ON2 vs FLASH Moviestar!
Hi guys,
new beta of Flash 9 codename "Moviestar" was released, o
course you all know that. Personally, I'm excited about the support
of h.264 in new version of Flash becouse video quality will go up
and file size(and data rate) will not change!
What do you think about the future of that new feature?
Quality and file size are dandy? So what about the future of
ON2? Will the h.264 support in Flash kill ON2?
the video is beautiful, that's all i know.
Similar Messages
-
Issues with Size of FLV VBR 2-pass vs 1-pass Encoding in CS6
Hey Everyone,
I've been doing some testing on various systems (using either Windows 7 or Windows 8 Consumer Preview) using Premiere Pro CS6 as well as Media Encoder 6 and I've noticed that encoding FLV files using VBR 2-pass encoding produces a file that is significantly larger than the same source file encoded using just a VBR 1-pass.
For example, one test that I ran used 10 seconds of DVCPRO HD 720P 29.97 footage as source material. I exported all clips exported as .flv, 960x540 square pixels, 29.97 fps, 1000 kbps and everything else left at default settings.
Here were my results:
Size of Export via Premiere Pro CS5 VBR 1pass: 1.564 MB
Size of Export via Premiere Pro CS5 VBR 2pass: 1.618 MB
Size of Export via Premiere Pro CS6 VBR 1pass: 1.450 MB
Size of Export via Premiere Pro CS6 VBR 2pass: 3.622 MB
Eric Addison of 100 Acre Films also ran a similar test on his system and got these results:
Encoding 10 secs of a P2 AVC-I 1280x720, 29.97 clip using the same settings as above to FLV
Premiere CS6 Export VBR 2 pass – 2.87 MB
Premiere CS6 Export VBR 1 pass – 1.55 MB
AME 6 Export VBR 2 Pass – 2.85 MB
I've tested this out with short clips, ~3 min sequences, raw clips, and clips with lots of effects, and I continue to get consistent results with the VBR 2-pass file being anywhere from 30% up to 300% larger than the same clip encoded using just 1-pass encoding. Again, this doesn't occur using Premiere Pro CS5 or 5.5 (or AME 5), so it appears to be just an issue within CS6.
Would anyone else be willing to run a similar test using their system and own source files and post your results in this thread to determine if this is a system-wide issue or just flukes?
Thanks!
Kevin Tostado
Tostie ProductionsJust checking if there's any progress on this?
We're having a similar problem, I just made a bug report. -
Concise problem statement:
With CS6, rendering Flash Video files using AME creates files that are unuseable. They have bad flickering, and look like files that have been encoded with half the bitrate. This happens on all of our cs6 workstations, and has been happening since we moved to cs6. Our workaround is to render the file to a 30mbps H264 file, then open cs5.5 media encoder and transcode it to flash, where it renders them perfectly, as it used to! This is happening on projects where there have been no changes at all between cs5.5 and cs6 - we can render exactly the same timeline out of premiere pro in cs5.5 and it looks fine, then in cs6 it looks like crap.
Steps to reproduce bug:
Render an on2 vp6 flash video out of premiere pro.
Results:
Any parts of the video with gradients or hard colour contrast will look like crap, either blocky or blurry, like it's been encoded at a super low bitrate.
Expected results:
This is happening on all sorts of projects - stuff with titles generated in premiere pro, stuff with PNG files in it, stuff with sony EX1 footage, with segments of uncompressed video rendered in after effects,... basically everything.
Since filing the bug report, I've read this thread and worked out that like you guys it does only happen for us with 2 pass encoding. So at least now we have a better workaround than transcoding, we can just export in 1 pass. I don't like having to do that. Yes, probably loads of people can't tell the difference between 1 and 2 pass and blah blah blah other codecs are better, we all know that! We have to use on2 VP6, for lots of annoying reasons, one big one being that we have a lot of corporate clients who put our videos on their intranet, and don't let their staff update their media players, browsers, OS's etc. - so the only video they can reliably use for everyone is an on2 VP6 file. Anyway, would be great to have a fix, we're only just making back all the time we lost from having to transcode all our Sony EX1 footage that premiere pro cs6 couldn't deal with (that tearing issue is now fixed, thank f*ck). I doubt I'm going to be able to justify spending loads of money on upgrading to cs7 when it comes out after all the bugs we've had to deal with in this one. -
I've been trying to convert movies for my N8. So far, I couldn't get the right conversion factors such as the resolution, bitrate, frame rate, video codec, etc.
