My debian-arch comparison and mem usage

Hi all, I'm a long time debian user and trying arch was itching. The recent signed package feature convinced me to try it.
It installed flawlessly, reminded me of gentoo many years ago, without the waiting.
I'm surprised that xfce uses more memory than my similar minimal debian (testing) install (on both setups I have xfce4, alsa, and not much more).
Under debian I use ~140M once Xfce is started, against 200 for arch (~70 processes running on arch vs 100ish on debian).
Surprised why this is the case. Anybody has an idea?
Pros I found:
very detailed wiki.
pacman is fast!
wine installed without sweat... unlike debian.
I installed some aur packages (fpdb: a poker hud) and the install was easy.
Unfortunately it seems there's a difference arch-other distros regarding python (python2)
and fpdb doesn't like it. There was a hack suggested in the aur but it no longer works with the latest fpdb version.
Given this seems an arch specific issue, fpdb devs seem not concerned (not blaming them) about it (I guess this is a cons of smaller distros).
Tried playing around but haven't found a fix (yet).

brain0 wrote:I think there's a python policy now that every python script must explicitly use "python2" or "python3", and "python" is only meant for interactive usage.
* https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail … 23558.html (beginning of the thread)
* https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail … 23563.html (one of the comments)

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Can apple find a solution for this issue ???
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13" vs 15" MacBook Pro comparison with premiere, final cut and vmware usage

I'm looking to get back into Macs after a long time away (SGI then PC).
I'd really prefer a top spec 13" MacBook Pro (rather than the 15) so long as it does what i want, i'm swapping a vaio for it so i'm used to a certain size.
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Hi,
I've been using my new 13" MBP for about a week now. I've been using Parallels to run XP/Vista/Windows 7 betas and occassionally Server 2003/8 on my MacPro for a couple of years and wanted a similar portable environment. I'm a .NET developer so I use VS2005/8, SQL Server 2005/8 and IIS for testing mostly C# code and database driven ASP.Net web applications.
I was sceptical about all of the above being achievable on this tiny machine (it replaces a much-loved Powerbook G4 and a one year old 15" Acer Aspire, which looks like a breezeblock in comparison) and was initially bracing myself to take the hit of the 2.6Ghz 15" machine with 256MB dedicated graphics. But the people at the Apple suggested I give the smaller, cheaper machine a fourteen day trial and so here I am building a Silverlight site with SQL server backend in Vista. It runs just fine and the sheer portability of this 13" machine along with its cheeky, pint-sized charm means that I'm sticking with it thanks very much
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RFC: Queries about Arch culture and community

Good day everyone,
This is a request for opinions from the Arch community, especially the Arch developers, Trusted Users, and long time users. I am writing a review about Arch Linux which I hope to publish within the next month or so. Unlike most distro reviews, which are actually distro installation reviews, I have devoted a lot of space to The Arch Way, unique technical qualities of Arch, day to day use and maintenance of Arch, and the Arch community. In my view, the community of a distro is much more important than its installation process.
If I may, I would like to pose some questions about the Arch community. FWIW, I have been quietly participating in the Arch community myself for some months now, contributing material to the wiki. Anyway, please take a look at the queries below, and comment on any as you see fit.
Thank you,
Luke Seubert
1. Despite its modest size, Arch has a very enthusiastic community, as evidenced by its internationalization projects, derivative distros, 3rd party repositories, Arch schwag, active forums and wiki, etc. Is this statement true or false, and if Arch does have an especially enthusiastic community, why?
2. Arch is deeply conservative, refusing to deviate from core principles. Still, within these bounds, Arch permits a wide array of innovation. Are these statements true or false, and why? If true, what are the pros and cons of such conservatism? If false, in what way has Arch deviated from its core principles or resisted innovation?
3. The Arch community is fairly harmonious, with little bickering, flamewars, forks or threats to fork, etc. Is this statement true or false, and why? (I have my own theory on the why of this one, and the answer in brief is... dogfood.)
4. How good or bad a job is Arch doing in cultivating new Trusted Users and Arch developers? Does it have a formal mentoring process? It seems the most direct path to TU status is to put together packages in AUR, and eventually have them voted into Community based upon quality and popularity. However, at some point, virtually all of the popular packages will already be in Community or Extra. How does an AUR uploader become a Trusted User then?
5. Hypothetical Scenario:
The Chakra Project successfully completes in alpha, beta, and release candidate Live CD testing, and releases its Live CD - version 1.0 - with the GUI easy Tribe installer, to wide acclaim - DistroWatch even raves about it. Suddenly, there are lots of new Arch users, who never went through the traditional Arch install process, who never "paid their Arch dues", and who are not nearly as clueful because they never RTFW. They are flooding IRC and webforums with really, uh, "basic" questions, and suggesting/demanding new features. How does the Arch community handle this abrupt change in its culture? Has it dealt with such culture shocks before?
6. If only you too could lift cars over your head, would you be more cool, less cool, or as cool as Phrakture, and why? What if you could only lift cars over your head after eating a can of spinach and slamming a six pack of Red Bull? Then how cool/not cool would you be by comparison?
Last edited by lseubert (2009-08-08 13:45:07)

