Overrided Paragraph Styles: Three different states instead of logical two.

Hi there,
I am curious to find out why there are three states of paragraph style instead of two:
State 1: Clear paragraph style: Everything understandable. Style is applied to paragraph. No conflicts.
State 2: Paragraph with applied Paragraph Style has been infected by some additional changes. There is 2× "+" sign beside name of the Style and beside name of Style in the header of the Paragraph Styles Palette. All clear to me so far.
State 3: Paragraph with applied Paragraph Style has been infected by some additional changes. There is just 1× "+" in the header of the Paragraph Styles Palette.Confusion.
So my question is: What difference is between States 2 and 3?
Thank you in advance!

You are right, it is not. But with trying around I detected another bug with fonts and styles. Which I have reported.
@ChristianAaltonen
Can you provide us a link to such a document, so we can investigate it?
Thanks
Willi

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Multiple Paragraph Styles / "Add-On" Styles

Not exactly sure how to clearly describe what I'm after but I'd love to see if Adobe could incorporate this feature.
I'd love to have an "add on" style where I could apply a paragraph style and any number of "add on" paragraph styles to it.
For example, say I have three different styles and I need to have the same styles but with a different size. That would require me creating six styles. I'd love to be able to set a style and then an "add on style" for the size, which would reduce the number of styles I had to define, so in this case, the three styles and a fourth "add on style" for the size.
In some cases like the one above I can use character styles but in a specific document I'm after I have several different paragraph styles requiring different "space after" amounts and I have to define many styles than I'd ideally like. Also it would be useful to be able to just click into the paragraph and add "add-on" styles to it.
Your thoughts?
R

For me more important would be the user defined grid unit which could be used as the unit in defining interline, space before, space after etc.
For example You have the layout based on interline baseline grid equal to 14 pt. So every space before, space after etc. you define as the part of you grid, for example 14/2 pt or 14/3 pt ect.
When you decide to change inteline grid form 14 pt to 13.5 pt you must change every space after, and every interline etc. manually.
If you will have the a gid unit and ability to define interline and spacing as a part or as a multiplication of the grid unit it would be only one shot to change all layout.

Optical Margin Alignment in Paragraph Styles?

Hello,
I'm currently redesigning a newsletter for a company. I have been setting up various Paragraph Styles for different areas of text. Is there any way that I can use the Optical Margin Alignment tool in a Paragraph Style so that all text applied to that style uses the same Optical Margin Alignment setting? I'd rather not have to manually select every single piece of text and set it that way.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Laurence

Hi Steve,
Yes, I thought that would be the case. I've read everywhere that it can only be "ignored" in Paragraph Styles. I'm still learning InDesign in some respect, so could you explain to me what you mean when you say "at the level of a story"?
Also, is there any rule of thumb for using the Optical Margin Alignment with text? Or is it a simple case of trial and error until you get good results?

I'm having problems with paragraph style. It remains last style even if I aplply basic paragraph style

Paragraph style is not working properly in either two licences if got for CC InDesign 2014.2
Styles do not apply correctly, it remains last style applied even if I aplply basic paragraph style.
Is anybody having the same problem? Do you have any explanation or solution for it? Is there any spanish chat or forum?
I appreciate your quick answer

There is a Spanish forum here: Foro en español. Is there a character style applied to the text?

Do paragraph style overrides work differently in CS3 vs CS4?

Hi All-
I’m in the process of moving a workflow from CS3 to CS4, and have run into an unexpected problem. In the existing CS3 workflow, we receive copyedited text with Word paragraph styles applied, then import this text into our InDesign template. This template has all the same paragraph style names as the Word file, so we tell InDesign to use the InDesign style definitions in the Import options. So, for instance, the Word style for Para_Text is Times New Roman 12pt, and the InDesign style for Para_Text is Helvetica Neue 8pt, and on Import InDesign automatically changes it to Helvetica Neue 8pt. This is as we want it.
Things fall apart, however, when we import the same text into the same template in InDesign CS4. It still applies the InDesign style definition, but has additional overrides to make it look like the Word style definition. So, it recognizes that the underlying paragraph style should be Helvetica Neue 8pt, but it then preserves Times New Roman 12pt as an override. If I select the text and do Clear Overrides, it’ll revert to the Helvetica Neue 8pt we want it in, but for other reasons that solution is less than ideal.
I think I can come up with a rather kludgy way around this, but I’m trying to understand exactly why we’re getting the different behavior in CS4. It seems like paragraph style conflicts are being handled in a different way in CS3 than CS4 – in CS3, if the InDesign paragraph style specifically spelled out a font, that would dominate on import; now, in CS4, it’s allowing the Word paragraph style to seep through as an override. Any thoughts as to why this is happening?
Thanks,
-Nate

