PAL -- NTSC 60 hour encoding! Why?

Brought home some movies from France to convert to NTSC DVD. Used HandBrake to convert the PAL DVD to 486 scanlines & 23.976 frame rate. remastered it as new iDVD NTSC project. it plays great but iDVD took 60 hours to encode the video!
is there a faster way to do this?
also looks great without deinterlacing & horrible with deinterlacing. Didn't go there.

Hi
a. 486 scanlines & 23.976 frame rate - NTSC is 29.97 fps
b. iDVD does a losy job converting PAL to NTSC. I use
JESDeinterlacer3.2.2 which does a great job
(alt. Compressor in FinalCut Studio suite - even better but expensive)
c. Extreme times to convert / encode often falls back to:
• Low free space on internal (start-up) hard disk - usually > 25Gb but when
converting - double this is my setting
• Strange file formats that has to be converted as intermittent step
eg. .mpeg4 etc. - this also requires even more free space
Free space - because iDVD can't address any other disk as scrap-disk.
Yours Bengt W

Similar Messages

Pal/NTSC - double trouble?

I'm creating a DVD for use both in the UK (Pal) and in Canada (NTSC). Do I need two different video files - one in Pal, the other NTSC - or can the DVD play if it's set to multi-region?

Ideally, you need one in PAL and the other in NTSC. The region coding is a different issue, but yes, you should set this to be region all (i.e. check all of the region code boxes) if you are distributing this on DVD-R. If you are replicating, then you can decide if you want to restrict it to region 1 & 2 if you like...
Playing PAL in NTSC land seems more problematic than playing NTSC over here in the UK - many modern TVs are now able to handle NTSC natively, but not all are. All players will handle NTSC discs, mind you - it's the TV that's the weak link in the equation.
If playback is for a computer, then PAL/NTSC is immaterial... computers don't conform to those standards and both will play equally, as long as the region info is OK.
You cannot put PAL and NTSC on the same side of a DVD, but you can use double sided discs (although you can't get any label info on these, except in the hub ring area), or you'll be doing a two disc set... setting up two projects in DVDSP and encoding two sets of assets, etc, etc, etc!

PAL/NTSC half-sized frames SP LP ****

Here's the rub: I have a SONY DCR-HC90 (NTSC)... which iMovie can and does import flawless NTSC recorded DV. However, when it comes to importing PAL DV it is struggling. If I change the frame rate to 25fps, iMovie throws up "the camera is sending half-sized frames, which iMovie HD can't accept.... blah blah. Setting the frame rate to 29.75fps (NTSC), causes the iMovie to abort the import.
The end result is that I can't import PAL from my NTSC handycam!!! (By the way, the camera's plays both perfectly on TV and in it's LCD screen.
Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks

I think it isn't possible to import to a PAL project from a NTSC camcorder even if a TV accepts it. Most current PAL TVs can play NTSC just fine but iMovie might not be so tolerant.
[digs old posts]:
My PAL Sony TRV320E VCR menus have a setting VTR SET/NTSC PB/ON PAL TV or NTSC 4.43. My setting has always been "ON PAL TV".
The TRV320E (PAL) manual says this about the NTSC PB setting:
"ON PAL TV: To playback a tape recorded on your camcorder on a PAL system."
"NTSC 4.43: To playback a tape recorded in the NTSC colour system on a TV with the NTSC 4.43 mode."
Googling around indicated that NTSC 4.43 is a variation of NTSC where the signal is encoded using the PAL subcarrier frequency and chroma modulation. Also known as PAL60. Or:
A variation of NTSC-M where a 525/59.94 NTSC signal is encoded using the PAL subcarrier frequency and chroma modulation. It is NOT PAL, nor is it encoded as PAL, but rather i! t is NTSC color just using PAL's subcarrier frequency. Most (but not all) multi-system Vcr's will support this mode, but only multi-standard monitors are capable of reproducing it."
Also:
If you have a DV cassette recorded at 30 p/s (from a NTSC camcorder...), and play it on a PAL TRV-900, that machine will output a non-standard signal at 30 p/s with either NTSC 4.43 color encoding or PAL color encoding (choice in the menus). Most TV will play it fine, but VCRs won't record it. From that tape, it will also output a standard NTSC DV stream via firewire.
Or vice versa:
If you have a DV cassette recorded at 25 p/s (from a PAL camcorder...), and play it on a US TRV-900, that machine will output a non-standard signal at 25 p/s with NTSC 3.58 color encoding. Most TV will play it fine, but VCRs won't record it. From that tape, it will also output a standard PAL DV stream via firewire.
Out of curiosity I set my PAL Sony TRV320 to VTR SET/NTSC PB/ from "ON PAL TV" to "NTSC 4.43".
This setting didn't seem to have any effect when importing old footage or new footage to an iMovie HD PAL project. I could apply titles as usual.
I then created a NTSC project and tried to import from the camcorder to it but (as expected) iMovie had an error message that it couldn't import half frames or something like that.

