# of APs per WDS?

Hello, we are in the process of starting to implement WDS and have well over 100 access points. I've read 2 different docs from Cisco, 1 saying that the max # of APs in each WDS should be 30 and another document saying 100. Does anyone have any suggestions/experience with how many APs in a WDS?
FYI, I'm planning on using an AP WDS if that matters and need to figure out how many APs I need to sacrifice to get this running.
thanks

I read the exact same thing in the setup for WDS, then in the new update for WLSE 2.7.1, it says
"Note A WDS AP can handle up to 100 APs in the same subnet if it is not handling radio traffic (a "dedicated WDS"). This requirement ensures that the AP has enough processing power to effectively handle roaming."
So that is where my confusion started.
I have close to 100 access points in one VLAN, so you are saying that I need to split them up in order to utilize WDS and have them all as WDS clients?

Similar Messages

How many Meraki APs per subnet/vlan

I am trying to cover a 90-story building. Voice is not a requirement, but I would like to be able to seamlessly roam across the infrastructure. How large can I build a flat network, and if I need to cross a threshold, what do I have to do to enable Layer 3 roaming?

The only reason I can thing of why that "soft limit" of 60 Cisco AP's per VLAN exists is the default logging configuration of the AP's. This is the broadcast address so every other AP receives all those messages also, once you configure an syslog destination that is no longer the case. I don't have much experience with Meraki, but I think that they don't work with an external syslog server at all.
I hope that all the other devices are being segment it on a per floor basis? If not, please investigate if you can segment at least some floors together with there own set of "local" VLAN's. You don't want network traffic being switched in "global" VLAN's all throughout the building on a scale like that.

Number of APs per VLAN

I know that is a best practice don't put more than 20 Access Points in the same vlan where is the management interface of the controller. But i would like to know the recommendation about other vlans.
I have serious problems when I put more than 20 APs in the same VLAN I loss conectivity with the other APs and i have to disconnect the 21th AP in order to recover communication with all the APs
I'm using WLC-4404, AP 1522 and Enterasys switches. What could be the reason of this problem?

You can have up to 60 ap's on a subnet other than the subnet the wlc is on. This is Cisco's recomendations. The reason why is the amount of broadcast generated by the ap's.

WDS and number of APs

Is it possible to have multiple WDS servers in one subnet?
I was wondering if entering an IP address at the option "Specified Discovery" for all APs could make it possible to have APs register themselves to a specified WDS AP in one subnet? My client will go well above the max of 60 WDS APs per server.

Hi Bas,
Here is an excerpt from a Cisco document that addresses this issue:
How many infrastructure access points (APs) can a single WDS manage?
A single WDS AP can support a maximum of 60 infrastructure APs when the radio interface is disabled. The number drops to 30 if the AP that acts as the WDS AP also accepts client associations.
Can I set up more than 60 access points (APs) in a WDS that uses AP-based WDS?
Do not use more than 60 APs on one WDS master. You can run into CPU utilization problems with more than 60 APs. You can have multiple WDS masters, but they need to be on different subnets. An example is the use of:
One WDS master and 30 APs on 10.10.10.10
Another WDS master and 30 APs on 10.10.20.20
In this case, the issue is that you cannot fast roam between WDS domains.
Here is a link to the actual doc:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_q_and_a_item09186a00804d4421.shtml#qa8
Here is another link to a doc for configuring WDS AP's:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/cscowork/ps3915/products_user_guide_chapter09186a008052db43.html#wp1948756
Hope this helps!
Rob
Please remember to rate helpful posts.....

WDS deployment

Hi
I have to propose a Wi-Fi zone for a university.There are around 8 floors and I plan to go with 1200 series
A simple solution which would come to your mind is 1231g (IOS) installed in WDS mode.Documents shows that
Client1==AP1==WDS==AP2==client2
will work fine. AP1 and AP2 are in range with WDS master on which I will terminate internet connectivity with ethernet handoff.
Great! Now the design specific problem I am facing that there is nowhere written or shown that
Client1==AP1==AP2==AP3==WDS==AP4==AP5==client2\
would work.AP1 and AP2 are not in direct wireless range with WDS. So is AP5.
So will this work.
The idea is to deploy 2 APs per floor and both the floors' APs should work in WDS so that I would not have to lay ethernet for each AP.
Pardon me for being silly.....
Also I have seen that there is around 50% signal degradation (3-4dB) loss per floor.Will above setup work?
Pardon me for being silly.....:)
Any ideas? comments?
Thanks in advance.
JD

There are many threads for this, have a look : https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Search/en-US/Technet?query=invalid%20credentials%3A%20the%20network%20path%20was%20not%20found&beta=0&ac=5
Arnav Sharma | http://arnavsharma.net/ Please remember to click “Mark as Answer” on the post that helps you, and to click “Unmark as Answer” if a marked post does not actually answer your question. This can be beneficial to other community members reading
the thread.

