Noise reduction and sharpening in LR4

Am I the only one that feels that the LR4 NR is inferior to that of LR3? I swear the only slider that does anything is the luminance and it is not as precise or powerful as LR3. The detail and contrast slders don't seem to do anything?? And as for the sharpening, the radius and detail seem to not do much as compared to LR3. Is it just that it is slower than LR3? I just feel as if I can't dial in things as precise. I am using RC1 with 5D3 files. Should I go for RC2? I heard is was even slower. Thanks

As far as I know, nothing was changed in the sharpening and noise redution between LR 3 and LR4, so I think you are "seeing things" that aren't there...and yes, PV 2012 takes more processing than PV 2010 but the image detail (sharpening and noise reduction) should be the same...

Similar Messages

Any chance Photoshop itself will get Camera Raw's noise reduction and sharpening?

I would love to have the noise reduction and sharpening from ACR 6 in Photoshop itself for JPEG, TIFF, and PSD files. Yes, I know I can open those files in ACR, apply noise reduction and sharpening, and then have it then open the files to Photoshop. But it would be so nice if we could do that without having to go through Camera Raw.

Matt Howell wrote:
Yes, I am absolutely saying that the noise reduction and sharpening of ACR 6 is vastly superior to any filters in Photoshop CS5.
For those who only work only with RAW files this is a non-issue, but I sometimes prefer to use TIFF files generated by CANON DPP software or occasionally even JPEG's straight out of Canon DSLR's. Going through ACR just for noise reduction causes unnecessary color space conversions, as well as just a needlessly complex workflow.
Perhaps you should ask Canon to make DPP noise reduction better. I also do not think is a good idea to get too aggressive with noise reduction and sharpening when you first bring a image into Photoshop unless you only use the image single use for a particular output device. Your better off working with a somewhat soft image till you ready for output and then sharpen for the output devive being used. If you use strong sharpening and NR up front sharpeing again for your output device may produce unwanted sharpening and NR artifacts... There are several third party noise reduction and sharpening plug-ins that are better then Adobe Photoshop built in ones. Noise reduction has to be balanced too much will loose detail masking detail is important. ACR noise reduction provides masking adjustments and works well. Third party plug-ins offer offer advanced masking features also. Photoshop noise reduction filter has a basic preserve detail slider which I presumes does some kind of masking but this is not as good at ACR masking and third paty masking. You can of course add you own masking before using photoshop noise reduction filter. Sharpening also needs masking for sarpening will sharpen noise as well as detail.
IMO your better off with third party plug-ins that are designed to be the best. They keep getting better there is no clear winner for all images. I'm been satisfied with NeatImage and I have only had to pay for two upgrades. I had to pay for the addition the 32 bit plugin then and for the addition a 64 bit plugin. All other updates to NeatImage has been free of charge even the lates version 7 of the 64 bit plugin was no charge for me.

Exporting JPEG = loosing Noise reduction and sharpening, poor quality compare to RAW

Hi guys,
I bought LR 5.0 not even a month ago and I was so excited to use it.
Now that I am done working on my projects I exported them as JPEG into my hard drive. This is a disaster. My pictures are amazing in my lightroom as RAW now you should see what they look like in JPEG. I can't believe it. I obviously did something wrong but I can't figure what it is. My JPEG pictures looks extremely grainy. I did shoot at a High ISO for most of them. It is probably the real problem here but there's certainly a way to make it work in JPEG since it looks good in RAW. Please tell me what to do from there. How can I keep the same quality in JPEG than I already have in RAW? I choose JPEG - quality 80% or 100% (tried both) - sRGB. Should I resize the image too?

Are you applying export sharpening, which would exacerbate any remaining noise-grain? Are you judging the sharpening and noise-reduction at 100% 1:1 zoom? You have to, otherwise, the resampling-for-display algorithms in LR and your OS viewer might be doing something completely different.

Sharpening, noise reduction and blurring (general)

Sharpening, noise reduction and blurring ...
I need to read an extensive and up-to-date reference about these topics in digital imaging.
I would like to learn your book advises ...
Thanks a lot.
PS. It can be technical.