The videos I convert work on my N8 but the size always exceeds 1GB, and the video isn't in full screen.
Does anyone here knows the best video conversion setting for the N8?
Thanks in advance.
Solved!
Go to Solution.Hey again 00RaiserTwo!
Here are the specifications regarding the Video for the N8, I hope this was what you where looking for.
Display:
360x640 pixels
Video Playback Performance:
encoding 25fps
decoding 30fps
File Formats:
H.264
MPEG-4, VC-1
H.263
Real Video 10
ON2 VP6
Flash video
Press the 'Accept As Solution' icon if I have solved your problem, Kudos my post if my advice has helped you! -
Can't get On2 Flash Video to show in Compressor 3
I've followed the steps below:
In the settings window, click the little icon with a + and a down triangle, then choose QuickTime Export Component. Then when the panel comes up, choose Flash VIdeo (FLV) from the Encoder Type drop menu. Then hit options to choose your options.
But the only FLV option that shows is Macromedia FLV exporter DEMO VERSION that was installed with MX
I bought the On2 FLV exporter but can't figure out why it doesn't show up in the "Quicktime Export Component" menu. However, It does show up in the "Use Quicktime Conversion" menu of Final Cut.
Any Ideas?Yeah, it's definitely supposed to. Here's some info from On2's (new) web site regarding Flix Exporter. The previous site had the same info for Flix Pro:
"Flix Exporter
Export high quality FLV and SWF files for Adobe® Flash® Player 8 and 9 from any QuickTime supported application to get broadcast quality On2 VP6 video.
Flix Exporter is a 'plug-in' compatible with any QuickTime supported application such as:
Desktop: Discreet Media Cleaner, Canopus Pro Coder (VP6 for Flash video only), Quicktime Pro, Adobe After Effects, Apple Final Cut, and Apple Compressor.
Server: Telestream FlipFactory, and Rhozet Carbon. "
http://www.on2.com/index.php?399
When you say, "With the recent QT update I had to go into preferences and check the enable flash." Are you referring to the QT preferences or the Flix Pro preferences? My version of Flix isn't standalone, only plugins placed in the QT folder. What's even more frustrating is that we're using the Flip4Mac plugin as well to export WMV and this is working just fine in all applications (QT, FCP, and Compressor). Flix only works in QT. -
On2 Flix Pro or Telestream Episode Pro w/ Flash option?
Like most of the posts on FCP 6 and Compressor 3, I was crushed to find out that you need to spend an extra $350 - $500 to export a timeline to .flv
Flash seems to be the most compatible option for web video so I have to have that option. I don't have CS 3 on my current machine. Has anyone tried On2 Flix Pro or Telestream's Episode Pro? Any feedback on ease of use, quality, etc?
I also need to send timelines to our Grass Valley server....again I was crushed to find out that you need a plug-in to do that.
I vote for a clear WARNING on future packaging. FCP is a GREAT GREAT product, but I really got the impression you got it all - flash, grass valley export, and color!Kevin,
for a visual comparison of various Flash encoding tools, look no further than here:
http://www.flashvideofaq.com/
If you get along with 1-pass encoding, Flix Encoder Standard does the job well.
It's currently offered for $39.
http://www.on2.com/products/flix/flix-standard/
If you don't need the newer VP6 codec from Flash 8 I can also recommend Visual Hub ($23.32).
http://www.techspansion.com/visualhub/
Epsiode (you only need the basic, not the Pro version) produces the best quality, has the greatest amount of control, integrates with Compressor etc. but has a quite hefty $495 pricetag (Episode basic w/ Flash 8 option) if you don't need the other functions/export formats.
http://www.flip4mac.com/episode.htm
If you really only need Flash Export, then On2 Flix Exporter can be integrated into a compressor workflow, too, although I didn't test this tool myself. $200.
http://www.on2.com/products/flix/exporter/
Hint:
Why not try the 30-day demo version of Flash?
