Noise reduction vs de-noise?

Can someone explain to me the difference between these noise reductions? The former (immediately below) is located in RAW Fine Tuning and seems to do quite a bit of noise reduction.
The latter (below), is its own adjustment and I fine does virtually nothing.

I fully agree, Kirby.
The latter (below), is its own adjustment and I fine does virtually nothing.
John, You are probably seeing no effect because of the very high value of the "Edge Detail" slider you have set. Try, if using a lower edge detail value will help.
The noise reduction does essentially do a kind of smoothing by analysing the image within the area described by the radius setting. This will blur the image if the radius value is high. The "Edge Detail" prevents smoothing out the edges. If your image has areas with a lot of texture, a high value for "Edge Detail" will prevent any smoothing at all, because textured areas have edges everywhere.
For example: two sections from Canon EOS MK II RAW images:
Left: Edge Detail= 4.0, Radius=4.0; Right: Left: Edge Detail= 0.0, Radius=4.0;
With a high edge detail value (left) only the homogeneous regions (the hull of the ship) has been smoothed by noise removal, but the textured regions not. The image is still sharp, but the sea surface is still noisy.
With a low edge detail value (left) noise reduction has been applied everywhere, also across strong edgest. The image is looking blurred.
The setting for "edge detail" is your choice between scylla and charybdis - set it high enough to get the noise removal you want, but low enough, to prevent the strong edges from being blurred. I usually apply it selectively to the shadows, and only, if the signal to noise ratio is very poor.

Similar Messages

Noise reduction using "Set Noise Print" in Process Menu

I have FCP 5.2 with Pro Tools and have searched the forum for the specific technique mentioned several times but NOT detailed out sufficiently for me. I want to remove a hiss and can isolate with ins/outs in the audio track where there is no voice. (this is a voice over produced clip).
I can click on the track and see the wave forms in the viewer. I can also edit the in and out playing only the his.
From what I gather, I can now somehow "set Noise Print" doing something (?) and then somehow (?) copy this noise to the entire click for removal. I know I could probably go through an extensive equalizing trial and error but if I could try this first, it may be just what I need.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks,
skip

We would all love this to be an FCP question, because it would be fab if this could be done within FCP. But alas, it is a Soundtrack Pro feature. Select your clip and "Send To" Soundtrack and you'll find noise removal there.
I'm guessing Pro Tools does something similar, so if you're familiar with it maybe you want to look there.

Noise reduction visible only in Develop area.

My Lightroom 5.4 for mac has a bug in noise reduction. The noise reduction is visible only in the develop area, and while switching to library it disappear. This affects also exported files and published files like flicker's one. I work with raw files taken with my nikon D5100. Is there any way to fix this bug?

Are you viewing these at 1:1 / 100% Zoom or smaller? Can we see screenshots of what you’re seeing at 1:1 zoom? Are you apply Export sharpening? Are you resizing smaller? Flickr does add its own sharpening, I believe.

Adjustment brush with exposure setting cancels noise reduction

Hello,
I just noticed the following problem:
1) Camera Raw 6.5; Bridge CS5 (4.0.5.11); Mac OS X 10.6.8; Mac Pro 3,1; Dual Quad-Core Xeon; 8GB RAM.
2) Start with a noisy raw file (mine is from a Canon 5D II).
3) Apply Noise Reduction (Luminance:30; Lum Detail:75; Lum Contrast:0; Color:25; Color Detail:50).
4) Go to Adjustment Brush and set a non-zero Exposure value.
5) Apply brush to image and notice the Noise Reduction effects disappear (noise returns).
6) Click Clear All button to clear Adjustment Brush and Noise Reduction works again.
This seems to only happen with Adjustment Brushes with a non-zero Exposure value (applying brightness or other settings don't seem to produce the problem).
Anyone else seeing this?
Thanks!

