Modem/Router to use with Time Capsule

Hi forum,
I would like to work around a DOUBLE-NAT problem that I am encountering in my business network.
Currently, my ADSL modem/router is an Orange Livebox which creates its own internal network (192.168.1.x).
My Time Capsule is connected through ethernet to this LiveBox in DHCP/NAT mode. It creates a second internal network (10.0.1.x). All the rest of the network equipment is attached wirelessly or by ethernet to the TC network. My goal is to manage the network (ports, dhcp addresses, etc.) through my Time Capsule, not through the Livebox. That is why I configured TC in DHCP/NAT mode.
The downside is that it creates a Double-Nat problem, because each packet is going through both networks (192.168.x.x and 10.0.x.x). Lately, Apple Support is telling me that this Double-Nat issue could be the cause for failing to answer iPhone calls directly from my MacBook Pro (new feature of Yosemite) when connected in my business network, where it works perfectly when connected from home in where there is no Double-Nat issue.
I contacted Orange Livebox technical support and asked wether it was possible to de-activate the router portion of the Livebox, at least the DHCP/NAT portion of the box since I would not mind to keep the built-in firewall of the box. But the answer was no. It looks like I cannot turn off the router portion of the Livebox at all, so my only solution for them is to enable the bridge mode on TC, which I still don't want.
I was told to buy a ADSL2 modem and replace my Livebox with it, so TC would effectively become the only router on the network. That looks to me like a satisfying solution (at least on paper).
Would any of you know and recommend a particular brand/model to work with Time Capsule. Ideally, what i would like this modem/router to do is :
Modem part: connect with my provider in ADSL2 and provides my credential to establish the connection
Router part:
DHCP/NAT = OFF
built-in firewall = ON
I assume it would be the best way to get the best of my Time Capsule (802.11n - 3rd Gen).
Thanks for your help or advices on the matter,
Lanceloz

I believe I followed your structure step by step. And here is what I got (see attached files). Hence my question about the TC hardware and software version that you are using.

Similar Messages

  • Best modem to use with time capsule?

    I'm having Time Warner Cable (TWC) come into install internet only on Thursday.  I want to attach my new 3tb timecapsule to the network (which I just purchased so unused so far) and use as my wireless gateway and for wireless backup.  TWC has a list of recommended modems we can use.  I picked the motorola sb6141 but I saw a few posts on other threads here that is causes problems with Time Capsule over time and the speed diminishes.  Of their list, would someone recommend one of these other options instead? Or should I just go with the motorola?  Am not a tech savvy person, but can work with detailed instructions.  So whatever would give me the least headaches?   Thanks much!
    Vendor
    Model
    Motorola
    SBG6580
    Motorola
    SB6141
    Motorola
    SB6121
    Motorola
    SB5101
    Motorola
    SB5101U
    Motorola
    SBG901
    Netgear
    CG3000D
    Netgear
    CMD31T
    Zoom
    5352
    Zoom
    5350
    Zoom
    5341J
    ZyXEL
    CDA-30360
    I have a brand new macbook pro (2 months old) so i'm assuming I have the latest of everything.  I run the software update regularly.

    You might want to read the discussion started in Feb 2014 with the title "What is the most reliable modem for my Apple Time Capsule." TWC was mentioned by two responders.
    I am no technician and therefore cannot help beyond this referral. However,
    I have a similar question about which modem to use with a Time Capsule. My ISP is Cox Communications, whose website suggests similar modem brand/types as mentioned in your list above, but also adds two Cisco models that are compatible with Cox internet. The Cisco models are DPC3000 (Preferred) and DPC3010 (Ultimate). I would like to get the DPC3010 but would like confirmation that the TC WiFi will work as flawlessly as it has been, while connected to a Linksys with DOCSIS 2.0 technology. Thanks for any advice.

  • What's a good External Hard Drive to use with Time Capsule

    I have a MacBook and a 1GB Time Capsule, and until recently used my TC to store and access the music and video files I've purchased from the iTunes store as well as my Time Machine backups. The HD in the TC crashed a few months ago, and necessitated a long, drawn out and somewhat expensive restore to get everything off the crashed drive before restoring it. So now, I simply want to use the TC as a backup using Time Machine, but I also want a good external hard drive that is either wireless and can either be connected through the TC's WiFi base station capabilities or can plug in to the TC's USB port.
    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    Hi, and welcome to the forums.
    Most USB drives should work fine. But there isn't much power on the USB port, so bus-powered drives must be connected via a powered hub.
    And several folks have reported that larger drives, over about 750 GB, even if they have their own power, need a powered hub, too.
    And be aware that Time Machine, like most backup apps, cannot back up from any network drive. The Chronosync app may be a usable alternative.