It installs a standalone encoding tool plus a quicktime export component.
Hope this helps.
Best regards, Oliver -
CS4 media encoder crashes if On2, 2 pass selected
Hi,
I have tried this with several .mov files of different sizes,
both in pixels and in duration. (from 6 minutes to 5 seconds)
When I encode to F4V everything is fine.
When I encode to FLV with ON2 and 1 pass everything is fine.
When I encode to FLV with ON2 and switch on 2 pass the
progress bar stops at the half way point for a while and then Media
Encoder closes. A zero byte file is left in the directory.
I am using CS4, on windows XP. I have downloaded all updates
for my Adobe products. I have restarted my computer. None of these
things make any difference.
It crashes every time with 2 pass on.
Addition to post.
I have now reinstalled flash pro CS4 and media encoder.
BEFORE checking for and installing any updates I tried encoding a
completely new file and experienced exactly the same crash when set
to ON2 2 Pass.
I then installed all updates again. No change, same crash of
Media Encoder.
MarkHi Mark,
I tried encoding a source mov file to On2 VP6 with 2 pass and
it worked for me for both CBR as well as VBR case. This was on
Windows XP and I have Premiere Pro and AME installed on the system.
If you import the file directly into AME (instead of sending
it via Flash) and then encode, do you still get the crash?
Thanks
Aurobinda -
I’m having serious problems inserting Flash Video into
my site (and I have uploaded the script folder and file).
Background:
I’m fairly experienced with most software, but I am
totally new to web creation/web software. Code is above my head.
I created a family site using DW8 version 8.0.2. I took an
original WMV file and converted it to a FLV file using Adobe
Premiere Elements 3.0. I’ve done this step using both the
Sorenson Spark and the On2 VP6 codecs.
With my newly created FLV file (grandparents.flv), I inserted
it into my DW8 page using >Insert>Media>Flash Video. It
drops in and previews fine locally using the Preview function. This
process also creates the following files in my local directory: a
skin file (Clear_Skin_3.swf), a player file
(FLVPlayer_Progressive.swf), and a Scripts folder containing one
file (AC_RunActiveContent.js).
I upload all these files to the server and, while the flash
video works fine locally, it just shows up as a white box on the
web.
I’ve spent the better part of three days researching
this problem and see that it is common. That said, uploading the
Scripts folder/file as I have done does not solve the problem for
me as it appears to have done so for others.
As an aside, I can drop in the original WMV file into an
embedded Windows Media Player on my web site and that works fine.
That said, I don’t want to do it that way, I want to go with
Flash.
Anyone have any ideas.
The page in question is at:
http://www.strauss.com/Lauren.html.
Any help would be appreciated….I’m at my wits
end. Thanks.You have multiple instances of CSS and js links in the head
of the page.
Please remove the redundant ones.
Your flash is not working because this file -
http://www.strauss.com/FLVPlayer_Progressive.swf
is not properly calling the FLV file from the server. By
browsing directly
to it, you will see that you only get a blank page.
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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- Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go
- DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
- Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"BrianMN" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
news:ercn65$m65$[email protected]..
> And my problematic page is at:
>
>
http://www.strauss.com/Lauren.html
>
> Murray, any suggestions? I have read many of your
responses where your
> point
> out "upload the scripts file/folder". I have done that
and still have the
> problem.
>
>
> -
Convert CS4 Flash 10 as projector file to AIR For fileStream Writing Capabilities Not Working
Have a simple kiosk .exe that works fine as a projector/.exe on PC platform.
Wanted to add stats output to file of when FAQ buttons pressed.
fileStream class available when I change publish settings to AIR AND works greate when I test movie w/in Flash, but
I try to publish and click the .exe I don't see anything.
