Noise reduction before or after enlarging ?

Hi. I'd be interested in your opinion:
If the circumstances force me to work on images with noise which have to be enlarged, and if I use noise reduction based on noise-pattern-recognition, is it better to carry out the noise reduction before or after the enlargement (and in case the answer is after, which resampling method would resample the image (and thus the noise) best for subsequent noise reduction?)
And what's the logical rationale behind the answer ?
Thanks a lot!
PS: I think the answer will be the same for any type of noise, but if there are significant differences between noise types, I'd be interested in that, too.

Thanks for all your comments.
I also thought that NR should be applied as soon as possible, leaving the noise patterns intact. On the other hand I thought that enlarging also enlarges residual noise, so maybe the bottom line is to do a regular NR initially and then, after enlarging, a second weak/careful one on parts of the image if need be.
@Freeagent: very good tip the inverse luminosity mask! As for ACR: From my personal experience, ACR noise reduction is very effective on RAW material, but on all other sources it far lags behind noise-pattern-recognition methods.

Similar Messages

Returning to ACR for noise reduction, while in Photoshop

Is there a shortcut back to noise reduction in ACR ~ while working on an image in Photoshop?
Of course if it's opened as a smart object you can return to raw but there are heaps of things you can't do to a smart object...
The onlty way I can think of is to save and close the file and then open it (again) in RAW. And that's a bit of a round about way to do it.

NanceeArt wrote:
The onlty way I can think of is to save and close the file and then open it (again) in RAW. And that's a bit of a round about way to do it.
That's the only way and also note that going noise reduction on a rendered image vs a raw image is suboptimal...you really want to be doing the noise reduction BEFORE you render the file. A raw Smart Object would be useful in this situation.

Export of noise reduction does not look like Develop preview

Hi,
I have a photo that has noise reduction applied, however, after export, it looks as if NO noise reduction has been applied. Other photos look like they have the noise reduction applied. Not sure why this one would refuse to export the noise reduction filter. In the Develop preview, it looks great, no noise. After export, noise.
Different but possibly related, On all photos, I noticed that the noise reduction preview in Develop doesn't update unless I zoom-in/zoom-out, then it updates it. But if I make any adjustments to the slider it doesn't update until I zoom-in/zoom-out again. This seems like a bug.
Lightroom version: 3.0 [677000]
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
Version: 5.1 [2600]
Application architecture: x86
System architecture: x86
Physical processor count: 2
Processor speed: 1.8 GHz
Built-in memory: 2047.2 MB
Real memory available to Lightroom: 716.8 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 252.1 MB (35.1%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 400.0 MB
Memory cache size: 51.7 MB
System DPI setting: 96 DPI
Displays: 1) 1680x1050, 2) 1440x900
Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry if this has already been reported.
tek

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Lee Jay wrote:
danpancamo wrote:
Here's the CR2 file
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1005742637/a865add0e167c8fdfac02211e4345a60
TO recreate the problem
1. import the CR2 into LR3.3
2. In the Develop Module change Noise Reduction Luminance and Detail to 100
3. In the Library Module export to Hard Drive with 100% Quality no Sharpening
4. View the JPG and compare to the LR3 views...
The two are virtually the same, as far as I can tell.
It looks like the 1:1 issue in Develop view biting me again... If you view the image in develop view in less thatn 1:1 it looks great.
Man the 1:1 view issue is annoying! I want the image to look the way it does in Fit/Fill mode.... Is there a way to do this?
If I export th CR2 to JPG then Import the JPG then appy NR to the JPG and export, I get the results im after.... there's got to be a better way?

Vocal Irregularity after applying Noise Reduction

In this new project I followed Bob Howes instruction:
‘Set the FFT size (on the advanced menu) to 2048 and grab a noise print from a gap of "silence". Select the entire filed and do reduction by 7 or 8 dB and 15%ish reduction. Set the FFT size to the next one up, get a new noise print and do another pass with the same low settings. Keep going, upping the FFT size each time.’
This new project I started out first with a Hard Limit. Then I followed Bob's advise with managing by steps the FFT size.
Sample One is a piece of the original.
Sample Two is the results of the effects.
It sounds as though the speed of the vocals did changed - though one can listen to the vocal their conversation sounds - unnatural.
After removing noise is there another approach to redeem the vocals of those speaking?
Thanks!
Original Sample One
HardLimit - Noise Reduction Sample Two
Your video has been published at http://youtu.be/K63D5QNGb_I
Your video will be live at: http://youtu.be/uOtLUYiZyQc

Yes, you have very much overdone the Noise Reduction!
First, I'm not sure why you would need to first apply a "Hard Limit".
Second, are you sure you followed Bob's advice exactly, i.e taking a new noise sample and changing the FFT size on each pass? Are you sure you set everything exactly correct on that first pass?

