MSI NX6800 Ultra - Power Problems

I have a power-problem with this little baby
When I start windows it says that it doesnt get enough power, so the performance have been "decreased" (cant remember exact words)
My PSU delivers 18a over 12v
http://www20.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/power_supplies-15.html
(detailed picture of PSU and what power it delivers)
I've tryed without USB, only 1HD etc. to make sure the system used as little power as possible, but still get the "not enough power" message in windows
When I look at the GFX card and the power-cords, there IS a brown cord sticking out of it !?
There is 2 brown cords comming from each of the plugs I connect to my PSU, and it then merge into a little plug that actually fit into the bigger plug that goes into the GFX card. But as if its been taken out ? I have a slight feeling this could be the problem ?
But the question is, there is two empty holes in the plug I put into the GFX card where the brow-cord-plug fits. Anyone out there who have the same GFX and know if this brown plug is supposed to be in the GFXpower-plug ? and If so is it supposed to be in the lower or upper hole ?

First thing we need to know is more information on what your system is. We can't do any diagnosis on a system without knowing what it is. I have a hard time believing with any system that 18amps on the 12v rail would be enough to power that video card with the rest of the system. Once we get all (I mean everything, add your on signature like mine that includes all hard ware on the system, for more info check out the moan guide it has the information you need to properly list your system.
As far as the brown cord, I don't know. Hopefully someone else with the knowledge can post in here.
Please follow the above so we can better help you.
Thanks
Jeremy

Similar Messages

  • MSI FX950 Ultra Bootup problem

    Hi All
    I have a problem on bootup where the M/B alarm will sound it will not bootup and the all case and CPU fans are running except the fans on the Video card. If I turn the pc of and on a few times it will suddenly come back to life the fans on the video card will run and the M/B will bootup into windows fine.
    Has anyone else experienced this kind of behaviour and or what can be causing
    this?
    M/B MSI K7N2 Delta ILSR
    AMD 2800+ Barton
    Crucial Memory 2X 512MB DDR 3200 Dual Channel (CT6464Z40B.16T) 64MX64
    MSI FX5950 Ultra VTD256
    Antec True 550w Power Supply
    Thanks

    Andy,
    If it sounds like a Siren going off, it is your CPU over heating.
    If it is a beeping, then check the DLED and tell us what it says the problem is.
    Take Care,
    Richard

  • MSI 745 Ultra RAM Problem!!!

    Hello,
    I currently have a MSI 745 Ultra Motherboard with the latest installed firmware.
    Ok here is my problem.
    I bought 2 sticks of ram from http://www.crucial.com/uk, the memory was 512MB 333Mhz.  I instantly started getting errors within windows, something like "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" and "PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA", the error occurred totally at random, the computer can be running for 5 mins or 5 hours before the error occurs and I can be doing anything from playing a game or browsing the internet.
    First thing I did was run memtest to see if there was a fault with the memory, It found no errors at all.
    Second thing I tried was to reinstall windows, This didnt solve the error ethier.
    Third thing I tried was to only use one memory module, This is the odd thing, Both memory modules work fine on there own with no errors at all.
    Can you please help?
    Barry

    Quote
    Which Windows (e.g. 9x, ME, 2K/XP)?
    Windows XP
    Quote
    Are all DRAM timings set to default or auto detect in BIOS?
    They are all set to the motherboards default
    Quote
    Have you tried moving the second module into the third DIMM socket?
    Yes I have tried all three ram sockets, they all work fine when 1 ram stick is in and I have tried every combination of 2 ram sticks.
    Quote
    post some system specs like mine in my sig down there, cpu what fsb,
    try fsb/dram ratio at 1:1 in bios.
    Athlon XP 2400+  266fsb
    MSI 745 Ultra Bio Version 1.7
    2x512MB 333Mhz Crucial DDR
    Radeon 9800 pro 128MB
    Soundblaster Live
    2x120GB Maxtor Harddisks 7200RPM
    Pioneer 105 DVD-R(W)
    Liteon 16x DVD Drive
    Nexus NX-3500 350W 3.3v - 28A / 5v - 30A / 12v - 18A
    I hope all this information helps you try to solve my problem
    Barry