Any info would be appreciated.Here's a general dive on RTMP. You can see the packet structure contains metadata in the header about the content that will follow. The NetStream link I put above talks about it as well when using appendBytes(). The byte(array) parser understands FLV files with a header. After the header is parsed (again, see RTMP and what the server sends (0x12) before invoking a play), it expects all future calls to appendBytes() to be a continuation of that file (or stream). In other words, the first call to appendBytes() is missing the header.
This is where I rely on FMS for the most part. I know it knows to send a header upon connection. If you're implementing your own streaming setup you're going to need to supply this just like a FMS RTMP connection would (in AMF). I haven't needed to do anything this custom but if you get the structure of an initial RTMP connection (sniff it with a fiddler2 or find a resource on the structure) and encode it in byteArray, send it first to appendBytes with the correct information about the video you're sending, it should work.
Otherwise it makes sense appendBytes is failing by just getting a chunk of binary without having a header (the instructions on what exactly the binary is and how to use it).
Strictly per the documentation, On2/VP6 should be fine, I use it for all my old f4v projects. I'm not sure about MPGA/V. -
Flash video not reporting when finsihed
Using a flash video object in Flash 9 via netStream off my
local hard drive I am finding when my long video reaches the end I
don't get the expected NetSream.Play.Stop. I just get this from the
netStream.onStatus at the end of the video
status : NetStream.Buffer.Full
status : NetStream.Buffer.Empty
status : NetStream.Buffer.Full
If I make a 10 second version of the video I do get the
expected NetSream.Play.Stop. I am using On2 VP6 and have tried it
as CBR and VBR bit rates.
Oddly enough as I switched to this web site to type this and
the flash movie was overwritten by the browser I suddenly got the
NetSream.Play.Stop! WTF is going on with this video object, it used
to do this in Flash 8, you'd think the boys at Adobe would have
made this system work better by now?
Any thoughts on how to deal with a unreliable video system?
KevinUsing a flash video object in Flash 9 via netStream off my
local hard drive I am finding when my long video reaches the end I
don't get the expected NetSream.Play.Stop. I just get this from the
netStream.onStatus at the end of the video
status : NetStream.Buffer.Full
status : NetStream.Buffer.Empty
status : NetStream.Buffer.Full
If I make a 10 second version of the video I do get the
expected NetSream.Play.Stop. I am using On2 VP6 and have tried it
as CBR and VBR bit rates.
Oddly enough as I switched to this web site to type this and
the flash movie was overwritten by the browser I suddenly got the
NetSream.Play.Stop! WTF is going on with this video object, it used
to do this in Flash 8, you'd think the boys at Adobe would have
made this system work better by now?
Any thoughts on how to deal with a unreliable video system?
Kevin -
Issue with video playback in Flash Player
I am currently doing some voluntary work for my mom for the local branch of the Alzheimer Foundation. Now I have encoded a video to mpeg4/h.264 and F4V using the Adobe Media Encoder only I am having not much luck to get it successfully played. Now is my question what could I be doing wrong? I already tried to use ActionScript 2 and 3 and disabled GZIP compression on the server and even tried different files like H.264 and F4V.
The strange thing is that the video always work just fine when being tested in Flash CS4 10.2 but when I tried it in the browser it fails. The Test Movie feature of Flash is using the following player version MAC 10,0,12,36. I am using 10,0,32,14 MAC in my Safari browser and their the movie plays fine once the file is fully downloaded (how can I change this?) only when let friends try it out which have version 10,0,32,18 or the same version it doesn't work for them. Also when I am using an older version doesn't seem to work. I thought that H.264 support was added in some version of Flash Player 9. One of the issues which I was getting that the video playback worked lovely in Test Movie with the below listed alzheimer.mp4 url but when testing after the SWF and HTML were uploaded to the webserver it failed to work and I was receiving a FileStructureInvalid error. Now I would expect that the video file would fail in Test Movie too when the video file structure is invalid.
