P67A C45 problem

When I turn off the pc from scratch for about 5 seconds and then
 part correctly, when I do start working properly,
  I have not activated any overclocking,
  Control data center:
  bios version 1.18
 intel i5-2500 3.30 GHz
  cores / threads 4/4
  Core Speed ​​1600 MHz
  ratio x16
  100.0 MHz base clock
  Memory Kingston DDR3-1333 (667MHz)
 overclocking
 PLL voltage override Cars
  2048 MB Kingston PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM x4 9905458
  Ati radeon HD6850 (barts pro)
  OCZ 120GB disk boot-agility3
  ST31500341AS 1500GB disk data
  OS Win 7 Pro 32
  750 Watt power supply corsair
  I also tried to replace the video card with a low
  consumption, but the problem there is always

A few suggestions here.
1) Test booting with 1 piece of RAM.
2) Remove processor and check for bent pins / wires.
3) Test with just one HDD.

Similar Messages

  • P67A-C45 problems - startup, closure freez; no clear reason

    Hello 
    I would like to ask you for help with identifying problem which most certainly concerns my motherboard, until proven not guilty
    What is the problem: since about 1 month I was facing a problem with system startup - it usually hung up after typing in password on logon screen. It would freez randomly on "Welcome!" screen or desktop loading only black screen and cursor with no response to keyboard keys. System loaded in safemode with no problem. Sometimes, also randomly, it would also start up in normal mode after few hard restarts or restart from safe mode. After some community forums research the first suspect was the graphic card. Reinstalling the drivers, some test and a little chat with tech service however made me thinking it is the wrong direction. Gigabyte TS [they are my GPU makers] pointed at motherboard as a very probable cause if there is everything right with system and software.
    Despite failing to find the reason form software side I have backed up my data, zeroed the HDD and repartitioned it [with Pared Magic], than installed system again [Win 7 HP - full PC specification at the end of the post]. I have also performed RAM tests with Memtest which came up positive - no errors after 10 cycles. Also checked HDD itself with Saget tool if there is something wrong with it - everything came up to be in order.
    After the system re-installation [without any updates and programs] everything loaded well however I had another mystery - while waiting for reboot the system hang up on closure! Keyboard went off-line [lights turned down] and on the screen I just saw freezed "Shutting down..." . After hard restart system loaded correctly. I've installed updates via MSI Live Update 5, all necessary drivers and programs and rebooted the system. Freezed at shutting down again and another curious thing - after hard restart i saw a black screen with a "9C" code at the bottom right corner of my screen [everything lunched usually after "A3" code appeared there]. Few hard restarts - the same. Consternation. Hard shutdown. After few minutes I've hit the power button again and it magically started. I am very fascinated with this problem and I would like one more time ask you for your ideas on this issue. I am not too hasty to hand my pc for service as I don't swim in money so if i can resolve it at home with your help I would be delighted to do so
    My PC hardware spec: [some names are translated by me form Polish so I apologize if there is something translated too directly if you know what I mean ]. Feel free to ask for any additional information. Thank you in advance for any given feedback! [and sorry for any critical language errors]
    OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit [latest updates, critical and optional by the time 13.02.2013 installed]
    CPU:              Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz   
    Motherboard:    MSI P67A-C45 (MS-7673)
    BIOS:              BIOS Date: 08/01/12 15:53:14 Ver: 04.06.04   
    GPU:              NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470   
    RAM:              8,00 GB   
    Default printer: Lexmark 5400 Series
    Advanced CPU info:
    Physical CPU:   1   
    Logic CPU:   4   
    Name:    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz   
    Decs:   Intel64 Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7   
    Manufacturer:   GenuineIntel   
    Frequency:   3292 MHz   
    Frequency of external clock:   100 MHz   
    CPU ID:   BFEBFBFF - 000206A7
    Advanced BIOS info:
    Name:   BIOS Date: 08/01/12 15:53:14 Ver: 04.06.04   
    Manufacturer:   American Megatrends Inc.   
    Version:   V1.19   
    Copyright:   ALASKA - 1072009   
    Date:   2012-08-01   
    Size:   8 192 KB
    Advanced GPU info:
    GPU name:   GeForce GTX 470   
    Chipsate name:   NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470   
    Video memory:   1 280,00 MB   
    Legality[?]:   NVIDIA   
    DAC type:   Integrated RAMDAC   
    Architecture:   VGA   
    Current resolution:   1024 x 768   
    Current color set:   32 bites   
    Refresh rate:   60 Hz      
    BIOS name:   Version 70.0.35.0.4   
    BIOS version:   Version 70.00.35.00.04    
    BIOS date:   10/18/10   
    Pixel Shader:   3.0   
    Vertex Shader:   3.0   
    WDDM: Yes   
    Installed drivers:   nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um   
    Driver date:   2012-12-29   
    Driver version:   9.18.13.1090   
    Name of INF file:   oem13.inf   
    Section of INF file: Section022