Thanks Jeffrey,
I want to learn all the sharpening algorithms in the digital imaging world today (and also for NR and blurring, as they are closely related subjects with each other).
Indeed, I'm trying to understand the PS and LR tools.
And, in order to understand their tools completely,
I think I should have a solid background on these subjects ...
For example ...
I could not understand yet how the detail slider works in LR.
It is said that it uses deconvolution algorithm ... but if you ask me it looks like a smart sharpen applied to the high frequency.
Is smart sharpen deconvolution?
Looks like ... but I don't know.
Like this ...
Of course, I can use them without knowing them so much,
Just "need for knowledge"
I read Jeff's book, but I think I need more.

Noise Reduction and RAW

I use a Rebel T4i, but the model really should not matter I think.
When Hi ISO or Long Exposure Noise Reduction is set does it apply to RAW?
I am under the impression that RAW get no additional processing. But I'm learning to look at my images in new ways. Something doesn't add up. It seems like the noise reduction is applied to RAW images. My mind is going to explode pretty soon if somebody doesn't set me straight.
Solved!
Go to Solution.

Long exposure noise reduction is applied directly to RAW. It's "destructive", burnt into the file. It takes the noise readings from the second "dark" shot and subtracts them from the first image, and creates a single RAW out of it.
High ISO noise on the other hand is just listed as a setting. Programs like Lightroom will ignore it, but some programs, like Canon's DPP will apply it on import. I don't use it so I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine that you can adjust it since it's just a setting.

MEMS accelerometer: noise reduction and improve resolution

Hi to all, I hope to post in the right place.
I have a 14 bit MEMS digital accelerometer, I need 100 sps output rate.
I would like to start tests with LabView before move to microcontroller but first I have these doubts:
First step: sensor could work up to 1200 sps, so I'm thinking about reading data at 1200 sps to increase resolution.
Is there any suitable algorithm specific for this case or just oversample then avarage results to 100 sps?
Second step: I've heard it's possible to use multiple (2-3) sensor at same time to reduce noise (Kellman filter?), right?
If so I haven't found examples on the net, just using sensors grid (isn't my case).
Is there available any example?
Thanks. Michele.

At the end, my final application is measure signal with maximum pk-pk value of 1-1,5g, maximum bandwidth 50Hz.
Target accelerometers has got about 300ng PSD value, at 24 bit resolution, I would likr to know what can I do with commercial accelerometers.
Hi, I've take as example application note AN4075 from Freescale:
- sensor MMA8451 14 bit digital output, +/- 2g fullscale, 0,25 mg/count
PSD = 85ug/SQRT(Hz)
Signal bandwidth = 200 Hz
Sample frequency = 400 Hz
RMS noise = 1,2mg (on 200 Hz bandwidth)
pk-pk noise = RMS noise * 4 = 4,8 mg
I have 2,8 mg of noise where I have a resolution of 0,25 mg/count, so I got at the end efective resolution of 11,05mg.
Other sensors could be BMA180 from Bosch or LIS3LV02DQ from ST (both digital output).
1) can I improve performances of these sensors?
I've read I can increase resolution with oversampling, but I think I would be limited to the maximum sample rate of sensor (1200 SPS for BMA180 or 1600 for LIS3LV02DQ)
If oversampling would be correct way, I think I could use external ADC (due to high SPS I can reach in this way, digital sensors has got maximum SPS up to 1600) to increase SPS value.
But if I increase resolution through oversampling (let's suppose I can reach 24 bit resolution), which would be efective number of bits?
2)I can place sensors much closer, so I think I can get same acceleration reading from 2 (or more) sensors. In this case I would reduce noise throu Kelman filter.
But examples I've fond on the net are based on "estimated" value I suppose, and on "real" value I read from sensor.
So I have no idea how implement Kelman filter.

How do PS CS3 Noise Reduction Filters compare with dedicated third-party plug-ins?