PAL - NTSC for Japan

Hi all, I have a question that I hope someone can answer.
I've gotta shoot a few minutes if footage that a friend of mine is then taking to Japan and showing to
someone there. Now as far as I know they'll be watching in on a PC but Im gonna try give him as many format
variations as possible to be sure. So the queston is, f I'm shooting in standard miniDV PAL, what are the
best options for me in terms of encoding I should do, do I export as PAL MPEG 2 on DVD, what kind of
effect does the PAL->NTSC conversion have. Should I do a VideoCD version.
My plan is to to a NTSC DVD, and MPEG 1 & 4 version and maybe a few others. Does this sound good enough?
Thanks in advance
Declan

The OP said he thinks it will be played
on a computer but he wants to give as many options as
possible. . . I took that to mean he'd like it to be
watchable on TV in Japan if possible. He needs NTSC.
From the tone of the post I assumed, perhaps glibly, that this is not a life-threatening project. There was never mention of TV playback. But I take your point.
PAL to NTSC via Compressor . . . "successful" maybe
but read the posts on this forum to learn about the
quality! (I'd LOVE to be proved wrong
though)!
Oh, I hadn't seen those posts. I've only run a few small tests myself, but the results were excellent to my eye. This is the method I used:
http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/secrets/marchcreate/index.php?pf=1
What kind of problems have you seen? I've had a quick look back through a few threads and most of the issues I have seen would probably have been solved with a careful setup.
I'm sure Graeme Nattress's plugins are excellent, haven't used them. I've done most of my conversions to date in After Effects, also with good results.

PAL - NTSC, Looks fine on comp, bad on TV

Hi All,
My Setup: Quad G5, 2.5ghz, 4.5GB ram, Final Cut Studio (all versions completely up to date)
I know there are a million issues in converting PAL -> NTSC, but I was hoping someone could possibly give me a direction to start looking..
I used Nattress filters to convert PAL timeline footage to NTSC. I burned a DVD and it looks really good on my computer. Then when i play it on a TV, the motion is TERRIBLE. Like it is jumpy and has trails everywhere.
What types of settings or issues could be causing the significant discrepancy between what the converted footage looks like on comp versus TV? I know that square/rectangle pixels are an issue, but I wonder if this goes beyond that? It doesn't seem to be just an aspect issue, but I could be wrong...
Thanks in advance,
Jason

Hi:
I found a good preset settings to use with Compressor in an old thread from Hanumang (I cabbot find now the link, sorry).
Start with the standard NTSC preset in Compressor, in the group Advanced Format Conversion and check from the following list and change appropiates settings (is a copy of my custom PAL to NTSC preset):
========================
Name: DV NTSC Conversion Hanumag
Description: DV/DVCam NTSC with 48kHz stereo audio
File Extension: mov
Audio Encoder
16-bit Integer (Big Endian), Stereo (L R), 48,000 kHz
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: 720
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: NTSC CCIR 601/DV
Crop: None
Frame rate: 29.97
Frame Controls:
Retiming: Motion Compensated
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Motion Adaptive
Adaptive Details: On
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Bottom Field First
Codec Type: DV/DVCPRO - NTSC
Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: Off
Scan Mode: Interlaced
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 99
Min. Spatial quality: 50
Temporal quality: 0
Min. temporal quality: 50
========================
Make a short test and compare with your previous results. The encoding is quite slow, but you get very good results (and it's free).
Hope that helps !
Alberto

