PDF Color Shift On Windows Platform

OK, here goes:
I still can't print double-sided on my Mac, although the colors reproduce perfectly on our Canon office printer. Grays print neutral gray.
So in order to print double sided documents, I export out of InDesign to a PDF file. I transfer the PDF over to my Windows machine, and then I can print double-sided to this same Canon office printer. (The Windows printer driver enables the double-sided print feature that is not available on the Mac side, no matter what printer driver I use.)
My problem is the PDF prints with a color shift in it, and the nice neutral grays are shifted or "biased" with an obvious color cast. The color shift is unacceptable.
What am I overlooking? Is there a checkbox I've overlooked during the export process?
Grays are hard to print "neutral", of course, on any printer but they actually come out perfectly when printing on the Mac side to the same printer.
Can anyone offer any suggestions to produce accurate color from a PDF on a Windows machine? Printing from the native InDesign file results in perfect color.
Thanks.

Thanks for that tip, Geo.
Since this is a large office-type Canon color copier/scanner/printer, we don't even bother running any color management on this machine. Occasionally the office machine tech's come out to clean, calibrate, and replace the toner cartridges, but this printer is more of a common office printer than anything else.
I can get neutral colors while printing from a Mac, but Windows somehow throws a color shift into my prints.
I commonly use printer profiles attached to PhotoShop files to get them to print correctly on certain printers, but I don't see any profile options when exporting from InDesign to a PDF.
Thanks again.

