Pantone Swatch values vs. Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated Book values

I'm working with a set of Pantone colors.
Why don't the Pantone's CMYK/RGB values in Illustrator CC match the values given in the Pantone Plus Color Bridge Book?

J,
I understood from the other threads that the RGB value set was predetermined by the company, and not to be replaced by something from whomever (even Pantone).
Apart from that, when you have the colour of a Pantone ink and need to substitute it by a CMYK and/or RGB value set, it will always be off in some way or another. And if you need to combine multiple substitute colours, they may very well be off in different ways with the conversions provided by Pantone, which means that they be more inferior to the Pantone inks than they need. Something similar may apply to cases with combinations of substituted Pantone ink colours and original CMYK/RGB colours.
So at least in some cases there may be a better choice of CMYK/RGB values than a conversion provided by Pantone.
In other words: who says that you agree, or should agree, with the (latest) conversion(s) provided by Pantone in each and every case?
It may be worth noting that Pantone themselves have changed their mind about the best conversions more than once.

Similar Messages

Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated vs Pantone+ Solid Coated

In Illustrator CC-2014, why is there a difference in a solid colour for example PMS 123 when one is used from the Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated and the other from the Pantone+ Solid Coated Library.

The reason for the discrepancy is my last results was that while the Working Colour Space was changed from SWOP to SheetFed, it was over looked that the assigned profile remained to that of SWOP. In the screen shots below Working Colour Space and Assigned Profile are set the same. Printed results closely reflect to what I see on screen with the SheetFed Profile producing a better match in my opinion. Cheers

Pantone Color Bridge swatches?

For my projects I need to work in CMYK with process colors. Today, after looking at my Pantone color guide book here in my office I found a color I wanted to use for a client's project. Next I selected the swatches palette to display Pantone process uncoated colors. To my confusion the color I wanted to use (PMS PC 633) was not in the list of Pantone Process Uncoated color swatches.
I went back to the swatch palette to view the Swatch Library > Color Books list. I see some other options:
Pantone color bridge CMYK EC
Pantone color bridge CMYK PC
Pantone color bridge CMYK UP
Does anyone know what these are? I do see my PMS 633 in the UP list. But I'm not sure what the difference is between these libraries and the Pantone process uncoated, or between these three (EC, PC and UP). Does anybody out there know what these libraries are for and if I can safely use them? Thanks.

Sorry for posting before Googling the topic. Found this:
http://yourartdirector.blogspot.com/2008/04/pantone-rebuilt-their-bridge.html
Great information on this site.

CMYK Pantone breakdowns different Pantone Color Bridge

I was wanting to know why the color breakdown that Indesign gives for a Spot Pantone color is different to the one specified in a Pantone Color Bridge book. Also the color on screen that Pantone Color Bridge breakdowns show seems more accurate than the ones specified by Indesign.
Any ideas on this or articles that can explain this?
Thanks

Jono10 wrote:
One last thing. If I use the 'Standard Lab values for spots' in Ink manager which gives me a better on screen reproduction of a color then I should do the same in Illustrator under 'Spot colour Options' in the swatches palette.
Lab might give you a better on screen preview of Pantone Solid inks (spot color, not CMYK), especially if the color is out of the CMYK gamut.
Lab doesn't necessarily give you a better preview of how the color would convert to process CMYK. If you want a preview of how a Lab color would convert to CMYK, you could check both Use Standard Lab... and All Spots To Process in Ink Manager.

CS5.5 Can't see Pantone Color Bridge libraries!

Hello there!
I am using Creative Suite CS5.5 Trial version for now on Windows 7 platform. For some reason I don't see Pantone Color Bridge libraries, only the old ones, but none of the Plus Series. I was able to see these colors on version 5, but not here. Can't see them on Photoshop, Illustrator or InDesign. I wonder if CS5.5 supports these colors. I even downloaded a plugin from Pantone and Pantone Color Manager, but with no luck. I contacted Pantone, but still waiting for a response. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!
Aldo

Please post in the InDesign forum. This forum is for suite specific issues only.
Bob

Pantone Color Bridge vs Photoshop

Hello,
I'm curious why my Pantone Color Bridge is giving me different information than Photoshop CS4 for PMS 549. I am in the process of creating a style guide for a client of mine, and he requested the spot, process, RGB and HTML color codes.
Pantone Color Bridge says:
PMS 549C
RGB 94/156/174
CMYK 59/8/9/19
HTML 5E9CAE
Photoshop says:
PMS 549C
RGB 94/156/174
CMYK 65/26/26/1
HTML 5e9cae
The 65/26/26/1 looks a lot closer on the screen (I know, I know...) Does anyone know why the anomaly?