OK, the videoformat may be changed (PAL, NTSC) by plugin a specified cable, but how can I force to have PAL-format instead of NTSC to be send to iMovie via the USB-cable?

OK, the videoformat may be changed (PAL, NTSC) by plugin a specified cable to be connected the iPhone to the TV, but how can I force to have PAL-format instead of NTSC to be send to iMovie via the USB-cable? Al this transcoding afterwards takes a lot to much time. Is there a solution before sending the clips?

Well, thanks a lot. iMovie '11 is similar, but not identical and unfortunately I don't seem to find any "Frame Rate Pop-Up menu" when I generate a new Project. Do not find an "Aspect Ratio Pop-Up" either. Also the help does not speak of this options. I just have to choose a Theme and that's it. Also the "Settings" Menu for the Film does not help.
I also checked the general settings for iMovie:
So I would dare say, there is actually no possibility anymore, to set the output format. And also when I create the output file, there is nothing more than a short list of resolutions.
I do not understand why all options were taken away. I admit, I am a little disappointed.
Best regards
Claudio

Sharing movies overseas - PAL & NTSC burning

OK -
So apparently I have the option to burn a movie as NTSC or PAL.
So I have to assume that the region codes on my Superdrive only matter when there is a commerically sold protected disk being played.
Figuring out the best way to produce a home movie DVD to share with friends in Europe is still a problem.
I do know that apparently TV set-top DVD burners produce video disks which have no region code difficulties. Is this likewise true for movies edited in iMovie, Final Cut Express & burned via iDVD?
More information would help keep this from being a trial & error process - if the people on the other end are not overly technical. Its hard enough to get substantive "help desk-type" of feedback to even understand the nature of the problem your recipients might be experiencing.

Hi Ernest
I know all about the PAL/NTSC conversion because I, unlike you, live in a Pal area.
You are so lucky living in USA because NTSC is accepted in all areas. In fact even though I live in a PAL area, New Zealand all my DVD's produced for world sale are in the NTSC format. Virtually every DVD player accepts NTSC but unfortunatley for me the USA DVD players do notaccept Pal
So you can safely make and send all your DVD's in NTSC and they will be playable worldwide.
As I said I live in a PAL area. 25 frames per sec and I have to change my DVD programmes to NTSC approx 29 frames per second. To get an acceptable conversion can be either very expensive or time consuming.
I have not tried the Jes de interlacer so I cannot comment but most on the forum find it acceptable.
I found the problem was to get good quality on all formats, computer, tube and LCD and Plasma at an acceptable cost and did not tie up my computer for hours.
Eventually I managed to find out how to do it but it is a long job.
One would think that the answer would be to film in NTSC but one cannot do this in a PAL area because of the difference in the electricity voltage. If I used an NTSC camera under lamps here in NZ the pictures would be unusable and visa versa.
Nowadays all commercial DVD's are just dubbed in NTSC. This is a pity because PAL gives a better picture. In the trade NTSC used to be known as Never The Same Colour Twice.
Sometimes I wish I lived in the USA!
Hope this helps
Jane

