Overclocking decisions (Mainly RAM freq.)

Hello everybody:
This is my first post. Hope to come here often and participate whenever I can.
First of all, I'm new to this stuff of overclocking, but it is a very interesting subject.
I read the sticky posts on this category, but still some questions rise.
I'm planning on building a system for me. I'll be doing mostly programming, digital photo processing (a lot of), and Video Editing (also a lot).
I'm checking MoBo's from several brands, looking through websites with tests and comparisons and benchmarking
I'm almost decided on MSI 875P FIS2R + P4 because I think Hyperthreading can be very useful in the programs I will use. Also i'll need lots and lots and lots of space, so i'm thinking on RAID 0, with 4 SATA 150 250GB drives. This should be enough
Also stability is somehow an issue. I can't afford to lose hours of work just because the darn thing freezes!
So, now that you know the story of my life, here come the questions:
I'm actually quite confused with all this mix of DDR, FSB and CPU frequencies.
Assuming I'll buy a P4 C Northwood, I cant' go over 4 Ghz with it, right?
So I'll assume the best performance I can get from a P4 C system would be using a 3.2 Ghz processor with DDR 500 and an FSB running at 1000 Mhz, right? This would allow me to run the system at 1:1 4Ghz, the processor's limit.
Would the MSI 875P FIS2R support these settings? Would the system be stable (in theory)?
In terms of performance, what would happen if I used DDR of a different frequency (higher or lower)?
Would a system of P4 C 3Ghz + DDR 533 + FSB running at 1066 Mhz be more stable then the previous one? Are there motherboards able to support 1000-1100 FSB's?
Running a system at a ratio different than 1:1 would affect performance in what way?
What's your opinion on More RAm vs Faster RAM (2 GB DDR 400 v 1 GB DDR 550), for general use? Would a system benefit more from the former or the later?
Faster SPD or higher frequency? (For instance 2-2-2-6 DDR400 vs 3-4-4-7 DDR 550)
One last question regarding the case/ventilation/power... Any suggestions?
Sorry for the long post
Hope to hear from you
Jose Rodrigues

I will try to answer what I can.
If you are going to O/C to 4Ghz good luck, and you will have to consider better cooling than stock.
As far as your ratio question I was running in 5:4 @ 3.3Ghz but games like Age of Empire and Galactic Battlegrounds would stutter like crazy. When I tried 1:1 @ 3.0Ghz everything was fine. NO stutter an all. It has been mentioned on this forum before and I totally agree, 1:1 is best.
My opinion on more ramm would be (general use) 1Gb is enough and the higher the ddr the better, as long as the mobo can handle it. DDR 500 will O/C better than DDR 3200
The higher frequency ramm usually do better with relaxed timmings. 3-4-4-8
Ventilation is a book in itself. In thru the front out thru the rear. Putting a blowhole in the top is always a good idea. Chieftech makes a good case. I would stick with a brand name PSU . PC Power and Cooling make a great PSU, but they are pricey.
If you set up RAID 0 with 4 250Gb HD I am shure you know that what you will have is a very fast 250Gb SATA HD.
I hope that helps.

Similar Messages

Overclock!! + RAM Problem

hello...every one....i want to overclock my pc but i dun't how to do it..... can help me?? :P
pc spec:
AMD Athlon XP 1800+ (Palo)
MSI KT4 Ultra (MS-6590)
256Mb DDR Kingston @ 266mhz
MSI Ge4 MX440 64 mb
original cooler master head sink
Microsoft Windows XP Pro
another question is i have two RAM:
1 is 128mb DDR Apacer CL 2.0 @266mhz,the other one is 256Mb DDR Kingston CL2.5 @ 266mhz, why when i plug this two ram at motherboard, the system will slow down?? is just use either 1, the system will be faster?? why??

Here is a guide to overclocking:
http://forums.overclockers.co.nz/showindex.php?s=&threadid=1096
Is your CPU unlocked?

X79-gd65 (d8) overclock with 32gb ram?

Greetings,
I searched here for an answer, but didn't see one. I did notice one user doing a test with eight dual-channel sticks of RAM, though.
I bought this motherboard for a 3960X, and populated it with two quad-channel G-Skill RipJaws 2133 MHz kits (4x4gb). I had read on other forums that I needed to enable the XMP for this memory to work at 2133 MHz, but the computer doesn't seem to want to do this with Profile 1 selected. I haven't even tried Profile 2, thinking this probably has something to do with using 8 sticks of RAM vs. 4. I also have not changed any voltages - I thought the XMP would take care of all of that.
Does anyone know if I can use the memory at 2133 using this setup? I also want to overclock the processor, but figured I'd start with the memory and move on after that was working.
Thanks,
DrDet

Excerpt from G.Skill;
2. The default DIMM frequency depends on its SPD, which is the standard way of accessing information from a memory module. Under the default state, some memory modules for overclocking may operate at a lower frequency than the vendor-marked value.
3. G.SKILL guarantees module compatibility within this specific Quad Channel kit. Combining with other memory kit or module(even with same part number) is not recommended to avoid any compatibility issue.
Mixing two kits can be problematic right at the start. The other, the platform's CPU IMC natively supports 1600 at 1.50v's + or - 0.075v's. Since the exact part number is not listed, going by the G.Skill information for 2133 rated RAM, the very lowest DRAM V. required was 1.6v's, with most kits requiring 1.65v's. Also, your OS is not stated. Some of these kits also have a disclaimer they will only work up to 16GB with W7 Home Edition.
I wish you luck with the RAM you have, but I would recommend as possible better choices Corsair's 32GB matched kits. Currently 4 kits available, two of them 1600 rated, two of them 1866 rated, all four kits are 1.50v's. I have run the 1866 rated 32GB kit successfully on only 1.50's. At the moment, due to the restriction of a CPU cooler, I am restricted to low profile RAM only. Using the Corsair Low Profile, Low Voltage 1600 rated Vengeance (white) 1.35v, 4X2X4GB kits from the same production batch, although this is also a risky practice, as Corsair recommends against mixing kits as well.
As a side note. The CPU V. industry recommendation for everyday use is up to 1.35v's. Intel listed absolute max is 1.400v's which is considerably lower than it's Sandy Bridge cousins that have an industry recommended everyday max of up to 1.400v's. Mine runs at 4747 on Auto V. which sets 1.352v's at load, all power saving features are enabled allowing idle & low use at 12X & hovers around 0.780-0.816v range.

