PE4 File Export giving wrong field order

In PE4, when I execute File-Export with the following settings:
General/File Type: Microsoft DV AVI
Video/Compressor: DV PAL
Keyframe and Rendering/Fields: Upper Field First
It creates the AVI OK, but GSPOT shows that the AVI is Lower Field First, not Upper Field First as specified in the settings.
Why? Is this a bug or does selecting DV force LFF (if so, then why isn't the UFF option greyed out in the settings?).
What I am trying to do is create some smaller sub-projects in the form of AVI's, which I will eventually import into a final large project. The source files for the subprojects are mpgs from an HD camcorder, so they are Upper Field First (UFF), and so I am using the PAL Harddisk project preset, which expects source files to be UFF.
Since my final project will include both UFF mpgs and those AVI subprojects, I want the AVIs to be UFF also, so that I don't have to selectively reverse field orders etc.
Is this wrong?
Thanks
Dave

==> "You can even use Premiere Elements for the conversion by applying field order reversal and then exporting to DV-AVI."
Splitting hairs I know, but again to clarify for me:
For the initial conversion to DV-AVI, if I start a project in PE4 with a UFF preset, bring in my UFF mpgs, then export to DV-AVI (WITHOUT applying field order reversal), is this doing the same as what you suggest? That is, in this case, the field reversal is taken care of by PE4 behind the scenes because I told it to do so by using a UFF preset? Or do I still need to manually reverse the fields?
Sorry to be dense, but there seems to be many ways to do the same thing, and I'm trying to figure out the simplest and least error prone way to do it.
Dave

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Need to setup Premiere CS6 sequence for two file types with different field orders

I have a client who has shot video for me using two cameras, one camera was set to progressive, and the other to interlaced upper field first. I need to use both file types in the edit and have been struggling to set up the sequence to get the best look for the end product, a DVD. I have several videos to do for her that were all shot in the same way, so I need a solution!
I would appreciate help figuring out how to set up this work flow from beginning to end.
Should I convert one of the files from the beginning so they match field orders before going into a sequence? Or do I just need to do some adjusting of the files once they are in the sequence? Is it just as simple as changing the transcode settings to favor the upper field first? I'm definitely having issues once the video is transcoded in Encore and you can see a lot of jagged edges and lines especially during movement. My client isn't happy and I've tried several workarounds, but to no avail.
Here are the two file types I have:
File extension: .MOV
H.264, 1920x1080, Linear PCM, 16 bit little-endian signed integer, 48000 Hz, stereo
FPS 29.97
No Fields: Progressive Scan
File extension: .MTS (my Mac finder can't read these files, but they are read in Premiere)
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Frame Rate: 29.97
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - 6 channels
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Upper Field First
I am using Adobe Premiere CS 6.0.2
Encore 6.0.1
Media Encoder 6.0.2.81
I am running it on an iMac 27-inch, Mid 2011
with Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5
Processor 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1024 MB
I've just been setting the sequence to match the .MOV files since they look much better than the .MTS files. I've done the opposite as well, setting the sequence to match the .MTS files and it doesn't seem to help. I've also changed the field order of the files once they are in the sequence by changing the field options and have tried converting the .MTS files in the Media Encoder, but nothing I've done has worked.
Any help would be so appreciated! The client I have is a photographer, so she wasn't aware of this issue when she first shot these videos. So I have 10 videos with these issues I need to get back to her, hopefully issue free! I'm struggling as an editor because my last job I was using FCP and was working with videographers who knew what they were doing, so I've never faced such problems before. Plus I'm new to the Adobe software. Not a good combination. Please forgive me if I didn't give all the information you need. I will happily respond with whatever more information you may need to help me out!
~KTrouper

I wonder if you could do your edit ignoring any visual issues of the interlaced footage but keeping the different sources separate ( checkerboard edit Vid 1/ Vid 2 )
Lock it down then export the interlaced part of the edit as a Digital Intermediate.
Maybe Export the other source as well to the same codec. DI
Bring them back together in a New Sequence. You wold have to deal with the black spacing.

Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.