Allan wrote:
Here are my opinions on these questions and do not necessarily reflect other Arch devs...
1. True. I believe part of the enthusiastic community comes from the fact that Arch requires you to set up your system for yourself. So people become very proud of their achievement of getting their system setup exactly as they like it.
This is an excellent point. There is a nice sense of pride that comes from tweaking your Arch install to just the way you like it. And it is an involved process requiring some modicum of skill.
Also, people have always been encouraged to contribute fixes or start projects to fulfill areas they see lacking. Seeing your work become used by many others is always a good feeling.
Yeah, I have noted this in my rough draft. Arch has amazingly low barriers to entry. Sign up for an AUR account, which is quick and automatic, and get to work. Your status and authority is derived from a roughly consensual meritocracy, as opposed to a hierarchical, bureaucratic process full of gatekeepers, aka potential gateclosers, like most distros.
This simplicity extends to our package manager, which I believe is a major factor in making the AUR as popular as it is. (Note that while pacman is developed primarily by Arch users, it aims not to be tied to any distro).
Allan, could you clarify this comment? How does pacman make AUR popular? While I use pacman to access binaries from core, extra, and community; I use yaourt to handle PKGBUILDs from AUR. I don't quite follow you on this one.
But as always, the principles guiding Arch do get bent when it is sensible to do so. It was always said we don't split packages like many other distros, but we do some splitting these days (e.g. gcc-libs, KDE). We now include info pages and other docs.
Both of which are good moves. A system should have documentation built in, for those occasions when internet access is down. And I might actually take a look at KDE 4 once again, now that I wouldn't have to download a pile of unwanted packages.
3. There are flame-wars every so often... The last one that was probably quite obvious to many was changing rules governing the community repo (requiring votes or 1% usage as defined by pkgstats) and the move to using the official db-scripts (which may be seen as making the TUs less independent).
That is a flamewar that I missed. How does Arch resolve difficult issues? There is no Constitution that I could find, nor any formal governing structure. Is it as simple as lengthy debate, and then Dred Overlord Phrakture decrees?
I have never heard of a treat to fork the distro or components of it. I guess that is because of the attitude of show us a working implementation of a good idea and it will possibly become official.
Well, there aren't forks, but there are a lot of derivative distros, some of them with very different goals. And there are a lot of 3rd party repositories out there, outside of AUR. I wouldn't call that forking, but it is, I guess, extending. I think such experimentation is a good thing - really good ideas might be developed outside of even AUR, and eventually brought back into the Arch ecosystem. I believe some of Xyne's packages got started that way, yes?
Here is an interesting factoid I came up with in my research:
Packages Per Maintainer Ratio - how many packages on average does a maintainer support?
For Debian, the P/M Ratio is 28
When you add up all the Arch Devs and TUs, and divide out the packages in core, extra, and community, the Arch P/M Ratio is 67.
Arch devs seem quite impressive, until you recall that they mostly maintain one version of each package and for only two architectures, whereas Debian devs support 11 architectures for 5 versions - experimental, unstable, testing, current stable, and old stable. (Ugh - is that brutal or what?)
Seen in that light, one has to admire the very hardworking Debian devs, and wonder a bit about those Arch dev slackers. Yet another T-shirt idea! Change the first idea so it now reads, "I'm a slacker Arch developer, and I eat my own dogfood!"

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Regards,
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In version 3, after a period of time, SQL Developer starts putting CPU to 50% for a few seconds (I'm on a dual core machine) and the Worksheet hangs, this is really frustrating to work with, is there a fix?
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But if I open the GUI and hit the Find button, about 50% of the time the tool goes into some sort of verrrrry long loop, burning as much as 30 minutes of CPU time and expanding the memory footprint to ~500 MB of "Mem Usage" and 1500 MB of "VM Size" (per Windows Task Manager).
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Message Edited by davodavo on 04-25-2009 07:55 AM
Message Edited by davodavo on 04-25-2009 07:57 AM