Ref. monitor for pal,ntsc and HD

hey there,
i am working more and more on my own edit station. so i want to make it more efficient.
i need a monitor or TV to see my edits on a bigger scale, something like a reference screen!!
and i need a pci card to connect it, too.
but here is the thing, ideally i need one that i can use for PAL, NTSC AND HD projects!
is that even possible??
my intention is mainly to see my edit on a bigger scale, not necessarily to have a 1:1 reference image because i guess that would be out of my budget. otherwise that would of course be very interesting!
i use a 2x2.66GHz Dual-Core Mac Pro Computer with MAC OS10.6.4 and FCP 7
thanks for your help and interest!!
andy

hey, thanks for your reply.
unfortunately those high end reference monitors are out of my budget.
i would already be happy, to have some sort of screen (TV or monitor) on which i can
see my edit on a bigger scale. i don't need it for color correction or finalizing.
and as i work on SD and HD projects, it should work with both.
so, is it possible to use a HD-TV or a computer monitor for that?
SDI or HDMI?
forgive me, if this is confusing, but english is not my mother tongue.
thanks again for your help!!

Setting PAL/NTSC format with OneStep in iDVD 5

I'm trying to create a DVD from some MiniDV tapes I've recorded, but I need to make sure it's recorded in PAL format as it's being sent overseas. I'm using the OneStep option in iDVD, but the only place I could find to set PAL/NTSC is in the preferences, which is only available when you're using a project. I created a dummy project and set it to PAL, then quit iDVD, restarted and went to the OneStep option to burn the DVD. The problem is I think it still recorded in the NTSC format because the DVD played fine on my home DVD player on my tv, which is NTSC. I checked the settings again on iDVD, and it still says PAL, but I'm not convinced it actually recorded with OneStep in PAL since it plays fine on my home system. Can anyone tell me the definitive answer to recording in PAL/NTSC using the OneStep option in iDVD? Thanks in advance.

I used OneStep once... Don't like it. So I'm not much help there, but...
I just returned from an Italian-based cruise ship and bought their DVD of the cruise. I became acquainted with the videographer since he was on a few excursions we took. When I bought the DVD, he was there and I asked about whether I needed NTSC for back home. He said: "It doesn't matter with DVDs." Apparently, he was right because I went back to my cabin and played it in my PowerBook without any trouble. Same here in the USA.
So maybe it doesn't matter, but I can't tell you that with 100% assurance.

IDVD - PAL - NTSC - REGIONS; All messed up?

So I finished a project on iDVD, and the "clients" are from many different countries... The original project was worked as PAL. In the end, in iDVD I changed the setting to NTSC in order to write 3 disks. 1 for a client in Canada, and 2 for the U.S.
With the Canadian, there were no issues (at least the client didn't mention anything, only that the DVDs were great).
The one American, told me she had to change regions to her laptop DVD in order to watch it, but other than that it was ok.
The other American, could not watch the DVDs on her old windows xp laptop, also not on her DVD player on her Tv. She also went to a store to ask for help and the technician told her he could see the contents of the disk, but not play them; probably because they were not NTSC (!!!!). Finally she watched the DVDs by using VLC on her laptop (no region change here...)
What is going on? The same disks, 3 totally different behaviours...
Can anyone guess what went wrong?
I would really like to fix those problems...
Thank you!