    Quote from: flobelix on 14-February-13, 01:42:13
    You could also say: "oh yes, of course I'm mixing ram. In fact I mixed two dual channel kits. I have no idea if that works as I'm stressing the dual channel controller to the max with four sticks and do not even use a matched kit"
    Sorry but Goodram does not make memory for Corsair, Patriot or Kingston. It amybe is a local ram maker but surely no manufaturer of high quality sticks.
    Well as mentioned in the first post I am not a professional and I can be mistaken however as I said later depending on info from diagnostic tools and fact that the issue occured long after RAM installation and fact that stick removal has no diagnostic value as pc is able to randomly start up and shut down properly I still ask for other probable solution.
    Moreover flobelix you need to understand that GoodRAM is a label of certified, biggest producer in middle and eastern Europe and a strategic partner of Toshiba and Samsung. If you are such a label orientated person that you consider. f.e. Corsair Kingstone or Patriot as only high quality producers (and they makeing their sticks in China or India ) just becouse the label than I would kindly ask you to abandon this thread becouse I have no goal in haveing an argument about ram producers and it gives no usefull feedback consideing probelm I have asked to help me deal with. Best wishes though and no offence .

  • MSI P67A-C45 problems after OC Genie in MSI Control Center

    Hi ,everyone! Yesterday i try press OC Genie button in MSI Control Center 2 and after reboot my computer hangs, video not initializing,
    i think motherboard working fine, but problems with BIOS. I tried clear cmos by pressing button on motherboard, but situation not changed.
    I,m also took two strips of memory from the motherboard, and boot, after it issued two beeps.
    My system configuration
    MSI P67A-C45
    BIOS 1.13
    i5 2500
    Samsung Original 1333 CL9 2 x 4GB
    WD Caviar Green 2TB
    Powercolor Radeon 6950
    Chieftec 600W
    I think MSI Contol Center OC Genie section have bugs!!!
    Please help!!!
    Thanks for reading.  Sorry for my English.

    I had similar problems. I resolved them removing all pci cards and battery also. Turn pc on without any cards on pci slots until windows boots.
    Don't forget to adjust your system time. When windows boot normally I shut down the computer and put all the cards on pci slots. That procedure resolve my problems.
    I suspect of the version of my bios. Recently I upgrade my bios version to the 1.E version avaiable on the MSI site.
    I hope that you can fix your problem.
    Sorry for my bad english. I'm portuguese

  • MOVED: MSI P67A-C45 problems after OC Genie in MSI Control Center

    This topic has been moved to Overclockers & Undervolting & Modding Corner.
    https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=154634.0

    I had similar problems. I resolved them removing all pci cards and battery also. Turn pc on without any cards on pci slots until windows boots.
    Don't forget to adjust your system time. When windows boot normally I shut down the computer and put all the cards on pci slots. That procedure resolve my problems.
    I suspect of the version of my bios. Recently I upgrade my bios version to the 1.E version avaiable on the MSI site.
    I hope that you can fix your problem.
    Sorry for my bad english. I'm portuguese