Am I missing something by not installing a dedicated Noise Reduction application into my PS CS3? Can Neat Image, Noise Ninja, Noiseware Pro, etc. do something that the PS CS3 Noise Filters can't do? Do these third-party aplications do it better?
Since I like flashless photography, and I generally carry with me small-sensor compacts when I travel, I'm frequently confronted with the problem of digital noise. I've always wondered how the third-party noise reduction applications perform in comparison with the Photoshop Noise Filters. I hope someone in this Forum has been able to acquire direct experience on this topic and will be kind enough to share this experience with us.
Kindest Regards,
Conrad

Conrad,
ACR 4.3 has better NR (noise reduction) than previous versions and can handle NR in most normal situations. However, available light photography with a small pixel sensor may require more NR and the specialized plugins such as Noise Ninja, NeatImage, and NoiseWare Pro can do a better job. I have all three and they do an excellent job, but I currently use NoiseWare most of the time.
Here is a demonstration of NoiseWare vs ACR NR, using 100% crops of an image taken with the Nikon D200, 1/320 sec at f/2.8. The image is reasonably sharp at normal viewing conditions, but has quite a lot of luminance noise. It was rendered with ACR and the settings were exposure +0.85, brightness +60. One thing you learn early in this type of shooting is to expose to the right to reduce noise, but this may conflict with stopping action and reducing camera shake. More exposure would have helped this image, and one should try to avoid exposures requiring this amount of positive exposure adjustment.
The results are shown below, followed by some discussion. Other comments are welcome. Color noise is not prominent in this image and I left color NR at its default.
ACR, No sharpening, no NR
ACR, Luminance NR 53, no sharpening
ACR, No NR, No sharpening, NoiseWare default, no sharpening
Noise reduction and sharpening are antagonistic processes. It is important that NR is applied before sharpening--you don't want to sharpen noise. Following NR there is an inevitable loss of detail, and some sharpening is necessary to restore the detail, but this also brings back the noise. One can use masks and blend if sliders in Photoshop in both NR and sharpening to mitigate some of these effects, and Bruce Fraser discusses the details in his excellent book on sharpening.
If you use an add on such as NoiseWare, you should turn off luminance sharpening in ACR. In doing so, you lose all those nifty sharpening features that have recently been added to ACR. I leave color NR at the default. It has a minimal effect on detail.
In adjusting the NR in ACR at 100% viewing, I estimated that a luminance setting of +53 was optimal. Beyond that, blotchy artifacts appear in the image.
For NoiseWarePro, I used the default settings with no sharpening. The NR effect is dramatic, but detail is lost and some sharpening is needed. This could be applied in NoiseWare or in Photoshop, perhaps with a plugin such as PhotoKit Sharpener. Personally, I have found that PK does not work well with this type of image because it bring back noise and produces artifacts.
In all of these examples, sharpening is needed following the NR. One could try to use surface masks to keep sharpening in Photoshop with the unsharp mask away from the edges. However, I find it is difficult to get a good surface mask, and I don't take the trouble.
For now, I use the sharpening built into NoiseWare. I don't know how it works internally, but it does have a slider for detail protection, and you can play with this to get the best result. It would be best to have the robust NR of the add ons built into ACR much like NoiseNinja is built into Bibble Pro. However, this is an ACR forum and I would expect that ACR is the preferred raw converter of those who frequent this forum.
After expending this much effort on the post, I hope to get some helpful feedback.

Lightroom Noise reduction versus DPP

I have been playing with DPP for al little while because the EOS 50d wasn't supported until a few days ago. DPP has some kind of intelligent support of NR depending on the ISO of the photo. If I analyzed it whell it is supporting the NR level of the camera itself.
Is it possible to do this kind of NR in Lightroom also?
I know I can make defaults for an ISO level, but it would be very nice if Lightroom is able to get this kind of information from te RAW file. The same accounts for the sharpening, but this might be tricky.
Regards,
Olaf.