Hi
Region - Should not be any problem - as iDVD only can make Region = Zero (0)
This means - Plays in any economical region (Has Nothing to do With TV-Standard at all)
TV-standard are as:
• NTSC (29.97fps) 520 lines - about 640x480 pixels (square) 720x480 rectangular (narrow) pixels
• PAL (25 fps) 625 lines - about 768x576 pixels (square) 720x576 rectangular (narrow) pixels
And Playback on Computer - should be able to use both - VLC usually works better than QuickTime in these cases. BUT here I noticed that PC/Macs are picky on Quality
• Burn speed I set down to x2 (or x4)
• I only use Verbatim DVDs - NO Memorex or NoName or other cheap brands - Yes it matters
• I use DVD-R as they play on more and even older DVD-players
My notes on this subject.
PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL
A. Copying commercial DVDs - No Not possibly at all - Not even legal to discuss.
B. Home made DVDs (DVDs without copy protection)
C. Movies from iMovie or FinalCut
• Save as full quality QuickTime .mov and convert this with JES_Deinterlacer (free on internet)
NTSC ---> PAL.
• Most often not necessary - Most stand alone PAL DVD-players playback NTSC
(if TV is old in BL/W)
PAL ---> NTSC.
• If played on Mac - not necessary AT ALL
• If on NTSC DVD-player - CONVERSION IS NEEDED - nearly no Stand alone NTSC-DVD-players
playback PAL at all.
To do this You need to convert the PAL DVD to streaming.DV or full quality QuickTime .mov
• I use Roxio Toast™ to do this (There are no free converter)
• JES_Deinterlacer (free on internet) to convert to NTSC
• Set up an NTSC project (29.97fps or 30) in iDVD and import then burn
I burn to
• Verbatim DVD-R
• Set down burn speed in iDVD to x1 or x4 recommended by many
• Secure a minimum of 25Gb free space on internal boot hard disk before burning (IMPORTANT)
PAL is 25 fps and an analog TV standard of 625 lines
NTSC is 29.97 fps and 520 lines
NTSC (29.97fps) 520 lines - about 640x480 pixels (square) 720x480 rectangular (narrow) pixels
PAL (25 fps) 625 lines - about 768x576 pixels (square) 720x576 rectangular (narrow) pixels
to use a photo 702x480 resp 576 then add 9 pixels on each side to add together as 720
If iDVD hangs on PAL or NTSC.
Bengt W wrote
Deleting iDVD pref. file - should return You into NTSC mode.
Yes iDVD can switch to PAL - BUT as You see with a rather lousy result.
a. Need to convert to PAL - most often not - Most PAL-player can playback NTSC
and on a fairly new TV in color. (old TV in Bl/W)
(Other way around - from PAL to NTSC most often a must - few NTSC-player can use PAL)
b. IF MUST - then use JES_Deinterlacer to do this conversion - so much better and free.
My list on this (or rather PAL --> NTSC - just think the other way around)
I have to send it overseas
That too can be a problem. As USA = NTSC = 29.97fps and EU = PAL = 25fps.
DO Not let iMovie or iDVD do this conversion from one to the other - Result will be Very
BAD
I save the movie as a full quality QuickTime .mov file then I use JES_Deinterlacer to do the conversion - then I cont. in iMovie or iDVD with project set accordingly.
JES_Deinterlacer is free on Internet and there are Pro applications but not that much better and costs are astronomical.
PAL-DVDs - don't play in US
NTSC-DVDs - usually plays well in EU
All plays well on a Mac - What ever.
Allosaurus writes
Thank you SDMacuser. I dumped all the plist icons with no result, and was getting pretty plist off when it occurred to me to delete all the previous dvd.proj files. Bingo. That did the trick. So thank you for all your help and the additional information you provided.
Yours Bengt W

Possible to do a DL PAL / NTSC DVD?

Hi,
we just finishing our DVD which is a PAL project and just comes out to fit a single DVD. Is it possible to make a DualLayer DVD with a PAL project on the first half and a NTSC project on the second to increase the commercial sale possibilities for the USA and Japan? Would a standard DVD be able to choose between these two or does it has to work through a kind of universal Menue?
Best regards - Christoph

Christoph:
Would a standard DVD be able to choose between these two or does it has to work through a kind of universal Menue?
There is no way to include both standards PAL/NTSC material in the same disc/project.
Alberto

Problems with usa Apple Tv in europe due to PAL/NTSC

Im thinking about buying one in NY to take it to Spain, is it possible??

PAL/NTSC is no longer really relevant where AppleTV2 is concerned - it only officially outputs 720p to HDMI equipped TVs.
AC

How to convert DVDs (PAL, NTSC) to mp4?