I have tried the following video files both encoded with Adobe Media Encoder:
http://www.letslearn.it/dropbox/alzheimer.mp4
http://www.letslearn.it/dropbox/alzheimer08.f4v
The current player can be found at:
http://www.letslearn.it/dropbox/alzheimer.html
I have attached my As3 version of the Flash file which is normal easy video stuff.
Anyone happen to know what could be the issue here? I am getting desperate!Yes, I have just used the normal Video-object together with the normal trick to load Flash Video files with it. Nothing special only with a full URL for the play()-method. I have attached the source code for your convenience. The original files are edited in Premiere Pro CS4 and are based on one original ripped DVD vob file and a newly created Quicktime-based slideshow animation which has then be edited into one using Premiere.
After that I have selected the sequence of the Premiere project which I have exported using File > Export which is using Adobe Media Encoder. For the encoding I haved used the Export Settings: "Format FLV | F4V", Codec On2 VP6 and then altered the video size and bitrate so that the file size gets smaller this is for the Alzheimer08.f4v file. The other file used the H.265 Web Medium profile with also the video size and bitrate modified after it got encoded and uploaded to my webserver.
The original files used by the Premiere Pro project are:
VTS_01_1.dv
Type: DV Stream
File Size: 2.6 GB
Image Size: 720x576
Average Data Rate: 3.4 MB/Second
Compressor: DV - PAL
Quality: Normal (3.00)
SLIDESHOW 2.mov
Type: QuickTime Movie
File Size: 3.2 GB
Image Size: 720 x 576
Average Data Rate: 3.4 MB/Second
Compressor: DV - PAL
Quality: Most (5.000)
Above information is obtained in Premiere Pro by selected Properties-option of the submenu when selecting the file.
Hopefully you can use this information but I could upload the original Premiere Pro project over the next few days. If you would be interested in it.
FLA file: http://www.letslearn.it/dropbox/alzheimer.fla -
Possible bug in flash player 9 with video..somewhat urgent help
Hi,
I was making a site based on heavy use of video. The site was
working just fine, the videos played well, actionscript ok, etc.
Last night I upgraded my flash player, and suddenly the site looks
completely broken.
Videos now have large pixels and they don't play right.
I uninstalled flash player 9, went back to 8, and there they
work ok again.
Originally they had not the best quality to save bandwidth,
but they looked just fine for the scope of the site. If I re-encode
them to a higher quality, they look better in FP9 but we're talking
about almost 60% more size to achieve what had been done correctly
with flash player 8. No one seems to have this problem right now,
but I think it is a major issue, cause not everyone is using 400kb
to encode the videos. It must have something to do with the codec
inside the plugin, they way it handles everything in low
resolution.
I have to say I tried everything: quality =high, embedded
video, flv progressive, 100%quality to JPG when publishing, etc.
The video looks bad ONLY with flash player 9. I am not allowed to
publish the address but I think this might have happened to someone
else too. please please any help appreciated, I'm on due date
(everything was finished!) and now it cannot be uploaded like this.
thanks a lot!!
IndiraFlash 9 is out of beta - d'oh!
Anyway, I have a few video's published on the web. They are
encoded at 400kb (medium quality/On2 codec). Check them out:
http://www.lsac.org/lsac.asp?url=/VideoStreams/gettingthere/GettingThere.html&chapter=1
That video looks the same on Flash Player 8 and 9 on IE and
Firefox.
I have no idea what is wrong with your videos, but there is
no bug in Player 9 as far as I can tell.
You have to publish at least one of your videos and it's url
so that I can see the problem that you are describing. -
Importing mp4 into Flash 8, converting to FLV
I just finished taking a Flash Video class where I understood
I could import an MP4 and convert in to an FLV using encoding tools
that come with Flash Professional 8. However, I opened a new FLA
just now and tried to import an MP4 (File -> Import Video),
Flash would not recognize the sample MP4 I have sitting on my
desktop.
I downloaded a demo copy of On2 FlixPro and it did recognize
the MP4, is converting it to an FLV as I write this.
