Photo Color Consistency?

Could someone please tell me why when I view a photo in iPhoto it looks one way but if I drag that same photo out to the desktop and view it in preview it has a totally different coloring? I can't properly edit photos like this and it's making me nuts. iPhoto has them so much more saturated. I don't change the photo at all when I view it through preivew and yet I get two different results. Help!

At a guess - and it is a guess - this occurs because the Finder is not colour managed and iPhoto is. Check the same pic in Safari, which is also colour managed.
Regards
TD

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Hp 99 Photo Color cartridge won't fit h470

I purchased an H470 mobile printer.
In addition to the regular ink cartridges (Color 95 and Black 98) I also got the photo ink cartridges recommended (Gray 100 and Photo Color 99). The #100 cartridge fits fine, but the Color Ink Cartridge 99 will NOT fit, yet The package lists the H470 as a compatible printer for this cartridge.
Comparing the tops, the ridges at the top of the 99 Photo Color Cartridge are different from the 95. I feared breaking the thin plastic lever and stopped trying to install the cartridge.
What do I do now?
Thanks,
fladia
I purchased an H470 mobile printer.
In addition to the regular ink cartridges (Color 95 and Black 98) I got the photo ink cartridges recommended (Gray 100 and Photo Color 99). The #100 cartridge fits fine, but the Color Ink Cartridge 99 will NOT fit, yet the package lists the H470 as a compatible printer for this cartridge.
Comparing the tops, the ridges at the top of the 99 Photo Color Cartridge are different from the 95. I feared breaking the thin plastic lever and stopped trying to install the cartridge.
What do I do now?
Thanks,
fladia
This question was solved.
View Solution.

Here is some additional information from a previous post I wrote that explains the choices for color, photo and photo gray cartridges.
This can be simple or complicated depending on your threshold for "best" photo's. I will describe the various cartridges and their uses, then suggest a few options.
The 98 cartridge is pigmented black ink. It is used for printing text and some plain paper of inkjet paper graphics. It is not compatible with glossy photo paper and is not used for printing on these media. This will be the best choice for printing text.
The 95 cartridge is a tri color cartridge containing cyan, magenta and yellow dye based inks. It is suitable for printing on plain paper or photo media and can print respectable photos. When printing graphics the 95 cartridge may be used to print black in some modes because the dot size for the 95 cartridge is smaller than the 98, so the 95 can produce better looking grayscale graphics than the 98.
The 99 cartridge is a photo cartridge and is swapped with the 98. It contains light cyan, light magenta and photo black dye based inks. Unlike the 95 cartridge the 99 cannot produce the full range of colors by itself, it must be used with a 95 color cartridge. When printing photo's the 99/95 combination can give better results in light areas sugh as sky tones and faces. The results may be less grainy than when using the 95 cartridge by itself. While the 99 can be used to print text it will be a poor choice as the dye based ink is not as good on plain paper for printing text.
The 100 is a photo cartridge and is swapped with the 98. It contains dye based black, gray and light gray inks. The 100 cartridge can print excellent B&W prints by itself. When used with the 95 cartridge it can provide better detail in dark areas than the 95 by itself.
So... the suitable combinations would be as follows. I would suggest printing the same photo with different combinations to see if you find a difference or advantage for a particular application.
98/95 Best for text, best for all around printing. Best on plain paper. Respectable for photo's on photo paper. Unless you print a photo using one of the other combinations and compare side by side you may think they are perfectly fine. Most economical
99/95 Best for photo printing on photo paper. Less graininess than the 98/95 combination, this will be most noticeable in light areas such as facial or sky tones. Can be used for plain paper printing but not really optimum for this.
100/95 Best for B&W photo printing on photo paper or enhancing color prints. May be better detail then the 98/95 or 99/95 combination, especially in dark areas.
I have some 99 and 100 cartridges but rarely use then as I find the 98/95 combination to be suitable for my casual photo printing needs. I do notice a difference in photos put side by side from the different options, but given any one of them standalone it would look fine without a "better" option to compare with.
Bob Headrick, HP Expert
I am not an employee of HP, I am a volunteer posting here on my own time.
If your problem is solved please click the "Accept as Solution" button ------------V
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Color Consistency Across Macs and PCs?