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siri3 wrote:
What am I doing wrong?
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Sorry in advance for the novelette. I am absolutely mystified and frustrated and would love some help! I've been working on this problem for about 30 hours over the last 4 days to figure out what the heck is happening and cannot find an answer through various forms of research.
Basically, when I print a JPEG, I am getting this area (a box) of darker shaded coloring around my heart and love text. I've tested it a million different ways and am at a loss as to what the problem is ... is it an application problem, a color profile problem between my applications and printer, an improper way that I saved my file, etc.
Here is a photo I took of the image printed out (so it is slightly skewed from camera distortion):
The details:
(1) I create graphic art and sell it online. I save all of my printable art as JPEG files because of my customer base (diy hobbyists that print on their home printers without much knowledge base nor graphic design software).
(2) I use both Adobe Illustrator (AI) and Photoshop Elements 11 (PSE11) to design and save my artwork.
(3) I insert JPEG images into Microsoft Word 2003 documents to "test print" since most of my customers use home printers to print. Since most people have this basic software, it is a good gauge of the kind of print out they might get using the same or similar software.
(4) My PSE11 color profile setting is the default sRGB. I have test printed many times and I get the truest colors with this color profile.
(5) My AI color settings are normally also an sRGB color mode, but on occasion, I use a CMYK color mode if I am creating a larger document that I know the customer will need to take to a professional printer to print out.
(6) I do my home printing (for proofs) on an Epson Stylus Photo 1400 (which has the 6 color ink cartridges).
(7) Until this printing problem occurred on this test print out, I always used the "photo enhance" option when I designate settings for my printer via the Microsoft Word documents.
IMPORTANT: This is when I have the color shift?? or color rendering issues?? and it is the only time. If I use the regular ICM/ICC color profile of sRGB, the printing issue doesn't occur. Instead, I have a solid color background instead of this one with the strips of lighter color on the top and bottom. However, I can't control how the customer prints, so I need to feel confident that whatever color profile setting they use, they will not run into this problem. I even test printed the documents over at FedEx and the darker box/color shift did not occur.
(8) The document in question only has 3 sets of objects: the heart, the solid colored rectangle colored background and the text. All 3 objects are vectors, they are at 100% opacity and there are no "special effects" applied.
(9) The image was entirely created in AI this time and exported as a maximum quality JPEG file, although you will see below that I tried many ways to create and save the file so that I didn't have the color band borders on top/bottom.
(10) I regularly use AI for part of my art, then I drag it to my PSE11 open document and it becomes a Vector Object (it cannot by copying/pasting into a PSE11 document). I also regularly export AI images as PNG files, then insert them into an open PSE11 document. This printing issue has not occurred until recently. Here is an example of a very complex AI image I created, then inserted into PSE11 just to add the background (the Teddy Bear and books are AI vector objects) that were exported as PNG files then inserted into PSE11 to integrate with the background image - I test printed with Photo Enhance and had no printing issues:
So, from the research I have done, it looks like it is a color rendering or color space issue with conflicting color profiles in the same document. I checked my color profile settings and both sRGB and CMYK were set to embed ICC color profiles.
I tried changing AI settings to Preserve Numbers (ignore linked profiles) for CMYK, but that didn't work.
I also checked and made sure that not only the document setup showed the sRGB color profile, but that all the objects within the document also were converted to sRGB as well for consistency. That didn't work.
I tried converting the document to CMYK along with the vector objects. That didn't work.
I tried saving the heart image as a PNG file alone, the "love" text as a PNG file alone, both the heart and text together as a PNG files alone. Once saved as PNG files, I inserted them into an open empty PSE11 document - as I normally do. I then added the background color I wanted. That didn't work - the print still showed the color changes.
I tried dragging each vector object separately and even as a group and got the same color change issue when printing.
I tried "expanding" and "outlining" the text before exporting as JPEG, before exporting as a PNG and before dragging as a vector object into PSE11. Expanding the text did not help the situation.
I tried exporting as Adobe PDF, then opening in PSE11, then resaving as JPEG. That didn't work.
I tried flattening transparency (even though there is no transparency in the AI file). That didn't work.
I tried rasterizing the image. That didn't work.
Thinking that the file might be corrupt, I started from scratch and redesigned the same heart and love text. Unfortunately, I had the same problem as before. At this point, my AI started becoming buggy and would not open new files. It happened repeatedly and I decided it was best to uninstall and reinstall AI (and maybe that would fix the problem).
I created just the heart in AI, then inserted it into an open PSE11 document (both after exporting as PNG and also by dragging as Vector Object from AI). It seemed to work. I could both drag the vector into PSE11 from AI and export from AI as a PNG, then insert into open PSE11 document with a background color - and it printed a solid background.
So, I thought that reinstalling and setting back to defaults worked. But, then I added the love text around the heart and tried exporting as JPEG files and the same problem continued to recur. Whether I dragged as a Vector object into PSE11 (the heart object and love text separately and also another time with the vector objects dragged as a group) or saved them as PNG files and inserted into PSE11 - I got the different shades of color on what should be a solid background. I even tried saving the PSE11 as a PSD file first, then resaving as JPEG and I tried saving as PNG and printing and this didn't help solve the problem.
I really think it is some color conflict issue but I can't figure it out. I am definitely not very knowledgeable about color profiles and how to sync all my devices, however, as I mentioned, this was not an issue until recently (and I think??? I recall changing the CMYK setting from Preserve Numbers to embed color profile a month or so ago - however, it should have been solved when AI went back to its defaults upon reinstall).
The reason I believe it is a color rendering/color space issue is because I could see the color output when I saved the JPEG with CMYK color profile versus sRGB color profile and the sRGB colors were much richer, not surprisingly. The top and bottom colors matched the sRGB printout and the middle darker box section matched the CMYK printout.
I am sure it is something fundamental or simple and I am completely overlooking it. I wish it were just a transparency issue, because people know how to fix or do workarounds for it. But, there are no vector objects with any transparency ...
If I missed some detail, I apologize. Any help would be a dream come true at this point! lol
Thank you!