  • MSI 745 Ultra Boot Problem 2

    This board does not boot up correctly  .
    Here is what happens:
    The boot process starts correctly. First the fans spin up, the bios beeps once, but then a couple of seconds later the pc speaker starts beeping indefinitely and the computer hangs at the MSI splash screen (where it says press del to enter setup- however no keyboard input works).
    THe D-Bracket diagnostic LED shows 1 red, 2 green, 3 red, 4 green, which translates to "testing base and extended memory." However, the memory passes the "memory detection test" and appears to be a good stick...unless it is somehow incompatible with this board.
    Spec
    MSI 745 Ultra
    Athlon XP 1600+
    ATI Radeon 9000 AGP
    256mb PC2100 ram generic
    Generic 300 watt psu
    is the board faulty, I have tried everything mentioned on this forum!

    Do you have CPU fan that changes it's speed when cpu temp grows higher? My mobo did that b4 i disabled "check cpu fan" from bios. If  you have you could try to keep your computer in that beep state untill cpu fan starts rotating fast enough. Then u boot and go to bios and disable "check cpu fan" and then that should work.. But only if you have same problem as i had..

  • Linux and MSI KT4 Ultra : DVD problems

    Hi, I own an MSI KT4 Ultra Pure mobo.  The vt8235 Southbridge is supported in the lastest version of the Linux Kernel, 2.4.20 . After upgrading the kernel all seems to work fine, but when the system try to initialize my hdc (Secondary master of IDE, a DVD reader DV-5800A from NEC) it locks up with the message :
    hdc: device {Busy}
    hdc: drive not ready for command
    ide1: reset success!!
    and start looping with this message.
    What can I do to get work my DVD Reader? With my precedent MoBo it works perfectly
    Thanks
    Bye

    Hmmm that error used to happen with an older kernel and an ALI chipset. If you leave it long enough does it give up trying and continue to boot? The ALI did this eventualy.

  • MSI KT4V-L Ultra Power Problems

    Hi,
    Sorry if this is a dumb question but I need an answer quickly and this seemed the best place to ask...
    I have just built a system with the following specs:
    MSI KT4V-L Ultra
    Athlon XP 2100
    256 DDR 2700
    350 W PS (came with a fairly exspensive case)
    32MB TNT 2
    Built it - fired up no problem with case open. Installed Windows 98 no problem. Installed a few more items of software - no problem. Everything running - no crashes/stability issues.
    I then re-attatched the sides and front of the case, and turn the PC on. Nothing happens. I turn off the switch at the back of the power supply and then turn it on again. Upon pressing the power button on the case the Diagnostic LEDs + case power LED flash very briefly and then nothing. The Power supply fan does not turn.
    Does this problem sound like the mobo or the PSU?  I know the next stage is to test the PSU on its own but unfortunatley I can't do that from work!
    Has anyone come across a problem like this before? My instinct tells me it is the PSU as I have changed nothing on the mobo - Any help/advice really appreciated!

    Thanks - I'm really hoping it's not the mobo.
    Would that explain why there is power for a fleeting moment before it dies?
    If I try the power switch at the front again after one failure nothing at all happens - until I turn the Power supply switch off and then on again...
    What is the easiest way to test the switch - would shorting the two Power Switch pins on the motherboard do it?
    (Is this a common problem?!?)

  • MSI 770-C45 power problem

    Hi. I have a problem with my MSI 770-C45. When i turn on my computer, nothing happens. On motherboard only 1LED is ON.
    CPU: AMD Athlon X2 240
    MB: MSI 770-C45
    PSU: Corsair VS450
    COOLER: Fera PRO
    GPU: GeForce 7300GT
    RAM: Kingston 4GB and 2x2GB
    All fans are working. When i turn it on, i can't turn it off (power button) .
    What is problem?
    Sorry for my English, but i'm from Poland.

    remove the RAM and reinstall it as miss seated RAM is common to happen (press them down on both corners at the same time till both catches on each DIMM slot click into place)!
    also have you connected the 4 pin CPU power connector?

  • Msi 6800 ultra clock problems

    just got this card .  and should it not run at 425 core default and 1.1 on rams ..
    my card only runs 400 on default settings !? ..

    Do not hit the Default button as that is the settings for the min requirements. I have had the same problem with my FX5900 card before and found this out.

  • MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU power supply problem

    Hello !
    I am a lucky owner of MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU motherboard but have one problem. My power supply Fortron (FSP Group) 300-GT 300W seems to have some kind of incompatibility with this motherboard. In my case, the computer can't be shutted down by software. With BIOS version 2.5 it was impossible to shut it down with button too. With 2.6 it is possible to turn the computer off by button but software shutdown still don't work. PSU is working on ALL other boards I have tested so far normally. Somewhere in discussions (not in this forums) I discovered that also some kind of weird sounds occurs with Fortron supply on this board and that it is incompatible. Have anyone some clues to solve this PSU problem ? I am not able momentally to buy some other kind of PSU because Fortron is the only brand from higher category to obtain, so I would be like to solve this.....
    Thanks for any info !

    Voltage readings from sensors (current data):
    w83697hf-isa-0290
    Adapter: ISA adapter
    Algorithm: ISA algorithm
    VCore:     +1.76 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +0.00 V)
    +3.3V:     +3.34 V  (min =  +2.97 V, max =  +3.63 V)
    +5V:       +4.89 V  (min =  +4.50 V, max =  +5.48 V)
    +12V:     +11.89 V  (min = +10.79 V, max = +13.11 V)
    -12V:     -12.44 V  (min = -13.21 V, max = -10.90 V)
    -5V:       -5.01 V  (min =  -5.51 V, max =  -4.51 V)
    V5SB:      +5.51 V  (min =  +4.50 V, max =  +5.48 V)
    VBat:      +3.42 V  (min =  +2.70 V, max =  +3.29 V)
    fan1:     4560 RPM  (min = 1500 RPM, div = 4)
    fan2:     2033 RPM  (min = 1500 RPM, div = 4)
    temp1:       +40°C  (limit =  +60°C)                       sensor = thermistor
    temp2:     +44.5°C  (limit =  +60°C, hysteresis =  +50°C) sensor = thermistor
    PSU is powering Athlon XP 1700+ processor, the other big power consumer is GeForce4 Ti 4200 GPU. I am not able read currents for specific voltage outputs, so I am not able to measure whole power consumption. Computer is working normally, it is NOT overclocked (but it is stable overclocked too) and the only problem is PSU shutdown by software (win & linux, both of them has this problem). From BIOS v2.6 it is possible to shutdown the computer by power button. If it is tried by software, computer resets itself and three beeps occurs.

  • NX6800 Ultra T2D256 Power problem...

    I have read all threads I can find on the NX6800 Ultra T2D256 but can't find the solution. I keep getting the "power down because not enough power" error at the start up of XP Home. With the Thermaltake Purepower 560w ps, I'd think it is more than enough to power this card. I have installed the card in my son's computer and he get's the same msg. I have made sure the pins are tight and making contact, it's set up on one rail, and I have tried every combonation I can think of. I called Thermaltake and they say it should run the card fine so they are sending me a replacment ps. For some reason I just don't feel the replacment will do it. Could it be the card? Or is it the slow AMD 2100 CPU? I don't what that would have to do with the power problem of the video card though... I'm pritty sure everting is up to date but I could have missed something...
    Any suggestions would be appreciated...
    Oooops... no sig line...
    Avalanche
    A7V600-X mobo
    OCZ 512 x 2 duel channel mem
    AMD XP2100 CPU
    T-take ps 560w (Silent Purepower)

    Ok, I will try the 2 power cables again and I take it that nothing else but the card should be run on those 2 lines?
    Also, that leaves me with only 2 power lines to run 2 cd/cdr, 2 HD's, and 1 floppy. I also have 5 case fans.
    Now can you point me to an explination of what "replacing all the AGP/Gart drivers and doing a driver clean on the NVidia drivers" is?
    I am running the ATI 850Pro on that computer right now so I know to un-install the ATI drivers of course before installng the NVidia card. I have never heard of "Gart" and didn't know there were seperate AGP drivers from the mother board drivers...
    Still got a lot to learn and thank you for all your help...