LR3: lack of processing feedback after applying noise reduction

Now with the bigger RAW files (7D's 18Mpix) Lightroom is becoming really slow.
On several ocassions after applying some noise reduction, and waiting for some 20-30sec for a visible result, I moved the slider back and forth in the wrong assumption that nothing happens, but in fact I was disrupting an ongoing operation. The problem in LR3 is that it does not show any of its tooltips with an information that a noise reducing operation is in progress.
I hope that the team would improve this in the next version 3.01, we need at least the tooltip to appear.
Thomas

i absolutely agree!
Now, in LR3 you can move the sliders very smoothly - but nothing happens for seconds.
Same happens with the local adjustment brush. You click on the picture and start to paint but nothing happens. After a few seconds the pin appears and MAYBE the first click for the mask is set. After that you can paint further.
Another thing is, that it takes longer for a RAW to be loaded. Sometimes i see the "Loading"-Hint for 10 Seconds or more. If i need to scan fast thru hundreds of pictures to clone away some things or make a face a little bit brighter, these loading times feels like ages.
Both is very annoying and was better in LR2.
BTW: I think LR3 has a serious memory leak because i can see LR3 slowing down over time. After developing about 20 pictures everything slows down, sometimes to a point where i think LR3 has frozen (no CPU usages, just standing still for 30 seconds or more). When i quit and restart LR3, everything is quick until the next slow down.
(older iMac 24", white model, 3GB RAM that can be used) - you may see this at a later point if you have 8GB or more RAM of course.

ACR 6.2 noise reduction settings shown only after zoom in or pushing sliders

Hi!
I Believe its an operator error, but still, i need your help, either to correct the situation ou learn how to work around it!
Begining:
to properly adjust noisre reductions settings we have to zoom in to about 100%, however, when zoom to fit in screen... the changes dont apear... unless i slghtly slide one adjusting button, the image will show the the changes until i release the slider.
i have the "preview check" marked.
if i export the images to jpg or tiff they present the changes, but if i click "done" to keep only the raw files + xmp and open the files in bridge on full screen, it doesn´t show the noise reduction changes, and once again, if i zoom in, it magicly changes while still zooming in....
Can someone help? i would like to keep only the raw files, having them exported only when needed...
Thank you in advance for your patience and time!
Mikroben.

hi MadManChan2000!
Thank you for your reply!
here you have a screen shot from my "basic" ACR settings, and as you can see, the darker part of the facem presents some noise color and grain.
on this second screen shot, you can see how the image should be showing.... however, for the noise redution changes to appear when the image is in "fit in view" mode i have to push a slider from de "Basic" menu (in this case i was pushing the exposure).
You can pretty much see the diference!! this is how i wanted images to show.
in this next screen shot you can see my NR Settings.
Thank you for your patience!!
Have a great weekend!!
tzSantos

How do I permanantly apply audio noise reduction in FCP X

I have a clip shot on a blue screen set that had some noise in the background (constant hum from air conditioner). The Background Noise Reduction in FCP X, applied at 100%, does a truly amazing job. But there is one huge problem. It appears that FCP X "learns" as the clip is played, perhaps taking it's own noise print of the background noise, and applying it on the fly. Because for every clip I apply 100% background noise reduction to, that clip begins playing and you hear the full audio with noise. After a few seconds the backgroun noise begins to fade away. After playing for about 5 seconds, the background noise is completely gone. And it's freaking amazing. Better than what I've ever been able to accomplish with Soundsoap or other programs. But the fact that it must do this on the fly each time means it is unusable to me. I can't have each clip in my timeline start with noise, then have the noise drop out after a few seconds. Is this a bug? Am I doing this wrong? There are really no settings. You either have Background Noise Reduction on or off and set your percentages.
I am fixing audio on a 1 hour program. Really need this to work. Anyone else having the same problem, or found a solution? Or know what I might be doing wrong?
Paul

Paul Kakert wrote:
The Background Noise Reduction in FCP X, applied at 100%, does a truly amazing job.
Does this mean you actually like the audio to sound as though it was recorded under water? I guess it depends on the amount of noise that requires removing, but I've never been able to tolerate more than about 40% before the audio gets horribly distorted.
I really don't share your experience of FCP X removing background noise 'on the fly' (sorry).
Andy

How do PS CS3 Noise Reduction Filters compare with dedicated third-party plug-ins?