Overclocking and upgrading ram

Is the processor overclockable, and is the memory upgradeable to 6 or 8Gb

uscwaller wrote:
Is the processor overclockable,.....
I don't know if it is. But I do know the MBA is the very last computer I would consider for such. Overclocking generates more heat, and if you were doing so to increase performnce, the MBA would surely give you overheating problems.

RAM freq under Bios 1.37

I am currently running 16GB Hyperx pnp at 1600MHz. My bios is v1.36. Has anyone confirmed that v1.37 sticks with 1333MHz config? Is it permanent?
W520 i7-2760, FHD, Win7 Pro&Ubuntu 12.04, Q1000M, M4 256GB, Hitachi 500GB 7200RPM, 16GB HyperX PNP, Ultimate-N 6300, BT|
T61 Intel Duo T7300, Ubuntu 10.04, Hitachi 500GB 7200RPM, 4GB

My tests with the W520:
Geekbench 9358 with BIOS 1.36 (memory runs at 1600 Mhz)
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/788560
Geekbench 9308 with BIOS 1.37 (memory runs at 1333 Mhz)
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/788372
4575 PCMark 7 with BIOS 1.36
http://3dmark.com/pcm7/374878?key=-ZNaXr3xd4uSmmv9wzyuhg
4558 PCMark 7 with BIOS 1.37
http://3dmark.com/pcm7/374262?key=ujQS6W0lgBOncgFCKfk1EQ
PS: I believe the reason there is not so much difference is that with 1333MHz the Column Address Strobe (CAS) latency is lower.
W520 4270CTO i7-2820QM Quadro2000M 1920x1080 Display 16GB RAM 2x240GB Intel 510 SSDs (RAID 0) - BIOS 1.42 - PCMark7:4,568
Samsung Series 9 15-inch NP900X4C-A03US - PCMark7: 4674

Decision on RAM

I just got my MBP 2.0 and have decided to add a matched pair of Crucial 1 GB SO-DIMMS. There was a lot of back and forth on adding another brand with matching specs but decided not to go that route. Soooo - looks like I will have the factory installed 1 GB SO-DIMM available to ship to someone by Saturday.
Not sure how critical the "matched brand & specs" is but I did not want to spend any more time wondering about it.

Susan - the memory is Samsung but after the second day I had so much noise from the defective power inverter that I returned the MBP - used the purchased memory in my new Mac mini (same specs). My plan is to purchase another MBP once some of these issues are resolved.
FWIW - the 1.66 Mac mini w/ 2 GB ram is impressive.

P45 Platinum - Overclocking Core2 Duo & Ram

Hi all,
I recently got a P45 Platinum. Have had alot of bother with it todate. It started off when it recognised my memory at 800Mhz when infact it was 1066 DDR2 Dominator. Bios update version 1.1 looked like I could set it too 1066 on auto but it still recognised it as 800mhz. However Bios update 1.1 would not boot with my Nvidia GX2. Cured that got the beta 1.2b and all works well.
However I am running 3dMarks06 and the max I pushed out of my system was 15000 :-( . Was kind of hoping for bit more, still very laggy in crysis at times.
I am thinking about pushing a little more outta my CPU but if i fiddle with the CPU FSB currently default 333 it does not boot right and resets to be done. I have set the voltage to 1.3 and ram 2.0.
Any thoughts on this issue.
PC Spec
Vista Ultimate
P45 Plat
E8500 3.16Ghz
4gb DDR2 1066 (not sure if it infact does run at this)
Nvidia GX2
Hiper Typer R PSU 730Watts
Cheers!

Quote
It started off when it recognised my memory at 800Mhz when infact it was 1066 DDR2 Dominator.
Your memory modules are recognized as DDR2-800 modules, because the SPD-Chips of these modules do not have an SPD-Profile for DDR2-1066 which the BIOS could detect to set memory clock speed to DDR2-1066. Your modules present themselves as DDR2-800 modules to the BIOS (because they are basically DDR2-800 modules). The BIOS can only read SPD profiles, not what Corsair has actually printed onto sticker that is on each module.
Quote
4gb DDR2 1066 (not sure if it infact does run at this)
If you check the official Corsair datasheet for your modules, you will see that it will say that these modules were tested @1066 MHz @2.1-2.2V, not that they are DDR2-1066 modules. At the bottom of the datesheet you will find a brief note telling you that the actual OC results "may vary". I am not sure which memory related settings you have tried so far. If you need advice and suggestions regarding memory settings, please let us know the precise model name/number of your modules and tell us which settings you have tried so far.
Quote
i fiddle with the CPU FSB currently default 333 it does not boot right and resets to be done
What settings have you modified besides FSB clock speed & voltage?

MOVED: P45 Platinum - Overclocking Core2 Duo & Ram

This topic has been moved to Overclockers & Modding Corner.
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=118617.0

Quote
It started off when it recognised my memory at 800Mhz when infact it was 1066 DDR2 Dominator.
Your memory modules are recognized as DDR2-800 modules, because the SPD-Chips of these modules do not have an SPD-Profile for DDR2-1066 which the BIOS could detect to set memory clock speed to DDR2-1066. Your modules present themselves as DDR2-800 modules to the BIOS (because they are basically DDR2-800 modules). The BIOS can only read SPD profiles, not what Corsair has actually printed onto sticker that is on each module.
Quote
4gb DDR2 1066 (not sure if it infact does run at this)
If you check the official Corsair datasheet for your modules, you will see that it will say that these modules were tested @1066 MHz @2.1-2.2V, not that they are DDR2-1066 modules. At the bottom of the datesheet you will find a brief note telling you that the actual OC results "may vary". I am not sure which memory related settings you have tried so far. If you need advice and suggestions regarding memory settings, please let us know the precise model name/number of your modules and tell us which settings you have tried so far.
Quote
i fiddle with the CPU FSB currently default 333 it does not boot right and resets to be done
What settings have you modified besides FSB clock speed & voltage?