We have an encoding and creative workflow that is entirely mac/FC Studio base, but authoring is done on a PC.
We have run into a very peculiar problem involving color shifting...
M2Vs and Still Images (Tiffs) are exported from Motion Projects using Compressor. The last frame of the m2v is identical to the Still Image.
When opened in quicktime the colors appear identical.
When brought into DVD studio pro and Authored, the jump from the M2V to the Still Image is seamless in terms of color.
Now when that M2V and Still Image is brought into our PC authoring Software, there is a noticeable shift in color between the two. The still image is significantly darker than the M2V. (A HUGE PROBLEM)
So the above is based on exporting a still image and an M2v from Motion Projects, what if we simply exported the last frame of the M2V from quicktime or compressor as a still image. SAME EXACT RESULTS.
Next I brought the M2V into After Effects and Exported the last frame as a Tiff. In DVD Studio Pro that Tiff appears significantly BRIGHTER than the M2V, but when brought over to our PC there is NO shift at all!!
For a number of reason our workflow can not accommodate a dependency on After Effects to provide us with color consistent Still Images for our PC Authoring Software.
Is there anyone out there, a guru in the ways of color management perhaps, that can lend some insight into how I can ensure that the Still Images I export from Quicktime/Final Cut Studio will not display a shift in color from the M2Vs on the PC?
Thank you so much,
ryan

Ryan,
Your issue is primarily related to gamma, and also related to color space conversion issues. If you search these very forums, and google, you will find extensive threads discussing this.
Managing gamma in a FCS-based post workflow that involves still images, multiple platforms, and multiple color spaces, requires special attention.
The various applications inside FCS deal with gamma and color spaces in different ways. There are a LOT of intricacies, from Final Cut's bypassing of ColorSync, to default gamma settings for RGB content, to DVDSP's handling of still image color space conversion. You'll need to sit down and spend some time building the knowledge you'll need to navigate the waters.
Start with these links, and go from there:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/colourandgamma/GammaFAQ.html
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93794
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7384256
http://creativemac.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=23956
The very short version of your problem is related to the fact that Mac uses a default display gamma of 1.8, and just about everything else in the world related to your video pipeline (including your PC) uses 2.2 to 2.5. It's more complex than that, but the links above will get into detail.
On the bright side, your problem is completely solvable once you learn the gamma side of things, and carefully maintain proper gamma from start to finish in the workflow.
-Matt

Color consistency from Photoshop to AI?

I created a new logo recently. All the text was created in Illustrator and one element (radio antenna waves) was built in Photoshop. I've set the color to PMS 464 but when I bring the 'waves' into AI, the color is darker. I've tried adjusting different settings in Photoshop, playing with transparency in AI, etc. Is there a color setting I've missed? Below is the web version with an 85% opacity on the waves, but you can see the difference in colors.
Thanks. Sarah