  • MSI KT3 ultra aru Western Digital 200GB raid problem

    Hi!
    This is what I've got.
    KT3 Ultra-ARU (MS-6380E)
    AMD 2000+
    256 MB 333mhz RAM (AMD Compatible)
    Seagate ST330630A 30GB (an old drive)
    Maxtor 6L080J4 80GB
    Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 6Y080L0 80Gb 7200rpm 2Mb UDMA133 Fluid IDE
    Western Digital Caviar WD1800JB 180Gb 7200rpm Special Edition UDMA100 IDE
    Western Digital Caviar WD2000JB 200Gb 7200rpm Special Edition UDMA100 IDE
    Promise 100 IDE-controller
    Creative Geforce MX 440
    Lite-on LTR-40125W
    NEC ND-1300 DVD
    And the configuration:
    IDE1: Seagate (Master)
    IDE2: WD1800BG (Cabel Select)
    IDE3(Raid1): Maxtor 6LO80J4 (Master) and Maxtor 6Y080L0 (Slave) raided as an single drive
    IDE4(Raid2): WD2000JB (Cable Select)
    IDE5(IDE-controller1):
    IDE6(IDE-controller2): NEC ND-1300 (Master) and Lite-on LTR-40125W (Slave)
    And the Software:
    I've updated all the software drivers so I've got the newest and I'm currently runnign Win2k SP3 with almost every patch installed on it.
    And finally the problem:
    When I've hook my WD2000JB to the on-board raid everything seems to be working normaly. The bios finds the drive and makes a new array. Win2k boots up and finds the drive and I can create an partition. But when I've try to format it it the computer starts to freeze for a while and then acts like normal again. The HDD-led blinks as it should during the "normal" time, but when the comp. freezes it stops blinking. The formatation stops at 7% and the HDD-led stops lighting. I don't get an error eventhough it was several hours since it stoped. And the formatation takes like 30min for 1%.
    When I connect the WD2000JB to the IDE3 I can format it and it acts just like normal. I even did a full system test with the System tool found on Western Digitals support site and it didn't find any errors. But when move it to the raid-IDE the errors return. I've get Error reading / writing to disk and when I've did a chkdsk I've got the "Coudn't use Device) so I did a scandisk and it found very very many errors so it completly ereased everything that was on it.
    And when I've run Western Digitals program again i've get an error (Disk error read/writing) error code: 0113.
    Can it be that the Western Disk doesn't work well with Raid? I've haven't heard anything about that, so...
    Best regars,
    Mathias

    You can have a look at my hardware below...
    Chassis: Antec 1080B (300w PSU / 180w COMBINED)
    Mainboard: MSI KT3 Ultra ARU
    CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1800+
    Display: ABIT Siluro GF4 Ti4200 AGP 4X
    DVD/CD-RW Combo: HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4120B
    Floppy: Panasonic 1.44MB
    HD: Quantum Fireball Plus/AS 30.0GB UDMA 100
    Keyboard: Microsoft Internet Keyboard Pro
    Monitor: KDS Visual Sensations VS-190
    Mouse: Microsoft USB Wheel Mouse Optical
    NICs: 3Com 3C900B / DLink DFE-530TX
    RAM: Micron DDR 266MHz (2x256MB DIMMs)
    Sound: Avance AC'97 Audio
    I've had similar problems where my system becomes very unstable at higher bus speeds. Installing Windows XP simply didn't work very good. However, I have ordered a new PSU today as a solution to this problem. Basically, CPUs and video cards are much more demanding and the more devices you have in your computer the more power you're going to need. I recommend purchasing the Enermax EG465P-VE (FCA) 450W ATX PS. It has a higher amperage rating and will most likely solve your problem.
    Check your PSU and your bus speed settings...

  • [GeForce 6] MSI GeForce NX6800 128 TD problem

    Hi!
    Five months ago I bougth a new video card mentioned in topic title (MSI NX6800 128 TD). After a few weeks of use my system began to freeze and occured a lots of BSOD (with error code KERNEL INPAGE ERROR or KERNEL STACK ERROR, rarely PAGE FAULT AT NONPAGED AREA) when I ran a 3D application/game approximately 2-30 minutes. These symptoms often means memory error so I tested my DDR RAMs to be sure none of them is damaged. Memtest86 found no errors in my DDR memory. I opened the pc case to check the vga and as I touched it, the copper heatsink was very hot (maybe that is normal). I thougth that an overheat of vga memories should have caused the freezes. The fan of the vga was set to 4000 RPM (maximum), so it was very strange that can be overheated (no overclocking of course). After that I applied an external fan to cool the memories of the vga and opened the case for good air flow, but the BSODs didn't disappeared. I could run games a little bit longer after these modifications but no more than 2-3 hours. The temperature of the GPU is 52 Celsius (2D like Windows) to 60 Celsius (3DMark 2005). I don't know whether it is high or normal (I guess it is not too high, because core slowdown temperature is set to 135 Celsius by factory default), and I don't know the temperature of the vga memories (I guess it is higher than the gpu's because of higher frequency).My question is how to decrease the temperature of gpu and memories (if they are high)? I use official MSI drivers, and no other hardvare is damaged in my PC. Any idea?

