MobileSTOR MS2UT + esata + USB + mac pro = never-ending problems

Question

Hey gang,
I seemed to have entered a perfect storm here:
I had purchased the *MobileSTOR MS2UT 2 Bay SATA to eSATA/USB 2.0 RAID 0/1* Enclosure initially for a *dual 800 quicksilver G4* mac that I had, looking for a hardware-based Raid solution for back ups and to not burden the G4 processor. I have replaced the G4 with an early *2008 2.8 dual quad core mac pro*. After two machines and two different PCI sata cards, I've had no luck....
(website for the above enclosure)
http://www.sansdigital.com/mobilestor/ms2ut.html
For starters, in the G4, I had a quality Seritek/1ve2+2 controller that had no problem with two other single drive enclosures, but failed with the MS2UT.
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/
A glib response from Seritek support says that I should use their enclosure. Digging around I find that I need a controller card that can handle a port multiplier enclosure rather than just any serial ata enclosure. Seems silly to me that the user has to dig for this. I mean the USB & FIREWIRE interfaces don't seem to care: it says USB/FIREWIRE on the effing box of both the controller and on the drive, badda-bing, badda boom: it works. Whats with this high maintenance of esata. Well you get roughly 2-3x the performance so Ok, maybe its worth it.
Well, with the macpro on the horizon,, I give up on the G4, close that unsolved mystery. For the mac pro I figure PCIe, a modern computer, no problem. I get the computer, fish around the internet for an esata PCIe card, then I come across this review of the WiebeTech SilverSATA II which appears to be similar to that of the MobileSTOR:
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/wiebetech/silver2/
It appears that the unit has specific tastes as far as having the right card to make it bootable, multiport aware, etc... (the Sonnet Tempo 4+4 card works but its a PCIx card, not PCIe)
Like I said: install a bootable Mac OS on any USB/firewire drive, plug it into any card, and it works... estata... its russian roulette...
Ok so I round up some vendors, (firmtek, sonnet, Highpoint) send them emails to see what they think: if their latest cards will work with the MS2UT... They are all over the place.. they think it may work, they dunno... it should work, they haven't tested it... then they try to push their own enclosure hardware on me. I mean see an astrologist or have your palm read.. it seems more likely you'll get a more accurate answer from them, rather than vendors... props to Sonnet, though, they list compatibility right on the page with their controller.
then 10.6 comes out... and you email vendors about compatibility on that OS, and they don't even email you back.
So I find this review of the highpoint rocket raid for the mac on the great sight: Barefeats.com
http://www.barefeats.com/hard119.html
to make a long story short:
+KEY FEATURES of the "eSATA for Mac"+
+1. Dual eSATA ports+
+2. 32 and 64-bit EFI onboard+
+3. Able to boot Mac OS X+
+4. Plug and Play for (Oxford and Silicon Image chipset) external storage+
enclosures
+5. 4x PCIe rating+
+6. Support for Direct Attached and Port Multiplied enclosures+
+7. RAID 0, 1, 5, and JBOD support using browser-based manager+
+8. Native support for Snow Leopard+
+9. Compatible with 2006 - 2009 Mac Pro+
I should be set, right? WRONG!
I email highpoint, detailing that I planned to mix both Port multiplied (PM) and direct access (DA) enclosures on the same card at the same time. They say maybe (only describing the PM enclosure, not even mentioning the DA enclosure compatibility as I specified), since its a raid card and I intended to use it with an enclosure with its own raid hardware, however they say they see no issues. Well it shows they don't even know their own hardware: Their docks say that the card supports PM enclosures as well as DA (direct access) enclosures. Their web based software even shows the two as separate categories. What is buried in the manual and not cleared up by tech support or their product page is that YOU CAN'T MIX PM AND DA ENCLOSURES ON THE CARD AT THE SAME TIME!!! I explained more in the paragraph above than any tech support from any company. Unbelievable where support has gone these days.
I discover the above because I found the card at Fry's believe it not and since they have a generous return policy I tried it out and learned the above the hard way. No dice on the MS2UT with what is perhaps the most forgiving esata card for the mac.