A quick bit of testing shows that your Photoshop setting for CMYK is USWebCoatedSWOPv2 - a pretty good middle-of-the-road profile.
The build from Color Bridge is using a very heavy black generation - probably a lowest-common-denominator approach Pantone uses to give the most consistent color in the face of inevitable press drift in most assuredly unknown press conditions. A crapshoot.
The actual color that comes off a press from a given CMYK build is very dependent upon paper and press conditions.
Tread lightly here when recommending a CMYK build to your client. Include a BIG caveat.

Pantone Color Bridge - digital values vs book values?

Hello,
I've had to update our Pantone libraries for the CS3 suite to Color Bridge (for working with a 3rd party). I've downloaded Pantone's library update so I can access Color Bridge via the libraries in Illustrator and InDesign. When I convert from PMS to CMYK, the digital values match that of the book values, but when I do the same for RGB (sRGB) and web, the digital values DON'T match that of those in the book.
Does anyone know why the RGB and web values differ digital to book?
Thanks,
Kristin.

J,
I understood from the other threads that the RGB value set was predetermined by the company, and not to be replaced by something from whomever (even Pantone).
Apart from that, when you have the colour of a Pantone ink and need to substitute it by a CMYK and/or RGB value set, it will always be off in some way or another. And if you need to combine multiple substitute colours, they may very well be off in different ways with the conversions provided by Pantone, which means that they be more inferior to the Pantone inks than they need. Something similar may apply to cases with combinations of substituted Pantone ink colours and original CMYK/RGB colours.
So at least in some cases there may be a better choice of CMYK/RGB values than a conversion provided by Pantone.
In other words: who says that you agree, or should agree, with the (latest) conversion(s) provided by Pantone in each and every case?
It may be worth noting that Pantone themselves have changed their mind about the best conversions more than once.

Pantone Color 5615 Coated Won't Print On 1 of 2 Identical HP DesignJet 5500s

Hi,
We've run into an odd problem where we have 2 locations with identical setups: Creative Suite Design Premium 4, Mac Pros, and HP DesignJet 5500s. The same InDesign file prints fine in one location with a DesignJet 5500, but when we print the same ID file at the second location that has a second DesignJet 5500, the only color that doesn't print correctly is Pantone 5615 Coated. We're using same printer driver version for both printers. I haven't yet checked Firmware versions for both printers.
On the printer that won't print Pantone 5615, the printer doesn't print it correctly in any of our Creative Suite applications. We tried creating completely new files in ID, PS, IL and the color won't print. We've checked color management in Bridge and ID and they seem OK. We're not currently having any other color problems printing with any other Creative Suite files with this printer. Colors are accurate all the way around.
I read the forum and saw a lot of posting about Pantone colors, so I will try some of the suggestions related to Pantone issues. At the moment, I'm not at the location with the problem printer and can't try the suggestions until next week.
When I was at the location yesterday, we tried printing Pantone 5615 from Quark 7.5 and the color printed fine. Obviously, we don't want to use Quark on an ongoing basis for this project. It seems likely that it isn't a printer hardware problem since the Pantone color prints out fine from the Quark file. There seems to be a setting somewhere in Creative Suite that the printer at our one location doesn't like, or there is some setting on the printer that is different than the other printer. I don't think it's a network problem with the one printer versus the other printer because I would think Quark would then run into the same problem.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jason

I have the same issue with my 44" Z3100ps GP Photo, but it is when I print from Photoshop CS5. I am running OSX 10.68 and since the last Apple/HP printer driver update this last Summer my printer will not print solid black strokes or borders around an image, yet the image prints perfectly.
I tried to roll back the drivers with no success. If I make a solid black rectangler file and try print it nothing at all prints. If I scribble in Photoshop with white paint brush in the middle of that same file the printer skips the left edge of the black rectangle and then prints the middle scribbnle and right egde of the rectangle folowing the contour of the scribble on the left.
Had me baffled and still does, the printheads are in good working order. I print large canvas photos with 1.5" black borders used to cover the sides of stretched canvases. The only way I have found around this issue is to add an inch or so to the canvas size all the way around in photoshop and make it white. That seems to fool the printer into printing the file with the full black border. Still this is not a real fix, but at least it keeps my printer running.
Let me know if you find a solution to this. HP support doesn't help as they only give support to in warranty printers. Maybe Apple could help with the drivers?
Lucas

Pantone conversions to cmyk don't match pantone color bridge

We are having issues at our plant with adobe not converting colors properly. Program using to send to our rip for a di press is Indesign cs6, tried cs5.5 and get the same values.
Example pantone color is 293. We have the latest pantone + bridge and the color break down is 100c 69m 0y 4k but if you let adobe made all spots to process we get a value of 100c 80m 12y 3k.
Any idea what is causing the incorrect values or what I can update to use the correct values?
Thanks.