Richard (and others),
Yes, very good idea to check that. The problem does indeed get applied to the full sized, opened image as well as to the display previews. After working with this more, I now notice that I was wrong to say that the entire noise reduction is cancelled - rather it "changes", sometimes subtly, sometimes more dramatically depending on what the noise reduction settings are set to. Further, how dramatic the "changes" appear depend greatly on the preview zoom (the changes are more subtle at 100%, but it can look like the noise reduction is completely turned off at 50% and 66%).
Now I realize that the noise reduction does not ordinarily display at all preview sizes (especially smaller ones), but this is different. At preview sizes where it does normally get applied, applying an adjustment brush with any non-zero exposure value (even just +0.05) can have the appearance that the NR is completely turned off for the whole image. Simply nudging the exposure value back to zero brings all the noise reduction back.
Also, to be clearer and avoid confusion for others, the change in noise I'm seeing is not localized to just the brushed spot. Obviously if one increases exposure, you'd expect to potentially see more noise. Instead, what I'm seeing happens to the entire image, even if I simply paint a single small brush dot, say in a far corner. Having the image change globally in response to painting a small spot with the adjustment brush cannot be a correct result. Further, this does not happen with any of the other adjustment brush settings like brightness, contrast or saturation. There must be something unique about the exposure setting that perhaps introduces a new step into the processing pipeline, and this step is affecting the entire image.
In any case, the problem only seems to be an issue in somewhat extreme cases and is less noticeable at 100% (and the finally opened image). It's more just annoying when previews are generated for viewing in Bridge, for example.
I suppose one alternative might be to rob a bank and go buy one of those new 1D X's. Then maybe I wouldn't have to worry about noise anymore.
Thanks for the responses!

Neato Video Noise Reduction Filter

Merry Xmas
A fellow filmmmaker has used the 'Neato Video Noise' plug in with pretty good success. Was wondering if anyone else out there has tried it?
I have some underexposed footage shot on a DVX100, (low daylight footage), which I tried tweaking with the FCP HSL Filter. But as you may know, the HSL Filter must be used carefully (sparingly), or it will cause grain.
Anyone know if Neato's Noise Reduction Filter works more efficiently?
http://www.neatvideo.com/
Thank you
Mike
http://vimeo.com/7340608

No, there are no built-in noise reduction filters.
There are a number of free and commercial solutions out there ... the free ones are obviously worth checking out but less capable (try TMTS Noise Reduction and Smart Noise Reduction), of the commercial filters http://www.neatvideo.com/ and http://www.revisionfx.com/products/denoise/ seem popular.

Noise Reduction Programs as External Editor

Can anyone tell me if I can set up a noise reduction program (Noiseware, Noise Ninja, Neat Image, etc) as an external editor to LR and use the "round trip" feature used with PS/PSE? I don't currently have either PS or PSE, since LR has been able to handle my editing needs with the exception of noise reduction. Hence my research into free-standing programs.
Thanks in advance.
Adam

From the Noise Ninja web site:
http://www.picturecode.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
"It is usually best to apply noise reduction as early as is practical in the workflow. Post-processing adjustments like sharpening, contrast stretching, and color balancing can alter pixel values and noise levels in unpredictable ways. Depending on the amount of adjustment, this can make it more difficult for Noise Ninja to estimate noise levels. Sharpening, for instance, is a nonlinear operation that can significantly distort the distribution of noise values.
If your workflow requires that you use Noise Ninja after some other operations, then try to create noise profiles using calibration images that have been put through the same operations.
Running Noise Ninja early in the workflow is a good rule of thumb, but Noise Ninja can be applied at any time. Sometimes it may not be possible or practical to run Noise Ninja at an earlier point in the workflow. For example, most users are not using a RAW processor with plug-in that allows Noise Ninja to be run before other adjustments in the RAW processor."

Noise reduction function built into built into graduated filter and adjustments brush!

Really useful functionality, but maybe the tool name shout be "Noise reduction" rather than "noise" for the graduated filter and adjustments brush. If I understand it correctly, the way all the sliders work now is that that movement to the left decreases the function of the slider, and to the right increases the function - if that is the case, then by labelling the slider "noise" would suggest that moving to the right is increasing the noise when in fact it is the reverse!

The explanation is that "noise reduction" doesn't fit the available space in all languages.

Noise reduction before or after enlarging ?

Hi. I'd be interested in your opinion:
If the circumstances force me to work on images with noise which have to be enlarged, and if I use noise reduction based on noise-pattern-recognition, is it better to carry out the noise reduction before or after the enlargement (and in case the answer is after, which resampling method would resample the image (and thus the noise) best for subsequent noise reduction?)
And what's the logical rationale behind the answer ?
Thanks a lot!
PS: I think the answer will be the same for any type of noise, but if there are significant differences between noise types, I'd be interested in that, too.