I just got CS5 Production Premium and an EVGA GTX 465, which is basically a GTX470 with less CUDA cores (352 instead of 448). I added the card to the list in the Premiere CS5 txt file (the so called hack) and everything seems to work perfect except for one thing. When I play back interlaced footage that I shot with either of my two AVCHD cameras (Canon HF100 and Panasonic AG-HMC40), the footage in the TV set (which is setup as my second monitor) will play with the fields in the right order but after a few seconds it will start playing as if it were progressive, or as if the fields were in the wrong order. Then, eventually, it will go back to play the fields in the right order, and then the wrong order, and go back and forth like that. It switches every ten or twenty seconds. This happens both when the footage is played back in the source window and in the timeline.
Thanks to the GPU acceleration, it plays smoothly always even with added effects and even with different tracks at different opacity levels (I tried three tracks, one at 25%, another at 50% and the other at 100% and it played without skipping a frame), but I don't understand why it doesn't always send the right field order. I wonder if it has anything to do with the cable that goes to the TV set, since it's DVI on the end that I connect to the video card, and HDMI on the other end. Regardless of that, I purchased the cable from Monoprice and it's a very thick, well shielded cable. The card comes with a mini HDMI output, but the cable that comes with it is not long enough to reach the TV. Still, I'm not sure that it would make a difference.
Is this happening to any of you? Could this be a problem with the card itself, with my footage, or with Premiere?
Note: I had switched the "Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration" to "Compatibility mode" in the Nvidia control panel and it didn't make a difference in anything related to CS5, whether it's this particular problem or anything else.

JSS1138 wrote:
We should probably just get the details, instead of speculation on what hardware is being used.
Oh, the system is pretty fast, but Premiere always took a huge toll when external preview was enabled, it was like that in CS3 and CS4 as well. But here are my system specs just in case:
AMD 1090T @3.8 Ghz (stable)
16 GB of DDR3 G.Skill RAM
Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5
Western Digital 1.5 Gb Black Edition (as one of the video drives, the OS drive is a standard WD)
EVGA GTX465 1 GB
So while this may not be the fastest computer in the world, it's more than fast enough for HD, with 6 cores and 16 GB of RAM.
This is something that's either wrong with Premiere's design, but maybe there's a workaround, which is what I'm trying to get to. I've been trying many things in the "Manage 3D" section of the Nvidia control panel, but nothing seems to work. VSync on or off, Triple Buffering, etc, etc, the problem is still there.
Obviously if I right click on the monitor window and instead of "Both Fields" I choose either first or second field, I get just that, but I don't see why do I have to edit interlaced video with just one field instead of both.

CS 5.5 | Wrong field order without XMP

When I export my sequence to PAL DV MPEG2, which is lower field, it imports fine later if XMP is still in a folder.
However, if XMP is deleted and you import the same file into Premiere it recognizes it as upper field first.
As I heard this does not happen with Premiere CC. Can this be fixed in 5.5 too please?
We are working often with mpeg files and it's frustrating to switch field order on all imported files.

Have no idea why PP would do this.
You can flip fields in the Project Window in one go by selecting them all and changing it with Interprete footage.
Why would you export to mpeg2 and then importing it back in PP for editing. Such qualityloss.

What do I need to know about field order and HDV?

I keep seeing field order options in FCP and DVDSP and Compressor etc.
Can anyone point me to any resources that will help me understand things a little better?
I'm editing HDV in FCS.
Thanks
Miller.

Field dominance (actually field order) is a function of how video is recorded.
Each frame of interlaced video is made up of two fields. They are recorded in sequence. At NTSC std video (~30fps) the frames are recorded 1/60th of a second apart.
We will call the first field recorded: #1 and the second field: #2.
To play back correctly you need to play the fields in the order they were recorded
if done correctly it would look like this
1-2 1-2 1-2
if the fields are reversed (by using the wrong field order setting) you would get
2-1 2-1 2-1
This yields a jerky, strobe like playback as the fields are being played not in the order they were recorded.
HDV records the Upper field first in each frame and so is termed Upper Dominant
DV record the Lower field first in each frame and is termed Lower Dominant
Questions? There will be a quiz on Monday. And NO, it is not open book.
Cheers,
x

Export QuickTime Movie shifts field order

In august I finished grading a project and made a QT Prores 422 master file for the client to have delivered on a hard drive.
The client has kept quiet until now about an issue - the field order seems to be wrong. I couldn't believe my ears when he told me that. The timeline is lower (even) while the QT file he had received is Upper (odd).
I selected 5 seconds of the timeline and exported using CMD+E, and it says "Setting: current settings". So I thought it would be lower field as the timeline - but no - it comes out as upper, every single time.
How does this happen? Do I really have to make a conversion through compressorr?!