Okay, I got motivated to try again. From doing a bit more research on troubleshooting AI printing problems, the Adobe article talks about print drivers. It was advised to uninstall and reinstall the print driver if the printing issue persists. So, I did. Unfortunately, I still had the same result after reinstalling and trying a test print! Ugh.
So, as Jacob said upfront, I seem to have an overactive print driver that is trying too hard (and it is a non-postscript printer which I realize is part of the problem).
There are so many variables in my situation as to how I create art and save/export art. I sometimes work solely in AI, sometimes solely in PSE and sometimes I use both programs to create. Consequently, I will:
(1) export directly from AI as JPEG if I am not adding PSE11 artwork.
(2) export directly from AI as PNG if I plan on inserting that image into PSE11 to add to artwork I have created in PSE11.
(3) drag vector objects as a Smart Objects directly from AI to PSE11 to add to artwork I am creating in PSE11 if I know I will playing with the vector object and resizing in PSE11.
So, I did a test print using scenario 2, where I inserted the heart and love text PNG (AI created vector object) into an old PSE11 document. This old document already had a vector object from AI with a solid background and I knew it printed correctly. So, after inserting this new PNG from AI into this old document, it printed correctly using the photo enhance mode.
However, I haven't had a chance to actually create new art in the older AI files (that I know print properly), resave as something else and try another test print (either by exporting as JPEG and printing in Word or by exporting as PNG file and inserting into PSE11 document, then saving as JPEG and printing in Word).
After testing the different possibilities of ICM settings within my printer, I found that the JPEG images printed out with the truest colors and best quality if I simply selected "no color management" from the printer. Shocker, huh? lol
MY SOLUTION: So, what I think I will simply do is add an instruction sheet with the printables I sell, explaining that the color profile setting should never be handled by the printer so make sure to turn off color management by printer (and if they feel they must use the printer for color management, make sure the setting is sRGB since I embed that color profile in my JPEG's).
Edited to add: Since my issue was never about how I could print a successful image (I knew I could simply change the color profile settings), but rather about how to make sure that customers would get consistent and high quality print outputs of my digital images, this seems like the best approach.
I don't think I will every really know exactly why I am now getting color shifts in the "photo enhance" mode when I did not have this problem a couple months ago - applying the same methods of creating artwork. I was concerned that I was saving/exporting using incorrect or mismatched color settings or something of that nature. However, since I went through the process of making my color spaces the same for everything, and I still have issue, clearly that is not the culprit. The only thing I can do to solve the problem and it is a straightforward solution anyway -> is to educate the buyer on how to print successfully (don't use photo enhance! ha ha).
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in and offered advice!

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Grrr!
I'm having the same issues as people above and as on some similar threads.
First, I've color managed for awhile. Beginning with calibrated monitors, Photoshop's "View" menu settings, my color space ...
I know not to double color manage, and I choose to manage through Photoshop. I've reinstalled everything and read these boards and other threads on the web.
Here are my problems.
I am getting severe color shift and cannot get an accurate print. I've spoken with Epson ($$) and Adobe. All fingers point to Apple. Going through the printing process, everything is fine until soft proofing before hitting the final print button. That preview ALWAYS shows a shift in color if any color management has been applied. (I just tested an image without any color management and there still is a shift.)
Today I trying to print blue hydrangeas for a town project; they are shifting toward magenta. Last week I worked on a town-wide Relay for Life (ACS fundraiser); night-time images with candles ... shifted green. (Again, my with calibrated monitors.)
Ironically, when I was on 10.3.7 I didn't have any trouble. After that it's been roulette. I have an Apple Care contract and called Apple. Understanding that not every rep knows the ins and outs of color management, I asked him to forward an email to someone who can help me.
Grrr. I was told that since Photoshop and Epson are not Apple products they can't help me. Surely, web searches show that this is known problem. (Some suggest trashing Apple's Generic RGB profile ...)
Can ANYONE at Apple help? Please? Isn't that what an Apple Care contract should do?
I have 20 (different) prints due to a family by tomorrow. I have an additional 150 prints due by Thursday. Am I expected to borrow someone's Windows PC and use it to send the image to my printer?
(Also, I've installed several icc profiles in the past, but can't install any currently. I'm trying to install Museo and Arches profiles.
What is happening? Newer profiles don't show up in the print driver's "Print Settings," "Media Type" pull down menu, no matter where I try to load the newer icc profiles.)
G4 - 1.5 GHz Power PC Laptop Mac OS X (10.4.7) OS 10.4.7; Epson 2200; Photoshop CS2; plus other peripherals not relevant to this issue.