So more hunting on the web, this time the enclosure's manufacture site: sans digital.
http://www.sansdigital.com/mobilestor/ms2ut.html
...clicking on the accessories tab I find several esata adapter cards... funny that they include ones that don't appear to support PM enclosures... Anyway, I study two that state they supports port multipliers:
http://www.sansdigital.com/adapters/ha-san-4espcix2.html:
http://www.sansdigital.com/adapters/ha-dat-4espcie.html
Ok, I may not get a bootable enclosure.. I just want to get this thing working in esata since cloning my internal raid on the mac pro takes 8 hours using usb, and my main purpose is to maintain a clone so I make my compromise.
I should be set, right? WRONG!
reading the fine print on both cards it says:
*(Please note that the host adapter card is based on Silicon Image chipset, which currently only support up to MAC OS 10.5.1 by Silicon Image.)*
I do more research, it seems any manufacturer using chips by Silicon Image will have an issue with 10.6 macs! On some websites it says Silicon Image will never release a driver. On firmtek it says they make their own driver and swears that it works. At the Silicon Image website they say they are an OEM provider so don't bother them, and that its up to the vendor to make a compatible driver. Sheesh!!
I don't get it.. whats the point in having an esata sticker if it appears to come in more flavors than an ice cream shop!
Oh and it gets better: I go to the sonnet site, thinking they have to have something that works, looking at their latest tempo SATA E4P:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/temposatae4p.html
well, the fine print is EXHAUSTIVE, but again props to Sonnet for making it crystal clear:
(4) Sonnet Tempo cards are compatible with most external SATA storage. However, external hard drives with USB 2.0/eSATA dual interface based on the Oxford Semiconductor OXU931DS storage controller chip may not be compatible with Mac OS X when connected via SATA. Known issues are kernel panics occurring when the drive is connected, or the drive not being recognized by the operating system.
+Summary of external SATA storage+
+• Storage with eSATA alone +
Compatible
+• Storage with triple interfaces +
Compatible
+• Storage with eSATA plus Firewire 400 and/or 800 +
Compatible
+• Storage with port multiplier support (multiple drives) +
Compatible
+• Storage with RAID 0, 1, or 5 (multiple drives) +
Compatible
+• Storage with eSATA plus USB (based on JMicron 20366) +
Compatible
+ these compatible drives include, but are not limited to:+
+- OWC Mercury On-the-Go USB 2.0/eSATA 2.5" portable+
+• Storage with eSATA plus USB (based on Oxford OXU931DS) +
+not compatible+
+ these incompatible drives include, but are not limited to:+
+- Western Digital My Book™ Premium ES Edition™+
+- Seagate Technology FreeAgent™ Pro+
+Advanced users note that this card is not yet compatible in full 64-bit boot. Snow Leopard default boots in 32-bit mode, except in an Xserve.+
So in short: if you have an enclosure that has both USB and esata, but does not use the JMicron 20366, then it will not be recognized by the card. If you have an enclosure with three interfaes: USB, FW and esata, you're fine. Keep in mind too: most manufacturers don't put the source manufacturer of their chipsets on the box. So I ask..
*HOW IS THE CONSUMER SUPPOSED TO KNOW!*
I swear, a perfect analogy is if I go to best buy, buy a toshiba DVD player only to discover it doesn't play DVD's that contain movies produced by Sony Pictures..because its not a a Sony/columbia House movie. You think consumers would put up with that crap? UNBELIEVABLE...
So now I have this really versatile enclosure that apparently can't run on Mac 10.6 with ANY esata controller for the mac. I really like the design of the enclosure, with its hardware based raid that is hot swappable and has a small footprint. However there seems to be no way to get a controller card for this device that will work on a 10.6 mac.
I guess whats inferred is that you should get an enclosure with the fewest variety of ports, i.e. esata/fw/usb... ironically if it has all three, you are ok, but not if it has usb/esata. Being that USB is the most popular, thats not easy. I'm looking to contact Sans Digital to see if they will exchange it for me, possible for a model with esata/fw800 or an esata only model, if it exists. My last resort is to just use it as a USB drive (my intention was to use it as a clone of my system, with the added security that the enclosure makes a copy of a copy in raid 1), however its like 3x as time consuming than esata.