Hi Chris.
Good news. I cant tell you how happy i am for all your help ;-) and you other guys.
The latest Eizo 5.2.1 software fixed the problem on all 3 Eizo monitors.. Weeee
I'm back to normal.
Now i just have another damn problem started not long ago ;(
My Photoshop CS3 and CS4 keeps crashing on me after a wile of work ???
I tried everything. Deleted preffs etc. etc.
It have been working for long long time but suddenly it keeps crashing all the time.
I tried to remove some new plug-ins, but it was not that.
Only thing i did also was to install new ram.
Upgraded from 10GB to 14GB in all our Mac Pro.
So after i tried to switch the ram around to check if some was bad.
Also run some memory software but everything came out right.
So now the only thing left is that Photoshop dosent like ram between 14GB & 16GB.
Under was fine and i never tried over 16 gigs.. weird
Any ide what could corse this ?

Changes to [No Paragraph Style] causing unwanted style overrides

Hi fellow InDesigners
I'm using InDesign CS6. I'm working with long documents that were originally created in previous versions (CS4 and possibly earlier). My standard workflow for these jobs is to do the bulk of the text formatting in a newly created, bare-bones, single column document. First, I load the paragraph and character styles from the template, and when I'm done I copy and paste the formatted text back into the template for final layout and typesetting. This used to work fine in CS4, but in CS6, all my paragraphs show the plus sign in the Paragraph Styles panel, indicating that they have been overridden. They should be identical, since I imported the styles from one file to the other. The overrides include drop cap alignment, and even more obscure things like 'IdeoSpaceBehavior' and 'Diacritic Positioning'.
It seems likely to me that this problem is due to Adobe having changed the definition of the mysteriously ubiquitous '[No Paragraph Style]' style between versions. The template file has carried over the definition from CS4, but the newly created working files have the new definition, and since [No Paragraph Style] is not included when importing styles from one document to another, the inconsistency remains. Copying and pasting text with no overrides in one document, shows overrides in the other.
So the simplest solution I can think of, would be to change the [No Paragraph Style] in the template to match the definition of new CS6 documents. Is this even possible? My Googling thus far suggests that [No Paragraph Style] is pretty much untouchable.
Is there nothing for it but to create the template files again as new documents in CS6?

No worries Michael. Yes, I vaguely remember the change too.
My understanding is, [No Paragraph Style] is very much a style—a paradoxically named style to be sure, but a style nonetheless. Check out the [Basic Paragraph] style definition by double clicking on it in the Paragraph Styles panel. It's style definition is: '[No Paragraph Style] + next: [Same style]'. That's it. Minion Pro 12 point, with auto leading—and every other conceivable paragraph attribute—all handled by [No Paragraph Style]. Adobe needed some defaults, and that's what [No Paragraph Style] is—just a default style. You can never escape it either, since every style, no matter what it's based on, has [No Paragraph Style] as its most senior ancestor.
So that's essentially my problem. Adobe has, in their wisdom, changed the [No Paragraph Style] style between versions, so that a document originally created in an earlier version and a document created in CS6 have different [No Paragraph Style] settings. I'm pretty confident this is the cause of my problems.
Lots of my paragraph styles inherit from other styles. Why would I not want that? My custom 'Paragraph' style has lots of other styles based on it—from typesetting variations, to quotes, lists, etc. But the 'Paragraph' style itself is based on [No Paragraph Style]. As I said, you can't really escape [No Paragraph Style].