Am I missing something by not installing a dedicated Noise Reduction application into my PS CS3? Can Neat Image, Noise Ninja, Noiseware Pro, etc. do something that the PS CS3 Noise Filters can't do? Do these third-party aplications do it better?
Since I like flashless photography, and I generally carry with me small-sensor compacts when I travel, I'm frequently confronted with the problem of digital noise. I've always wondered how the third-party noise reduction applications perform in comparison with the Photoshop Noise Filters. I hope someone in this Forum has been able to acquire direct experience on this topic and will be kind enough to share this experience with us.
Kindest Regards,
Conrad

Conrad,
ACR 4.3 has better NR (noise reduction) than previous versions and can handle NR in most normal situations. However, available light photography with a small pixel sensor may require more NR and the specialized plugins such as Noise Ninja, NeatImage, and NoiseWare Pro can do a better job. I have all three and they do an excellent job, but I currently use NoiseWare most of the time.
Here is a demonstration of NoiseWare vs ACR NR, using 100% crops of an image taken with the Nikon D200, 1/320 sec at f/2.8. The image is reasonably sharp at normal viewing conditions, but has quite a lot of luminance noise. It was rendered with ACR and the settings were exposure +0.85, brightness +60. One thing you learn early in this type of shooting is to expose to the right to reduce noise, but this may conflict with stopping action and reducing camera shake. More exposure would have helped this image, and one should try to avoid exposures requiring this amount of positive exposure adjustment.
The results are shown below, followed by some discussion. Other comments are welcome. Color noise is not prominent in this image and I left color NR at its default.
ACR, No sharpening, no NR
ACR, Luminance NR 53, no sharpening
ACR, No NR, No sharpening, NoiseWare default, no sharpening
Noise reduction and sharpening are antagonistic processes. It is important that NR is applied before sharpening--you don't want to sharpen noise. Following NR there is an inevitable loss of detail, and some sharpening is necessary to restore the detail, but this also brings back the noise. One can use masks and blend if sliders in Photoshop in both NR and sharpening to mitigate some of these effects, and Bruce Fraser discusses the details in his excellent book on sharpening.
If you use an add on such as NoiseWare, you should turn off luminance sharpening in ACR. In doing so, you lose all those nifty sharpening features that have recently been added to ACR. I leave color NR at the default. It has a minimal effect on detail.
In adjusting the NR in ACR at 100% viewing, I estimated that a luminance setting of +53 was optimal. Beyond that, blotchy artifacts appear in the image.
For NoiseWarePro, I used the default settings with no sharpening. The NR effect is dramatic, but detail is lost and some sharpening is needed. This could be applied in NoiseWare or in Photoshop, perhaps with a plugin such as PhotoKit Sharpener. Personally, I have found that PK does not work well with this type of image because it bring back noise and produces artifacts.
In all of these examples, sharpening is needed following the NR. One could try to use surface masks to keep sharpening in Photoshop with the unsharp mask away from the edges. However, I find it is difficult to get a good surface mask, and I don't take the trouble.
For now, I use the sharpening built into NoiseWare. I don't know how it works internally, but it does have a slider for detail protection, and you can play with this to get the best result. It would be best to have the robust NR of the add ons built into ACR much like NoiseNinja is built into Bibble Pro. However, this is an ACR forum and I would expect that ACR is the preferred raw converter of those who frequent this forum.
After expending this much effort on the post, I hope to get some helpful feedback.

Cant get noise reduction to work

when I apply the noise reduction feature to a grainly picture nothing happens. am I missing a step?

It's subtle. Maybe zoom in and look at it. The M key will let you toggle to the Master file so you can look at the before and after quickly.

Upscaling and noise reduction in ACR

I've been thinking about upscaling images and the best time to do so (if I need to of course) in my workflow. As I understand it, it's always best to carry out any noise reduction prior to upsampling an image, as this helps avoid increasing the size of any noise that may be apparent in the image.
However, I'm thinking that in ACR, this in theory would not be neccessary as ACR would carry out any noise reduction and upsampling in a pre-defined processing order. So put simply, I could increase the image size and then carry out any NR as required after upscaling. This would allow me to tailor the NR to fit the increased image dimensions (and of course I could then carry out capture sharpening for the larger image as well).
Is my thinking correct here - does it not really matter in terms of image quality if I don't do any NR before changing the image dimensions in ACR?
M

I did a lot of experimentation with upsampling during conversion.
I found that - in my opinion - upsampling during Camera Raw operation yields superior results to doing it later. I also believe that dialing in some noise reduction during Camera Raw is needed, as even low ISO images get pretty grainy otherwise.
Every camera is different, but what I ended up saving for defaults is this, keeping in mind that I do my conversions to the largest possible image size, then downsample later for specific uses.
Only you know what your goals are and what you like in your images, so I encourage you to experiment as I did with different combinations of settings to try to find the right balance.
-Noel

Camera noise reduction

Hi I've just got a new iPhone 6, and i love it. However, I've noticed that what i see in the live view before i snap a photo, and after i snap, is totally different.
It seems apple's new noise reduction is a little too strong for my liking.
reuslting in a huge loss in depth and color and details.
On my iPhone 5, i used to be able to take really close up photos of my shrimps, and they looked fantastic. extremely detailed for a phone camera.
I expected this to be better on the iPhone 6 because of the new lens system and overall camera and phone processing power.
unfortunately, this is not the case.
The videos are better because the phone doesn't seem to apply any Noise Reduction filters after it is recorded.
can apple have a function to switch off noise reduction entirely? I would love to be able to choose.
also, please allow manual control of the camera settings! like VSCOcam and such. thank you!