Neo4 Overclocking Guide

This guide is intended to help those people who have K8N Neo4 (nforce 4 based) boards. It will provide some general background information, but a lot of things will be specific to this particular series of motherboards, and in general it is assumed that the user is at least moderately familiar with the basic concepts of computer hardware and the concepts and risks associated with overclocking. As usual, I am in no way responsible for any losses/damages resulting in whole or in part from the use or misuse of this information, or in short, "overclock at your own risk". It should also be noted that I have the Neo4 Platinum, so things might be slightly different for those of you with the SLI or other variants of this board, though I would strongly suspect that most of the overclocking features will be pretty much the same. Anyways:
The Basics:
Okay, for those of you who are new to the overclocking crowd, here is a quick overview of some of the essential bits of knowledge. A very complete and thorough introduction and general overclocking guide is also available at https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=40413.0 for those of you who need extra help.
CPU Speed - If you don't know what this is, then I wonder what you were hoping to attain by accessing an article about "overclocking". The main aim of overclocking is to increase the CPU speed beyond what it is originally specified to run at. The CPU speed is equivalent to the product of your FSB speed and the CPU multiplier.
FSB - FSB is short for "frontside bus". Historically the FSB essentially controls the speed at which the CPU is able to communicate with the rest of the system, and this is pretty much still true for the Athlon64, although the impact of higher FSB speeds is somewhat diminished, as we will see later. On the Neo4 (and most any other board) the FSB and various multipliers/dividers are responsible for determining the core CPU speed, the memory speed, and the HTT speed. You PCI-E bus is locked, so raising the FSB will not cause your video card and other devices to become unstable. Additionally, there is no need to worry about an overclocked FSB screwing up the built-in SATA/IDE controller (the nforce one at least, I haven't tested the SiL, although it should be fine as well).
HTT - HTT (or sometimes just HT) is short for "HyperTransport Technology". Not to be confused with the HyperThreading feature on Intel's P4 processors, this is the communication link between an Athlon64 processor and the PCI-E bus, as well as everything that hangs off this bus, including the SATA/IDE controllers and so on. Basically, everything except for the RAM talks to the CPU via the HTT bus. The speed of the HTT bus is determined by taking the product of the FSB speed and the HyperTransport multiplier, and it provides an extremely large amount of potential throughput, so much so that once its speed is above about 800 MHz, there's very little to be gained by pushing the HTT speed higher.
Memory Clock - The memory clock refers to the speed at which the RAM modules are operated. The memory clock is determined by taking the FSB and applying a ratio to it. Generally speaking, a higher memory clock is better, although there are tradeoffs in terms of latency if memory timings (CAS latency, etc.) have to be loosened in order to get the memory clock higher, or if a ratio other than 1:1 is used (which will be necessary for high overclocks unless the RAM you are using is of extremely high quality).
PCI-E - The PCI-Express bus. This provides connectivity for your graphics card(s) and other add-in cards. The default PCI-E speed is 100 MHz, and this is locked on the Neo4 so that increasing the FSB does not increase the PCI-E speed. You may manually increase the PCI-E speed if you wish, although this is not at all recommended.
vcore - This is an abbreviated way of referring to the voltage that is applied to the CPU. Generally speaking, a higher vcore will provide stability at higher clock speeds, the tradeoff being additional heat, which may or may not require a more robust cooling solution, depending on how high the vcore is being pushed, the quality of your thermal interface compound, and the thermal characteristics of your individual CPU (some just overclock better than others). For the 90 nm Athlon64, the default vcore is 1.40V. The default is slightly higher for the 130 nm variants.
vmem - Similar to "vcore", this is a shorthand way of referring to the voltage that is currently being applied to the RAM modules. Again, an elevated vmem will generally give you improved stability at higher memory clock speeds. Memory specifications vary from manufacturer to manufacturer in terms of what voltages are supported (for instance, my RAM supports from 2.55V to 2.95V), though the default voltage is usually 2.65V. Vmem, vdimm, and vram all refer to the same thing.
Purchasing:
For anyone who happens to stumble across this guide while in the process of looking for some new hardware, I thought I'd list some of the things that are important considerations when you are buying a system with the intent of overclocking it.
The CPU - For most people, the main point behind their desire to overclock is that they want to be able to get a cheap CPU, and then run it at the same speed (or faster than) of a CPU that costs much more (possibly one for which the price premium has not come down on yet). When choosing which CPU to purchase, there are a few aspects that are especially relevant to overclocking (I'm going to assume that you've already decided to use an AMD CPU, due to the reduced overclockability, thermal problems, and generally poorer performance in most areas despite having higher raw clock speeds that all of Intel's current P4 models offer). Arguably the most important feature (when looking at the current Athlon64's anyways, which are very good CPU's and which you have to use if you want the Neo4) is the manufacturing process used. This denotes the size of the smallest individual feature on the chip (smaller is better). Your two choices right now are 90 nm and 130 nm. The 90 nm carries a fairly small price premium (about $10 for the 3000+/3200+ models), but is *much* more overclockable due to the fact that it operates at a lower voltage (and thus generates less heat), and also uses a more "mature" revision than the 130 nm parts. It is *strongly* recommended that you make sure to get a 90 nm CPU if you are in the market for a new socket 939 Athlon64. The next thing to consider is the default CPU multiplier. This is the one reason why it might be preferable to get a 3200+ over a 3000+ chip (generally speaking, all the 90 nm Athlon64's have about the same upper limit on their overclocked core speeds, until you hit the still very expensive 3800+ and FX variants, so it doesn't make sense to buy a more expensive CPU when you're not getting any extra overclockability out of it). The multipliers on the Athlon64 CPU's are "half-locked", meaning that you can run at the default multiplier (9x for the 3000+, 10x for the 3200+), or any multiplier that is smaller than the default, but you cannot select a multiplier that is higher than your default multiplier. Thus, getting the 3200+ over the 3000+ gives you two extra multipliers (10x and 9.5x) and, all things being equal, will let you achieve a higher clock speed before you are forced to run your RAM asynchronously and pay the latency penalty for doing so, although your max clock speed will likely be about the same as it would if you had gotten the 3000+ instead (so if you have cheap RAM that's not giong to overclock well at all, there's very little reason to go with the 3200+ unless a RAM upgrade is planned in the near future). So, for overclocking purposes my recommendation is a 90 nm Socket 939 Athlon64 3000+, or if you have high performance memory and want to get the most out of it, the 3200+. Both chips are competitively priced and should overclock at least to 2.4 GHz, if not higher, on stock cooling (spend the extra $10 for the non-OEM variant and get the HSF that comes with the chip, it works as well as many more expensive third-party air-based systems and is well worth the extra $10), and of course both offer the attractive feature-set of a socket 939 Athlon64 (dual integrated memory controllers, 64-bit support, dual-core processors on the future upgrade path, etc.).