>I read on the internet that Canon and Nikon don't want to share that kind of information. Stupid! They don't sell software, so it shouldn't matter to open the information of their RAW files.
Well Nikon sells their Capture NX software. They don't give it away with their cameras (except for some short running promotions) like Canon does.I do believe Canon charges for updates. You would think that it would be in the camera maker's best interest to make their files as readible by anybody as possible as it makes their cameras more attractive to buyers, but they have a very strange worldview in which the RAW files are their files instead of the photographer's and that their software is by definition better in processing their files than any third party because they know all the secrets. They actually say stuff like that! Quite astonishing. The only thing we can do is to tell them what we think of that bull.
>Lightroom doesn't apply any luminance nr by default. This also accounts for the higher ISO levels?
Even at zero there is some luminance NR I think. There is also noise reduction and sharpening inherent to the tuning of the demosaicing algorithm. I think the tuning between more sharpness and less noise is dependent on ISO.
>Are there any more options which are depending on the ISO of the photo by default?
Where do you get this kind of information? I can't find any about this in the online help of Lightroom.
I think some intricacies in the color rendering also respond to this but that's probably the extent of it. Thomas Knoll (check the credits in Lightroom to see who that is) and others on the Lightroom/ACR teams have posted on this forum about these things as well as some people in the know. So I 'm giving you second-hand info here but you should be able to look back on this by searching for posts by Thomas and others. Doing this is very instructive anyway regardless of the subject.

Noise reduction not showing in develop module

I have noticed today that when I am reducing the noise in the develop module, the changes are not being represented on the image I am working with, except in the top left hand corner... too small for me to see clearly. But when I switch to Library module, the changes have indeed taken place. Has anyone experienced this? I need a fix because it's a bad guessing game adjusting my slider without seeing results until I switch modules. Haven't had this problem before. A lot of my work is turning out tooooo smooth!! I appreciate any help I can get with this.

Without question noise reduction and sharpening should only be adjusted at 100% view magnification. Hopefully the OP understands why now.
I tried viewing both 21Mp and 6Mp RAW images at 'Fit' magnification in the Develop module on my office system:
Vista Home Premium SP2 64bit
Lightroom 3.4.1
1280 x 1024 Monitor (Calibrated with i1 Display 2)
The 'Fit' size image on my 1,280 x1024 display with side panels up is 650 x 430. I increased the side panels for a 400 x 266 picture size, and tried it with side panels off for a 1,000 x 666 picture size – Noise reduction and sharpening is clearly applied in the Develop module for all of three view magnification sizes!
I would be interested for others to try this and report what they are seeing. I used a High ISO 128,000 RAW image so I could easily see the affect of noise reduction and sharpening controls at the 'Fit' magnification. If you don't see any change, try moving the Sharpening Amount and Luminance controls to 100 and then down to 0.
Note to the OP – Regardless of what you are seeing at 'Fit' view size, only adjust Sharpening and Noise Reduction at 100%. I'm just suggesting that you may in fact have a problem with your system. What Camera and file type are you using, LR version, operating system, and monitor(s)?

Noise Reduction Tool Disappeared

Hi,
I'm using the LR 5 Beta and I'm new to Lightroom in general. I was editing some photos last night and was able to use the "Noise Reduction" and "Sharpen" tools just fine, but this morning when I went to edit the same photos (and subsequent photos) those tools seem to have disappeared completely. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Can anyone help me figure out what's going on?
Additional info:
I'm shooting in RAW and I've tried opening the original file as well as several other out of camera files and nothing is showing up.

Right-click any panel header on the right panel in develop (Basic, say) and check the Detail panel to get that panel back.

V1.1 Noise Reduction

How well does v1.1 improvement in Noise Reduction work?
My Canon Digital Rebel XT takes rather noisey pictures at ISO 1600. A tool called Noise Ninja does an impressive job of removing that noise. Will Aperture's noise reduction replace the need to filter noise with other external software?

I've got a Rebel XT also. That was just about the first thing I checked with 1.1. I was impressed that the combination of noise reduction and sharpening was excellent for my ISO 1600 pictures. First of all Aperture works with the RAW files whereas Noise Ninja works with the PSD, TIFF or JPGs created by the RAW converter. It's my opinion that the overall advantage in quality goes to Aperture for this task as the result is low noise and nicely sharpening images. Noise Ninja will blow away Aperture's work with JPG's.

Are sharpening and noise reduction working in 1.0?

I went to see if they'd made any improvements in the noise reduction area, and can't get any of the noise reduction or sharpening settings to effect the image at all. The settings definitely aren't making any changes to the visible image in normal or 100% view.
I tested this on an ISO1600 image to make sure there was visible noise.
Is anyone else seeing this lack of effect?