I have looked at is and the only conclusion I can come to is that using the pantone colors is a good idea for print and not a good idea for the web.
If you use the pantone colors then you have to turn on Overprint preview to see the proper output for press and you will see a pretty close match when you have overprint preview on.
If you try this for the save for the web you will get a very inconsistent color.
However if your only concern is color consistency and one of the objects is vector you can probably use the Edit>Edit Colors>Adjust Color Balance and Saturation to adjust the color.
I would say a wiser way to do this is to color the art in an rgb environment for the web and not use spot colors swatches that were designed to work in a cmyk for print.
If you turn on Overprint preview you will see what I mean, then though it is matched and you do a save for the web you will see the conversion is not working well for that environment
I would save the paths and use swatches you create yourself because this was not intended to work this way and is probably part of the problem.
Overprint preview will show you what you will get in print but the consistency for the web well I would say there is something wrong .
this shows what you can get with adjusting the colors and you will get this for save for the web by doing so this and if you don't adjust the colors but turn on overprint preview you get this as well
This is what you get without overprint preview turned on and what you would get for save for the web if you do not adjust the colors.
I have no idea why there should be so big a difference except to say they are going about this in the wrong way and it needs to be corrected.
There seems to be no reason for this to be. PMS 464 should be PMS 464 if it is in the same environment.
Now of course if one had it as rgb in photoshop and brought it into Illustrator for a cmyk document then there is going to a conversion which you might not like and if you create a cmyk document with art that was convert from rgb to cmyk in transport and are trying to match objects from the different applications that probably would not work.
I really do not know why this is happening in my opinion it is a bug. This is so long an explanation because I really do not have an explanation for it.
Perhaps someone else does.

Iphone 4, Trouble with photos coloration and flash strobing effect. Does anyone knows...?

Hi I am expiriencing following problems as per attached exhibits:
Photo coloration
When taking picture there is no problem. When pictures are downloaded the result however is this:
Exhibit A:
Than I am also having problem with flash strobing:
some time You are able to notice when taking picture or you see the preview:
Exhibit B:
Do any clever boffins know what is up? Preferable directly the Apple "geniuses"

Your profile says iPhone 4, is that correct? Do you have file extensions turned off in Windows Explorer? If so, when you turn them on, are you sure this is a jpeg file? If the image viewer cannot open it, then something is going wrong, as the image viewer can open most any kind of image file, including both jpeg and png.
For Exhibit B, I would say it could be a combination of the LED flash and the flourescent light that is causing the lines. It could just be out of sync from the electric 60Hz cycle of the flourescent light.
At first I would recommend a reset. Hold the sleep/wake and home buttons together until you see the Apple logo and then release. But one thing bothers me and that is the fact the Exhibit A picture looks good on the screen of the phone, but then displays this coloration on the computer, as well as giving you a file error. Not sure if that is an iOS issue, or a Windows issue.

Crazy photo colors in all aps except Photoshop

I have a dual G5 (with iiyama monitor) that I use with no problem in Photoshop. Colors display perfectly from all photo files and calibrate perfectly with printer. However, in Mail and iPhoto, the photo colors are super saturated-- psychodelic- looking-- making images totally useless. When I e-mail the files to my laptop, the colors display fine on the laptop and on my Powermac G4 -- Clearly, there is something wrong in the G5 settings, but have spent hours looking with no luck. ?? Thanks.
Dual G5 Mac OS X (10.4.6) iiyama monitor

Ok, did that and inserted a disk with images-- interestingly, the thumbnails all looked fine then the minute I dragged one into iPhoto, got the crazy colors again just like in my first account.
This is a software problem. All photos display fine in Photoshop. When using the "find" command in the finder, all images display ok when "found" and shown. All display ok in Preview thumbnail format AND some display fine when opened in Preview, but others are goofy when opened in Preview (even though their thumbnails are fine). In iPhoto everything is goofy: thumbnails and opened images.
I went back to Photoshop and examined the profiles: All the ones that are goofy when opened in Preview have EXIF profile data. All the ones that are ok when opened in Preview do not have EXIF profile data.
A support search turned up this mention of EXIF profiles and iPhoto issues:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303146
I really don't understand it, but tried using AppleScript menu/colorsync/remove profile command on some files then put them into iPhoto and bingo: they were fine. I also, then, found this discussion of the problem in the iPhoto forum: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1553791&#1553791
****** ME OFF that Apple would not make sure iPhoto plays well with others (espeically a player as big as Photoshop) before marketing it. Thanks for your concern and suggestions-- had I not followed them, I wouldn't have discovered the problem, always half-assuming it was hardware.