Installed all the packages you indicated, except for the Intel WiFi driver set (because I'm running on the IBM b/g card). Everything works pretty much as it did before, a little better.
But things are still messy in the CPU utilization and memory consumption of AccessConnections.exe:
- when you push the "find" button for WiFi networks, the CPU utilization goes to 100% and memory footprint jumps by 20 MB or so...it jumps up every time you push the find button and it doesn't decline again even though the base-station iconography disappears
- just leaving the AC GUI open while there's a normal WiFi connection in place, the GUI uses about 25% of CPU indefinitely
- the AC GUI also grows its memory footprint by about 250 kB/s indefinitely
- after 3 CPU minutes of normal operation (around 10 minutes), the AC GUI is using 275 MB of memory and 250 MB of VM space
- after 10 CPU minutes of heavy use (switching networks several times), over 1 GB each for RAM and VM
Looks like a memory leak to me...
Problem occurs when:
- GUI is up on screen showing the map
- there's a connection and the green-expanding-circles animation is running around the base station you're connected to
- the Find button is pushed and several available networks are displayed
Problem stops when:
- GUI is minimized or is showing the "Location Profile" or "Options" tab
- there's no active WiFi connection
- after 10 CPU minutes, you disconnect and re-connect to the same network. This is a memory footprint of over 250MB, but at least it stops expanding
- GUI is terminated
Message Edited by davodavo on 04-28-2009 12:52 PM
Message Edited by davodavo on 04-28-2009 04:25 PM

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Hi Gents!
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Dear Arch Linux community,
I would like to tell you a little background information about myself before I start to talk about my actual subject. I know that this part of my message does not belong here, but it is my own ritual to do it like this in my first message in every community. I hope I can make friends with people here and try not to harm this community in any way. Thank you for reading this.
I am a 16-year-old male student from Finland and addicted to GNU/Linux and freeware / open source software. My previous experience with GNU/Linux is fairly large; from thin client Debian GNU/Linux administrator to kernel hacker and software developer. My delight is music, particularly writing and composing my own music tracks which vary from classic chiptunes to acid trance and dance beats. Arch Linux seems to be a great GNU/Linux operating system for me, because I am looking for a GNU/Linux distribution that does not focus on desktop, but rather on simplicity and lightweight solutions. I also do not fear "bleeding edge" software which is a positive point for Arch Linux compared to Debian GNU/Linux. As you can probably notice I have been using Debian GNU/Linux before I considered Arch Linux. However now I am here hoping for a totally new experience from Arch Linux.
Enough with my foreword, I would like to now go back to the actual subject. Usually I use DVD media for GNU/Linux images to have both the installer for the GNU/Linux distribution and the main package repository to make installations faster and to have the possibility for an offline installation. As I see, Arch Linux provides only CD images which are approximately 160MB in size, making me to think about incorporating Arch Linux's "Core" and "Extra" package repositories to fill up the remaining 4GB on the DVD. If the "Core" package repository is already included in the Arch Linux CD image, please forgive my lack of information as this is the first time I have ever entered to the world of Arch Linux.
My question is as follows: Is it possible to incorporate Arch Linux and a package repository onto one DVD while retaining the ability to install Arch Linux from that DVD? If positive, how should I go on to do it?
Thank you in advance!
Last edited by Amplify.EXE (2007-11-09 20:53:44)

No niin, tervetuloa arch-mailmaan.
Ok, I better stop at one sentence before someone gets mad at me :roll:.
To answer your question, yes. It is quite possible to put something like that together, heck I think someone suggested we should distribute those some time, but we decided not to (don't quote me, I'm too lazy to read the archives right now) since in most cases pacman will get the job done will job done with less bandwidth waste, and distributing huge snapshots isn't really too conducive to the whole rolling-release thing.
You might want to check out archiso [1], the install scripts [2], and one of my sample archiso configurations [3] that effectively creates an install CD. Now, keep in mind that archiso isn't the *current* way installers are created, but I think it's much more straightforward to work with than what we're using right now. That said, we currently use archboot to create the CDs, so that may be worth taking a look at as well. There is also a really old installer remastering wiki article [4], though not terribly relevant, you could still use a similar technique to pull apart one of our recent install iso's and remaster it with whatever packages you want. Anyhow, if you'd like help with this, I'd be more than happy to give you a hand (I need some more test-cases for archiso...), or if you look at it and go "gee, this is dumb", don't be afraid to send patches. Just get in touch with me through email, jabber, irc, or whatever.
Good luck
[1] http://projects.archlinux.org/git/?p=ar … a=summary)
[2] http://projects.archlinux.org/git/?p=in … ;a=summary
[3] http://code.neotuli.net/gitweb/?p=archi … stall-conf
[4] http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Rem … nstall_ISO

New version crash when opened 4 or more tabs, high mem Usage!!

This happened after i update firefox newest update about 2 week ago, when i opened 4 tabs or more after several times firefox freeze then continue, after that crash and and message appear contact microsoft not monzilla, i think my sytem error so i reinstall my windows and download new firefox, but still crash... i checked mem Usage is very high, it's never happened at older version even i opened 7 or 8 tabs, so please fix it at next version.. for info i use old P4 with 256mb mem and windowsXp sp2 system ... no viruses on my PC because protect by Kapersky and AVG and fresh after reinstall !!
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Every time Firefox opened
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256 MB RAM is very low. Add some if you can; RAM is really not very expensive.
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http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Firefox+crashes+due+to+AVG+SafeSearch
http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Controlling+AVG+Firefox+add-ons
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The Below query has been used , but the textdata column doesnot include the name of the table ServiceLog.
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Ann154 wrote:
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