If anyone has a working MobileSTOR MS2UT/wiebetech SilverSATA II in a 10.5 mac pro, please respond to me with your config. Thanks for reading!

Answer 1

Thank you hatter for your reply.
I'm familiar with OWC, as I've done business with them since 2001, as well as XLR8.
I have a 2008 mac pro so the 2009 model related problems are not an issue in my situation
As I stated above I go to reputable vendors for my hardware who have specific mac experience. I look specifically for hardened compatibility so that there is support for things like deep sleep. The Sans Digital enclosure was over $200..it was not cheap. The USB/Esata combo is the most common interface for the enclosure storage market. Having a compatibility issue is a vendor fault, not the buyer. Having minutiae flavors of esata compatability based on chipsets roulette wheel is inexcusable. The enclosure needs that I have is for the medium to be removable and be able to be rebuilt at the hardware level, i.e. at the enclosure's control panel. To the mac its just a drive. The hotswap and back up is transparent to the OS and mac hardware, and allows me to change from raid 0/1 and do back up right from the enclosure interface.
So far I haven't had problems with USB/Firewire. Meanwhile Esata to me has been nothing but beta testing for vendors and seeing how the chipset manufacturers have gone loosey-goosey on following spec and just dump cheap chinese crap into the market with no pride.
for comparison:
USB/FW, PATA, SATA, SCSI
1) industry standard
2) native drivers
3) bootable. Period.
4) buy a controller card/raid card, plug it in, format, it works even through major OS upgrades.
5) USB/FW: Hot-swapable. Yes it really does work.
Esata:
1) Multiple standards (again, look at the Sonnet website to see the minefield one has to walk through to mate a controller card to an enclosure)
2) non native drivers. Buying an esata card is like marrying into the vendors family. Plus if you manage to get things working and do an OS upgrade, you are playing russian roulette. If you system boots off it, then get life insurance because you may kill yourself.
3)Not bootable and no one seems to care to explain why. Whats odd is that some earlier PCIx cards were bootable (like sonnet Temp 4x4) but their PCIe successors aren't. Not sure if this has to do with the host computer BIOS and/or the current chipsets from SI which rely on custom drivers from the vendors. Another lovely example of this are the ODD_SATA ports on the Mac pro: storage only, not bootable. Sure it makes sense now that I've learned it the hard way, however to users of FW/USB and even IDE, one would think that motherboard ports are bootable. Yes I know this is a mac bios thing and its not even considered as part of the feature set of the computer
4) As I've shown, each controller card seems to be unique, even if its from the same vendor. Even the drivers vary from card to card! Heck even the vendors are unsure as to how compatible their controller cards are with various enclosures. That is proprietary, not industry standard. OS upgrades doesn't seem to provide native driver support for Direct access and/or port multiplying interfaces. The problem with this is that film/video users like myself like to build bullet proof systems, and with raids that I've built from IDE, FW, or USB, I've never had the minutiae of compatibility issues as I've had with esata. I installed an Acard raid controller in my dual 800 back in 2001, installed the drives and forgot about it. it just worked through multiple OS upgrades. Not sure whats gong on with esata.
5) Can't call it hot swappable if I can't get the **** thing to wok in the first place.
My analysis is this: Esata is basically a proprietary format to the vendor that sells the hardware, while USB/FW is an industry standard. I bought a quality enclosure that said "esata", I bought a quality controller that said "esata", it didn't work. I had to learn the hard way about DA and PM enclosures and now about chipset conflicts. I've built computers since the late 80's amiga days, hot-rodding that computer well beyond spec and with custom cooling. SCSI terminators and IDE master/slave issues were easy-cheesey because they followed straightforward rules. This esata stuff is just plain sloppy work on the part of vendors and as Danny Glover said I'm getting to old for this **** as far as being a beta tester for hardware.