The Motherboard - The motherboard is an important part of overclocking as well. There's not much point in getting a highly overclockable CPU and then pairing it with a mainboard that was not designed with overclocking in mind, and this is one area where the Neo4 really shines...it has superb overclocking support. Probably the most important feature to have if you indend to overclock your CPU by 20%+ (which should be easily attainable on either of the recommended CPU's above) is that the board have locks that prevent the overclocked FSB from overclocking parts of the system that can't handle the extra speed (like the PCI/PCI-E bus, for example), and long story short, the Neo4 has these (unlike the Via-based K8T Neo, which had no locks and which limited SATA users to overclocks of no more than about 225 MHz because any high than that and the SATA controllers would start to become unstable and kill your HDD data...working locks are a very good and important thing if you are overclocking). The next important feature is to choose a board whose BIOS lets you control the options that are important for overclocking. Again, the Neo4 does excellent here, letting you pick your memory divider, memory timings (and some very obscure ones at that), CPU multiplier, FSB speed, HTT multiplier, CPU voltage, chipset voltage, RAM voltage, and so on without complaint. The MB also has a handly little button on it that will clear the CMOS with a single press (no more screwing around with those annoying jumpers) in case you screw up and the system won't POST. The board also has some extra cooling hardware installed in the form of a passive heatsink near the rear I/O panel, but mostly it's the presence of functional locks and the wide range over overclocking related BIOS features that make it attractive from an overclocking perspective. Aside from this, it has a very nice feature set in general, including 8 SATA ports and 2 IDE channels (for a total of up to 12 drives), two gigabit ethernet adapters, firewire, 7.1 channel audio, and the additional selling point that nvidia's unified drivers tend to be much easier to install than most companies' drivers.
Cooling:
Okay, one last thing to consider before the overclocking starts. Cooling is important in general and especially if you are going to be overclocking. While a 90 nm Athlon64 performs rather admirably from a thermal perspective even when only stock cooling components are used, some simple modifications can drop your idle/load temps by 5+ degrees, which can give you a bit more overclocking headroom and which in any event will make your CPU happier.
Case Fans - The first thing you want to do is make sure your case is adequately ventilated...in general a single 120 mm exhaust fan will do the job just fine. If your case does not support fans this large, use at least two 80 mm fans, either both as exhaust, or one as exhaust and one as intake (if they perform differently, use the more powerful one as the exhaust fan to avoid overpressuring your case). If noise is a concern, the Vantec Stealth (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-999-614&depa=1) series of case fans are affordable, come in a variety of sizes, perform quite well, and do not make much noise at all (though you might want to consider doubling up on the 120 mm's just to be on the safe side). This can lower your CPU temp by about 2 to 5 degrees over a poorly ventilated case configuration using the same CPU fan.
CPU Fan - As I mentioned earlier, the default CPU fan that comes packaged with the retail Athlon64 chips is perfectly acceptable for overclocking use in my opinion. The only complaint I have is that the thermal compound that comes preapplied to the HSF is fairly cheap and does not perform that well. I *very strongly* recommend replacing it with Arctic Silver (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm) before ever installing it on your CPU. To remove the default thermal pad, you can use a razor blade to get most of it off, and then hot soapy water (or denatured alcohol I've heard) to remove any remaining reside. Be sure that the HSF is free of any cleaning residue and also of any moisture before going to install it on the CPU, and then just apply the Arctic Silver and then complete the HSF installation, and you're good to go. Arctic Silver is relatively cheap (the tube you'll get will do several CPU's, and it doesn't go bad), and by replacing the thermal pad that comes on the stock HSF with it, you should be able to reduce your idle/load times by at least 5 degrees, and with this plus the added reduction you get from having a well ventilated case, you should have enough headroom to pull off some pretty aggressive overclocks.
Overclocking:
Finally, on to the good (and Neo4 specific) stuff. Hopefully at this point you have a freshly built Neo4 based system with an Athlon64 CPU that provides a large headroom for overclocking.
Initial Setup - Okay, the first thing you're going to want to do once the system is built and powered on for the first time is enter the BIOS and configure everything to run at its *default* settings. It's not quite time to overclock yet. First, you want to install Windows, patch it to SP2 if necessary, and then install some benchmarking, stress testing, and monitoring software. SiSoft Sandra is a good benchmark suite, as are FutureMark's PCMark and 3dMark lines of software. For stress testing you can use SuperPi and Prime95 (and Memtest86 if you don't mind the tedium of having to reboot in order to use it, which I do so I don't bother with it). For monitoring you can use SpeedFan or Motherboard Monitor 5. At the very least you should install one application from each category, and configure your monitoring software to launch when Windows loads. One you have all this configured and working right, it's time to start overclocking (don't install too much else, in case of the worst case scenario in which an instability causes your HDD to become corrupted, requiring a reinstall of Windows and all the software, which is admittedly very unlikely, but unfortunately possible if you're unlucky enough). For comparison purposes you may want to run some benchmarks and record the results before you start. Additionally, you may want to install something like ClockGen, which will let you tweak your FSB/CPU coltage on the fly and which can make it easier to zero in on a stable configuration without having to reboot every time an instability is found.
BIOS Layout - Just to save some time, I'll describe where BIOS options that we'll be using are all in one place, so that when I reference something you can just look up here and figure out how to find the appropriate setting in the BIOS. Basically, there are two pages that we're interested in for overclocking (note that the Neo4 manual is actually extremely well done, and describes pretty much all of the BIOS options, so you can use it as well). The first is the "Advanced Chipset Features" page. Going "Advanced Chipset Features" -> "DRAM Configuration" brings up pretty much all of your memory related options (divider, timings, etc.), *except* for the RAM voltage. The RAM voltage option is on the "Cell Menu" page, which happens to also contain all the other settings we are interested in, including FSB speed, HTT multiplier, CPU multiplier, vcore, vmem, chipset voltage, etc.. Basically, if it's not memory related, it's on the "Cell Menu" page.
HTT Speed - As mentioned earlier, your HTT speed pretty much has no performance impact on the system once it gets to 800+ MHz, so the very first thing you can do is select the 4x HTT multiplier in the BIOS. Note that as the HTT speed gets above about 1100 MHz, it will probably start to make the system unstable. Therefore, you should keep track of the product of your FSB setting and your HTT multiplier, and whenever it gets to be above 1100, decrement the HTT multiplier to the next lowest setting. at a 4x multiplier, you should be good up to about 275 MHz on your FSB. Because the HTT's impact on performance is negligible, you do not need to worry about trying to maximize its value during overclocking.
CPU speed - Onve you've reduced your HTT multiplier, it's time to find your max stable core speed. To do this first go to the memory page and select a memclock index of 100 MHz. This will run your RAM it half the FSB speed, and the reason for doing this is to ensure that as we raise the FSB, any instability the occurs is a result of the overclocked CPU and not a result of overclocked RAM, so that we can be sure that we have indeed found the maximum stable CPU speed when we are done. Leave your other RAM settings at their defaults, we'll come back and tweak these later. Now go to the CPU page and select "Manual" for the "High Performance Mode" option if necessary to enable editing of the settings. You should disable Dynamic Overclocking (since you are doing this manually) and I recommend disabling Cool'n'Quiet, though you don't have to if you really don't want to. Disable all the "... Spectrum" settings (what these do is kind of complicated, but the manual plainly states that they should be disabled if you are overclocking, so heed its advice). Also disable "Aggressive Timing", as this will decrease your RAM overclockability substantially without providing any real benefit (and may make it unstable even at its rated settings). Now, what you want to do is, leaving the other CPU settings (i.e. vcore and multiplier) the same, start raising your FSB Frequency in 10 to 12 MHz increments, depending on your multiplier (basically you want to raise it about 100 MHz at a time). Some people feel this is a fairly large jump to do at a time, but I've found that the Athlon64 handles it just fine. If you get up above about 2.4 