Motion to FCP round trip color shift

I've been searching all over the web and have found many posts in various forums about the gamma shift that occurs when Motion projects are imported into FCP and then exported out as an MOV (ProRes or H.264), but have yet to find a suitable solution. All of Apple's documentation seems to indicate that using Motion with FCP should be as easy as importing a Motion project to the timeline. Does anyone know how to prevent the gamma shift that ultimately makes Motion elements in the exported MOV appear washed out?
I know that I can enable FCS color matching in QuickTime to adjust the appearance of the MOV, but I'm sending this file to clients that don't use Final Cut and won't have this option; especially those on PC.

Same problem. No grade or LUT. Mac Pro Quad, BM Intensity Pro, JVC DT-V20L1UA.
My test involved NTSC color bars. I exported 10 sec bars out of FCP to a QT, reimported them and cut them back into my sequence. At that point, the imported bars were identical to the fcp bars I'd started with.
After I'd SENT sequence to Color, the bars changed, mostly in lighter in contrast & brightness plus a little hue shift.
After the scene was rendered in Color and round-tripped to FCP, the new "look" came back to fcp
Could it be in the conversion of FCP YUV to Color RGB
Nate Hubbard

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FCP quits when making round trip to motion

When I try to make to make the round trip with one or more clips to motion(using "sendto" and with "embed" ticked on), everything seems to work fine, but when I save the motion project and quit motion FCP just quits "unexpectedly".
When I then restart FCP, I can import the saved motion project, but as soon as I try to play it in the viewer, or I drop it in the timeline, FCP quits again...
Any advice ?
G5 Quad Mac OS X (10.4.7) decklink extreme

You'd be answering your own question.
The workflow for colorgrade has evolved over the last twenty or so years (in video) and over the last better part of a century in film as the final step, after everything was LOCKED. Its kind of why this application was first named "Final Touch".... well, it was sort of a clever reference to "Final Cut"... but... we know how that worked out.
It would be a bit misleading to conceptualize COLOR as a kind of really fancy 3-way, but the fact remains that as an external application, it creates all new media, independent in most ways from the original sources. We can understand that as an extension of the workflow from the days of linear tape-to-tape, when an entirely new, "Color-Correct" Master was created. Some flexibility can be built in to the return trip with the use of handles... but it can also turn into a whole other can'o'worms. Keyframed stuff can get out of sync.... etc.
jPo

Round Trip problems with FCP, Motion and 16:9

Hello all-
I've been having some problems with FCP5 and Motion 2. I am working with anamorphic footage (mini dv), and my problem lies in trying to use the "send to" feature in FCP to Motion 2. If I send some footage to Motion 2, edit it, and then go back to FCP to look at my edit, the anamorphic flag has been removed... the video is squished and there are black bars on the right and left sides of the film. I can easily fix this if I find the clip in the FCP browser and check the anamorphic flag, then drag and drop that clip over the original in the sequence, but I was wondering if there was an easier way. Is there a way to make it be anamorphic when it comes back into FCP from Motion 2?
Thanks!
Dual 1.8 G5/2GB & 12 PB G4/1.25GB Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Yes, it loses the anamorphic flag on round trip. Just
ctrl/right-click on the Motion project in your
timeline, select Properties/Format and click on the
anamorphic setting column.
Patrick
Patrick-
Thanks for the reply. That's exactly what I've been doing, but I was just wondering if this was an actual bug or not. I guess we will have to wait for Apple to fix it...
BTW- Whenever I check the anamorphic culumn, I always have to re-drag and drop the clip in the timeline again. Is this right? Or should it go ahead and change it in the timeline automatically?
Thanks again!
Dual 1.8 G5/2GB & 12 PB G4/1.25GB Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Trouble with the round trip from Color to Final Cut Pro

I have edited a home movie together. I then have sent the sequence to Color for grading and then after completing the Color changes and Rendering. I sent it back to Final Cut Pro. It starts out working fine but during the transfer process it stops at somewhere between 50% and 60%. It is during the "Importing XML Data" phase. It just sits there and does not change and I have to force quit to get out of it. The exact same thing happens when I try to round trip from Soundtrack Pro 2 back to Final Cut Pro. So I am unable to make use of the changes I make in these programs.
This is a round trip process that I have successfully made many times before. Nothing has changed. I am working in Final Cut Studio 2 with the latest updates on an Intel Mac. Any advice on how to remedy this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Hard to say where the XML interpretation is getting lost... That it stalls at 60% could mean a number of things. If you have a cuts and dissolves simple timeline, that should not be an issue. Something is causing a corruption, though and it could be a media type, a filename (which can break folder paths), a filter or motion tab which generates an invalid value, or a recompression that violates the sequence settings.
At this point, I start cutting up the original sequence and roundtripping it until it works, or breaks and then try to figure out what's different. Often there's something hidden like an imbedded recompressor in a nested sequence or something like that, that will allow COLOR will load, grade, render, and then not know what to do to re-write the export XML, or re-imbed it illegally.
There are a lot of things that FCP does that editors take for granted that COLOR utterly cannot cope with -- but may deceptively carry along and then crash on the next step.
jPo

Why won't simple dissolves make the round trip back to FCP?