Color Consistency For Product Shots

I'm doing product shots for my wife's eBay sideline.
The problem I'm having is that I will take multiple shots of an item, and despite my best intentions the color will be slightly different in each shot (enough so that when placed side-by-side on a web page, it's clearly and amateurishly different).
Here's some details about what I'm doing:
I'm usually shooting in front of a large window so it's mostly natural light. Sometimes I'll use an overhead flash, but if I do, I do so for all shots. It's not like some shots include flash and some don't. So the lighting should be consistent.
I'm usually shooting against a full white background (or full black)
My white balance is set to Auto
My exposure is manual
I'll usually try to start the shoot with a shot of a gray card. Then in Lightroom, I'll set the white balance for that shot by sampling the gray, and then copy/paste that white balance develop setting to all other shots.
So other than perhaps the Auto WB setting, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong in the shooting to get different colors.
But that aside, this seems like something that should be fixable in LR, but despite copying the WB setting, I can't figure that out either.
What I would really like to be able to do is use the eyedropper tool on Image 1, then sample what should be the same color (but isn't) on Image 2 and say "LR, do whatever you need to in order to make the sampled color in Image 2 the same color as the sampled color in Image 1".

Gray cards (unless designed specifically to be so) are exposure guides, not color temperature guides. A white balance target would do you a better job.
The gray card is from Scott Kelby's Lightroom book, and he specifically mentions using it for color correction (actually, the technique for copy/pasting the WB settings gathered from the card is from his book, too).
Also, in the Lightroom manual, it says "Move the White Balance Selector into an area of the photo that should be a neutral light gray. Avoid spectral highlights or areas that are 100% white."
It is the color of the background that varies that gives it away in a grid of images.
When I get home, I'll try to attach some sample images. But in general, the backgrounds are pretty consistently solid white - it's the coloring on the product that's different. Depending on my time and how expensive the item is, I'll use Photoshop to ensure the background is 100% white.
Without a constant light source (window light changes over the course of time) you really can't depend upon copying and pasting the settings.
Yeah, I know. I'm trying to convince my wife to use her eBay profits to buy me a properly lit mini-studio, but until then, I'm stuck with what I have (referring to the situation, not my wife!). But also, the shots are usually within a few seconds of each other - it's not like the light is changing that much, at least not enough to account for the differences.
I have a feeling that it might actually have to do more with exposure. Like the color balance might be OK, but one shot is just underexposed and so the colors appear darker. But you'd think that the LR exposure controls would be able to do that, but so far I just can't get it dialed in.

Color consistency printing in Aperture 2.1, Epson R2880

I just got a new Epson R2880. After a lot of initial test printing, looking there, reading that, I have come to the conclusion that Aperture has a major issue with color management printing from it- I have been reading others with Epson R1800, R1900, R2100, R2200, R2400 and Canon Pixma 9500 having similar issues.
I realize I have to turn off the Epson color management, and that improved the printing, but it still looks like a muted sRGB print. When I print from Preview using the Epson sRGB or Epson Adobe if the photo has an Adobe profile or a wide gamut (16 bit tiff), I get much more accurate prints and the colors that I would expect to see. Reds are vibrant and so on.
From Aperture again, it's muted. So as far as I understand Aperture manages the colors for you and the Epson driver has to be turned off in color management, and set to the right paper. I think what needs to happen it hat we should be able to turn Aperture's color management off, and have Aperture send the data to the Epson driver, enable the Epson driver and let it do its job (we enable the Epson driver beforehand, before printing).
I have not been able to find a way to turn Aperture's color management off. This is a major workflow issue for me because I can't really print directly from Aperture which is not very good.
Any ideas?
- Raist