Thanks for all your comments.
I also thought that NR should be applied as soon as possible, leaving the noise patterns intact. On the other hand I thought that enlarging also enlarges residual noise, so maybe the bottom line is to do a regular NR initially and then, after enlarging, a second weak/careful one on parts of the image if need be.
@Freeagent: very good tip the inverse luminosity mask! As for ACR: From my personal experience, ACR noise reduction is very effective on RAW material, but on all other sources it far lags behind noise-pattern-recognition methods.

Noise reduction on track1 using noise print from track2

I have an audio track from a video project that was recorded on track1 that has a lot of interference from the wirelss mic that was so strong that it crossed over to the idle track2. Track1 has the voice and interference intermixed. Track2 just has the interference. How can I take a noise print from track2 and use it to reduce the corresponding noise on track1? Any ideas?

Bristol87 wrote:
In addition, to make the process more challenging, I am unable to get the audio in the edit frame to play at the same gain as in the multi-track frame. In edit mode I seem to be at a 0db gain whereas the multi-track is playing at over 12 to 20db.
I am also unclear how to get the changes back to Final Cut. When I go to File to save it I do not see a Save option that would transfer the edited audio back to the Final Cut Project.
For the additional items you mention:
1. In your multi-track project, check your volume envelopes on the track, and check the level on your submix and master. To do this, click the the disclosure triangle just left of the track name. You'll see in purple the envelopes section, which is like keyframes in FCP.
2. You have to export a mix to send it back to FCP. Go to File -> Export, save the master mix with a file name, and most likely as an aiff file, then in the dropdown "After Export" choose "Send to Final Cut Pro Sequence."
For your noise reduction questions - applying noise reduction is for broadband, sustained noise, like an air conditioner or a hum. Are you trying to apply the same noise reduction to several files because they have the same type of background noise? I generally just save my settings, but set a new noise print for each file. I'll give you a quick step by step:
Select a bit in the file where there's JUST noise. Then go to Process -> Noise Reduction -> Set Noise Print. Then select the entire file, and go to Process -> Noise Reduction -> Reduce Noise. When the noise reduction window comes up, you just need to listen and play with the settings until you're satisfied with how it sounds. As a starting point, take a look at the level of the noise alone, and use that as the threshold. Usually 100% noise reduction doesn't sound good, but you just have to use some trial and error. Too much sounds worse than too little, in my opinion. When satisfied, apply it and save the preset.
Hope this helps!
Matthew

Vocal Irregularity after applying Noise Reduction

In this new project I followed Bob Howes instruction:
‘Set the FFT size (on the advanced menu) to 2048 and grab a noise print from a gap of "silence". Select the entire filed and do reduction by 7 or 8 dB and 15%ish reduction. Set the FFT size to the next one up, get a new noise print and do another pass with the same low settings. Keep going, upping the FFT size each time.’
This new project I started out first with a Hard Limit. Then I followed Bob's advise with managing by steps the FFT size.
Sample One is a piece of the original.
Sample Two is the results of the effects.
It sounds as though the speed of the vocals did changed - though one can listen to the vocal their conversation sounds - unnatural.
After removing noise is there another approach to redeem the vocals of those speaking?
Thanks!
Original Sample One
HardLimit - Noise Reduction Sample Two
Your video has been published at http://youtu.be/K63D5QNGb_I
Your video will be live at: http://youtu.be/uOtLUYiZyQc

Yes, you have very much overdone the Noise Reduction!
First, I'm not sure why you would need to first apply a "Hard Limit".
Second, are you sure you followed Bob's advice exactly, i.e taking a new noise sample and changing the FFT size on each pass? Are you sure you set everything exactly correct on that first pass?

Is there a way to apply noise reduction based on ISO value?

I shoot a lot of sports using auto ISO which means I get hundreds of images from a day with a variety of different ISO values, including all sorts of intermediate values (like ISO 280, for example). There are times when I'd like to apply LR noise reduction across the whole batch of images, but I'd like to apply it based on the ISO value of the image. For example at ISO 1250 and above, I want a particular NR Luminance value. From 640 to 1250, I want a different value. From 400-640, a different value. I know you can define some things at import time based on ISO, but that doesn't seem practical when the ISO value can be nearly anything as it would take hundreds of import profiles.
So, any ideas how to apply NR based on the ISO across a batch of images?

jfriend0 wrote:
How do "defaults" interact with a preset applied upon import? I shoot RAW and apply a preset upon import for every import I do. If I apply a preset upon import will it override the "default" anyway? If that's the case, then defaults are of no use to me.
Yes - Lightroom presets are absolute, but unlike the default settings, presets don't have to specify all the settings. If a preset setting is specified, it will blindly overwrite the previous setting, if not specified then the previous value will remain unaltered.
DevAdjust supports relative presets: final-value = present-value +/- relative-preset-value
Rob

Why does PhotoShop CC 2014 crash my Windows 7 Professional 64-bit PC every time I try to use Sharpen/Blur Reduction and also Noise Reduction ??!!!???