    andriscs,
    Sorry to here of your troubles still. A weak PSU can cause all sorts of problems
    Quote from: andriscs on 06-May-05, 18:39:31
    My question: can the failing PSU cause such problem like DirectX draw failure? I guess my NX6800 could draw 2D shapes so this error could be originated from my dying PSU?
    Buying the new PSU is a sound investment that will help to protect your system and allow for upgrades even if, on the odd chance, it doesn't solve your problems. You wouldn't drive your car with watered down fuel to save money would you?
    Quote from: andriscs on 08-May-05, 07:40:21
    Hi!
    I really hate my computer. It freezed when I was working on an important document so my work was compromised. On Monday when the first computer shop opens, I will rush to it, and will buy the new PSU and I won't care whether its price is 1000 euros. If my computer will fail with the new PSU I will obsolete it and will use as a low quality commode. If I were a wizard my first deed would be that I would create a chipset with only one chip on it that handles graphics, acts as memory and CPU and sound card, stores information and directly takes power from main electricity network and its price is about 5 euros for easy replace. This would be worth not this "one little piece kills all the system"-thing. Neumann (who was born in Hungary so he was my compatriot) should have thought about comformization and his theory should have been based on it.
    Where would the fun be if everthing was standardized. As much as we all complain about stuff, would life not be boring without these challenges?
    Lets us know how it goes. You may be just fine with the new PSU.
    Jerry

  • MSI - NX6800 GT driver installation problem

    Hello,
    I've got a tricky problem, i'll try to give as much details as possible, so if i forget something, just ask =)
    My Configuration :
    Motherboard : Asus A7n8X Deluxe (first version)
    CPU : Athlon XP 2400+
    RAM : 1.5Gb (DDR Ram)
    Graphic Card : MSI - NX6800 GT (256 Mb)
    Hard Drives : 80GB(Western Digital) and 250Gb(Hitachi)
    Ok, i haven't put too many hardware informations because apparently the problem isnt coming from the hardware side.
    First, i've been running with this configuration (just without the second hard drive), for a year and a half, on Windows 2000, and it's been working fairly fine. No problems detected.
    i've acquired a second Hard Drive a few weeks ago (the 256 Gb one), so i've decided to put a fresh install of XP on it.
    Installed XP without any problems, but it's while installing the drivers that the problem popped up.
    I've installed Windows XP Professional on my newly acquired Hard Drive (the 250Gb one), and then tried to reinstall the latest NVidia Drivers for the Geforce.
    I've first installed the drivers of the motherboard (1.16 from Asus), then i installed Direct X 9.0c, and i finally installed the latest Nvidia drivers for GFX Cards (91.31).
    Unfortunately, right in the middle of the installation of these drivers, the screen switched to black, then went to sleep mode (like if there was no video output). Finally the computer reboots, and i have to use the latest working configuration to be able to go back to Windows XP again.
    I've tried with different versions of the drivers for the motherboard and for the Geforce 6800 GT, but still the same problem.
    So for now i'm still using only my first Hard Drive with Windows 2000 on it, till we find what to do to solve the problem. (and since it works on Windows 2000, the problem can only be a software one).
    Thank you in advance for your help!
    PS : Here is the detail of the 1.16 drivers from Asus :
    This nForce WinXP driver package contains the below components:
    Audio driver 3.14 (WHQL'd)
    Audio utilities 3.07
    Network driver 2.81 (WHQL'd)
    GART driver 2.78 (WHQL'd)
    SMBus driver 2.75 (WHQL'd)
    Memory controller driver 2.75 (WHQL'd)
    IDE driver 2.70 In The Box (WHQL'd)
    IDE driver 3.07 Full Driver
    Installer 3.11