I have read in the Color manual and in certain places (here and the COW), that simple video transitions should be able to make the round trip back from Color to Final Cut Pro. I have a video that I prepped for Color, only it does contain a few cross dissolves. Everything is on one track, and the grading is done. I see my dissolves in the Color timeline. When I go back to FCP, however, they are gone. Obviously, with there being no handles on Color video, I can't add them later.
I understand that I could send the clips I want to perform dissolves on with handles over to color, grade them, and send them back and THEN make the dissolve, but this would be an elaborate waste of time. Is there a setting somewhere that I'm overlooking? Why, when all indications are that it will work, will it not work?
Any input would save me from re-doing this whole edit.
Thanks.
Stats: Running Final Cut Studio 2
            Mac Pro
            FCP version 7.0.3
            Color version 1.5.3
All clips involved in this edit were QT at MPEG-2 Video, Linear PCM, Timecode
Dimensions 1280x720
Let me know if you need more info.

Color doesn't work with MPEG-2 video. It works with FCP codecs... ProRes, DVCPRO HD, HDV, XDCAM. And only renders out as ProRes or Uncompressed. I've done over 100 onlines using Color, and every one of them kept the transitions intact. Every one. The fact that it isn't for you, means you are doing something wrong...and your codec is the obvious culprit.

Significant color shift between FCP and COLOR?

Hi there,
I get a significant color shift when sending footage - either adjusted or unadjusted/unmodified - from FCP to COLOR.
Before anyone asks, the color shift is visible both internally or on an external broadcast preview monitor.
From within COLOR, I 'send' back to FCP this sequence - which is still without any form of adjustment (apart from being sent to COLOR), the apparent color shift is now visible/added to the imported sequence (from Color).
I've tried this on three separate Macs:
1. The Mac above (6.0.6). (Leopard)
2. A Mac with the same version of FCP as above. (Snow Leopard)
3. FCP and on a third Mac with an earlier version of FCP. (Leopard)
Does everyone have the same problem?
If not, does anyone have a solution?
Cheers,
Dan
PS: I've tried:
FCP > Color ProRes contrast shift
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2150962&tstart=75

I had the same problem except that I am using version 1 of color and Final Cut Pro 6. I isolated just the video and double checked that I had no filters or if I did I turned them off. I had a smooth cam filter on one shot, but that didn't effect it. I was then able to send it to color without issue, once I had no sound or filters or transitions messing up the pass between final cut and color. Try doing the same, just duplicate or copy your timeline to a new timeline. I would have rendered your footage out to ProRes however as using the DVC Pro codec is probably not ideal. Color also only works with actual full raster files, not so good going from HDV or DVC Pro as they have an anamorphic frame size. This may be causing issues also.

Color shifts when exporting a picture sequence in both FCP/Compressor

For a project I had to make a movie from still images. I imported the .tiff files and edited them in the right order. Then I added transitions and motion to the images (zoom in or zoom out). When I playback the sequence in Final Cut Pro everything looked perfectly fine. But when I exported to Quicktime... from both Final Cut Pro itself as from Compressor I got strange color shifts. I rendered like 10 times and every time two or three photo's were affected with a purple/blueish haze over them. Finally, the 11 time I tried it rendered as it was supposed to. It felt like playing Russian roulette.
The question that is bugging me: what can have caused this?
I tried both HDV and ProRes as timeline setting. What is the best setting for working with still images? And is .tiff the best format to work with or can I better convert to .png or .jpeg?
I hope someone can tell me what happened that horrible night.