APs Controlled from Agent instead of WLC?

I have 8 APs directly connected to a stack of 3850 switches operating as the WLC. I have 4 more APs connected to another 3850 stack on a different floor operating as a wireless mobility agent. I have a trunk link directly between the two 3850 stacks. If I log into the GUI for each of the stacks, I can see the APs that are connected to each stack, respectively. I have no visibility from the WLC to the APs that are connected to the agent.
Is this the normal behavior? Do I have to do my management of AP groups and WLANs at both the WLC and the agent? Was I mistaken in my understanding that the WLC operates as a central point of control? Below is the wireless mobility summary output from each stack:
WLC Stack:
Mobility Controller Summary:
Mobility Role                                  : Mobility Controller
Mobility Protocol Port                          : 16666
Mobility Group Name                            : default
Mobility Oracle IP Address                      : 0.0.0.0
DTLS Mode                                      : Enabled
Mobility Domain ID for 802.11r                  : 0xac34
Mobility Keepalive Interval                    : 10
Mobility Keepalive Count                        : 3
Mobility Control Message DSCP Value            : 60
Mobility Domain Member Count                    : 1
Link Status is Control Link Status : Data Link Status
Controllers configured in the Mobility Domain:
IP              Public IP        Group Name      Multicast IP    Link Status
10.10.60.3      -                default          0.0.0.0          UP : UP
Switch Peer Group Name            : SPG1
Switch Peer Group Member Count    : 1
Bridge Domain ID                  : 60
Multicast IP Address              : 0.0.0.0
IP              Public IP            Link Status
10.10.60.2      10.10.60.2            UP : UP
Agent Stack:
Mobility Agent Summary:
Mobility Role                                  : Mobility Agent
Mobility Protocol Port                          : 16666
Mobility Switch Peer Group Name                : SPG1
Multicast IP Address                            : 0.0.0.0
DTLS Mode                                      : Enabled
Mobility Domain ID for 802.11r                  : 0xac34
Mobility Keepalive Interval                    : 10
Mobility Keepalive Count                        : 3
Mobility Control Message DSCP Value            : 60
Switch Peer Group Members Configured            : 1
Link Status is Control Link Status : Data Link Status
The status of Mobility Controller:
IP              Public IP            Link Status
10.10.60.3      10.10.60.3          UP : UP
Switch Peer Group members:
IP              Public IP            Data Link Status
10.10.60.2      10.10.60.2          UP

That's all well and good if the controller can be pinged. What is usually the case here is that there is no route to the management interface of the controller or the ap manager interface as well. Check to see if there are IP address conflicts with those two interfaces. Next, make sure that you have not exceeded the total number of APs per physical interface. If you have add a LAG group or a second ap management interface. Verify security certificates are on the APs and that the date and time on the controller is accurate. Lastly, make sure you have no PoE issues or CDP. You're beating a dea horse here guys.

Distribution of APs on both ports of WLC

Hi,
I have Wireless LAN Controller 4400 running. Currently all 50 APs are running at one port of WLC. I have studied on Cisco site, that its best to run 24 APs per port of WLC and total 48 in total. My all APs are running at one port.
Can you please tell me is there any issue if i run all 50APs on one port and is this any bottleneck?
Also if i want to shift half APs to second port, What will be configuration for WLC?
Looking forward for your responses.
Thanks
Bilal

So what you mean to say is that its no issue if i run 50APs on one port.
Qoute
Cisco 4402 Controllers have two Gigabit Ethernet distribution system ports, each of which is capable of managing up to 48 access points. However, we recommend no more than 25 access points per port due to bandwidth constraints. The 4402-25 and 4402-50 models allow a total of 25 or 50 access points to join the controller.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/controller/7.0MR1/configuration/guide/cg_ports_interfaces.html
If i want to shift half ports, do i need to enable LAG?
http://what-when-how.com/deploying-and-troubleshooting-cisco-wireless-lan-controllers/lag-cisco-wireless-lan-controllers/
Please let me know. Thanks

APs missing from WLC

My customer who has one WLC4402,36 AP1130.Some of APs miss from WLC sometimes but I can ping those APs at this time.I can not find any messages from WLC(version 4.2.61).Any suggestions?