  • MSI P67A-C45 B3 Problems

    Hello,
    I recently bought a main board MSI P67A-C45 B3 from a shop in my country ( Romania ) and i had a problem with it as soon as it got home.
    I installed all the new components that i got, plugged all the devices, but my computer did not start. I pushed the power on button, but it only stayed on for like 2-3 seconds and then turned off, and it repeated this cycle without me having to push the power on button. I took all the components to the shop i bought them from, so they could tell me whats there to do with my new computer. After a couple of hours they called me and told me that the main board had one pin bent in the CPU slot. I don't think that i could have bent one pin, I've done this before in the past, and this never happened to me.
    What I'm really asking :
    Is it possible, out of 1155 pins , for only one pin to be bent when plugging the CPU in its slot ?
    And ,
    Can one bent pin be the cause of my computers problem ?
    Was i just scammed and put to pay another main board, or is it true what they are telling me ?
    Thanks

    Yes, just one bent pin can cause this, you can fix this probably though.
    *You can bend those pins by breathing on them too heavily (joke) don't feel like you are the only one to do this.
    Get a really bright light and a magnifying glass and find the pin and move it back into place with an eyeglass screw driver or other very small object.
    You also may be able to get msi to repair it for you.
    If you can get it fixed yourself, try MSI:
    >>How to contact MSI.<<

  • MSI P67A-C45 (B3) - any known problems?

    I was seriously considering an MSI board for my dads new £500 gaming PC but when I google MSI P67A-C45 (B3) google showed 5 or 6 links to this forum of problems and it put me off as a few off them were overheating issues..
    are there any known problems with this board? im worried I may regret choosing the cheaper board
    thanks

    Quote from: snadge on 25-June-11, 23:06:41
    I Was going to buy corsair 1600Mhz as the board supports that speed without overclocking does it not?
    Quote from: snadge on 25-June-11, 23:51:08
    yeah ive been told something similar eslewhere (sandyBridge only supports up to 1333) - but wont they run at 1333mhz anyway? if thats the max the chipset allows? MSI should put (OC) next too speeds above 1333Mhz so users are aware..
    I think we will just be getting 1333Mhz then
    See these two topics:
    https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=147704.0
    https://forum-en.msi.com/faq/article/ddr3-memory-standards-blurry-lines

  • Problem P67A-C45

    i've had this motherboard for a month now but i've been away for a few weeks, and now the motherboard is 'dead'
    I cant figgure out if it is the motherboard or the cpu that has crapped out
    Tested:
    - Powersupply - Working
    - Graphicscard - Working
    - RAM -> untested
    - CPU -> untested
    So i figgured that perhaps i should ask people with more experience.
    When i boot i get 2 High Hz beeps and another that is slightly higher after that i get 5 deeper beeps
    Is there a new Beep Error code for UEFI motherboards?
    And is the motherboard completely dead?
    Thx in advance
    MSI P67A-C45 B3 (Bios version known)
    Intel Core i5 2500 3.3GHz
    Corsair 2x2gb 1600MHz CMX4GX3M2A1600C9
    XFX Core Edition 550W 80+ Bronze
    Gigabyte GTX 560Ti OC GV-N560OC-1GI
    Western Digital 1Tb Black 7200RPM
    Samsung SH-S223C 22X DL

    any beeps normally is a good indication, shows that board is alive.
    can we know what components you use? read >>Posting Guide<<
    + have you done >>Clear CMOS Guide<< with power cord removed?

  • Too much Vdroop on P67A-C45 (B3)

    Hi, I have seen Vcore on another P67A-C45 B3 and it manages as my previous B2 (+0.008 on full) but mine is drooping more than 0.03v   
    CPU-Z shows 1.272 on idle and 1.24 on full (Prime95, can be higher using LinX).
    Otherwise, it needs a reboot to detect a Seagate 7200.11 500GB wich works perfectly in othre motherboards and I was having BSOD 124 on idle, I'm testing now last BIOS 1.I turbo ON, no crashes yet...
    ¿Any idea to fix the HDD detection? It look like an insurmountable compatibility problem :(
    ¿Can I do a RMA process to fix the Vdroop problem? I have never seen an Vdroop like this, even in most cheap motherboards.
    I'm setting in manual, dynamic is too high and MSI motherboards can adjust offset as other brands 
    ¿How about othre P67A-C45 B3, is normal this Vcore?
    Thanks guys.