The server may think it's serving that page to some user-agents, but it ain't working for any over here:
$ curl -o file.jpeg -v http://learningtosee.org/aux_photos/sharpening_test.jpg
* About to connect() to learningtosee.org port 80
* Trying 204.16.138.5... * connected
* Connected to learningtosee.org (204.16.138.5) port 80
> GET /aux_photos/sharpening_test.jpg HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: curl/7.12.2 (i386-pc-win32) libcurl/7.12.2 zlib/1.2.1
Host: learningtosee.org
Pragma: no-cache
Accept: */*
< HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
< Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:31:06 GMT
< Server: Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS)
< Vary: Accept-Encoding
< Content-Length: 311
< Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 311 100 311 0 0 2159 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
* Connection #0 to host learningtosee.org left intact
* Closing connection #0
$

Disabling Sharpening and Noise Reduction

Hello. I have Lightroom 1.2. I have over a 1,000 images to process. How can I disable sharpening and noise reduction for all of them without having to click that little detail box for each of the images. I use Noiseware for noise reduction and Focalblade for sharpening. If there is something in a folder within Lightroom I can delete to remove sharpening forever, please let me know. Of course, I want to perform the other corrections in Lightroom as necessary. Thank you.
Francis

Jao, Thank you. I have asked this question elsewhere before. I have recieved replies, maybe I did not follow the directions properly, but they never worked. The sharpening would be disableduntil I went to make another correction. Then back to sharpening Lightroom would go. Your way, sharpening is disabled for all the images and stays that way. Thanks again.
Francis

Upscaling and noise reduction in ACR

I've been thinking about upscaling images and the best time to do so (if I need to of course) in my workflow. As I understand it, it's always best to carry out any noise reduction prior to upsampling an image, as this helps avoid increasing the size of any noise that may be apparent in the image.
However, I'm thinking that in ACR, this in theory would not be neccessary as ACR would carry out any noise reduction and upsampling in a pre-defined processing order. So put simply, I could increase the image size and then carry out any NR as required after upscaling. This would allow me to tailor the NR to fit the increased image dimensions (and of course I could then carry out capture sharpening for the larger image as well).
Is my thinking correct here - does it not really matter in terms of image quality if I don't do any NR before changing the image dimensions in ACR?
M

I did a lot of experimentation with upsampling during conversion.
I found that - in my opinion - upsampling during Camera Raw operation yields superior results to doing it later. I also believe that dialing in some noise reduction during Camera Raw is needed, as even low ISO images get pretty grainy otherwise.
Every camera is different, but what I ended up saving for defaults is this, keeping in mind that I do my conversions to the largest possible image size, then downsample later for specific uses.
Only you know what your goals are and what you like in your images, so I encourage you to experiment as I did with different combinations of settings to try to find the right balance.
-Noel

Noise reduction, Clarity and Masking Vs Sharpness

Maybe I have been using too much noise reduction and clarity for bird photos. Some people on dpReview recommend no noise reduction and now I am inclined to believe them. Recently I tried using little to no noise reduction, little to no Clarity, lots of sharpening and about 40% masking.This gives the bird good feather detail and anything with less detail has little noise and better bokeh. In low detail areas it looks to me like masking reduces the noise caused by Sharpening but it has less affect on the noise increased by Clarity. Is this true? If it is, in bird photography is Clarity best used sparingly and selectively like on there heads?
Another reason for asking all this is I once read that even a little masking degrades sharpness but now I doubt that. Maybe LR has improved that through the years.
Thanks,
Doug

Indeed luminance noise reduction (and to some extent color noise reduction) has a tendency to wipe out fine feather detail.
I recommend:
* lowered noise reduction, and if you do use it, crank the nr.detail slider way up - this will help maintain fine feather detail and is superior to sharpening detail for maintaining feather detail otherwise lost due to noise reduction.
* lowered sharpening detail, to keep noise down, and reduce the "need" for noise reduction.
* and sharpen masking to taste..
Also note: local sharpening at exactly -50 masks all global sharpening, and so can be used in conjunction with noise reduction to smooth the bokeh areas.
And of course you can add sharpening and/or clarity locally too.
I realize I didn't answer your exact question perfectly as asked, but I'm not sure what else to say, so..
Have fun,
Rob

Noise reduction and sharpening in LR4

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