MSI K8N Neo4-F Problems

Question

I'm on my very first build and I'm running into problems.  When I power up, all the fans spin up properly and the D-Link LED's go through the usual settings but it gets stuck on the combination that the manual translates into "Initializing Floppy Drive Controller - This will initializing Floppy Drive and controller."  The D-Link LED's just hang there and I've left it alone for a couple minutes and it still wouldn't budge.  On the screen, sometimes I can see the POST message and other times I see nothing at all on the screen from the various times I've restarted the computer.  Any idea why it's hanging on this certain combination and not booting me to the BIOS setup screens?  These are my system specs...thanks:
MSI K8N Neo4-F Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice
ZALMAN CNPS7000B-AlCu Heatsink
Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-380 ATX12V 380W Power Supply
OCZ Performance Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive
Leadtek 6600GT

Answer 1

I take that into consideration! But as hardware goes, no two are exactly the same. But let's not focus on that, as I believe it could be problems elsewhere.
Posted by: Talannon
Hi!
First, the problem is I made this computer for a friend and when I boot the computer it always freeze at startup. I hear the normal bip when you start the computer then I see the first screen where it says to hit del to enter SETUP but it freeze there. I can't even go into BIOS. I have 2x512 MB in dual channel and when I remove one I can usually be able to go into the bios, then once there I check if everything is there by default ( I already reset cmos ) and it looks good then I reboot and it freeze again. I really don't know what to do...
But I will tell you the whole story. First I get the computer and at first boot I get no video signal. I see that I forgot to put the spacer between MoBo and the case. Then I fix that, comp boot I go into bios. I made another error by setting the FSB speed at 400 mhz because I read that it was going at 400 (I forgot that it was 200 x 2) so I reboot and I get nothing. I reset the cmos by pressing the button then i can get into bios.
From there I changed the boot order and I make it so MSI doesn't show his logo when you boot but you get the POST instead. I exit and save then I start getting that problem... Since then I am not able to go into BIOS unless I play with the memory module. Another thing is when I can't get into BIOS I watch the 4 LEDs on the USB thing you add to the MoBo (definition here http://www.msicomputer.com/support/sup_tshoot.asp#1_3 scroll down a bit). When I can't get into BIOS I get a combination (1 and 3 red) saying "testing base and Extended Memory, Testing base memory from 240k to 640K and extended memory above 1MB using various patterns" and when I changed the memory and I get into the bios (2 red) I get " Initializing Floppy Drive Controller, This will initialize Floppy Drive and controller". I got that from the book that came with the board.
The comp is:
MSI K8N Neo4-F
Athlon 64 3200+
MSI NX6600 TD 256 FX6600 PCI-E
Antec SLK1650 MINI TOWER CASE 350W
Kingston 1024 MB DDR400 Dual KVR
Maxtor 120Gb S-ATA
If anyone can help I would appreciate it! Thank you!
Posted by: Talannon
I will add that I tested the ram on another computer and it works fine. Also, when I only have 1 module of ram installed he start to detect the ide drive and sata HD but when It get to the floppy it fail. From there I can go in the bios but when I restart he won't even start detecting stuff he will only freeze after he wrote the memory testing line and then I can't do nothing... or I can hit continue and it even got started with the windows xp install but it crashed, it didn't take long. Reboot and crash at verifying DMI pool data or something like that after I hit continue again after detect floppy fail.
I tried resetting the cmos then reboot and it said that my config was in overcloaking mode and to reset it on the bios... But there was nothing to change. Also tried to continue there but it stop at Verifying DMI Pool Data.
The bios installed by default is v 1.3, which is the only version there's not on the msi website... strange
Anyway I pretty much said all I could, hope someone could help but I have a feeling that the MoBo as problem...
Posted by: keymaker
hmm......try takin out all of thec computer parts out of the computer case and this time only reseat the following devices: case, motherboard, cpu, ram, and videocard.
also try replacing the floppy cable and see if the computer will be able to detect the floppy this time. good luck
Posted by: Talannon
It still freeze the same way with only cpu ram and video card on mobo...
Posted by: zach1288
Try leaving your battery out longer, Some CMOS batteries can take up to 8 hours to clear.