That's all well and good if the controller can be pinged. What is usually the case here is that there is no route to the management interface of the controller or the ap manager interface as well. Check to see if there are IP address conflicts with those two interfaces. Next, make sure that you have not exceeded the total number of APs per physical interface. If you have add a LAG group or a second ap management interface. Verify security certificates are on the APs and that the date and time on the controller is accurate. Lastly, make sure you have no PoE issues or CDP. You're beating a dea horse here guys.

25 APs / Port Anchor WLC versus Guest WLC

Greetings, first timer here.
We're adding public internet access to our existing wireless network. We are using a 4402 WLC for our guest controller, and our secure WLC is a 4404.
Cisco recommends placing a limit of 25 APs per distribution port, and we utilize that practice on our 4404. My question is, once we add the guest controller, which uses the same APs as the Anchor controller, do we have to re-apply the 25 AP/port rule to the guest controller?
The 4404 obviously has 4 distribution ports giving a max of 100 APs, and the 4402 has 2 resulting in only 50 APs. We've got all of our APs covered by the best practice on the 4404, but would exceed that on the 4402.
I thought that because the data is moving between the WLCs via the ether tunnel, I was covered by the 4404.
Thoughts or suggestions?
I can't seem to find anything in the white papers or best practices.
Thanks to all
Larry

I have no factual information to back up what I am about to say and it may be partially incorrect, but this is how I always explained the process of guest anchoring:
So the 25AP suggestion per interface I think is because of the fact that if you had more than 25 APs on one port, you could theoretically be over subscribing the bandwidth than the port could provide (25AP@40mbps = 1000mbps)....
Anyhow, unless you plan on actually sending a gig worth of traffic to your Guest Controller, I don't think there is any real need to split your anchor. I'm pretty sure Guest Controllers are usually for internet access and 1Gb worth of internet bandwidth sure seems like alot to me..
Also, I had always thought of the anchor tunnel similar in nature to an AP LWAPP tunnel. The controller that supports 25 APs is designed to support 25 LWAPP tunnels. The 50AP model, supports 50 LWAPP tunnels. This same logic could be applied to the WLAN Anchor tunnels. Think of each WLAN Anchor Tunnel as an AP connected to a controller.
When a guest is anchored to the Public Controller, it isn't the AP that is tunneled there nor the client, it is the WLAN. So you could have 25 APs with the same guest WLAN, but really it is still just 1 WLAN anchored to the controller. If for some reason you wanted to do more than 25 different WLANs, then I would suggest splitting those WLANS between your interfaces...
I think the bottom line though is that if you aren't worried about over-subscribing your interface on the anchor controller, there shouldn't be any concerns.

No of client supported per radio on Cisco Access Points?

Hi Experts,
Is their any documentation that lists out the number of clients that can be handled efficiently per radio against a particular model of access points?
The question might appear quite ambiguos considering the fact that the wireless communication works on the principal of air time and shared medium. However still curious to know if latest model of access points make the enhancement any better.
Learnt quite some time back that 1262 WAP supports 15 clients per radio while 3700 would easily do with over 128 client per radio. Not sure on what basis we distinguish this?
Appreciate if someone could share their knowledge on same. Would be grateful if we a pointer to any doc is shown as well giving the comparision.
Thanks and Regards,
Adnan

Hello Scott,
Glad to see your response.
Does this rule of thumb(of 25 APs per radio) applies to all the access points models?
Little confused from document( http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/wireless/buyers-guide.html#~indoor ) which lists different client count values against different models. Suppose we are having 600 series of WAP, the doc says it has client count value of 15. So I made my own conclusion that only 15 clients active association is possible at any given instant in time and if the 16th client tries association, it will fail and would be able to succeed only when the already associated client count goes a little under 15.
Can you please throw some light on the document claims?
Thanks,
Muhammed Adnan

Some 1142n APs not getting PoE

Hi All-
I have deployed 40 1142n Access Points and have them connected to 6509-E switches.
No more than 6 APs per switch and no other PoE devices.
All but 4 have booted and and associated the the controllers. The ones that have not have the folowing in common:
1. Their LEDs cycle through "Red, White, Green"
2. On the switch, the 'show power inline | i gx/x" command gives:
Gix/x auto on 17.3 15.4 Ieee PD 3
Any ideas?