HI,
In order to get the best CMYK values from InDesign, set your CMYK working space (color settings or Assign ICC to your document) to your DI Press ICC profile.
This way, InDesign will convert from Pantone’s Lab valur to the presse ICC profile’s CMYK values.
CMYK numbers from Color Bridge + are made for european TVI (ISO standard), which is lower that North American standards.
Hope this help!

Pantone Colors not showing in Illustrator

Hi,
I've just purchased new @pantone Pantone + Color Bridge Coated and Uncoated books. I have chosen 2347 C but cannot load this swatch in @Illustrator Illustrator or InDesign - in fact I can't see the whole page of 39C or 38C. I am using Adobe Illustrator CC
I urgently need help on this.
Many Thanks,
Amy

where did you install the color books? they should have the extension .acb
and should be placed (with Illustrator not running) in (on a PC-MAC is similar) Programs/Adobe/Adobe Illustrator/Presets/en_US/Swatches/Color Books

Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match

Hi
I have used a Pantone Plus Color Bridge swatch (specifically Pantone 115 CP - yellow) in my inDesign CC 2014 project.
I have an illustrator .eps file, created in Adobe Illustrator CC 2014 placed in the document. I have used the same Pantone Plus Color Bridge swatch in the .eps file.
When printed there is a VERY noticeable difference between the yellow swatch in the inDesign document and the Illustrator placed graphic.
It looks "correct" in the Illustrator placed graphic, i.e. it matches the swatch book but where the swatch has been used in inDesign, it seems to have shifted to an almost green hue.
Could anyone explain why this might have happened?
Thanks

In your bottom capture the 187 swatch is from the the legacy Pantone library where solid color swatches were defined as CMYK. Here I'ved saved the old pre CS6 coated library and 187 is defined as a spot color but with CMYK values:
Starting with CS6 the solid swatches are Lab definitions and if you chose to convert them to process CMYK, the conversion is color managed Lab to CMYK and the results will depend on your document's CMYK profile and not a Pantone set value. If you select the swatch and look at the Color panel you can see the definition is Lab and the type is Spot:
If you don't want a color managed conversion for CMYK simulations use Pantone + Color Bridge, those swatches are defined as CMYK and the Type is Process

Pantone 2563 in Color Bridge Book (UK)

Hi there,
Can anyone help me please, please, please...
I have a logo that I need to show all the conversions for in: Pantone (2563), CMYK, RGB & Hex.
All I need to know is what the Pantone Color Bridge book says but my manager has lost my book (and annoyingly hasn't replace it yet, even though I've waited six months!) so I am having great difficulty in knowing if my conversions are correct.
If someone out there could help me by literally telling me what the book says for Pantone 2563 then I would be most grateful as at the moment I am pulling out my hair!
Thank you.
Jo

Jo,
you want consistent colors as Spot, in CMYK and in RGB.
The color is defined as Pantone Coated spot ink 2563C.
Right ?
1. Define in Photoshop your RGB space, for instance sRGB.
2. Define in Photoshop your CMYK space, for instance ISO Coated.
3. Define as well a Gray TRC, maybe Black Ink ISO Coated
(can be explained later, TRC=tone reproduction curve,
a better substitute for a single dot gain number).
4. Define as well a Spot TRC, maybe Black Ink ISO Coated.
5. Save these settings (any name)as sRGB-ISO-ISO-ISO.csf
6. Synchronize by CS# Bridge.
How to get the numbers:
Photoshop / Color Picker / Color Libraries / Pantone Coated 2563C.
Read the Lab numbers: L=70, a=24, b=-24. These are independent
of RGB and CMYK choices. Absolute references.
Back to Color Picker / Read CMYK values / Read RGB values /
Read hex values for RGB (used in HTML, practically only for sRGB).
Why is this workflow better than taking the numbers from a
printed or digital swatch book ?
Because the CMYK numbers are valid for a SPECIFIED printing
process (your choice), which contains inks, paper and dot gain.
How to check the conversion quality/robustness:
Fill a rectangle by 2563C or simply by the Lab color.
View / Proof colors for ISO Coated / Gamut warning: no problem.
View / Proof colors for sRGB / Gamut warning: no problem.
Result: this spot color can be printed by spot ink, by CMYK
ISO Coated and it can be reproduced nicely on monitors which
are near to sRGB.
If the percentages for Y and K (for the example 2563C) should
be very low , then I would try to replace these values by 0.
For ISO Coated these values are 0.
Hopefully I understood your task correctly.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Can I easily match Pantone colors using Illustrator?