Looking for a better solution to the "Save for web" color shift issue

Ok, everyone who has fussed much with photoshop and "Save For Web" knows about the color shift issue. If you want your colors to look right after you "save for web", you have to work in the sRGB colorspace, and have Proof Colors checked (soft proofing on) and the proof color setup set to Monitor RGB, otherwise what you get looks terrible when displayed in a browser.
But of course if you are editing for print, this is exactly what you DON'T want to do. Well, I work in both. In fact, often the same images, and I want them to appear as close as reasonably possible in both print and web formats, and without a lot of fussing on my part. And I'm pickiest about the print mode, since I have the most control there, so that's the way I want to edit by default.
Nothing new here.
Now comes the interesting part (in my mind, anyway). Obviously there is a known remapping -- because PhotoShop DOES it when you select Proof Colors. So the inverse mapping must also be known (with some gamut issues, but I'm not concerned with those, because, after all, I'm VIEWING it on a monitor anyway!). What I want is a plug-in that automatically applies that inverse mapping so that, when I do a Save For Web, I end up with the colors I've been viewing all the time when setting the shot up in print mode. Then, too, I don't have to worry about what mode I'm in when I'm editing -- it just fixes it when doing a save-for-web.
Again, I want to edit in my normal print mode (typically ProPhoto colorspace, and with soft-proofing off or set to the printer/medium combination I expect to use), then do a single operation (might be a multi-step action) to "screw up" my colors so that when I then do a "Save-For-Web", the resulting image, when viewed on the average color-stupid browser, looks like the image I've been seeing in Photoshop.
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My display is a Dell U2410. It has several presets, including sRGB and Adobe RGB. I've been using sRGB.
On my OLD system, (Win XP, PsCS2, DwCS4) there seems to be no distinction between color managed and non color managed apps, even on this wide gamut display. I could capture (digital camera) in Adobe RGB, open and edit in PsCS2, save as .psd, convert to CMYK for print, or convert to sRGB for SFW. All images looked identical and they printed and displayed perfectly. I thought this was normal, and seemed logical. This also seems to be the source of my incorrect assumptions. I was trying to get my new machine to behave like my old one.
So I get this new machine (Windows 7, PsCS5, DwCS5) and now (still in sRGB display mode) all color managed apps appear de-saturated. Non color managed apps are OK. If I switch the display to Adobe RGB, color managed apps are OK, but non color managed apps are way too saturated. From my investigation, I believe this is normal behavior on a wide gamut display. I've tried changing the Control Panel > Display > Screen Resolution > Advanced settings > Color Management options, but to no avail. Either I'm missing something, or Windows 7 is doing color management differently.
It seems my only option now is to use Adobe RGB display setting for Ps, etc. and switch to sRGB for Dw and non color managed apps. Or, have 2 separate files for print and web. I've Googled 'til my eyes are numb and still not sure I'm getting this. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.
Finally, I don't see an edit function here, so I can't remove my previous incorrect reply. Moderator, please feel free to do so.
Thanks