1140 operate at 15.4w.
Make sure CDP is enabled and what IOS is the 1140 loaded with?

Problem regarding WDS (roaming doesn't work)

Hello everybody,
I'm trying to implement WDS with some Cisco Aironet AP1242AGs and NPS-server as radius-server.
After having a few problems, I finally got WDS running. I dedicated two APs as WDS-masters (with different priorities) and two APs as WDS-candidates. For the AP-authentication I configured the WDS-master as a local radius-server with a local user. The WDS-candidates are able to authenticate with the local user to the WDS-master and appear as "registered" in the wds status, they also send their mobile node information to the WDS-master.
For the client-authentication I use the NPS-server.
But when a client, which is authenticed to one AP, moves to another AP, roaming isn't working and the client have to authenticate (full 802.1x-authentication) to the NPS-server.
All APs are in the same vlan (but different from the wireless-vlan for the clients!).
Do you have any ideas, why the roaming isn't working? Or do I have to configure anything special at the client-side?
Thank you in advance!
Best regards,
Walter

Hi again, I don't know what's happen. I'm confused. First problem with roaming, right now with internet. I have got turn on access 500 mb and is not working, on this moment I must use wifi. My mobile phone is ok, because I checked also on the other.I must go to the instore, but I m shocked because I never take off my sim card, everythink was ok, the problem is from March, and sim is in the good condition. Replacement with this same no. is for free ?, and this will be the same day ?My last very important question this is no problem when I have got sim without contract ??? but I have a pin, and small book. Thanks for answer

Design for 600 APs

Hello,
I would like to know what is the best design to deploy 600 APs on 4 Wism (on 2 6509, two Wism per 6509, so 4 controllers per 6509). The capacity of the whole is 1200 APs to keep redundancy.
I remembered that the best practice for standalone AP was one hundrer APs per Vlan. Is it the same with Wism ? So do I have to create 16 Ap Managers:
> one controller on a wism = 150 Aps, so 2 Aps Managers / controller
Is it a good way to deploy the AP or can you advise a better design ?
Thanks a lot,
Best regards,
Gerald.

And CAPWAP (use for traffic between AP and WLC WISM) is L3 only. You could use 2,3 or more vlan for your AP. Each AP use IP of AP Manager (learn by dhcp, dns,...) for join the WLC.
Christian

Using a single user name for RADIUS

I have a WLAN with 5 1200 Series AP (A/G) configured for Fast Roaming using the Cisco supplied documentation. Can I use one user name for all of my devices to connect to the Internal Radius Server? This would be similar to having a passphrase for WPA. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Chris:
I understood you have autonoomus/standalone APs wiht WDS (Wireless Domain Server) configured for FSR. right?
You can use same username from multiple devices if your Radius does not prohipit more than one session per username.
Make sure that your RADIUS server allows multiple sessions for the user you want to use and it should work.
Note please that using same username with multuple users is not the same of using PSK (talking from security perspective). using 802.1x is usually more secure.
HTH
Amjad

AP541N - Cluster Frage....