  • VPN with Time Capsule

    I previously used a USRobotics router with VPN support so that I could look at my security cameras using a web browser on my Iphone.
    Is a VPN connection i.e. server available in the time capsule or my Mobileme account to do the same or do I have to revert to my old router as use the time capsule as a bridge to my LAN. If so will back to my MAC work in this configuration?

    MobileMe, not being an Internet connection provider as such, cannot provide a VPN service. I'm not sure about the Time Capsule; you may want to ask about that in the Time Capsule forum.
    It may also be possible to set up a VPN server in Mac OS X. Asking in the Networking forum in the area appropriate for your version of Mac OS X might yield a useful solution.
    Regards.

  • Can I use Extreme with Time Capsule to extend my gateway router and still use Capsule as "external HD"?

    Bought Airport Extreme with Time Capsule version 7.7.2 with 2 Terabytes Feb 2014. It was probably an expensive mistake, but after searching for weeks for a external hard drive, it seemed reasonably priced to just use the capsule as my external hard drive for the price I paid. Spend an hour with Apple Care to get it working-had to use ethernet cord to my iMac OS 10.8.5 processor 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5. I did not "need" the airport as we have a Winstream SAGEMCOM modem/router (Sagemfast 1704) But, I was desperate and about to lose my old external hard drive with literally had 3 computers worth of information on it. It had already "died" once, but got it back, so once I got the airport/capsule and was told I just paid for an expensive HD, I had no time to take it back to get something else-I had to transfer my info right then. We (Apple Care) could not get it to work as a HD wirelessly. It may be because it was being set up for the first time; I don't know. I was hoping I would get a transcript of all done so I could do it myself if needed later on, but when I looked at my email-they didn't do that. (Don't know if that is normal, I was used to other "techs" sending the email.) So now I really want to try to move my airport and "extend" our wifi as it said on the "box" that you could do...
    Our Windstream router had to be placed in the lower level at the bottom of our stairs. The stairway is "open" (no door going down the steps). I want to place the Extreme at the top of the stairs so that we can use some things in our offices or not have Netflix on our TV lose connectivity when we all are on our computers.
    I know I need an ethernet cord to connect directly with the modem/router to the Airport Extreme.  I don't know what I will need to do after I connect it as it was so goofy when we set it up the first time (With the app it would disappear and not show up..) But my biggest concern is will I be able to still use the capsule as my hard drive and will I be able to do it wirelessly? (Even with it connected by ethernet, every day I have to re-connect to it before I can click on anything on the hard drive. It never shows up on it's own as my old HD did. That drives me nuts.) I do back up using the Time Capsule feature as well. I appreciate any help.

    I am still willing to plug in the ethernet cord to the modem/router and try it IF I was able to get a step by step instructions..
    Connecting the Time Capsule (TC) to the existing Winstream by Ethernet would be the basis for a roaming type network. This type of network allows you to basically "roam" with a wireless client and connect to either router. This, in essence, would provide you with an "extended" wireless network. The Apple routers can work with just about any manufacturers' routers in this fashion.
    The keys to having a successful roaming network are as follows:
    The routers must be interconnected by Ethernet.
    Both routers will broadcast their own Wi-Fi network, but MUST use the same Network Name (or SSID), wireless security type (WPA or WPA2), and wireless password.
    The TC MUST be reconfigured as a bridge.
    Connect a single Ethernet cable between one of the Winstream's LAN ports and the WAN (circle of dots) port on the TC.
    The basic steps are:
    Power-down the Winstream.
    Perform a "factory default" reset on the TC. Leave the TC powered-down after the reset has completed.
    Connect the TC to the Winstream using an Ethernet cable.
    Power-up the Winstream. Wait at least 10-15 minutes to allow it to initialize.
    Power-up the TC. Wait at least 5 minutes to allow it to initialize. (Note: Since we just reset the TC it will be performing as a wireless router that will be broadcasting an unsecured Wi-Fi network with a Network Name of something like: Apple Network NNNNNN)
    Connect your computer to the Winstream's Wi-Fi network.
    Run the AirPort Utility. select the TC, and then, select Edit.
    Go to the Network tab.
    Change the Router Mode option to: Off (Bridge Mode)
    Select the Wireless tab.
    Verify that the Network Mode option is set to: Create a wireless network
    For Wireless Network Name, enter the Wi-Fi network name used by the Winstream.
    For Wireless Security, select the equivalent security type that is used by the Winstream. (Note: Use "WPA/WPA2 Personal" if the Winstream is using WPA/TKIP. Use "WPA2 Personal" is the Winstream is using WPA2/AES.
    For Wireless Password, enter the same password used by the Winstream.
    Select Update and allow the TC to restart.
    As far as your external HD, yes you should still be able to use it as before.