Raist,
First of all, thanks for giving notice that Epson has somewhat quietly introduced the replacement for the R2400 -- I had missed that.
Are you running Tiger, as your Profile info indicates? In Leopard, I see the same issues with properly setting up printing whether printing from Aperture 2, Photoshop CS3 or Pages. Conflict appears to result from allowing the printer to control printing vs the application.
My understanding is that if Color Management is selected, the printer and driver may ignore the color tweaking you have done, and based upon algorithms in the driver make its own adjustments -- this is not something I want to happen. In choosing the color profile in Aperture (done by selecting the paper type and quality) I achieve the better and consistent results. To get equal results from printing from Photoshop, the same settings must be used, but I find the Print Presets in Aperture much easier to accomplish this with. Recently I printed a photo from CS3 (because the final retouching required the use of layers) rather than Aperture, the first attempt was horrible simply because I forgot to turn off color management in the print dialogues.
Again, my understanding is that by selecting the proper Color Profile for the Epson paper being used, and by further turning off color management, you should expect the best, most proper, use of the Epson driver, managed from Aperture.
Ernie

Problem with photos' colors

Hi,
I have a problem with colors of photos which I'm using in a. InDesign document.
I've created a 20 page catalog, with first and last pages for the front and back of the cover. I placed one photo on the first page and second on the last page. When I opened them earlier on in Photoshop they were matching perfectly, so I figured that it will be the same in InDesign. When I placed them in Indesign it turned out that the photo on the first page has a different color saturation (lower) than the one on the last page. It looks as if the first page was converted to CMYK and the last page was still in RGB mode (the photos were initially in RGB).
I decided to change the color preferences of the photos in photoshop to CMYK and saved thm again for InDesign, but it didn't help (I also checked all of the doc and color preferences in InDesign and all looked fine). It seems that colors are different on the last page only. Is it possible that it has a different color preferences set up? I'm a new InDesign user and I would be gratefull for You help :-)

It sounds like you have transparency of some sort (effects, drop shadow, tranparent image?) on the front and not on the back, and that the transparency blend space is set to CMYK instead of RGB while your image is RGB.
Edit > Transparency Blend Space > Document RGB

Photos color shift when placed in Pages document

I'm used to working with a color managed workflow in Aperture; my monitor and printer are both calibrated. I'm having trouble getting accurate color when those photos are placed in a Pages document - whether they're imported directly from Aperture using the Media function in Pages, or exported as a JPEG and drag-dropped over the Pages placeholder image.
The pictures take on a slight magenta-blue cast when dropped into Pages, a cast which is not present when viewed natively in Aperture, soft proofed in Aperture, or when printed from Aperture. When I export them as JPEGs, I assign an sRGB colorspace to them; Aperture, of course, treats everything as AdobeRGB until exported. Both colorspaces present the same shift.
A known good (third party) color-managed test JPEG shows the same effect, regardless of whether it's AdobeRGB or sRGB. Aperture and Pages are both the lastest versions.
I can, of course, use the image sliders to compensate somewhat, but that is extra work I shouldn't need to do!
Any help would be appreciated.

Well, it looks as though I found my own answer. Turns out the template I was using had a color correction already added to the stock photo it used. What I didn't know is that those color corrections belong to the placeholder, not the image - when a new image is dropped in, it takes on the adjustments of the slider. I think that's kind of silly, but that's the way it works.
I set the sliders to zero, dropped in a managed sRGB print, and it's perfect.
Problem solved.

Printed Photos color very saturated

When I print this photo:
on photo paper on my Photosmart C309a Series, the color is too saturated.
and yet when I print on plain paper the photo looks fine.
The photo paper used is HP Premium and the ink is HP. The print quality report looks OK:
What is wrong? Is the printer not working correctly? I have tried all kinds of option changes and have wasted over 20 pages of photo paper (not to speak of the ink used). I'm thinking of taking the printer back to Costco.
can anyone help?