GHz, then you might want to only go by half of this at a time though. Remember to decrement your HTT multiplier as necessary. Basically, every time you raise the FSB, test for stability by letting the system try to boot to Windows. If it is successful, return to BIOS and raise the core speed some more. Once the system fails to boot, you have two options, either raise the CPU voltage (use the "CPU VID" setting in the BIOS to adjust the voltage directly, or the "CPU Voltage" setting to specify how much over the specified amount of voltage to apply...personally I prefer the "CPU VID" route, but it's really a matter of personal preference, and yes, both can be manipulated in unison...one thing I've noticed here is that the "CPU Voltage" settings seem to allow for less variance in the final vcore setting, keeping it very close to the specified voltage at all times, whereas increasing via the "CPU VID" option lets the voltage decrease a bit from the specified value when the system is not under load) and try again (and keep repeating until you have given the CPU as much voltage as you are comfortable with and the system can no longer be made stable), or return to you last stable setting and let it boot. Once you have done this, use your benchmarking and stress testing software to make sure you really are stable at your settings. If the system crashes or the test reports errors, you will either need to raise the voltage a little, or lower the FSB a little (this is where ClockGen can be a big timesaver). While some people swear by Prime95, my opinion is that if you can get through the largest SuperPi test without any errors, your overclock is stable. Monitor your temps while you do this. If you notice that the CPU temperature is getting above 60 degrees, you are running a bit too hot. Generally speaking, about 55 should be considered the threshold of safety here. If you're running hot, you can either decrease the voltage and FSB settings, or get a better cooling solution. Once you have determined that your setting is stable and not overheating your CPU, record your core speed (not your FSB speed, the total CPU speed) and voltage settings for later. You should probably be shooting for a target clock speed of around 2.4 GHz, or more if you have good cooling, or if you are interested in doing a "safe" overclock, just shoot for as high as you can get without raising the voltage.
Memory Speed - Now that you know your CPU's limits, it's time to work on the RAM. First restore your FSB to 200 MHz and your CPU voltage to its default, and specify a CPU multiplier of 6x to make sure that the CPU will not be stressed as your raise the FSB. Go to your RAM page, and manually specify whatever timings are appropriate to your RAM modules. Also be sure to set "1T/2T Memory Timing" to 1T (set the "... Mode" setting to Manual to make the RAM settings editable). Leave the rest of the settings alone, except for the "Memclock Index Value". Here, you have a choice to make. If you have high quality RAM, or your target CPU speed is not too high (like < 2.3 GHz), you can try to run your RAM synchronously, which will give you somewhat better latency. If this is the case, select an index value of 200 MHz (note that on the Neo4, when you select a memclock index what you are really specifying in the ratio at which the RAM operates relative to the FSB...the memclock index option is basically just obscuring this setting. To calculate your ratio, divide whatever the index value is by 200, so an index of 200 MHz is a 1:1 ratio, an index of 150 MHz is a 3:4 ratio, and so on). If your RAM is not of very high quality (for example, it's only rated as PC3200), or your target CPU speed is high, you will likely need to run the RAM asynchronously, so select the next highest index value of 180 MHz. This will let you get slightly higher RAM clock speeds, at the cost of a little bit of added latency (the performance hit isn't much...you'll be much faster running asynch at 2.4 GHz than synch at 2.2 GHz). Now you do the same thing that you did with the CPU, gradually increasing the FSB (you might want to use smaller increments this time though) until the system will no longer boot (remember again to decrease the HTT multiplier if necessary), and then returning to your last stable setting (or increasing the voltage and repeating) and booting to Windows and running stability tests. You do not need to monitor your temps while doing the RAM tests (unless you want to). Generally I find that Sandra's "Cache and Memory..." benchmark works well for detecting memory instability, and you can also use SuperPi, Prime95, or Memtest86 as well. Once you have tested stable, record your memory clock speed (use the formula: memory speed = FSB speed * memclock index value / 200) and voltage and reboot to the BIOS settings menu. Note that while you may be able to attain a higher memory clock speed by selecting a higher CAS latency, it is not generally advisible to do so, as from what I've seen, although memory bandwidth remains about the same as CAS increases (as far as Sandra is concerned anyways), the lower latency provided by CAS2 improves the system score by 5% in PCMark 04, and given that RAM performance scales pretty much linearly relative to the clock speed, unless running at CL2.5 lets you get *at least* 10 to 15 MHz higher than at CL2, it is not worth it overall.
Run the Numbers - Believe it or not the performance of the Neo4 system is dictacted pretty much entirely by the core and memory clock speeds (given identical memory timing settings). The only other real factor is whether the RAM is run synchronously or not, which you just decided in the above step, so all that's left to do now is find the combination of memclock index, FSB, and CPU multiplier that allow you to get as clost to both your target core and memory speeds as possible. If you are running synchronously, your task is simple, just keep your memclock index of 200 MHz, specify your target FSB speed, and your default CPU multiplier (unless your RAM is so good that the CPU is not stable at the default multiplier and the RAM's top FSB speed, in which case drop the multiplier accordingly). If running the RAM asynchronously your task is a bit more difficult (having a calculator for this part will help), basically you have to go through the list of memory dividers (memclock indexes), and for each one calculate the ratio of memclock index / 200, and then divide your target memory clock speed by that ratio to get the FSB needed to attain your target memory speed (for example, if the target is 230 MHz, for a memclock index of 150 we get a ratio of 0.75, and 230 / 0.75 = 307 MHz, so running the RAM at 230 MHz with an index of 150 MHz requires a FSB setting of 307 MHz...pretty good if your target clockspeed is 2.45 GHz, as selecting an 8x multiplier will pretty much hit this exactly), and then go through the available *whole* CPU multipliers (I've heard that the half-multipliers should be avoided, as they cause the memory to get clocked incorrectly) and see if any multiplier times the FSB you calculated hits (or comes reasonably close to hitting) your target CPU speed. Go through all of them until you get an exact (or very close) match, and pick whichever one ends up matching most closely. Note that there is no benefit in this case to a higher FSB speed configuration over a lower FSB speed configuration, provided that both produce the same core and memory clock values, so you should not favor configurations with needlessly high FSB settings unless they produce a better fit than the others. Apply whichever settings are closest, and then apply the appropriate CPU and memory voltage settings that you got from the previous steps. Also apply whichever HTT multiplier will put you closest to 1000 MHz without going over 1100 MHz. After this, your system should be ready to boot, overclocked and stable. Be sure to do additional benchmarking and stress testing to make sure that you really are stable (if you saved your scores at the beginning, compare them to your scores now and marvel at the improvement...and post the results for people to see), and be sure to monitor your temps for a bit to make sure your cooling is working adequately.
Post Overclock Overclocking:
There's not a whole lot to do now, but if you want to try to tweak your memory timings to get a little bit of extra performance, now is the time to do it...just remember to record your stable overclock settings somewhere (*not* on the computer) in case the tweaking forces a CMOS reset and you lose all your settings, and enjoy. Also you can overclock whatever video card you have, a process that's much easier and faster than overclocking your CPU/RAM/FSB.
In Closing:
I hope someone out there finds this useful, given how long it took to write up. Maybe I'll get lucky and this will end up as a sticky...we'll see. And just to start things off, here are my benchmark scores, at stock and at the overclock described in my sig:
Stock:
3dMark05 = 3141
PCMark04 = 3589
Overclocked:
3dMark05 = 3704
PCMark = 4805