  • How to use my Time Capsule with my Router?

    My Time Warner Cable HS connection uses a specific modem, the Motorola Surfband SBG6580.
    I was currently using my Tiem Capsule as my router and just a Cable Modem from Time warner, but this particular service uses this wireless router. I need to get my Apple Time Capsule back into my netowrk.
    I would either like to understand how to use the Motorola as a switch or just as a modem so I can use the Time Capsule as my router or vica versa, use my Time Capsule as just a back up drive and leave the Motorola as my rwireless router. The onyly thing about this second configuration is that I need to connect to the Time Capsule wirelessly with one of my computers for back up, the other two are both on an ethernet port hard wired.
    So this is what I have to put in place:
    Motorola Wireless Cable Modem
    Time Capsule
    5 Port EasyNet Switch
    iMac Desktop (Ethernet hardwired)
    Macbook (Ethernet hardwired)
    MacBook (wirelessly connected to the network)
    Any thoughts great appreciated.
    Henry

    It's likely that your ISP will require that the Cable Modem is the first device in the chain. You do need to set the Time Capsule to Bridge mode, disabling the DHCP. Now, the Cable Modem is providing DHCP to devices that connect to it, and devices that connect to the Time Capsule.
    You will be able to wirelessly connect to the Time Capsule and network.
    Here is a simple article explaining:
    http://www.ehow.com/how5309467bridge-time-capsule-mac-pc.html

  • Is it best to use a basic (ISP supplied) router just as a modem and use the Time Capsule for everything else?

    Just feeling my way into using a Time Capsule as the main networking device for two macbooks, two iPhones and occasional vistors including an iPad. Right now the basic ADSL router provides, internet conection, Firewal, DHCP and NAT. The Time Capsule provides WiFI and backup to the MacBooks. The MacBooks and iOS devices all use WiFI and a couple of media devices use ethernet (a hub is part of the network).
    Would it be better (i.e. more effective in performance or management) to limit the router as much as possible so for instance turning off DHCP and NAT then reconfiguring the Time Capsule to do that - sort of part way to a situation where the router would be replaced by a modem? Or am I just wasting effort to no good purpose?

    There is no simple.. yes or no to your question.
    Often modems cannot be bridged.. or if they can the TC does not have the ability to provide the correct services to connect.
    What is the broadband type and what is the modem router you are talking about?
    Generally the supplied modem is perfectly adequate to the speed capability of the service provided.
    In some cases we do say bridge it.. eg alot of cable modem routers supplied here are very poor, Have terrible NAT tables and pathetic abilities.. so we encourage them to be bridged or replaced. Most DSL type modem routers seem to be ok.. and are easily replaced anyway.
    Time Capsules are far from being giants in the router world btw.. they have absolute min of controls possible. Lots of good things might be supplied on your normal modem which are missing in the TC. eg QoS. Decent logging, NAT table connection lists.. along with all the other lists.
    Overall the gain.. I think for most people will be small.. try it out.. that is the only way to know.

  • I want to set up the Time Machine and I would love to use the Time  Capsule but since I already have a wireless router I need suggestions on  what other external disks Apple could recommend to use with the Time Machine and  how to configure that disk

    I want to set up the Time Machine and I would love to use the Time
    Capsule but since I already have a wireless router I need suggestions on
    what other
    external disks Apple could recommend to use with the Time Machine and
    how to configure that disk.
    A complication that I need to resolve is the fact that I am using Vmware
    Fusion to be able to use Windows on my Mac. Now it seems that Time
    Machine is not backing up my files
    on that virtual Windows without additional configuration and my question
    is whether you can advise me here or whether this is only a matter for
    the Fusion virtual machine.