Solution to Gamma/Color Shift Problems with Apple Codecs - Adobe BUG

Hi....
In AfterEffects when choosing an output module and that module be ProRes or 10 Bit Uncompressed,
when trying to color manage the file, there is a fine line called
'This Codec Does Not Support Output Profile'
You can find it int he Color Management Pane of the output module....
Funny thing is - That Profile Embedding IS support by:#
Apple's Compressor and THE CODEC 4444 AND UnCompressed
Episodes Encoder
See following Screen Shots:
First one from Apple's Compressor...
Look at that little beautiful Color Option... Adobe did you MISS that one, perhaps...
You must have - because your APPS are NOT including that when encoding or should I say
butchering movie files....
Here adobes famous but wrong dialog!!!!
And in this next screen shot you can easily see that adobe just strips the color profile out of the file...
AND THAT IS WHY THERE IS A COLOR SHIFT...........
left image = Apple's Compressor Encoding (Colors match of course) - Right Adobe's BRUTAL encoding (Colors WONT match...)
Now, in after effects you wont notice the shift. But ALL mac and PC users using quicktime to watch YOUR movies
are going to be looking at a movie with a different look than you thought it WOULD be... Courtesy of adobe ;-)
Jokes aside, Adobe.... It seems as if this one is on you to fix... Apple's Compressor has NO problems. And other encoders are also preserving those values.
Now... Let us assume that I encode in compressor... Looks are matching 100% that of the original source. All it takes to mess that up is ONE
roundtrip to after effects, premiere pro or Media Encoder. That is if I wanna maintain my initial choice of transcodec - in my case 4444 or 10bit Uncomp.
I could of course export to animation and then use compressor AGAIN to transcode to my format of choice... But in the long run I think that will become tedious.
Perhaps you could assign a few engineers on this one and in the future spend MORE time on living up to the name PRO(The most misused word in the software business) instead of wasting time generating new Application icons for your apps....
Thanks for reading and for a PROMPT and near-future BUG FIX

Mylenium wrote:
It's not really "embedding" anything, it merely sets the QT color space flags which have been there forever, but are mostly unused. Specific to ProRes it also toggles different internal optimizations in the encoding. That's also documented somewhere on the QT developer pages. I'm not sure I share your views otherwise. The point really is, that Apple developed ProRes just as much as a closed workflow within their products as Avid did with their CoDecs. Therefore the widespread use of the CoDecs is merely a byproduct of the use of the products, but not per se an intended workflow outside of those and, which is the more important part, also not explicable as a causal circumstance of the quality. If I may be so bold: What you are saying sounds like everyone would be using the Animation CoDec because it is so good, when the simple fact is that there are no decent free cross-platform alternatives and people are willing to accept limitations because of that. Don't get me wrong, ProRes is well designed and pretty robust, but the world doesn't come to an end without it and outside the Mac world it is difficult to deal with. Hell, it's even difficult to deal with between different versions of FCP occasionally...
Mylenium
I have been testing codecs for a long long looooooong time. My criterion(s) are:
1) Image Quality and that through multiple encoding generations and color grading
THEEEN
a looooong way down the road
2) Performance
BTW - I find that working with files less compressed and thus HUGE is much better. Hard drives are so cheap that one can build himself an 8 Disk RAID0 and that takes care of everything. In PPRO I can cut real time in FulRes with an uncompressed codec with the processors maxing at 3% while the H264 editing sequence will stutter like a drunken wasp and maxing the CPUs at 63%.... Go figure...
ProRes 4444's impeccable imageQuality:performance ratio, is unbeaten.
Especially on H264 material like that of the Canon5D. You might say if the source is 4:2:0 why bother upping it to 4444... Well in theory perhaps
it is overkill. But rather than reading in theoretical white papers I conduct my own tests. And the end results are (REALITY) and way different from what theory states. TO anyone reading this. DONT believe ANYTHING you read about codec nor what I am saying.... DO YOUR OWN TESTING and judge for yourself. Problem is that you have to do 100's and 100's of transcodings with ONE source to various destinations with lost of grading and transcoding generation. THEN you have to keep track of your tests and THEN compare them. It takes WEEKs. But it is well worth while it. In my case... I start with a Canon5DMKII H264 movies. Transcode it to PRORES4444 then I do LOTS of compositing and re-encoding then lots of color grading etc etc etc. Then I export back to H264 - and the end result is STUNNING has NO artifacts and is adorable to look at. Not so with at least 6 other codecs claiming to be top-notch....
Sure Mylenium, the world would NOT end with PR4444 not in it... BUT the WORLD has ALREADY decided that it WANTED ProRes4444 in it. It is growing and that every day..........
Had the codec not been so darn excellent - it would NOT have been used. Period.

PDF Color Shift On Windows Platform

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