Hallo,
Ich habe mehrere AP541N jetzt schon öfter mal über einen Switch mit PoE in einem Clusterverbund angeschlossen. Alle APs waren also wired über einen Switch verbunden. Das "Master"-Gerät hat dann die Konfiguration an die anderen Geräte übertragen.
Funktioniert prima!
Eine neue Herausforderung war das Aufbauen eines Feldes mit mehreren AP541N, die NICHT wired mit einander verbunden sind, sondern nur über WLAN.
Das Mastergerät ist natürlich verbunden, irgendwo muss ja was herkommen. Dort habe ich das WDS konfiguriert. Auf den weiteren APs habe ich ebenfalls die gleichen VAP Einstellungen vorgenommen und unter WPS das Mastergerät angegeben bzw. das vorherige "Slave"-Gerät.
Funktioniert auch gut, Nachteil hier: Man muss alle APs vorher identisch konfigurieren, besonders die WLAN Einstellungen und Verschlüsselungen. Auch auf den Kanal ist zu achten. Die Geräte müssen auf dem gleichen Kanal senden, sonst finden Sie sich nicht. Nach kurzer Zeit baut sich der Tunnel zwischen allen APs auf und ein Client verbindet sich mit dem nächstgelegenen AP.
Nun noch ein Schritt weiter: Ich dachte mir, ob auf diesem WDS Wege auch Clustering funktioniert? In der Hilfe stehen folgende Bedingungen für ein Cluster:
-The APs use the same radio mode (for example, radio 1 uses 802.11g) <-- klar
-The APs are connected on the same bridged segment. <--- Hier war die Frage, ob es zwingend Wired sein muss ---
-The APs joining the cluster have the same Cluster Name. <--- auch klar
-Clustering mode is enabled on both APs. <---- schon kalr
Lange Rede, kurzer Sinn: ich habe es einfach mal ausprobiert. In meinem Beispiel habe ich bei drei AP541N, die per WDS miteinander verbunden waren Clustering aktiviert, die identischen Clusternamen eingeben und abgewartet. Relativ schnell baute sich das Cluster auf, das konnte ich im Mastergerät auf der entsprechenden Seite sehen.
Allerdings bemerkte ich dann doch zunächst einen gewaltigen Trafficeinbruch. Die Konfigurationsseiten bauten sich nur noch schleppend auf.
Nun war ich gespannt. Das Mastergerät würde nun ja die komplette Konfiguration auf die anderen APs im Cluster übertragen. Auch die WDS-Konfiguration? Dann müsste das Netz im nächsten Moment ja zusammenbrechen, da der Tunnel zwischen den APs nicht mehr existieren würde.
Nach einer Weile hatte sich der Traffic augenscheinlich erholt. Die VAP Konfiguration war komplett auf alle AP541N übertragen worden. Die WDS Konfiguration blieb scheinbar unberührt. Macht ja auch Sinn.
Ich habe jetzt noch nicht weiter getestet, aber zur Diskussion steht für mich: Theoretisch scheint ein Cluster über WDS zu funktionieren, aber macht es Sinn? Abgesehen vom Traffic-Verlust.
Nachteil ist hier eindeutig, das die Vorbereitungen für einen WPS Tunnel zwischen den APs aufwendiger ist. Bei einem Wired Cluster muss ich mich nicht darum kümmern. Da muss ich nur den Cluster einschalten und den Clusternamen eintragen, der Rest läuft (fast) von selbst.
Aber bei einer Umgebung, wo ich kein Kabel verlegen kann, wäre es doch eine Alternative, oder? Den Traffic und die Zuverlässigkeit teste ich noch.
Eure Meinung?
Pasadena

Hallo Pasadena,
Bitte vergeben sie mein schlechtes Deutsch, ich muss es nur selden schrieben.
Sie haben recht das die 541s nur mit einanandern ein cluster formen konnen.
Die neuren WAPs sind anders programmiert. Es heist Single Point Setup, und es geht nuhr uber wired, so wie ihre test zeigt. Ich kann nicht sagen warum das geandert wurde. Ich glaube es ist geplannt das die neuen WAPs auch uber wireless einen Cluster aufbauen konnen, aber ich weiss nicht wann oder ob dass wirklich passiern wird.
Sie konnen naturlich WDS benutzen, und dan die WAPs einzeln einstellen, aber sie haben ja schon gesagt dass Cluster uber wireless moglichkieten wichtig fuhr ihre kunden ist.
Du kanst auch das SBSC anrufhen und nach ein feature request fragen, aber da kann ich wieder nicht sagen wann oder ob das passiert.
Cisco Small Business Support Center Worldwide Contact Numbers
Es gibt auch Enterprise APs (aironets) wo mit ein Wireless LAN controller ein "Cluster" formen, aber die sind miestens viel tuerer als Small Business gerate.
Sie solten auch mal die Cisco Meraki APs anshauen, die haben Cloud based setup, da kann man sehr viele APs auf einmal progammiern durch ein web-based console.
https://meraki.cisco.com/de/content
Man, ich muss wirklich ofter Deutsch uben, hofentlich konten sie mich verstehen.
Danke dass sie Cisco benutzen,
Christopher Ebert - Advanced Network Support Engineer
Cisco Small Business Support Center
*please rate helpful posts*

# of APs per WDS?

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