The problem is that you haven't answered Jerry's question. it is very difficult to troubleshoot these sort of questions from a distance if you don't systematically check for the obvious things. Jerry is one of the best resources here and if he suggests a possible solution, it's a good idea to explore that first.
Message was edited by: Michael Grenadier

After Efftect to FCP color Shift

I am compositing video from FCP in After Effects out put back to FCP matching formats and get the RGB to YUV color shift. I understand why but not how to correct the problem. I have tried the sequence setting and selected render in RGB but the releative difference remains the same. I started a new sequence and selected render in RGB before puting any video in but the difference remains.
What am I missing?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
M

Only thing I can think of is a work around... Process all the clips that are going to be part of the AE effect thru AE, so that the color is the same when you get to the effect. (hide the shift that way). It's a work around... you should report this to Apple too in FCP feedback.
Jerry

AE to PSD to FCP color shift

I've ready a few posts and cant seem to correct this.
I have an 1920x1080 After Effects CC project has a simpe 3 part animation to it.
A :15 OPEN that animates to a STILL FRAME and then an :15 OUTRO.
The STILL FRAME is exported from AE (COMP TO LAYERED PSD) that the client will add headshots to and then export a number PNGs to be brought into FCP7 (NOT X) and place between the OPEN and CLOSE. Simple Template.
In FCP7 The ANIMATION and the STILLS (PNGs) all line up perfectly except for the color shift.
I've ready about the gamma 1.8 .2...., QT, PRORES, etc...
I've tried a few settings, but I must be missing something.
Any help to what or where needs to be set in AE, PSD or FCP or QT7, QTX to get this to match?
under the gun.
(weird! looks fine when I do it in FCX, but client only uses FCP7.)
THANKS!

Only thing I can think of is a work around... Process all the clips that are going to be part of the AE effect thru AE, so that the color is the same when you get to the effect. (hide the shift that way). It's a work around... you should report this to Apple too in FCP feedback.
Jerry

Color discrepancy with imported PSD between Motion and FCP

I've got a Motion project with an imported PSD file as a background element (the PSD was created in Photoshop CS2 for Windows, running under Parallels).
The PSD file consists of two overlapping curved shapes, one blue, one green (part of our corporate look). The colors (RGB) match our official guidelines.
I imported the Motion project to FCP and placed it on the timeline, on V1. In FCP, I then used a color generator to create a small blue rectangle which would serve as a border for a slightly smaller thumbnail image that would get overlaid later on. The rectangle is on V2. I used the exact same RGB values for it as I did in Photoshop for the curved shape.
Trouble is, the blue color in the shape that got imported into FCP inside the Motion project doesn't match the generated color.
See this screenshot, in FCP:
http://elamaton.no-ip.com/~jarkko/colordiscrepancymotion.png
Three blues: leftmost, the color generator resized to a small rectangle; on the center, the shape that I created in Photoshop and imported into a Motion project, dropped into FCP; rightmost, an instance of Photoshop CS2 running in a virtual WinXP in Parallels Desktop. You'll notice that the blues of the generator and Photoshop match, but the middle shape that travelled the CS2->Motion->FCP route is a different shade.
Narrowing it down further, I decided to import the PSD file directly into FCP (just to see if it'd match - it needs to go through Motion for the final product). Here's a screengrab of Canvas this time:
http://elamaton.no-ip.com/~jarkko/colordiscrepancy_motion2.png
Again, from left to right: the generated rectangle, the directly imported PSD, the PSD in the imported Motion project. The first two match, but something in Motion or the Photoshop->Motion route screws up the colors of the blue-green shape (as well as the Työterveyslaitos logo on the top left, also a PSD, in the same Motion project). The blue shade is also incorrect in the Motion canvas, pre-import to FCP.
What's going on here, and how can I fix things?
The project settings are PAL DV in both FCP and Motion. No rendering has been done, I'm importing the .motn into FCP as-is.
Any help is greatly appreciated, deadlines loom...

First, double-check that your PSD is in RGB, but I suspect it it or it wouldn't even work in FCP. I suspect a gamma issue moving between the apps:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93794
You might try setting the colorspace in FCP to RGB or adding a gamma filter in Motion to adjust.
Mark

Soundtrack pro round tripping to FCP

Hello,
I've been using FCP for a while now but I'm new to soundtrack Pro and working my way through the Apple Pro Training Series: Sound Editing in Final Cut Studio and soundtrack Pro. Everything is going fine and i'm getting into it - even if a bit slowly!
However when I've tried to do the round-tripping back into FCp the file doesn't appear like it says it will after export. I've just done Lesson 3 in the book (with the same thing happening to me in lesson 2) where I have finished my edit in Soundtrack Pro and I go to export, the process bar comes up and then it takes me back to FCP and my OLD sequence but the NEW sequence doesn't appear. The book says the import XML dialog will appear but it doesn't .....
I can import it manually by going to where I have saved the exported file but surely the whole idea of this round-tripping is to do it for you so you don't have to search for it...
Does anyone have any ideas why this is? Is it just as simple as something is ticked or selected somewhere?
Thanks

hallo kraut cutter,
köln ist nicht weit weg von kupferzell.
hattes du das gleiche problem wie wir das du eine xml datei aus einem mehrspur soudtrack projekt nicht
mehr importieren konntest, und konnten dirdie software rebellen
mir ihrem tool gezielt helfen.
ich hab eau fder website keinen hinweis auf die problemlösung entdecken können.
trotzdem danke erstmal für deinen hinweis.
das tool kann sicher viele probleme lösen.
gibt es nach der installation so eine art systemcheck mit hinweisen auf
probleme oder fängt das tool gleich an hausputz zu machen auf dem rechner.
gruss armin