Hi all,
I run a small invitation supply company.
Our primary design tool up until now has been Photoshop Elements.
We recently purchased a $6000 printer from Xerox which is the 'gold standard' for graphic arts and Pantone approved.
We also have a pantone color bridge. When I print a color using the hex code, the color looks NOTHING like the pantone swatch.
I contacted Xerox and they told me that because Elements has a very low degree of color management that we will never be able to easily color match our pantone swatches and that they aren't surprised the color is way off.
I suppose I naively figured that spending $6000 on a printer would get us easy and flawless color matching. Xerox says- not so.
They suggested investing in Illustrator and they are convinced that it will be much more likely to get us to the point that we want. Ultimately I want to be able to pick a color from the pantone deck, enter the code, and feel confident that the print will come out 100% the corresponding color.
Am I living a pipe dream?
I would like some feedback before proceeding.
On top of the financial investment, obviously there is a lot of time that my partner and I will have to spend learning Illustrator.
Any input would be great.
Thanks,
Aaron

Am I living a pipe dream?
Yes.
More precisely, you are just failing to understand the fundamental difference between spot color and process color.
I want to be able to pick a color from the pantone deck, enter the code, and feel confident that the print will come out 100% the corresponding color.
Not gonna happen, even if you do all the tedious color management setup you can.
The above assumes you are, in fact, talking about matching Pantone spot colors. (Pantone does not just publish spot color swatches, but that is the usual sense in which beginners refer to Pantone.)
A spot color is, by definition, an actual, physical, single ink which is loaded into a press. The only way to achieve your 100% pipedream is to load that actual, physical, single ink into your $6000 printer.
But that's how a printing press works, not how your $6000 printer works. It works by printing four "primary colors" of inks and then arranging tiny dots of them in proximity to each other in order to "trick" the eye into seeing them as a mixture of colors on the page in proportions which try to approximate the spot color as best it can.
But physical inks are simply not accurate enough to actually do that. There are many, many spot colors which simply cannot be replicated by mixing arrays of primary colors of inks. That's what all this "gamut" talk is about. That's one reason why spot color inks exist.
The Pantone spot color matching system is a means by which to consistently communicate proportional mixtures of actual, real, physical inks of known specific colors. All anyone (including Pantone) can do with the CMYK inks (or dyes) in a desktop printer is try to recommend percentages of those CMYK inks to best approximate a match to an actual, physical spot color ink.
It gets worse. Your monitor cannot actually match a spot color ink swatch, either. Your monitor glows. Ink doesn't. Even on tediously calibrated systems, there is more to perceived "color" than just numerical values of CMYK or RGB or HSL or Lab. There is chroma. There is reflectance. There is opacity. There is grain.
Then there's the whole matter of the incredibly context-sensitive adaptabability of human vision.
So if you are selling the output of your $6000 printer as the final product, you should not use Pantone spot color swatches as any kind of contract color specification, because your printer cannot actually print spot color inks. If you're doing color-critical work that the customer will refuse when specified colors don't match, you and your customer must specify colors which your device can actually produce.
JET

Pantone color matching problem

Why is this happening? A Pantone chip in the solid, coated swatch book and AI CS3 pantone swatch library don't match.
811C in the chip book is flourescent orange but onscreen it's peach.
Thanks,
Ian

Its as accurate as it can be considering the differences between RGB and CMYK and Pantone. Remember, RGB is really only suitable for screen based graphics - light emitting devices. CMYK is best for 4 color printing processes. Pantone colors are 'spot' or single colors mixed to get that result.
Alot of confusion happens because the three different systems do not easily 'convert' and people get caught when the printed result bears no resembelance to the screen result.
For really best results get your self a Pantone Color Bridge book, select your Pantone color, and then use the RGB or CMYK breakdown they recommend for best color match.
Fluro colors will never print well as CMYK or RGB although they my view well on screen.

Creative Suite 1 and Pantone Colour Bridge

I've recently bought the Pantone Colour Bridge Fan Deck, registered it and installed the Colour Manager download. Im currently running Creative Suite 1 and a Mac OS X 10.6.8 - except when I export the Pantone colour bridge swatch library and try to open the swatch library in any of my applications I get a error message.
Indesign gives me a pop box that says...
"Cannot create swatch library. There are no swatches in the file "Mactintosh HD:Applications:Adobe InDesign CS:Presets:Swatch Libraries PANTONE+Colour Bridge Coated.acb"
Illustrator gives me a pop box that says...
"The file "PANTONE+ Color Bridg#5DBDB7.acb" is in an unknown format and its styles cannot be imported"
I have tried the "ase" format file too, and that gave me the same result.
Can some one please help me out with this. Is it just that my Creative Suite 1 is just too old and not compatible?
Many thanks

Is it just that my Creative Suite 1 is just too old and not compatible?
Yes.
Mylenium

Pantone Swatch values vs. Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated Book values

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