Posted by: linderman
Welcome to TSF:
two items for consideration
A) what is your power supply and specs / this is by FAR the most underated overlooked component that plays such a vital role / the generics PSU just plain cant cut the mustard / they rely on cheap price to lure sales not performance / it doesnt take much of a fluctuation in power to send the newer systems baulking.
B) download and run memtest86.com on your memory modules / sounds like you may have a trouble maker there. Test them one at a time first / then as a pair
please post back with your findings
regards
joe
Posted by: Talannon
It could still play a role if I go back in bios and the settings seem to be back at normal? (like the FSB at 200 instead of 400 mhz like I tried to change at first.
edit: Power supply is a 350W smart Power by Antec
Posted by: Tumbleweed36
Hi,
An Antec is a great power supply, but frankly, don't think a 350 of anything is big enough to handle what you have. Even an Antec, you probably would need a minimum of a 450 to 480 with a very strong amperage rating. Antec and Enermax is where good power supplies are made if the wattage is what you need. That is the first place I would look after the memory thing is checked.
Posted by: Talannon
So... I made the test with the ram with this computer and the ram seems to have no problem at all.
So I guess I should try with a better power supply? But even a 350W with only the motherboard, cpu/fan, ram and video card would still not be enough to run it? Because I still have problem while running only that... Before I go out and buy a good power supply I would like to make sure it could be the source of the problem.
BTW, thank you all for the help so far, I hope we can find the problem :(
Posted by: Tumbleweed36
Hi,
If you have a Best Buy nearby, go find a good power supply and if it is not the problem, take it back or return it. That way, it would not be an expensive venture that might not solve the problem. Just be careful how you deal with the packaging so you can return it if it does not help. That sounds like the best solution at this time.
Posted by: Talannon
Ok, one other I will add is I noticed a trend. If I start the computer I can usually go all the way and start windows installation but it will stop working right after I hit enter to actually start windows installation. If I reset it will always hang at the beginning and unable to even get into the BIOS...
If I put the ram in dual channel setting it won't even start on first startup. But if it's on single channel it will at least let me go to the bios and such (but never recognized the floppy). Dual channel take more juice to run?
With this in mind is it possible that the mobo and/or cpu still be the cause of the problem?
Anyway I think I will try to get a power supply of at least 450W to test it. Just for testing purpose, can I get any power supply even if it's not antec or enermax as long as it has high voltage? I can test it and if it's working I can always return it and go buy a real power supply from antec or enermax where there is one.
Posted by: ginger6
I dont think it is your power supply, the power supply you have should handle what you have got no problem, the problem will be your memory...... are the 2 memory sticks you have identical, ie: same manufacturer, same speed, same chips on the board..... to run in dual channel mode you need both sticks to be exactly identical otherwise you will have problems.
What brand is the memory, if it is a cheap brand then you may have compatibilty problems.
Have you run memtest86 when both sticks are inserted but not in dual channel mode?
Kevin
live links of this type are no longer allowed outside of the advertising form
dai
Posted by: Tumbleweed36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talannon
Ok, one other I will add is I noticed a trend. If I start the computer I can usually go all the way and start windows installation but it will stop working right after I hit enter to actually start windows installation. If I reset it will always hang at the beginning and unable to even get into the BIOS...
If I put the ram in dual channel setting it won't even start on first startup. But if it's on single channel it will at least let me go to the bios and such (but never recognized the floppy). Dual channel take more juice to run?
With this in mind is it possible that the mobo and/or cpu still be the cause of the problem?
Anyway I think I will try to get a power supply of at least 450W to test it. Just for testing purpose, can I get any power supply even if it's not antec or enermax as long as it has high voltage? I can test it and if it's working I can always return it and go buy a real power supply from antec or enermax where there is one.
Hi,
Before you go out and get another power supply, you need to make sure you have everything hooked up correctly.
Try flipping the floppy cable over and see if the BIOS recognizes it. That is a common mistake that all of us make from time to time. The red stripe (pin 1) goes toward the power plug on that one and it is opposite as a rule from the other ribbon cables, because the normal power plug on the hard drives have the power plug on the opposite side.