The following settings are the same for the prepped timeline and the one that came back from Color
*Sequence settings*
720x576 PAL Anamorphic 16:9
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422
*Item Properties*
Frame Size: 720x576
Anamorphic: Yes
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
However, I think I nailed it. Gonna do some further testing to make sure though... In the Export to QuickTime Movie window, I found that I can select some other setting, using ProRes 422 PAL Anamorphic for instance. And as far as I know - PAL is always lower field, and it seemed to work for the first test I did.

HDV to DVD interlace field order - depends on export path!

Summary: Export... -> Using Compressor versus compressing an Export... -> QuickTime Movie file, produces different field orders in the resulting MPEG.
In Detail: Here is my HDV to DVD (MPEG2) process;
Create a DV sequence, and drop the HDV into it, it gets resized, and has a filter to shift the fields by +1 added to it, and is scaled to the correct size for 4:3 (letterboxed) or 16:9 (fills 720x480) - which is fine.
Set the Quicktime Video Compressor for the sequence to 'None', and set the Video Processing -> Motion Filtering Quality to 'Fastest (linear)' as I don't like what Normal or Best does to the image (makes it pixally, check in the canvas).
Now, if you Export -> Using Compressor, and setup a 2-pass mpeg 2 encode, you get a very good image, no via - DV artifacts. I also add the channel blur, set to 1 on all channels, if its too sharp - channel blur does not blur between fields, like flicker filter does, so the motion is not compromised, and looks excellent, but it stops sharp still images from flickering.
However, this is really slow, FCP is tied up, and for a 2 pass encode, any blur or colour filters get applied twice, its also harder to hand this off to a second machine to get on with.
So, logically, you would instead, Export... -> QuickTime Movie... -> Current Setting, Make Self Contained and then load that into Compressor, apply the SAME settings you did Using Compressor... At which point, the FUN begins.
I have finally narrowed down, that this changes the field order, although I nearly went mad discovering it - every time I thought my little 10 second test worked, (exported from the timeline) I would save the whole thing out and compress it, only to find, the interlace order changed, and now needed the field shift removed! And, because my little test worked, I would then do the whole thing, some 20+ hours later, only to find it was wrong!
Export... -> Using QuickTime Conversion... is the same as QuickTime Movie...
Anyone else with experience of this ? It was maddening! But I think I am over the worst of it now! Is there any solution for unifying this for all export methods ?
When it works DVD's encoded from HDV look amazing.
When it works.....
FCP 5.0.4
Compressor 2.0.1
PowerBook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Hi Ben,
Ignore the Apple-0 (zero) part - that's just the key shortcut for the sequence settings. (press the Apple Key, and a Zero key with a sequence selected)
So, from the top: (although I'm not in front of my machine right now, so this is from memory)
Create a new DV sequence, 4:3 or 16:9.
Drop the edited HDV sequence into the DV sequence.
De-select the HDV sequence in the DV time line, bring up the Sequence Settings Dialogue for the DV sequence. (make SURE it isn't the sequence setting dialogue for the HDV sequence)
In the sequence setting dialogue, change the codec from DV to None (note - not the same as Uncompressed). If it's currently HDV, you have the wrong sequence, leave it as HDV, close the dialogue, and bring up the setting for the DV sequence.
On the 'Video Processing' tab, for the DV sequence, set the 'Motion Filtering Quality' to 'Fastest (linear)'
Choose OK to close the settings dialogue.
If you want to, and it depends on your footage, add the following blur filter to the HDV sequence in the DV timeline:
Select the HDV sequence in the DV timeline, right click (or hold ctrl key, and click) on the HDV sequence in the DV timeline, and choose the top item in the pop-up menu, 'Open' (in viewer). Click the filters tab of the viewer, you will see the Shift Fields filter, set to +1, added by FCP, add the channel blur, above the shift fields filter. Set the blur to 1 on each channel. I prefer this to the Video -> Flicker Filter, as channel blur does not blur between fields, so it does not blur motion.
I discovered this by accident
Now Save, the following sometimes crashes FCP. Check it in the Canvas viewer, set to 100%, with the channel blur, around text and sharp contrast areas, you get a nice soft blur, turn off that filter if you think its too much.
On to the encoding:
The simplest step, is to choose the DV timeline, and export via compressor. Pick a 2 pass MPEG preset, that matches the 4:3 or 16:9 of the sequence, and submit. This takes a while, on slower machines.
The alternative, which can reduce the time, is to export the DV sequence as an uncompressed QuickTime file - this does not change the quality at all - but can speed things up, because FCP is quite slow at delivering frames to Compressor, compared to Compresser just reading the frame from an uncompressed file, Compresser has to read them twice for 2 pass MPEG encoding. However, you need a lot of fast disk space to store the uncompressed footage.
Hope this helps.
Keep the replies / mail on these boards, that way they stay useful to all!
It was great weekend in Vancouver, wasn't it ?
Hit the beach on Sunday, good times