    Heh, I use your avatar in other forums 
    Thanks for reply HU16E, I'll follow your tips.
    My system:
    Hyper 212+ (+2 Gentle Typhoon 1150, max. under 60º @4,4-4,7)
    2x2GB Kingston Value RAM 1333 CL9 1.5v @ 1600 (1333 when testing)
    7200.11 500GB 32MB (last firmware SD1A)
    OCZ Z-Series 550W
    i5 2500K
    HD 6850
    Marian Trace Alpha (sound card)
    Conceptronic C54Ri (wireless controller)
    I have read about similar problems with MSI motherboards, its not as simple as raise Vcore because I can pass 2h of Prime95 Custom (1792 min & max FFT, all the RAM & 1min per test. I dont know a better stability test, works better than LinX + AVX). If it can pass 2h torture test with 1.24, something is wrong crashing with 1.27 (IDLE). I have tested 1.27-1.24 for 4,2 (use to be @4,5) and a bit less Vcore for stock with older BIOS, still having problems. It looks like turbo works better, in fact I have read that here (this forum is much better than latin). I hope turbo + last BIOS will be fine 
    I don't want to set APS/Intel, it manages Vcore without Vdroop but using for stock (33+T, 1 volt in manual works fine) the voltaje needed for my actual frequencies, higher with OC & without adjustment (just a poor ON/OFF LLC wich isn't working with manual Vcore) 
    Thanks again, I'll pray 

  • P67a-C45 powers on for a few seconds then turns off

    got a core i7 2600 with this board, my problem is when i power on, the 4 blue leds on the mobo turns on, cpu fan spins up and 5 seconds later it goes off again and then turns on again and keeps repeating - no beep codes - mounted the mobo on a board to minimize potential shorting but same problem - switched power supplies and still the same - any ideas
    P67A-C45  - (cant get to bios to see)
    i7-2600K
    Corsair 4x4GB DDr3 1333
    Maxtor 1TB
    Intel x25M SSD 80GB
    OS Will be win 7 64b
    ATI brand Radion HD 5650
    power supply Corsair 600W

    Always best for initial first time startup, to do it with just one RAM stick in the primary blue dimm slot. A couple thoughts, first is use just the one RAM stick & load the OS & all the drivers, then add the other sticks. The other thought is to try each RAM stick individually in the primary slot to rule out a bad or failing stick.
    Quote
    I notice my graphics card is very hot
    That can't be a good thing.

  • P67A-C45 (B3) randomly not booting

    Hi, the problem is:
    When booting (both cold start and restart) my mobo randomly decides to boot properly or not to boot. I do not change any settings/hardware and it still occurs randomly.
    There are 4 scenarios that happen when I try to boot or reboot:
    1. Correct boot
    2. B4 at the right bottom of the screen, boots successfully after several seconds.
    3. 98 at the right bottom of the screen, lasts forever.
    4. Nothing on the screen
    Sometimes it takes 3 or 4 reboots to get to OS successfully.
    What I tried: restoring default settings, updating BIOS, removing all USB devices.
    The system is perfectly stable (stress tested) when it manages to boot so I doubt it's PSU fault.
    My hardware:
    P67A-C45 (B3)
    i5-2500K
    ASUS 6950 1GB DirectCu
    2x4 GB Corsair XMS3 1600MHz
    OCZ StealthXStream 600W.
    Help me guys, because I feel like playing a roulette when trying to turn my computer on.

    If not done so yet, disable EuP 2013. Try NovJoe's suggestion of using the one RAM stick in the primary blue dimm slot for testing. It may be good to test the 'each' stick individually in the primary slot. The latest beta BIOS can be found in Jack's thread, Reply #22; https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=145403.0
    Quote
    The system is perfectly stable (stress tested) when it manages to boot so I doubt it's PSU fault.
    The PSU is an inexpensive quad rail +12V, which can be part of the problem. A Corsair, like a TX650, single rail +12V (or other quality single rail) would be a much better choice to power the system. Please provide a screenshot of the CPUID's CPU-Z Memory & SPD tab. A hosting service like Photobucket is a good one.
    In regards to Reply #2, the first step is to get the system running stable in a stock/auto/default manner before venturing off into OC'ing & enabling OC Genie, etc.
    Quote
    cranked my 1.5 Snipers to 1.7 (again way to high, especially for stock 1866 sticks)....
    1866 is far from stock, 'rated' maybe, but not stock for the OP's platform. Doubtful they have true 1866 chips on them. RAM should be run at the Intel specifications for the Sandy Bridge CPU IMC of DDR3 1333, anything over that is out of specifications & is overclocking. There is a special section of the forum for those wanting to operate components outside of the stock/auto/default specifications.  
     