Round trips motion with FlexMotion

I am EAGERLY looking for a LabView routine that allows the M-UTM150CC.1 motorized stage (driven through the ESP 100 controller) to perform a choosable number of round trips with the same velocity profile as it already has for one way out (for one way out, I have already the code)
Is the FlexMotion card could solve my problem? How much does it cost?

We bought in 1996 the FlexMotion 1035 (ISA card) which was at that time built by nuLogic, a startup from the MIT. Someone from nuLogic has been employed by National Instruments, I would like to get in touch with him to know what are the differences between the model PCI-7334 you propose me and the above one.
PLEASE answer me SOON because it is PRESSING
The references written on the card are the following:
FM 1035
Solder side L6 Rev-B
Made in U.S.A. 1994
P/N 5200-0005
nuLogic Inc. ECCC4 94 VO 2595
nuMotion BD
BD. COMP side L1 Rev-B

'Send to' round trip

I've worked on scores of documentaries and I cannot remember a single time that once the colour grade is 'complete' it is not tinkered with at a later stage. My question is, what is the best way to go back into Color after the project has been sent back to FCP? I read a while back that in order to do so you have to manually find the render of the shot you wish to change, delete it in the finder, re-render the shot in Color and send back to FCP. Well, I've tried this and cannot get it to work. Is anyone else having this problem?
Also does it not bother anyone that there is no sound in Color? I know directors who will be appalled by this as they will, quite rightly, say that they can't judge a mute colour grade.
Color has so much promise but a long way to go. I kinda get why the round trip is a one off, as Final Touch wasn't developed like Motion was for instance, but I think Apple need to get the functionality of 'open in editor' into this workflow. I'll be posting my feedback to them...
Mac Pro Dual-Quad 3.0Ghz Mac OS X (10.4.9) AJA Kona 3

What I've found is that after
re-rendering shots and going back into FCP I get a
momentary 'Media Offline' and then it reconnects to
the unaltered render file instead of the new one - so
nothing changes! Frustrating!
Here's the deal...
When both apps are open, Color can't render and overwrite a file in use by another open app - in this case, FCP.
Color does render out the clip, but appends the clip name.
It is annoying not being able to keep both apps open. What I'll do - after tweaking each shot I'll add them to the Render Que and then do the Render at the end of the day.
- pi
Dual 2.5 Mac OS X (10.4.9) Decklink HD Pro, ATI x800 XT

Sleeping Round Trip Adjustments in Progress

I just edited a peace last night in FCP6 last night. I sent the sequence to Color-v1.0.4 and done all of the primary color tweaks then saved.
I did not close either program (FCP6 or Color) and left them open as i slept from 5:30 - 11am.
then i came back to the project WOKE the computer. Color was still open but now my proresHQ footage is jumpy in Color.
1st the dumb question:
How do you save and close your programs if you are in the middle of a round trip.
Will this stuttering be cleared up in FCP?
Is this a usual behavior?

Go ahead and save and quit. You don't need FCP open to run color, it is referencing the original media. They are stand-alone project files once they are created.
After you render, they will probably be fine in FCP. Do a test, it can't hurt anything.

Trouble with the round trip from Soundtrack Pro 2 to Final Cut Pro

I have edited a home movie together. I then have sent the sequence to Color for grading and then after completing the Color changes and Rendering. I sent it back to Final Cut Pro. It starts out working fine but during the transfer process it stops at somewhere between 50% and 60%. It is during the "Importing XML Data" phase. It just sits there and does not change and I have to force quit to get out of it. The exact same thing happens when I try to round trip from Soundtrack Pro 2 back to Final Cut Pro. So I am unable to make use of the changes I make in these programs.
This is a round trip process that I have successfully made many times before. Nothing has changed. I am working in Final Cut Studio 2 with the latest updates on an Intel Mac. Any advice on how to remedy this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Make sure your easy setup has the correct frame rate for your sequence. Seems crazy but somehow or other fcp assigns a frame rate to audio files. I've found this can sometimes be tricky to get right. Here's what I've done to force the issue. Make sure the easy setup frame rate reflects that of the target sequence in fcp. Create a new project. import the audio in the new project. And then copy the clip from the new project to your main project.
Good luck

Motion to FCP round trip color shift

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