Error in file export when order of elements in build array changes

Hi everyone,
A while ago I wrote a vi file which does the following:
At first it initializes a camera and chooses a region of interest (ROI). Data out of the ROI will be discarded.
Then it raster scans a motor stage in x and y direction, in bidirectional mode (meaning that x alternates between scanning from left to right and right to left as y is inreased).
For each point of the scan, the spectrum is collected, which is then integrated in lambda to give an idea of the total intensity.
Then the intensity is plotted, along with the spectrum at each point.
The final results are exported in a text file.
The problem:
If I flip the order of the wires in the "build array" before the file export, placing the Total Count (intensity) wire in place of the Spectrum wire, the file export fails. What I mean by "fails" is that the .txt file contains characters that look like chinese!
Why is that?
I attach my .vi as well as two screenshots which demostrate the problem.
Solved!
Go to Solution.
Attachments:
correct.png ‏182 KB
Wrong.png ‏180 KB
1.7z ‏119 KB

mikeporter wrote:
Hey Jeff... The changes you recommend are all good (and necessary) but the thing I'm stuck on is that regardless of what happens to the floating point data, there's that built-in VI that changes it to string representations of the numbers. And as I understand it, that is where the problem is.
Mike...
PS: Coming to NI Week?
Not this year
What scared me was the sgls on a SLs with no wire branch to force a data copy which, would force LabVIEW to preserve the sgls since the SL might need to be used again then, they get all mixed up building arrary out of mixed coerced sgls and dbls. With the potential of a miss-reussed buffer (not uncommon in 2011) confusing the string operations in the write to spreadsheet. The problem of course, must exist outside of write to spreadsheet file since it only exhibits with a build array element order change. Or, we all are halucinating (Possible alternate theory)
Jeff

File -- Export in oracle apps forms- headings missing and order incorrect

We have a custom form for our custom billing processes. It lists all the draft invoices that are ready to be released along with multiple custom fields. When the user tries to export the data in this form, tsv file is saved.
We have the following issues with the file.
-- We have some fields missing
-- Some column headings are missing
-- Fields are not exported in the right order
Can someone help how we can fix these 3 issues?
Thanks!

I recommend you post your question in the General EBS Discussion forum since you are using Standard EBS functionality to export your Form data.
Craig...

Import files change their field order

This happens quite alot when I import a .mov which I have created in Motion (with field order set to none) when I import the file into FCP browser FCP always displays it as having fields even though my FCP sequence settings are also set to none in the field order.
I have noticed this with Livetype files also.

What are your sequence setting, and your export settings in Motion?
Motion doesn't necessarily default to the project settings on export.

Field order issues after export to DV Pal from uncompressed

We are experiencing some difficulty exporting clips from FCP to our Omneon Server for TX.
We are capturing 8 bit uncompressed (AJA and Blackmagic) from digibeta for our edit and all editing stays in uncompressed until final output. Our transmission system demands DV PAL files so we export finished items as DV PAL in FCP and drop onto the server
Our problem is that on playback from the server, the field order is incorrect. Although the exported DV clips properties show lower field order, the clip is obviously playing upper field first. If we capture and edit in DV and export the DV file to the server, then we have no problems. I have tried
exporting uncompressed clips to DV via Compressor and changing the field order in frame controls but no success. It seems that when a clip is captured and edited in upper field it hangs onto that status even after conversion to DV!! Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

when you drop one of your 8 bit uncompressed source clips into your DV PAL timeline, is FCP correctly adding the Shift Fields filer to those timeline instances?
do you edit in 8-bit uncompressed and then export direct to DV PAL or do you nest your 8 bit uncompressed sequence into a DV PAL sequence first and then export as Quicktime Movie w/ current settings? if not the latter, try it (and make sure your nest has the Shift Fields filter applied)