Problem with paragraph style overrides and character formatting

I've had this problem for a long time, and sometimes it resolves itself, sometimes it doesn't. Finally I'm begging for help.
I am typesetting academic articles into a journal. We use endnotes. The endnotes have both italic and regular formatting--italics for book and journal titles, and foreign phrases.
Sometimes when I place the text, the formatting reverts to whatever it was in Word. To try to fix that, I've begun stripping the Word formatting from the original document, making everything "Courier New" and just importing it like that. I figured this would clear a lot of the problems I've had with fiddly formatting issues.
I was mistaken.
Here is what happens:
When I place the document it comes up in the original Courier New font, with italics and other formatting intact. If I click "article style" which is the main article paragraph style format, normally it changes. but if I right click and select "apply article style" it is more likely to change the paragraph to the proper style, with italics and other formatting still intact.
But when it gets to endnotes, I'm sort of screwed.
My endnotes style is a bulletted style, so that I can have the endnote numbers consistent. but this seems to screw all the style formatting.
Here is what I do:
With the cursor in endnote text, I click "bulleted endnote style". The character format remains the same, with a + beside the style. The endnote number format is different, however. If I click "clear overrides" it does in fact change to the proper formatting, but it strips any italics or other character in the text. This is frustrating because many of these endnotes have lots of italicized journal and book titles, and it takes a long time to figure out which ones I need to reitalicize manually.
I have tried to use the "customize style import>Style mapping" but it has not fixed anything.
Please help me figure out how to make these transitions more smoothly. I am open to suggestions both on how to make the changes once the document is placed in the Indesign file, and also making modifications to formats in the native Word file so that I don't have these problems.
Thanks
Dan

Sorry, that last message wasn't supposed to send (if that's not obvious!). I was writing it and got interrupted. Damn iphone.
I know why there are two numbers. This is not an issue. What I didn't finish writing was that, the note number before i bullet it is a different font/ format. Again, not a problem. Here is something interesting, though. If I delete that original number by placing the cursor in the middle of it (say a between the 4 and 2 of 42) then delete everything by Shift+arrow forward, press delete then delete the rest of the unnecessary characters, THEN apply the style formatting, it works just fine. Is it something to do with the character codes of those original note numbers?
Word drops in so many hidden codes that it screws everything up!

Make paragraph style not override character style?

Hi.
Is there any way to make a paragraph style NOT override a character style?
For example, I write a lot of scientific reports in Pages and then I use subscript and superscript often and so I have made a character style for that. But if I want to perhaps change the spacing between paragraphs in my body style. I select a paragraph, change the settings that I want and then I right click on the paragraph style and choose "redefine style from selection". Then I select all of that style and choose "revert to defined style" to get the updated paragraph spacing. But what this does is that it overrides all of the character styles so that everything in sub/superscript, bold, italic etc get back to the style. This is really bugging me out.
For the character styles you can select what attributes you want them to affect, is there any way to do this with paragraph styles as well? Or maybe some of you have got a good way to make it work.
Thanks in advance.

When you redefine the paragraph style, all paragraphs using that style will display the new style properties, unless you've overriden them. Presumably this is why you choose "revert to defined style", so that other paragraphs that you've stylistically modified take on the proper paragraph style properties. If not, why revert at all?
Instead of using revert, why not re-apply the paragraph style (just click on the selected style in the drawer, or pick the selected item from the pop-up menu). It will discard your unwanted paragraph style overrides, and preserve the character styles.

How do I prevent unwanted paragraph style overrides when exporting an epub

I am having trouble controlling the size of a logo in an e-pub. Actually, it's only a problem with Amazon's Kindle which seems to insist on enlarging the image to the full screen width. So, I need a robust command in my CSS to override Kindle's preference. Seems easy. I placed the logo into my In Design layout in a picture box with the object style "frontmatterlogo" which should export into a div of the same name. Which it does. So far so good. However, In Design insists on creating a paragraph style override (see bold in the code below) which disregards the frontmatterlogo settings I've written in to my CSS in favour of it's own image settings which correspond to the size of the placed image. Currently, I've just put together a hacked solution by writing a class for para-style-override into my CSS. It's an inelegant solution but seems to work for all the other e-readers. But, as mentioned, it doesn't work on the Kindle.
Anyone have any idea what is causing these overrides and how I might prevent them so my div class can take over?
Alan
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 //EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
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        <link href="template.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
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            <div class="frontmatterlogo">
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            </div>
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Thanks for getting back so quickly, Bob.
I'm using Version 5.5. I have basically the same problem when the object is anchored. In the case below, I created a new paragraph style for the line on which the logo would be anchored, also mapping to the frontmatterlogo entry in my CSS. This time, no paragraph-style-override is added but In Design still adds it's own image dimensions corresponding to the size at which the image was placed in the layout. This overrides the settings in my CSS and, I suspect, might be what's allowing the Kindle settings to take over as well. I had kind of resigned myself to fixing this in the code on a book by book basis, which is fine if the only images the book contains is a cover and a title page logo. But I'm worried about what happens when I have to create an e-pub from a photo-heavy book. You can see how it would be ideal to create a few specific object styles for different image situations in In Design and have them map them to specific div styles in my CSS. Basically it's a workflow issue. This would minimize the amount of after-the-fact coding our already swamped designers would have to do.
It's so obvious in the code where the problem lies, and so I just have a feeling that there may be a simple fix. If only I knew why In Design felt obliged to specify the image size.
A.
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 //EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
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        <title>Titlepage2-1.html</title>
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    <body>
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                <h1 class="fulltitle">Far North</h1>
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Different paragraph styles within a text thread