    If you want to use Time Capsule you can.. you simply bridge it and plug it into the existing router.. wireless can be either turned off or used to reinforce the existing wireless.. eg use 5ghz in the TC which is much faster than your 2.4ghz.
    You can also use a NAS.. many brands available but the top brands are synology, qnap and netgear readynas  series. These will all do Time Machine backups although how well always depends on Apple sticking to a standard. There are cheaper ones.. I bought a single disk zyxel which was rebadged and sold through my local supermarket. It actually works very well for TM at least on Snow Leopard. Major changes were made in Lion and again ML so do not instantly think it will work on later versions. I haven't tried it yet with those versions.
    Any external drive can be plugged into the mac. Use the one with the fastest connection or cheapest price according to your budget. USB2 drives are cheap and plentiful. But no where near as fast as USB3 or FW800. So just pick whichever suits the ports on your Mac. Interesting Apple finally moved to USB3 on their latest computers.
    TM should exclude the VM partition file.. it is useless backing it up from Mac OS side.. and will slow TM as it needs to backup that partition everyday for no purpose.. TM cannot see the files inside it to backup just the changes.
    You need to backup windows from windows. Use MSbackup to external drive.. if you have pro or ultimate versions you can backup to network drive. But MSbackup is a dog.. at least until the latest version it cannot restore the partition without first loading windows. There are about a zillion backup software versions for windows.. look up reviews and buy one which works for you. I use a free one Macrium Reflect which does full disk backups and is easy to restore.. to do incremental backups though you have to pay for it.

  • How can I use my time capsule with Ethernet cable? How is it also possible to use time capsule as a normal external hard drive?

    My problem is that I don't know how to use my Time Capsule with Ethernet Cable, as when I use wireless it is really slow.

    Make sure that there is an Ethernet cable from one of the LAN <-> ports on your modem/wireless router to the WAN port on the Time Capsule
    Click on the Wireless tab at the top of the page
    Change the setting for Wireless Mode to Off (I assume that you do not want the Time Capsule to provide a wireless network since you already have a wireless network)
    Next, click the Internet icon at the top of the screen, then click the Internet Connection tab
    Connect Using = Ethernet
    Connection Sharing = Off (Bridge Mode)
    Click the Update button at the bottom and wait 30 seconds for the Time Capsule to restart and display a green light
    Then, you must power off your entire network...all devices....in any order that you want
    Wait a minute
    Start your modem/router first and let it run a minute
    Start the Time Capsule and let it run a minute
    Keep starting devices one at a time until everything is powered up
    If you are using Time Machine for backups, you will need to reset the connection because you have changed the way in which the Time Capsule connects to your network
    Open System Preferences (gear icon) on the dock
    Open Time Machine
    Click Select Disk
    Click the Time Capsule to highlight it
    Click Use for Backup or, it might be Use Disk
    Now you can connect your Mac using an Ethernet cable to one of the LAN <-> ports on the Time Capsule to back up using Ethernet. Be sure to turn off the wireless on your Mac before you start the backup.
    If you want to backup using wireless, disconnect the Ethernet cable from the Mac to the Time Capsule and turn on the wireless and connect to your wireless network. Your computer will now backup using wireless.

  • How do I use my Time Capsule for backup without making it my router?

    I've always used my Time Capsule as my internet router (paired with my Time Warner modem) and I've also used it to back up my computer.   I just got a new modem, it was a nightmare to set up, and it's supposed to have very fast internet.  It's a Time Warner modem / router.  In order to set this up and get a new wifi, I had to disconnect my Time Capsule.
    Now I would like to connect my time capsule again to back up my computer, but to avoid messing with the internet or changing it again (I may as well try the new one), I DON'T want to continue using my TC as a router.   how do I go about doing this?  Do I continue to have it connect to the modem via ethernet or do I just plug it into the power source and that's it?
    If someone could walk me through the process it would be so appreciated!