Just started ocing the system, I'm new at this so these are where my system stands and the results
--------[ EVEREST Home Edition (c) 2003-2005 Lavalys, Inc. ]------------------------------------------------------------
Version EVEREST v2.20.405
Homepage http://www.lavalys.com/
Report Type Report Wizard
Computer HOWARD-4B304E62
Generator Howard
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition 5.1.2600 (WinXP Retail)
Date 2005-09-16
Time 16:14
--------[ Overclock ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU Properties:
CPU Type AMD Athlon 64
CPU Alias Venice S939
CPU Stepping DH-E3
CPUID CPU Name AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+
CPUID Revision 00020FF0h
CPU Speed:
CPU Clock 2456.56 MHz
CPU Multiplier 9.0x
CPU FSB 272.95 MHz (original: 200 MHz, overclock: 36%)
Memory Bus 204.71 MHz
CPU Cache:
L1 Code Cache 64 KB (Parity)
L1 Data Cache 64 KB (ECC)
L2 Cache 512 KB (On-Die, ECC, Full-Speed)
Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 03/15/2005-MS-7100-6A61FM4BC-00
Motherboard Name MSI K8N Diamond / K8N SLI Platinum (MS-7100) (3 PCI, 2 PCI-E x16, 4 DDR DIMM, Audio, Gigabit LAN, IEEE-1394)
Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset nVIDIA nForce4 SLI, AMD Hammer
Memory Timings 2-4-4-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
Command Rate (CR) 1T
SPD Memory Modules:
DIMM1: GeIL CL25-4-4DDR 500 512 MB PC4000 DDR SDRAM (2.5-5-5-9 @ 250 MHz) (2.0-5-5-9 @ 232 MHz)
DIMM2: GeIL CL25-4-4DDR 500 512 MB PC4000 DDR SDRAM (2.5-5-5-9 @ 250 MHz) (2.0-5-5-9 @ 232 MHz)
BIOS Properties:
System BIOS Date 03/15/05
Video BIOS Date 06/27/05
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message W7100NZ1 V9.0 031505 14:17:53
DMI BIOS Version 6.00 PG
Graphics Processor Properties:
Video Adapter nVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT PCI-E
GPU Code Name NV43GT (PCI Express x16 10DE / 0140, Rev A2)
GPU Clock 299 MHz
Memory Clock 522 MHz
--------[ Power Management ]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power Management Properties:
Current Power Source AC Line
Battery Status No Battery
Full Battery Lifetime Unknown
Remaining Battery Lifetime Unknown
--------[ Sensor ]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type Winbond W83627THF (ISA 290h)
GPU Sensor Type Driver (NV-DRV)
Motherboard Name MSI MS-7046 / 7100 / 7125
Temperatures:
Motherboard 32 °C (90 °F)
CPU 35 °C (95 °F)
GPU1: GPU 56 °C (133 °F)
GPU2: GPU 50 °C (122 °F)
Cooling Fans:
CPU 3444 RPM
System 2637 RPM
North Bridge 7337 RPM
Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.38 V
+3.3 V 3.34 V
+5 V 5.08 V
+12 V 12.04 V
+5 V Standby 5.17 V
VBAT Battery 3.10 V
Debug Info F 40 31 17
Debug Info T 32 35 157
Debug Info V 56 D1 C6 BD 1C 14 34 (01)
--------[ Debug - PCI ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benchmarking PCMARK04/score:4684 3DMARK03/score:15075
got any suggestions, Im just trying to learn how to do this, any help would be greatly appreciated