Second, tell us exactly what drives you have and how you have them hooked up...here is an example: Maxtor 30 gig IDE, set as master, on the end of the ribbon cable, and connected to IDE #1.
Third, the memory thing does seem to be an issue. Is the memory that you have listed on the QVL list in the motherboard manual?
For now, for testing purposes, just leave one stick of Ram in the board, and do follow the instructions in the manual about where that single stick should be. As an example, some boards require that when you use a single stick, that it is in Dimm2, Dimm3, or even Dimm4 instead of Dimm 1. That feature is new to some who don't regularly build, so please check that out before you go too far.
Let us know these things and we will try to get right back to you.
Posted by: Talannon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed36
Try flipping the floppy cable over and see if the BIOS recognizes it. That is a common mistake that all of us make from time to time. The red stripe (pin 1) goes toward the power plug on that one and it is opposite as a rule from the other ribbon cables, because the normal power plug on the hard drives have the power plug on the opposite side.
It will only go in the way I put it. Other thing is the power supply is an ATX with 20 pin. My manual says it should work but it also says that I could use a 24 pin SSI power supply but never use those. Again I am sure the power supply is in correctly cause I couldn't plug it any other way anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed36
Second, tell us exactly what drives you have and how you have them hooked up...here is an example: Maxtor 30 gig IDE, set as master, on the end of the ribbon cable, and connected to IDE #1.
Maxtor 160 gig connected on sata 1 and there doesn't seem to ba master/slave option. Is it because it's SATA? It also seems to be detected as IDE THIRD Master on the first page.
LG DVD +/- RW in master on ide 1
Nothing on IDE 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed36
Third, the memory thing does seem to be an issue. Is the memory that you have listed on the QVL list in the motherboard manual?
My ram is PC3200 (DDR 400) it's supported from what I can read in the book
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed36
For now, for testing purposes, just leave one stick of Ram in the board, and do follow the instructions in the manual about where that single stick should be. As an example, some boards require that when you use a single stick, that it is in Dimm2, Dimm3, or even Dimm4 instead of Dimm 1. That feature is new to some who don't regularly build, so please check that out before you go too far.
Manual says it should be in a green slot first which is dimm 1 and 3. I put it in dimm 1 ans it should be fine. The setup like it is now, is in the combination list in the manual.
Posted by: Talannon
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginger6
I dont think it is your power supply, the power supply you have should handle what you have got no problem, the problem will be your memory...... are the 2 memory sticks you have identical, ie: same manufacturer, same speed, same chips on the board..... to run in dual channel mode you need both sticks to be exactly identical otherwise you will have problems.
What brand is the memory, if it is a cheap brand then you may have compatibilty problems.
Have you run memtest86 when both sticks are inserted but not in dual channel mode?
Kevin
I've only run test with the ram installed separately...
I also bought my ram as dual channel so I got a kit from Kingston KVR. So they should be identical to each other. Kingston is in the list of supported memory on MSI webpage of the motherboard...
Posted by: Talannon
So I tested the both ram at the same time but in single channel and no error.
One thing I notice is when I boot the ram is showed to go at 201 mhz instead of 200. Not sure if it says something...
Posted by: whodatknocking
Quote:
First I get the computer and at first boot I get no video signal. I see that I forgot to put the spacer between MoBo and the case. 
this might be a real problem, we'll see
but first:
go into your bios and relaxe the timings on your ram, maybe 3-4-4-8
pump the voltage up on the ram a notch,to maybe 2.7 or 2.8
post back
Posted by: Talannon
humm I'm not sure what I should be looking for in the bios for that.
If I put Timing mode in manual instead of auto I can change a bunch of thing. I have no idea what you mean by 3-4-4-8... There is something in that called CAS# latency (Tcl) which is by default at 2.5 but could change it to 2.0 or 3.0. Is that the voltage?
Posted by: whodatknocking
try 3
no it isnt the voltage, the voltage would be in another spot in the bios
post back
Posted by: Talannon
changed nothing
I guess I am to a point to check the cpu on another socket 939 MoBo to see if it's the cpu or the MoBo the problem. With everything we tried I start to doubt it could be anything else.