    Hi Alexandra,
    The article linked below details how to go about settings your Time Capsule up as a bridge, which effectively disables all routing functionality (NAT and DHCP services are disabled on the Time Capsule as they will be handled by your ISP's modem/router), and should allow you to utilize Time Machine without affecting your existing network.
    AirPort Utility 6.x: Set up a base station or AirPort Time Capsule as a bridge
    http://support.apple.com/kb/PH5104
    All my best,
    Allen

  • HT3728 Firmware Update 7.6.4 Error: I uploaded the 7.6.4 firmware update today, and received an error message as it was finalising. As I am using my Time Capsule as the Airport router, I am now no longer able to access it to try to resolve the problem. He

    Dear Support Team,
    I agreed to the Time Capsule 7.6.4 update today, but as it was completing, I received an error. It said to close the page and try again.
    I use my Time Capsule as my Airport wireless router and now can't access the Time Capsule to re-upload the Firmware update.
    Has anyone else had this happen?
    Is there a way to resolve the problem?
    Do I need to hardwire the Time Capsule? Then what?
    Would really appreciate some help!!
    Thanks everyone.

    Factory reset the TC and it should come back to life.
    The Factory Reset.
    Power down the TC.
    Hold in reset. and keep holding it in. Be Gentle! It is a tiny surface mount switch with a plastic lever.. Attempting to push it out the other side of the TC will not make the switch turn on better.
    (I fix TC and have several reset levers bent over and jammed or broken off).
    Power on the TC.. remember with the reset held in.. this needs three arms.. a friend or power switch you can get to with your feet..
    Keep holding in reset for about 10sec until the front LED flashes rapidly.
    Release reset and wait .. the boot will be slow as it deletes previous setting.. only from router side and pulls out the factory defaults. No files are deleted on the hard disk.. but the name of the TC may change.
    As a rule .. wireless is not reliable enough for mission critical work like firmware upgrades.. (Heck I don't think it is reliable enough for backups).
    Apple doesn't insist on wired connections.. some other manufacturers do.. and post warnings not to attempt it over wireless. Warnings inevitably read after the failed firmware update btw.. so perhaps Apple have decided to just save themselves the hassle.
    I believe it is just good practice to use ethernet for any time that sitting on a branch.. whilst sawing it off (ie failure will kill any future access).. means you always use ethernet for any setting up of a wireless router.. but you see I am old.. with grey/white hair.. and too many dead modems and routers around me.

  • What to do with Time Capsule when not using for Wireless Internet

    I previously connected my Time Capsule to my fiber optic router but in my no home this is no longer needed as the cable TV company now provides 160 MPS Internet in a router that contains a wireless router built in. It works fine.  My computer is now connected wirelessly to that router (too far to take advantage of the wired connection).
    Therefore I want my Time Capsule to just be connected to the computer for backups.  I gather I have to connect it via Lan and make sure it does not transmit r receuve wirelessly. In fact, other wireless computers in the huse occasionally try to log into the old Time Capsule PPoE settings, so I want to erase them and start fresh.
    This seems to be similar to what I want t do, but I want to make sure and ask:
    https://discussions.apple.com/message/8256674#8256674
    If this is not correct, can someone advise.
    By the way, I have a first generation Aiport Express that I hope to use with my new cable router (modem?).  I assume it will work as it did with the Time Capsule. Purpose is for Airplay with an audio system.
    Thanks!