RAM issues regarding CPU + Mobo & OC'ing

edited from different thread
Hi there,
I've been having problems with my RAM, that is its running at 333mhz/freq = 157 etc.. I'll list my old system as well as my new one which will help explain my confusion....hopefully....
My new system is thus:
-MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
-BFG 7800GTX
-AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (Newcastle core default settings/2.2ghz)
-2 GB DDR-400 3200 (3 x 512mb chips are Kingmax, 1 x 512mb chip is Generic....I have realised they are different timings using CPU-Z, i.e. Generic has different timings too the Kingmax chips)
-Super flower 500w PSU
-Thermaltake Big Water cooling kit (CPU)
-Western Digital 300GB SATA HDD
-And old Seagate barracuda 40GB HDD
-Windows XP SP2
I have been told by the Moderator "Tiresmoke" to include more information, is it OK to posts links to each product?
My old system is thus:
-MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum
-AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (Newcastle core default settings/2.2ghz)
-GameCube X800XT-PE
-(same RAM as above)
-X-Connect 500w PSU
-Thermaltake Big Water cooling kit (CPU) (same as above)
-Western Digital 300GB SATA HDD (same as above)
-And old Seagate barracuda 40GB HDD (same as above)
-Windows XP SP2 (same as above)
So here is whats happening...
My old system when it first got put together, the RAM ran at 333mhz instead of 400mhz...however, I took my PC out to work so a mate of mine could help me out. Anyway, from memory I think he did a BIOS update, but whatever he did....when the PC booted up...the freq read as 200 and the RAM of course speed up to 400mhz...and I could tell in games like FarCry that there was a big difference. Plus CPU-Z showed me the difference...
But I've been reading everywhere....that 4 x 512mb chips will not allow 400mhz speeds....I noticed all my RAM chips are double sided
Anyway, my question is...how do I now (with my new system) do what my mate did? Is it because he say....enabled manual instead of auto in the DRAM config?......I also tried enabling manual mode with only 1GB of memory in dual channel mode, which did change the freq to 200mhz, giving the memory a speed of 400mhz, but I did not notice a considerable performace gain (using 3DMark05)
I'm also guessing I really need to tighten my memory timings, however I'm very new to that kind of thing, I have read many articles about overclocking (which I realise I have to do due to the 7800GTX), and Im still not comfortable about doing it until I find an article or guide that is specific with overclocking for the motherboard I have, and Im guessing for the CPU and RAM would help also.
Or....did he turn on D.O.T. which I believe overclocks the FSB, in-turn overclocking the RAM freq?
If I'm way off....please tell me so...because I dont have a real idea! But I would like to thank any and all help, although I cant offer you gold and silver, I do appreciate the time you have taken to help me out.
Regarding what Blackngold said in the other thread, I will try changing 1T to 2T to see if that helps, it may already be 2T but I will check, thank you for your input.
Regarding what Jaybee said, if that is true that the Newcastle core cannot support 4 dimms...should I sell all 4x512mb sticks and instead get 2x1GB sticks?
I realise I need to really overclock my CPU to relieve the bottlenecking of the 7800GTX, so I'm asking for anyone who has prior experience with a similiar setup as mine, in general overclocking or knowledge of other overclocking guides to please help me out, I have tried to understand guides from other websites, but I'm still confused. Even if someone here is kind enough to go through step by step with me, I would really appreciate your help.
Thank you for your patience in reading my request, take care.

Quote
Ok...but the problem was increasing the FSB.....and as for increasing the memory, I realise I have to change it back to 200mhz, but Im getting to that part after I overclock the CPU, I guess thats how its suppost to go? According to the guide Im using anyway...I dont understand how you can test one of them at a time, seeing as increasing the FSB increases the RAM frequencing.
You are testing one at a time by lowering the memory to 100. Increasing the "FSB" will result in memory speed less the 200, we know the memory is good up to 200, so... This way you are pushing the CPU to it's limit but the memory is still running far less then what it can. In this example the CPU max speed is found then you bring up the memory like you said above.
Quote
Also, there would be no point in getting PC4000 RAM seeing as the Neo4 platinum only supports up to PC3200, plus I was thinking of getting OCZ 2GB (2x1GB Kit) EL DDR PC-3200 Dual Channel Platinum Kit (CL 2-3-2-5) anyway, looks like its good RAM.
That's just because there isn't an official PC4000 spec. It will run fine and can use it's potential in this board although if we can't get you higher then 225HTT(FSB) then PC4000 is overkill, as you wouldn't quite max out PC3700 right now. I've seen memory running at 350Mhz(700Mhz) in your board. That's like PC5600! Rule number one, don't believe MSI.
I like that OCZ kit you are talking about.

Overclocking the i7 920 on Eclipse to 3.2 ghz

I am trying to overclock my i7 920 to 3.2 ghz to match my 1600 DDR3 rams, I tried alot of settings but got nowhere. If anyone has successfully clocked such a simple setting could they post their BIOs settings please?
Also is it advicable to clock to 3.2 from 2.66 on stock fan with MSI eclipse mainboard?

I sure don't see one.. I have:
CPU specifications (sub menu with cpu info)
EIST = Auto (enable/disable)
C-State = DIS (en/dis)
base clock = 180 (goes to 400)
Turbo boost = DIS (when enabled adds 1 to the base clock mutli)
adjusted core freq = 3600 (shows final cpu freq)
Qpi config (sub menu, mine set to FULL SPEED and 4.800GT)
Memory-Z (sub menu, shows memory slot info, show only!)
Advance D-ram config (sub menu, hard set the timings here if you want, that's all)
Extreme memory profile = DIS (enable/disable) (not sure what this does)
Memory ratio = 4 (3 - 8)
adjusted d-ram freq = 1440 (this is the kicker, 1440 has my memory underclocked for it's rating, and it's STILL unstable with 6gb, so it's not the mem itself, it something else)
clockgen tuner (sub menu, has some cpu and dram skew setting adjustments, left at default)
adjust pci freq = 37.3 (auto, 37.3, 42)
adjust pci-e freq = 100 (steps in 1mhz incre)
auto disable DRAM/pci frequency = ENABLED (en/dis) this turns off the power to unused slots to lessen excess rf interference from them.
voltages
spread spectrum = DIS (en/dis)
EDIT: I think it's possible I might have a faulty power supply.. I guess? the DDR phase LEDs are off but the memory still works ok with smallish memory amounts... I would think the motherboard would let me know there was a real issue or something, but who knows..