Hi Adobe
You a have a really wonderful PhotoShop CC product. It's really great, and I know new versions such as 2014 have their teething problems.
But I am getting really sick of my Windows 7 Professional 64-bit PC being crashed whenever I try to use PhotoShop CC 2014 Sharpen / Blur Reduction and also Noise Reduction.
This happens both with JPG's and PSD's.
Please sort your **** out and get some patches out to address this quickly !!
Chris Tattersall

Chris,
It doesn't crash for everyone. A person could be forgiven for saying, in return, "Please sort out your **** system problems".
Trust me when I say many, many problems are caused by the computer system setup not being up to the needs of this cutting-edge graphics software. Photoshop is heavily dependent on the GPU, and GPU drivers are notorious for having bugs (they're primarily written to run games).
However, that being said, recent driver releases from both ATI and nVidia do actually work pretty well with Photoshop CC 2014.
What video card do you have?
What display driver version are you running?
If you're unsure how to tell these things, go into Photoshop, choose Help - System Info, copy the data, and post it here.
-Noel

Is Lightroom really better for noise reduction than Adobe Camera Raw?

That's what I keep hearing from Lightroom users (who don't use Photoshop or barely touch it).
Which is better? or are they exactly the same? I'm not referring to a specific version, but I am personally using the latest Cloud versions of everything. I haven't tested it visually, I'm just now getting familiar with Lightroom.

Given the same version number, Lightroom and Camera Raw have the exact same sharpening and noise reduction. The only differences in ACR and LR are usability or UI aspects, the controls and rendering are the same.

Noise reduction works in preview but doesn't apply to file

I have a file that I would like to apply noise reduction to. So in the tasks menu I click Clean Up Audio, then under Noise I click Noise... From there I can play with the Noise settings and get it to clean up nicely. But when I hit OK, it doesn't apply the noise reduction. It seems to be doing something to the audio because the waveform changes.. just not reducing the noise as previewed. Anybody know why it wouldn't be applying the effect? Other audio editing options seem to work just fine.

It is a 16 bit 44.1 kHz mono sound effect.. it is noisy and sounds like it could have been 8 bit at some point in its life cycle.

Microfon problems s400 with noise reduction

Hello people,
have a problem with the microfon sound.
This recording is either noisy (without HD driver and with HD drivers without noise reduction) or it is distorted (with HD drivers and noise reduction).
Drivers I've tried from the Lenovo page and also from Realtek already.
here are a few tests
Noise: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1182020/test% 20HD% 20with% 20the%% 20treiber 20nachhallred.wma
distortion: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1182020/test% 20with% 20HD% 20treiber% 20with% 20rauschunterdr% C3% BCckung.wma
in the device manager for microphone stands for the version: 6.2.9200.16384 Microsoft.
Use Windows 8 Pro which I installed by myself.
Would be grateful for suggestions, I can not skype otherwise.
greeting

Dark areas have less bits to encode their values so a single bit of noise is a higher proportion of the total value.
For the basis of the default processing, to match the human eye’s response to dark and light, darker areas are brightened more than bright areas, using a non-linear gamma curve. This magnifies the noise in darker areas.
If you boost the brightness of dark areas using Shadows or Clarity, you are making that noise even more visible. Think of brightening as digitally increasing the ISO.
Adobe’s noise-reduction is calibrated to the original photo’s ISO setting, not how much you have digitally increased the ISO by brightening it, so if you have magnified the noise by extreme processing, you may be beyond what maxing out the NR sliders are calibrated to remove.
Exporting sharpening will sharpen any remaining noise.
Are you using the Mask slider in sharpen to keep from sharpening the noise grain in the Detail section? Use the Alt key while moving the mask slider to determine the optimal Mask level for a particular photo, where you can’t to have the edges indicated but not the wide areas of little detail.
It’s hard to guess what you’re seeing without seeing a screenshot.

Noise reduction vs de-noise?

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