  • New P67A-C45 (B3) - Static/hissing noise almost in sync with HDD sound

    I just bought a new New P67A-C45 (B3), fixed everything up, installed the realtek sound driver then i start to hear the static/hissing noise from my speakers.
    The noise seems to be in sync with the HDD activity.
    I research online and it seems that not only I have this problem, quite a few people having the same sound chipset on a Gigabyte board are also facing the same problem.
    But all solutions is in the direction of mac, stating that a v262 driver have solved the problem.
    Anyone got any idea about this? I am rally very irritated with the static/hissing noises coming from the audio..

    Quote from: HU16E on 11-April-11, 07:47:47
    Have a look in your manual of the included accessories with your mainboard. Note the 'Back I/O Plate'.
    For this I think you all are talking about the back panel right? One of the tabs is touching the exterior of the ethernet port. I assume it should be correct?
    Quote from: sjay on 11-April-11, 07:48:46
    What they mean is you need to remove the graphics card and unplug the cables from the motherboard and remove the motherboard itself, check the grounding screws (The screws that the mobo sits on and in to which you screw the mobo screws into to hold it down) and make sure that all of them match the holes on the mobo, if there are any that don't match Remove the standoff because it is causing the improper grounding you are experiencing. If you are missing any ("only using two"?) and have standoffs laying around, add the standoffs to the holes that fit.
    I did this just last night and it fixed my reboot problem after I had done everything via bios and OS to try and solve it.
    Done as well. The base plate in my casing for the motherboard was just fitting for it. I do not need any stand-offs, there were six bumps that align with screw holes nicely.
     

  • P67A-C45 (B3) not working with Radeon 280x

    Hello all,
    After taking all my day on this issue, I really need some help if possible.
    I just bought a Sapphire Raderon Tri-X R9 280x to replace my old GTX560Ti from Nvidia. Unfortunatly, when I plug it to my mobo and switching on the computer, nothing is displayed. I only have a black screen and the mobo screen never appears, boot seems to be stucked. I'm using DVI (and tested HDMI as well). When I plug back my old Nvidia, it's working again, everything is booting and after that windows is loading. The ATI GPU is plugged to my A/C with 6+2 pin and 6 pin. Even if my A/C is not that powerfull, it should at least launch everything to Windows. I checked 10 times everything was well plugged. I did a lot of search on google, and flashing the bios seems to work sometimes. But not for me...nor uninstall all previous drivers. Did I miss something in BIOS?
    Here are my computer specs:
    Motherboard= P67A-C45 (B3) freshly flashed to 5.4
    Proc= i5 2500k
    GPU (the old one)= Nvidia GTX 560 Ti
    A/C= Seasonic 500w S12ll (+12V => 34A - 408W)
    OS= Windows 7 - 64
    Here is what I already tested:
    1. Flash the BIOS (I'm on v5.4 now)
    2. Update all the drivers via Live update 6
    3. Uninstall every nvidia driver using "Display Driver Uninstaller"
    4. Installing Catalyst
    What I didn't tried yet:
    1. Test with another computer (I plan to do it tomorrow)
    Have you already met this issue on your side before?
    Thank a lot for your help.

    So I tested on another computer/mobo. This time the computer is booting but nothing is displayed on the screen. Maybe it's due to driver conflict or whatever but this time it booted.
    Do you think that it means the GPU is working fine? After some search on google, I found 2 guys using this same mobo with exactly the same GPU and it's working.
    So here I have 2 choices, I buy a new PSU (are you sure that it can disturb the boot process? I though GPU only fully used PSU in game for instance), or I send the card to after sales but they will charge me money if the card is actually working or send me back a new card (but it won't work anyway if it's not a problem from GPU).
    Based on the fact that it booted on another PC, do you think the GPU is working and do you have any advice?
    Best Regards,