Trying to overclock 1055T CPU...

I try to OC my CPU but here's the dilemma:
I only use DDR3-1333 Dual channel memory from OCZ (it's in a 2x2GB kit populating slots 1 and 2 on my 890fxa-gd70 mobo). When setting the multiplier on the RAM to ANYTHING above or BELOW 1/3.33, I get errors when running prime95 instantly. In my experience (please, tell me if I'm WRONG) the AMD motherboards don't like increased or decreased RAM multipliers being edited from the setting listed above. Are there any settings I can toggle or tinker around with in my motherboard's BIOS that would stabilize the multiplier so that I can drop the multi and keep the DRAM speeds closer to spec? If prime95 fails instantly on all threads, but at stock is fine with all the same hardware in the computer, all I can blame it on is the RAM multiplier. Any advice you folks can share so that I can get this proc to 4.0 ghz? I am still waiting on my g.skill ddr3-1800 sticks to come back from RMA.

After realizing something.. this CPU batch can't handle high NB frequencies. After dropping the multi to x6 and 286 being the current FSB, this processor is chomping on numbers like a champ. Anything over 2Ghz on the HT link or NB really screwed things up for me. Weird thing though.. after changing the voltages to 1.4V, the CPU voltage according to CPU-Z state it fluctuates to 1.42V even. I know the maximum is 1.475 for this chip but I would like to keep temps as low as possible to keep this overclock. The RAm being 1333mhz ddr3 dual channel modules (2x2GB), it's actually able to hold 1525 (286x1:2.66) mhz ddr3 quite nicely at stock volts. The ht link and NB freq is at 1716 mhz. The batch I have is 1030FPMW.

MOVED: Trying to overclock 1055T CPU...

This topic has been moved to Overclockers & Modding Corner.
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=145752.0

After realizing something.. this CPU batch can't handle high NB frequencies. After dropping the multi to x6 and 286 being the current FSB, this processor is chomping on numbers like a champ. Anything over 2Ghz on the HT link or NB really screwed things up for me. Weird thing though.. after changing the voltages to 1.4V, the CPU voltage according to CPU-Z state it fluctuates to 1.42V even. I know the maximum is 1.475 for this chip but I would like to keep temps as low as possible to keep this overclock. The RAm being 1333mhz ddr3 dual channel modules (2x2GB), it's actually able to hold 1525 (286x1:2.66) mhz ddr3 quite nicely at stock volts. The ht link and NB freq is at 1716 mhz. The batch I have is 1030FPMW.

8500 RAM but no phenom...

hey,
Ok i'm a newbie and it shows - i underspent on the psu (another issue in another thread!) and i overspent on ram by buying some Cosair Dominator Twin2X2048-8500 memory.... but i don't have a Phenom cpu . I never realised the 5200 X2 doesn't use 1066mhz ram. My RAM is running at 800mhz.
Is this the fastest mem speed I can go with this cpu or is there some way that i can overclock this memory to run faster? if this has been discussed in length before then i apologise.
Thanks in advance,
Colly.
- MSI k9a2-cf bios rev 1.5
- Amd x2 5200XP
- Corsair Memory 2x1GB XMS2-8500 (not had a chance to run at full speed yet!)
- ATI Sapphire HD 2600 XT (256 GDDR4)
- 650W PSU
- Maxtor 320GB SATA
- Seagate 20GB IDE
- SATA DVDRW
- WINXP 32bit SP2

ok,
Currently my system's running at:
FSB = 200mhz, RAM freq = 371 (*2 = 742 ), cpu core = 2600, ram stats = 5-5-5-18 2T, CPU Multiplier = 13
Ok so 200 * 13 (multiplier) = 2600 MHZ CPU speed.
Finding the current MEM Speed: using a 1:2 cpu ram ratio = 1/2 multiplier (13) = 6.5, x64 doesn't like odd nbrs so rounded up = 7
RAM SPEED = 2600 / 7 = 371.4 * 2 for ddr = 742.8mhz
so instead of 800mhz i have 742 but i want 1066!
so 1066 / 2 = 533. 533 * 7 (half the mult) = 3731, but that's sightly too high
2600 again... 2600 / 533 = 4.8 which would be a multiplier of 10.
so 2600 / 10 = 260FSB?
So to get my RAM running at 1066, I would need to set FSB at 266 and the CPU miltiplier at 10?
Will I be able to achieve this? what about power and heat - will the northbridge fry up at this speed? I have a stock AMDcooler and a 120mm case fan.
do I need to change voltage or any memory latency? I noticed the HT link speed moving from 1Ghz to 1330 - is this safe?
I read somewhere that "There is no gain usually in having the memory run faster than the processor. 1:1 is good" - what does this mean?
Thanks - i hope this makes sense,
Colly

Is there any way to overclock an A64 by adjusting the multiplier?

Is there any way to overclock an A64 by adjusting the multiplier?
I have an Athlon64 3200+ (Socket 754) and a MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R.
Seems to be a sweet overclocker, but my RAM cannot run at much more than the normal 200 (400) MHz, so FSB overclocking is no good for me.
/Salmoneus

hmm the a64 is locked so you cannot use a cpu multipier to have only cpu go faster..
i oc with the fsb....but noticed that i may actually be over running my power, at high oc's(233) if i unplug at least 3 hard drives, and some fans it will run microsofts memmory tester...but not with them in.
you may be able to oc if you drop your mem speed down in bios to 333 or 200.
so when you oc the memm will clib from there...i have seen good results from that.
one person was able to catch my 232 results from dropping down to 200 mem speeds.

Overclocking decisions (Mainly RAM freq.)

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