really want to see what progressive material will look like you need a progressive monitor. If you really want to see what interlaced will look like you need an interlacing monitor (broad generalization, but kind of true... I mean, you can get a good idea what progressive will 'look' like on an interlacing monitor, but you won't get a good idea what interlaced will look like on a PROGRESSIVE monitor).
SO...
What YOU really need to decide is 1) what type of LOOK you are going for... smooth 'reality' look of interlaced, or film-ish look of progressive, and 2) where you will be presenting this work... if it is for the web, realize that 90% of the monitors will be progressive in nature.
Don't be AFRAID of interlaced material... just use it for what it was intended for use with... er... in which it was intended to be used... er... well, you should get my point by now.
Good luck,
CaptM

Mixing ECC and NECC (Non-ECC) RAM Modules

Hi,
I have a G5 Dual Core 2.0 with a pair of 512Mb Non-ECC (NECC) RAM installed and I want to upgrade to 3Gb. I'm thinking of getting 2Gb ECC modules and discarding the 1Mb NECC installed. But I came across a phrase in the Apple Manual of my G5 that states "DO NOT MIX ECC and NON-ECC Memory Modules WITHIN A PAIR." Does that mean I can mix ECC and NECC within Memory Banks and NOT within a PAIR? Because in that case I won't have to discard my NECC 1Gb and have a mixed 3Gb Memory!? I'm afraid to actually try it so I would appreciate your insights. Thanks much.
G5 Dual Core 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

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PS: BAPI For Planned Progress and Actual Progress

Dear All,
Is there any BAPI available for Planned Progress and Actual Progress for PS Project.
Regards,
Sohail

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        at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java:173)
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        at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:551)
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        at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:551)
        at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:933)
        at org.apache.coyote.tomcat5.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java:189)
        at com.sun.enterprise.web.connector.grizzly.ProcessorTask.doProcess(ProcessorTask.java:604)
        at com.sun.enterprise.web.connector.grizzly.ProcessorTask.process(ProcessorTask.java:475)
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        at com.sun.enterprise.web.connector.grizzly.TaskBase.run(TaskBase.java:281)
        at com.sun.enterprise.web.connector.grizzly.WorkerThread.run(WorkerThread.java:83)My code looks like this:
<h:outputText escape="false"
          value='<link href="#{myBean.styleSheet}" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />' />If I replace this with a much more convoluted set of tags, it works:
<h:outputText escape="false"
          value='<link href="' /><h:outputText escape="false" value="#{myBean.styleSheet}"
          /><h:outputText escape="false" value='" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />' />So is the problem that I am mixing dynamic and static content with a single value? If so, why does it work on the first view, and not after?
If it matters, I'm using the reference implementation version 1.1 (as included with NetBeans 5.5RC2) on SuSE 10.0 w/ JDK 1.5_09.
Thanks,
Bill

Yes, that's how I originally had it, but then changed it to the outputText approach since a single tag could do what I wanted, as long as I was allowed to mix static and dynamic content within a single value.
I think this is a bug in JSF 1.1, since if what I am doing is illegal, it should throw an exception on the first page view, not work on first view and throw an exception on subsequent views. I'm guessing that this has something to do with the fact that on first page view it only runs the restore view and render response JSF phases, while on subsequent requests all of the phases will be run, and it's in one of those other phases that the exception is thrown.
For now, multiple tags is the work-around, I guess.
Thanks,
Bill

Adding a jar to the classpath of an executable jar (mixing -jar and -cp)

Hello,
frankly I hesitated over posting this to "New to Java"; my apologies (but also, eternal gratefulness) if there is an ultra-simple answer I have overlooked...
I integrate a black-box app (I'm not supposed to have the source) that comes packaged as an executable jar (with a Manifest.MF that specifies the main class and a bunch of dependent jars), along with a few dependent jars and a startup script. Long story short, the application code supports adding jars in the classpath, but I can't find a painless way to add a jar in its "classpath".
The app's "vendor" (another department of my customer company) has a slow turnaround on support requests, so while waiting for their suggestion as to how exactly to integrate custom jars, I'm trying to find a solution at the pure Java level.
The startup script features a "just run the jar" launch line:
java -jar startup.jarI tried tweaking this line to add a custom jar in the classpath
java -cp mycustomclasses.jar -jar startup.jarBut that didn't seem to work ( NoClassDefFound at the point where the extension class is supposed to be loaded).
I tried various combination of order, -cp/-classpath, using the CLASSPATH environment variable,... and eventually gave up and devised a manual launch line, which obviously worked:
java -cp startup.jar;dependency1.jar;dependency2.jar;mycustomclasses.jar fully.qualified.name.of.StartupClassI resent this approach though, which not only makes me have to know the main class of the app, but also forces me to specify all the dependencies explicitly (the whole content of the Manifest's class-path entry).
I'm surprised there isn't another approach: really, can't I mix -jar and -cp options?
- [url http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/tools/windows/classpath.html]This document (apparently a bible on the CLASSPATH), pointed out by a repited forum member recently, does not document the -jar option.
- the [url http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/jar/run.html]Java tutorial describes how to use the -jar option, but does not mention how it could play along with -cp
Thanks in advance, and best regards,
J.
Edited by: jduprez on Dec 7, 2010 11:35 PM
Ahem, the "Java application launcher" page bundled with the JDK doc (http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/tools/windows/java.html) specifies that +When you use [the -jar] option, the JAR file is the source of all user classes, and other user class path settings are ignored+
So this behavior is deliberate indeed... my chances diminish to find a way around other than specifying the full classpath and main class...

I would have thought that the main-class attribute of the JAR you name in the -jar option is the one that is executed.Then I still have the burden of copying that from the initial startup.jar's manifest. Slightly less annoying than copying the whole Class-path entry, but it's an impediment to integrating it as a "black-box".
The 'cascading' behavior is implicit in the specification
I know at least one regular in addition to me that would issue some irony about putting those terms together :o)
Anyway, thank you for confirming the original issue, and merci beaucoup for your handy "wrapper" trick.
I'll revisit the post markers once I've actually tried it.
Best regards,
Jérôme

Mixing progressive and interlaced in timeline.

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