    Thank you for your replies. I really appreciate it.
    To answer your questions in order, but first I should mention that due to work reasons, I will be away from my computer until Friday night Japan time, or Friday AM US time.
    Anyway, probably better I go slowly,as I tend to get overwhelmed by technical things.
    1) You said:  "The TC does NOT require an Internet connection for network connectivity. You DO have to connect the TC by Ethernet to the Fiber Optic router in order for it to gain network connectivity AND to allow network clients to access it."
    -->Ok, this is in reference to my Time Capsule and the previous network n myold apartment.  But your next question makes me wonder:
    2) "Is this Motorola device the one that replaced the Fiber Optic router that you mentioned in your original post? What is its model number? Do you have the TC connected directly to it by Ethernet?"
    Ok, this is what I have:
    Wall--> Cable modem with wireless (Motorola SURFboard SBG6580J Wireless Cable Modem Gateway.)
    Other Room  IMAC connected wirelessly to Cable Modem (no Ethenet connection to it since there is no jack and too far to run a cable (permanently--I can do for setup if needed)---> connected to TC and Time Capsule is backing up ok. Time Capsule is also not connected to the Modem
    3) "Since you will only want to use the Time Capsule for Time Machine backups, I understood that you wanted to disable its wireless network. If this is still the case, the Express would need to be configured to join the wireless network provided by the Motorola wireless router."
    Yes, This is what I am wondering. Do I have to connect it by LAN to the Motorola?  A few times, when it was just plugged into the Wall, my Mac airport utility found but them could not connect to my Express. maybe because I did not configure it to work with the Motorola as you say.
    4)
    "By default the Express will broadcast its own wireless network with a network name of something like: Apple Network NNNNNN. You would need to connect to this network with your computer prior to attempting to access it with the AirPort Utility. Another option would be to temporarily connect it, by Ethernet, to the Motorola router during its setup phase. Once completed you can move it to the desired location."
    Ok, this confirms what I guessed.  Connecting the computer to the Expressby Lan?  Is that what you mean?
    I do understand the second option---connecting the Express to the Motorola. 
    If that is right, I can try that.  Do I need to do anything other than connect it?
    I will be able to try this Friday or Saturday I hope.
    Once again. thanks for all your help. Really appreciate your taking the time to explain it.
    paul

  • I want to use my Time Capsule just as backup, not as a router.  How?

    I just want to use my Time Capsule as a wireless back-up and not as a router of any kind.  My mac is already connected to my wireless network and it seems the the Time Capsule wants to run a wireless connection of its own?
    Here's what I've done:
    -Plugged the time capsule into a power outlet (have not plugged it into anything else)
    -The amber light continues to blink
    -Ran a back-up (to do this I had to disconnect from my main wireless and connect the time Time Capsule Connection)
    -It ran through a back-up and completed, but when I tried to open time machine, it couldn't connect so I switch back to my main wireless connection
    I am not good with setting up connections and things of that nature.. I am afraid to unhook my main wireless. 
    What do I do?
    Thanks!

    The Time Capsule should be bridged and plugged into the main router.. you can then use the wireless on the TC or the main router.. both will give you internet and TM will be able to backup.
    What OS version are you running.. I only know the v5 method of setting up the TC.. where you go to internet tab, connection sharing and select off .. bridge mode.. if you have later OS.. like Lion, you can download the 5.6 utility.
    http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1482
    It is much better than later version. But it will not install into ML.. you will need another member to describe the method or google for it.. bridge TC with 6.1 utility.

  • Can i use my time capsule to extend my wifi signal without physically connecting it to my router?

    I currently have a BT Homehub connected to a modem, which is connected to the ethernet port in my wall (which is downstairs). I bought a timecapsule to wirelessly back up my computer. It is connected via ethernet cable to my router. I have recently been having trouble getting a wifi signal in one room in my house (upstairs). To fix this i was wondering whether it is possible to move my time machine somewhere upstairs, to a location closer to this room, and have it transmit a wifi signal without it being connected to my router via ethernet. And if so how would i go about doing this?
    cheers
    jadidev

    Can i use my time capsule to extend my wifi signal without physically connecting it to my router?
    Yes, if you have an Apple router.
    No, if you have a BT router.
    IF....your Time Capsule is currently set up to provide a wireless network signal, you could add another Apple device...like an AirPort Express....to extend the Time Capsule wireless signal.

  • Ow can I use my time capsule as a time machine backup without using it wirelessly and not as a wireless router?

    How can I use my time capsule as a time machine backup without using it wirelessly and not as a wireless router?

    bzb888 wrote:
    I have a wireless transmitter already, would like to use the capsule just as a back up drive, I tried hooking up from the ethernet port on the imac to the one of the ports on the capsule but then my Wifi would not work. do I hook the cable to the port with the circle or the arrows?
    It is better to have the TC as part of the main network in bridge. You do not need to run wireless.
    If you want to use the TC plugged in by ethernet and still use wireless for internet, that is possible but the setup is rather more complicated.. the computer must not get confused about which device to use as a gateway or dns server.
    See info in this thread on setting this up.
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4817218?tstart=30
    I need to add.. a USB drive would be cheaper, faster and more reliable. It is really poor use of a TC.

Maybe you are looking for