File -- Export in oracle EBS forms- headings missing and order incorrect

We have a custom form for our custom billing processes. It lists all the draft invoices that are ready to be released along with multiple custom fields. When the user tries to export the data in this form, tsv file is saved.
We have the following issues with the file.
-- We have some fields missing
-- Some column headings are missing
-- Fields are not exported in the right order
Can someone help how we can fix these 3 issues?
Thanks!

Please post the details of the application release, database version and OS.
Please see the links/docs referenced in this thread -- File -> Export Option Functionality is not working with CUSTOM 10g Form
Thanks,
Hussein

Exporting settings for H.264 "Field order & TV standart & Profile"?

So, in premiere CC, when exporting to H.264 format. There is these options in the video tab.
Field order & TV standart & Profile
I have 2 questions
What do they change in your video? and does it matter in this day & age?
(I know there the "leave mouse cursor on top of it, get yellow explaining box" but's its technical ciberish to me)

If working with 1080i, then Field Order does matter, and should be set to UPPER.
For 1080p or 720p, then of course it should be set to PROGRESSIVE.
You are correct that "NTSC or PAL" should not really apply when discussing HD formats, for the simple reason that NTSC and PAL refer specifically to standard definition broadcast standards. However, the terms have morphed into being used to differentiate between the NTSC and PAL framerates, being 29.97 and 25 respectively, which does still apply to HD formats.
As for the Profile setting, that depends on the mode of delivery, whether YouTube or Blu-ray or mobile device or whatever. I don't know of any general rule applying in that area. I just use Presets appropriate to my needs and leave the Profile as is, since the Adobe engineers ought to know the best setting for any given preset.
Thanks
Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers

Export Data Field Order

I've created a form with a number of text fields, pull downs, check boxes, etc. It is saved from Acrobat as a "Reader Extended PDF" so users can enter data and save.
When I use Acrobat to "Merge Data into Spreadsheet" the field order seems bizarre. It's not alphabetical and it's not based on the tab order.
Anyone know what determines the field order?
Thanks.

The order you see your fields in your hierarchy palette should be the order they come out in data unless you have them bound to a schema.
Kyle

Totally confused about mixing videos with different field orders.

I have PPcs5 on the pc.
I edit for many different shooters. As such I get everything: Progressive, upper field , lower field . Not to mention from a zillion different cameras & different resolutions.
I output 95% so far to dvd ntsc, 5% BR.
I get dv tapes on some & HD files also.Many times I get a mixure of both on each job. Also Iphone HD files too. Going crazy trying to fiquer out how to set up my sequence when I have upper field or progressive by themselves & also when they are mixed with lower field dv foot...Do I force everything into a lower field seq if going to dvd?
Do I have to deinterlace anything?
If I drag a clip to the new "create seq" icon, it will match the clips properties but is that correct if its a progressive only project or an Upper field project going out to dvd ntsc?
Do I need to RT click on the clips in the project window & "interpet Footage" & force it into a lower field there 1st? Is there a difference between setting up a seq to be played on a progressive DVD player hdmi to a prog TV as apposed to setting up a seq for a non hdmi or non progressive tv?
Does outputting to dvd automatically force it to lower field ?
If my seq isnt set up correctly I notice a big interlace problem when the cams pan from side to side, especially when there are multiple cams with different field orders. Have been unable to find any good discussions or articles on the topic.
How do you guys do it without going crazzzzzzzy?Are there rules? What are the rules? A rule book would really help:-) I Yern for the old DVCAM/DV days:-)

DV is always lower and HD is upper or progressive.
As you are having all fields in one timeline i would make it progressive.
Premiere does a good job in deinterlacing.
Only use Interprete footage when the footage is interprete wrong.
Set up a progressive timeline and drop everything in it. If a clip does not behave correctly you can change fields in the Field Options.
Export from Premiere and import into Encore. That is what i would do......

PE4 File Export giving wrong field order

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