    I've already tried the Vid Card on another comp, and it works without any problems there.
    I've been making an hypothesis, though the chance that its coming from that is very slim i think.
    A bit more than a year ago, there was a storm(pretty violent and really near my house), and my comp was plugged on (though it was shut down). After that incident, 2 USB slots of my mobo were dead, along with one network card on it. But the rest was working fine. So i've been working if it couldnt have affected a bit the rest. I have no idea how it works whn installing new drivers, about the tests it does with the system and hte hardware. But if it tries to take full power on the vid card, it might be that. I dont know how i could verify that though.

  • PROBLEMS AGAIN, MSI KT4 ULTRA GIVE POOR STABILITY IN MY SYSTEM!!!

    Hi, i get problems when overclock (fsb) my cpu with 133 fsb to 136 ONLY!!! , only support the overclock my cpu 1800(1533mhz)--to(1580mhz), high fsb 137 or high  freeze , restart  my system when run games or aplication with geforce 3 ddr 64mb, i modify vol agp to 1.8 , but get error again.  
    HELP ME!!!
    I NEED NEW BIOS THAT  STABILIZE MY SYSTEM!!!
    System:
    MSI KT4-ULTRA 6590-SR
    CPU XP 1800+
    256 DDR SANSUMG
    T.VIDEO GEFORCE 3 DDR 64 detonator 41.09 agp4x
    WINDOWS XP PRO SPK1
    POWER 350 WATTS CODEGEN

    Thanks for you help, but my power 350 watts codegen work a:
    20A---3.3v
    30a---5v
    However i read guide revision 12-12-02 about psu and all configuration is correct  !!!!!!
    My powersupply not is problem
    I NEED THAT MSI MAKE NEW BIOS FOR KT4-ULTRA!!
    Thanks  

  • MSI 645 ultra xp / 2000 problem please help.

    I've got 3 MSI 645 ultra mobos. I've tried every thing i can think off to get xp installed and working. I don't get as far as formating the hard disk in the setup. I relpaced the power supply with a qtec 550 watt power supply (the gold one). i've flashed the bios to 1.9, i've used different hardisks and cables. I've checked the memory PC2100 and 2700. It's a pentium 4 1.5, I've tried a 2g in it as well. I'm using an ATI radeon 7500 but have tried a s3 agp card. All the other components work fine in another machine but not on my 3 MSI boards.
    Please help some one out there must have had the same problem. I'll buy the first person who fixes it cakes!!!
    Ta
    Gus

    Hi,
    I ran memtest 3.0 and there were no errors. it ran for 9 hours.
    I am only using one hard disk at a time. it's set as a master on IDE1 and the CDrom is on IDE2 as a master. should I use cable select?? I also tried the hard disk and CD on ide2 and that did not work either.
    Ta

Maybe you are looking for

  • Re: suggested edit to hint: Tip - Date and Time in the Menu Bar

    Hi Josh Funnily enough I had to set up a new machine for my daughter a month ago, and used precisely this (GUI) method. I haven't tried it in Tiger, but am assured by several people it also works there. I believe some people were able to do something

  • Persistent socket connection - socket write error

    I'm connecting to a server using sockets. My application acts like a client, sending requests, and also like a server, listenning for notifications. I was using a client socket for the first task (send a message when required) and a server socket for

  • New LiveUpdate NVIDIA drivers posted

    MSI seems to finally have added versions 61.72 and 61.76 of the nvidia geforce fx graphics drivers on their "live update" software. But the download doesn't work (at least for me)...just gives a cryptic IP error. Anyone else seeing this?

  • What is tha latet version of Firefox compatile with MAC OS 10.4.11

    When I down load the latest version of firefox supposidly compatible with my compute I get a message it is not compatible and I should dowm load the latest version tha tis compatible with my system, 10.4.11 running on a G 5 based machine. NOT INTELL!

  • ORACLE/HYPERION PLANNING

    Good afternoon we are looking at implementing ORACLE Planning. We had it 5 years ago, but found it incredibly cumbersome and slow. My questions are as follows: Does it still sit on a block storage essbase cube? or have they figured out how to use ASO