  • P67A-C45 (B3) and USB 3.0 internal connector

    Hello to all!!
    I'm here because I'm not able to find a solution, here is the situation:
    - Internal memory 3,5" card reader USB 2.0
    - Front case USB 2.0 ports.
    This motherboard is equipped with one only USB 2.0 connector and one USB 3.0.
    Here the problem:
    I must connect OR the front case USB ports OR the card reader, and it is not acceptable
    What I checked:
    - PCI card for USB 2.0 ports with at least an internal one: does not apply due to the internal connector, it's exactly the same as the external ones (checked many manufacters and models, all the same)
    - Looking for a 3.5" card reader USB 3.0 only seems doesn't exist, I can find some model with USB 3.0, eSATA, USB 2.0 all together, and I want only memories slots.
    - Looking for an adapter that convert the USB port to an internal one: no success.
    Anyone can help me to find a solution? This is a very stupid problem, and I'm surprise to don't be able to find a stupid solution!!
    Tks in advance

    Quote from: Henry on 18-May-11, 03:17:45
    Keep in mind that with MSI mb P67A-C45 the number in red is indicative of the feature level, lower # = fewer features, higher number = more features. For P67: 43 = lowest level, 80 = highest level
    Tks for the info, very useful!
    Now I found and bought a NZXT product (http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/case_accessories/iu01_usb_expansion), installed on any computer with non MSI motherboard it works, on this motherboard not at all.
    If I connect an external USB HDD it switch on for one second and then OFF, if I connect a pendrive it is not detected by the OS and its led is steady ON.
    So, it is impossible in any way to have more than one USB 2.0 connector managed by this motherboard??? 

  • MSI P67A-C45 B3 system freezing

    Hello to Everyone,
    Please help me if you can !
    I also have a brand new system (all components are new) and I am not able to install Win7-64 or Win7-32 onto this system.
    Hardware & Software config :
    - MSI P67A-C45-B3 motherboard
    - MSI PCIe Nvidia N450GTS-MD1GD5 graphic
    - Intel I5-2500 3,3Ghz 4-core CPU with original cooler
    - Cooler Master Elite 500W power supply RS500-ASABL3-EU-GX
    - Western Digital SATA3 1,5TByte HDD
    - Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 (2pcs of 4GByte RAM put in blue sockets)
    - BIOS version 7673 1J, set on "default" mode, all data in BIOS shows no deviation from specs of installed components.
    - Original box version familiy pack Win7-32 and Win7-64
    Voltages are correct, overclocking settings are strictly prohibited.
    After trying to boot from original DVD (...no matter whether it is 32bit or 64 bit box version...) the system frozen at the screen right after loading files, before the first graphic screen appears.
    I did the memory tests with many different softwares - no results / no problems.
    I made HW test of VGA and motherboard from ultimate boot DVD - no results.
    All the cabling perfectly connected.
    I also tried to start Ubuntu-64 but the result is the same.... the mem test of Ubuntu shows no problem.
    Question : What diagnostic tool you can suggest to detect the "dead" component ?
    Or just return it to the shop ?
    Thanks for all support or ideas in advance !

    Try with just one mem stick. Try clearing cmos and retry >>Clear CMOS Guide<<
    There is no further tool if you are outside windows and already tried mem test.

  • Help finding the Best BIOS settings for P67A-C45 (2)

    Hello again folks
    I Have a P67A-C45 board with an Intel i5 [email protected] and 8Ghz DDR3@1600 of memory
    I just want to know what are the best setiings to my system. I'm planning to make an overclock, but i don't know much about these.
    My ram are at 1333 MHz. What's the problem????

    Quote
    My ram are at 1333 MHz. What's the problem?
    Your CPU only natively supports up to 1333mhz memory. Your memory sticks, although rated to run up to DDR3-1600 speed, are only natively DDR3-1333.
    Hence, if you have not applied any overclocks, and are running at default settings, the BIOS is reading the default native SPD setting for your memory, which will be DDR3-1333 settings. So no, there is no problem really. In order to run your sticks at their rated setting, you will need to overclock.
    But, you might want to have a read of this:
    https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=147704.0
    If you have more questions about overclocking, then please ask them in the correct area of this forum (the Overclockers area), after first reading the >>Posting Guide<<

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