Hi I've just got a new iPhone 6, and i love it. However, I've noticed that what i see in the live view before i snap a photo, and after i snap, is totally different.
It seems apple's new noise reduction is a little too strong for my liking.
reuslting in a huge loss in depth and color and details.
On my iPhone 5, i used to be able to take really close up photos of my shrimps, and they looked fantastic. extremely detailed for a phone camera.
I expected this to be better on the iPhone 6 because of the new lens system and overall camera and phone processing power.
unfortunately, this is not the case.
The videos are better because the phone doesn't seem to apply any Noise Reduction filters after it is recorded.
can apple have a function to switch off noise reduction entirely? I would love to be able to choose.
also, please allow manual control of the camera settings! like VSCOcam and such. thank you!

Need help with the noise reduction settings

Hi,
After som experimenting I need some help with the settings for noise reduction.
I just edited and converted a few pictures from RAW (D200) til 8-bit TIFF. Opend the file up in photoshop and was shocked to see the amount of noise in the pictures. I then exported the RAW-files and did the same conversion in Capture One 3.7.3 - The result is a lot better regarding noise. In capture One I'm using the noise reduction step before "High".
Can you share your experience with the optimal settings for best noise removal ?
Thanks in advance,
fbrose

i use it once in a while, but i play around with the sliders in full screen mode and at 100% and then see what the sliders do. I don't have a definite procedure that I can suggest though.

Why is my noise reduction lost in photoshop elements editor?

I took some star shots recently in RAW format. When I open them in elements, I first get a window that lets me make changes to the RAW file, including exposure, clarity, sharpness, noise reduction... etc. I adjust the noise reduction with the luminosity sliders and get a good looking picture (a lot of noise removed). However, when I click "Open Image" to get it into the editor, it loads the image into the work space with all of the RAW edits I just made, except the noise reduction (it reverts back to the original amount of noise). Why is this and how can I stop it from happening?

The top larger image is the "after" I save (.png form), the screenshot within photoshop is the "before"...
I've also tried to the merge layers beforehand as well, but it actually just displays the image as if it were the saved version, with the noise coming through extremely hard. I just didn't save it yet.
I appreciate the suggestion!

Noise Reduction Programs as External Editor

Can anyone tell me if I can set up a noise reduction program (Noiseware, Noise Ninja, Neat Image, etc) as an external editor to LR and use the "round trip" feature used with PS/PSE? I don't currently have either PS or PSE, since LR has been able to handle my editing needs with the exception of noise reduction. Hence my research into free-standing programs.
Thanks in advance.
Adam

From the Noise Ninja web site:
http://www.picturecode.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
"It is usually best to apply noise reduction as early as is practical in the workflow. Post-processing adjustments like sharpening, contrast stretching, and color balancing can alter pixel values and noise levels in unpredictable ways. Depending on the amount of adjustment, this can make it more difficult for Noise Ninja to estimate noise levels. Sharpening, for instance, is a nonlinear operation that can significantly distort the distribution of noise values.
If your workflow requires that you use Noise Ninja after some other operations, then try to create noise profiles using calibration images that have been put through the same operations.
Running Noise Ninja early in the workflow is a good rule of thumb, but Noise Ninja can be applied at any time. Sometimes it may not be possible or practical to run Noise Ninja at an earlier point in the workflow. For example, most users are not using a RAW processor with plug-in that allows Noise Ninja to be run before other adjustments in the RAW processor."

Workflow using a PS noise reduction action with LR???

OK, I've taken maybe 1200 pictures at a Volleyball tournament. I import them into LR and delete the OOF shots and keyword them with the players numbers. Then I filter for just one player's number and assign the ten best as picks...I need to do it by player number so each player ends up with the about the same number of pictures on the website. I repeat for the other nine players and now I have a a total of 100 picked photos.
Now I want to use a PS action for Noiseware to reduce the noise because LR's noise reduction isn't enough at ISO 3200. How can I get all of these to run as a "batch" in PS.
What I have been doing is to export these and then batch that folder in PS, but then I lose any keywords that went with the individual pictures.
Help...Thanks,
Bill

Bill-
You shouldn't be losing keywords just by virtue of running a batch in PS- double check the image's info after Export and before batch operation.
Next, make a PS action to do this. Then, from that have it make a droplet. Place droplet in LR folder for such, then make a custom Export preset in LR that calls in the droplet at the end of the choices. (Choose sRGB for your color space)

Noise reduction before or after enlarging ?

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