Hello,
I would like to convert DVDs (PAL, NTSC) to mp4.
I have Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, but never used it.
I am looking for a easy to understand information how to do it step by step.
Maybe there are already how tos for this?
PAL: 720 x 576, 25 fps
NTSC: 720 x 480, 29 fps
Thank you very much.
Sandra

Oh, you need to learn the program first before you can export anything...
Get yourself a month of Lynda.com subscription and learn CS3.
Watch the Online Video Course Premiere Pro CS3 Essential Training
Adobe TV had a course for CS3 but they dropped that.

PAL & NTSC DVDs--an Option?

I have an extensive collection of PAL & NTSC DVDs. The G5 has a (lower) empty optical drive slot. If I install another Superdrive will I be able to set it up to exclusively use this to play PAL regions 2 & 4 DVDs without locking the G5 permanently into this format i.e. use the first drive to still play NTSC Region 1 DVDs only? I understand that the manual says the the format choice can only be changed 5 times, but it is not clear to me if this statement applies only to the optical drives or the computer itself. I certainly do not want to make an irreversible choice for the G5!
Any help will be appreciated.

So... You are confusing video standard (format) with region codes here. The optical drives in Macs (most) are region code locked, meaning that they will only play disks from one region (and that region may be changed up to 5 times before the hardware gets stuck). It doesn't care what video format is on the disk from that region (NTSC or PAL), and it doesn't care about region-free disks (recordable DVDs, and commercial region-free disks).
On the Mac, the region locking is managed by firmware on the drive itself, so you can have one drive per region, if you like.
It might be more convenient to upgrade the firmware on the drive (depending on what model you have) to a region-free version of the firmware. As you may or may not be aware, the US is a WIPO signatory country and is prohibited from recognizing region codes as a form of copy protection or copyright control. Apple includes region code locks on their drives, ostensibly at the behest of their peers in the media industry, but it's perfectly OK for you to remove it (and, there are locales where region code locking is actually prohibited, but presumably if you bought your Mac there the locks are already absent). Be aware, however, that changing the firmware of the drive would void the warranty on the drive (not the whole Mac, just the DVD drive).
Another option might be to purchase an external region-free DVD drive.

PAL-NTSC questions

I have a lot of VHS-PAL tapes to commit to iMovie/iDVD5. I have transferred several using a Video Standards Converter (PAL to NTSC) and an Analog to Digital converter (set to NTSC). There were some artifacts in the final result that I did not like, so I removed the Standards converter and set the A/D device to PAL (rather than NTSC) and fed into iMovie/iDVD5. The results played perfectly on a Sony DVD player into CRT analog TVs with NO artifacts!
I am thinking of using this as standard practice because results are superior.
How is this method possible?
Does iMovie/iDVD5, or the Sony player throw away 100 scan lines and insert 5 fps?
Conversely will homegrown NTSC DVDs play on PAL players and PAL TVs?
Am I making a mistake for the future?
Will this work with the new Digital display TVs (Hi-Def)?
I would sincerely appreciate any enlightenment that the forum can offer on all my questions.
This is Posted on both iDVD and iMovie Forums for wider exposure
G4 Quicksilver Dual 1.0GHz: G3-400 B&W 768MB RAM Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Yes, you can convert PAL<->NTSC via iDVD/iMovie/QT
but the results are not very good because the
movement gets jerky because frames are just dropped
or duplicated to compensate the different
framerates.
I guess iDVD did the conversion in your case because
apparently you left its prefs at NTSC.
You get smoother motion with JES Deinterlacer:
http://www.sjoki.uta.fi/~shmhav/SVCDon_aMacintosh.ht
ml#PAL_NTSC
http://www.danslagle.com/mac/iMovie/tips_tricks/6017.s
html
Dear Matti: You were perfectly correct in your analysis as to what transpired. Your answer and the valuable links help me a lot and are sincerely appreciated.
One further question, however: How long does the JES DeInterlacer take to convert 1 minute if iMovie from PAL to NTSC?
Thanks again
Malcolm
G4 Quicksilver Dual 1.0GHz: G3-400 B&W 768MB RAM Mac OS X (10.3.9)

PAL -- NTSC 60 hour encoding! Why?

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