Does anybody know if it's possible to apply a different paragraph style to each text box in a text thread? I have three boxes: the first and the last have a small font and I'd like the middle one to have a larger font size.
If it's not possible, is there an alternative way to do this?
Thanks,
Nacho

Offhand i'd say that what Nacho wants to do will entail having separate text boxes...
Seems to me that what he's doing is having the text flow from one box to another (column?). Obviously, changing / editing content will cause the text to shift its position.
Nacho, i think you'll have to do one of the following:
1/ Manually adjust the font style for the box you want each time you mke a correction
or
2/ Set up different, independent boxes (text areas) and style the box the way you want. Obviously changing text will mean changes in the area used by that box...
Maybe someone else here can help out with a better suggestion...

How to? change to different paragraph style only after column/frame break

I'm all over paragraph styles and next styles option, all good, sweet. Love em but...
But when I'm flowing in a long document with multiple text frames on different pages I would like the first paragraph in each of those text frames to be paragraphy style A, then using next styles let it follow on through B, C, etc, till then next time it see's a column/page/frame break character then go back to heading style A.
I can't find a way to do this for love nor money.
I've used objecy styles with paragraphy styles and next style turned on but this only seams to work on the first text box not the remaining text boxes that have flowed on text.
HELP!!!!

Eugene Tyson wrote:
For Paragraph Style A go to the Keep Options in the style, and select to Start on Next Page or Next Column or Next Frame - whichever suits.
Then it automagically does it
If the content being flowed-in is correctly tagged with style names, then this would work.
However, I believe the OP wants any paragraph that follows a flow break to be tagged with a specific style. If this is correct, either a script or a plug-in is probably necessary. in-tools.com has some terrific commercial composition tool products; perhaps one can do at least the first step - assigning a style to a paragraph that follows a break.
In InDesign, assigning specific styles to the subsequent paragraphs based on the Next Style property, requires selecting the paragraphs to be assigned. I'm not sure if there's a plug-in or script that can use the break to trigger the Apply Next Style feature.
Then, of course, is the question of how should this automation work if editing causes text to reflow across breaks. It's possible this could become the "yo-yo" effect that happens when more consecutive paragraphs than can fit in a text container are tagged with the keep options next and previous.
HTH
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
Message was edited by: peter at knowhowpro

[win][js][cs4]find/change paragraph styles without losing local overrides

Hi guys i need a little help here.
I created a javascript which will find and replace doc file paragraph styles with indesign paragraph styles. everything works fine but the problem is that when it applies the paragraph styles it loses all local overrides. i tried:
changetext(false);
but its not working is there some kind of conditional parameter that i can put in the changetext() function so that it wont clear local overrides?
Thanks.
CharlesD

Thanks Kasyan. You're always there to save my day. Thank you very much...
I slightly modify the script to go through all my paragraph styles that need to be replaced coz there are hundreds of them. Im not sure though if this is the best or is there any faster way to do this:
replace("T1", "Text", "T1");
replace("T", "Text", "T");
replace("1", "Heads", "1");
replace("2", "Heads", "2");
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Can I clear all paragraph style overrides at once?

Sometimes when I change a paragraph style, the places where I've applied it don't conform. Why is this?
I end up having to go through the whole document and hitting "clear overrides." Is there an easier way?
Thank you!

Local formatting always trumps a style.
Try using Find/Change, though, searching for the style and replacing with the same style. That might do it.

Howto always clear paragraph style overrides?

Using Indesign Cs5.
I'm going to import loads of incopy-text that has already ben placed on other layouts. The problem is that these texts contains some paragraph styles overrides that I do not want to include in the new document.
Question: is there some way to tell indesign to automatically clear paragraph style overrides?

Reading through that article, it appears that added styles will be ignored with certain exceptions that in turn are overrideable in ID. But I am working in the blind here.
I know there are GREP routines you can use to set chosen paragraph styles to any other and it is fast to do. Search the forum for these.
Because I work by myself and don't receive anything but funky Word or text documents that I fully set in ID, I haven't faced what you are.
Hopefully someone who does use IC will come along to actually help you.
Mike

Overrided Paragraph Styles: Three different states instead of logical two.

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