Did I misunderstand about importing MP4s into Flash 8
Professional? Is it in fact not possible. Or might there have been
something I didn't do or didn't do correctly before importing? If
so, what might it have been?
Thanks in advance.chris_whalen,
> I opened a new FLA just now and tried to import
> an MP4 (File -> Import Video), Flash would not
> recognize the sample MP4 I have sitting on my
> desktop.
The MP4 file extension does not appear in the filetype
filter of the
Import dialog, but if you select "All Files (*.*)," that
should work. I've
imported MP4s (they're MPGs, after all), but the extension
doesn't appear
under the "All Video Formats" choice. (I'm hoping this is
what you mean by
"would not recognize," anyway.)
David Stiller
Adobe Community Expert
Dev blog,
http://www.quip.net/blog/
"Luck is the residue of good design." -
Accessing Flash Video Encoder Programmatically
At the moment I am working on a batch program that will take
video files, and /encode them into FLVs. I would like to do this in
a programmatic (command line way), so that I can can embed this
into a nightly batch process.
Can the Flash Video Encoder support this need?As far as I know about FFMPEG, it does not encode using on2
vp6, which is the superior codec for flv. I too am looking for a
programmatic way of transcoding to flash using the on2 vp6 codec.
on2 has the Flix Engine SDK, which is quite expensive, but it
allows you to programmatically transcode using vp6.
If there is another product out there that can do this (at a
non-expensive cost) I would love to hear about it. -
Hi,
i hope someone can help me.
When i make flv file in Video Encoder (3 min) i see the
process i the window.
But when i open Flash and Browse the flv file it stop after 1
min.
I have make this before but now it´s problems.
Whats wrong?
Bets Regards
L G BlomIf you want to batch encode FLV files on a server (not
necessarily via a web UI), I'd recommend Sorenson Squeeze. You can
create batch jobs with watch folders. It works nicely. I believe
you can do the same thing with On2 Flix Pro too. You'll get better
quality out of these products as well. -
Streaming with on2 VP6 8 bit alpha canne
I need to send a live streaming to Adobe Flash Media Server encoded with on2 VP6 8 bit alpha cannel (chroma key) so all clients see only the speaker with no background.
what hardware or software support realtime encode VP6 alpha channel ?
thanksOoppp, got mixed up with chroma-keying... sorry 'bout that.
So what have you tried? have you attempted to stream video with alpha channel to the server? what happened? How are you displaying the video at the other end?
Is it on a Web page? are you using wmode=transparent as a <param> on the vido player? so that the player itself becomes invisible?
Here is an example of a VP6 video with alpha played over the top of a video page (the walk on):
http://www.mrfilmbiz.com/
This is not a live stream but a progressive downloaded video, but I don't think it would matter. The thing that let's you see that the alpha channel is there (because the player is invisible) is using the wmode=transparent. Of course you may need a custom Flash player like the one used in the example above... it uses NetStream rather than the FLVPlayback component... I'm not sure if you can make the component disappear like that.
For review:
Window Mode (wmode) - What's It For?
There are three window modes.
Window
Opaque
Transparent
By default, the Flash Player gets its own hWnd in Windows. This means that the Flash movie actually exists in a display instance within Windows that lives above the core browser display window. So though it appears to be in the browser window, technically, it isn't. It is most efficient for Flash to draw this way and this is the fastest, most efficient rendering mode. However, it is drawing independently of the browser's HTML rendering surface. This is why this default mode (which is equivalent to wmode="window") doesn't allow proper compositing with DHTML layers. This is why your JavaScripted drop-down menus will drop behind your Flash movie.
In windowless modes (like opaque), Flash Player doesn't have a hWnd. This means that the browser tells the Flash Player when and where to draw onto the browser's own rendering surface. The Flash movie is no longer being rendered on a higher level if you will. It's right there in the page with the rest of the page elements. The Flash buffer is simply drawn into whatever rectangle the browser says, with any Flash stage space not occupied by objects receiving the movie's background color.
Hope this help a little.
Best of luck,
Adninjastrator
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