What program are you printing from? If you are printing from Photoshop make sure you are not selecting CMYK as the printer model. Even though the printer uses CMYK inks the driver expects RGB data from the computer.
Bob Headrick, HP Expert
I am not an employee of HP, I am a volunteer posting here on my own time.
If your problem is solved please click the "Accept as Solution" button ------------V
If my answer was helpful please click the "Thumbs Up" to say "Thank You"--V

IWeb 08 screws my photos color profile

Anyone has this problem with the new iWeb 08?
I installed the new version, ran it without any problems, did some rearranging of my site, created a new page etc.. And then published the whole site all over again.
But now, all my images are tagged with the sRGB profile instead of the profile that was in the images.. now all my images have become very saturated and dark. The thumbnails are fine, but when you click in to see the photos in slideshow or not, the images are loaded and it looks horrible.
I've went into my iDisk to check the images and found that all my photos are tagged with the sRGB profile instead of my normal AdobeRGB profile or Nikon sRGB profile or no profile...
ARGH!!!!

iWEB 08 is a fully color confused application, whilst iPhoto is only partly color confused.
The following applies when dragging images from iPhoto library, with the "Optimize Images on Import" option on. According to the manual, this option only changes the size, but I would not be surprised if it changes something else also. Then after, exporting from iWEB to files on the hard drive.
Having spent 8 hours analyzing the problem, I am beginning to understand what is happening but certainly not WHY???
iWEB appear to convert the images 2 times (when importing and when exporting I wonder), both times incorrectly, and to top it off, it exports images without a color profile BUT with the EXIF data of the original, which at this point is incorrect. HOWEVER, it appears that thumbnails are only converted incorrectly once, adding to the confusion.
Before going into some remedies let me answer the question: What color space etc. is "correct" for the WEB?
There are three rules to publishing photos on the WEB (files for download is a different story):
a) Image, including thumbnails should be in sRGB color space (Otherwise it will NOT display correctly on MicroSoft systems, where browsers happily ignores color profiles and sRGB is ASSUMED for all images)
b) There should be an sRGB color profile in the image file, including thumbnails (Otherwise it will NOT display correctly on MacOS, where browsers assume AppleRGB, but will happily adjust to any color profile)
c) Discard unnecessary information in the file to reduce size, such as EXIF information, thumbnails etc (optional rule)
Having said that, you may ask yourself, who do that? Well to tell the truth, not many. A quick check on Apples website reveals that there is a mix of color "strategies". For instance, the pictures demonstrating the cool features of iLife08, appear to be in sRGB but without color profile. Thus, they will be displayed correctly on a MicroSoft system but not on a Mac.
Well, back to iWEB - To try to fix the color problem, do one or both of the following:
1) Keep calling Apple Cupertino until they fix the problem (really, I am not joking, I am tired)
2) Convert images after they have been exported. This seems to work also, almost. However, converting a pictures color space is not exactly reversible, thus result is not perfect. Use for instance Photoshop CS1 or later (make sure color settings is such that there are no conversions when you open files and use the colorimetric conversion option in advanced settings) and:
a) Open picture
b) Assign AppleRGB profile
c) Convert to sRGB
d) Assign the original profile (usually sRGB or AdobeRGB or the cameras RGB)
e) Convert to sRGB
f) Save (with option: include color profile)
File is now about 2 times the original
g) Open graphics converter
h) Choose convert...
i) Choose file(s), hold Cmd-key and choose remove resources (which does not remove the color profile)
File is now ok for publishing on the WEB
TIP, if it seems like a daunting task to manually convert all of the exported images (and do not forget the thumbnails), make an Action-script in Photoshop, then use the Batch feature with sub-folders etc .... . Also the graphics converter operation can be applied to include subfolders. I did this, and it works ok, but be sure to only convert YOUR images, not the other files in the structure. I also applied the same conversion to the thumbnails to simpify things and it turned out not to bad. (Can somebody make an AppleScript maybe?)
And finally, how about iPhoto? Well, iPhoto will always export images in the color space and profile it happens to be imported with, unless you edit the image in some external editor. If you are WEB publishing "lucky", the image will come out in sRGB color space and with an sRGB color profile. And yes, I have also tried various iPhoto-WEB export plug-ins, and they also all do it wrong.
If you read all of this, you are a patient person. Thanks for the attention.
Tomas Jonsson, Genicore Embedded Systems AB

Photo color

A friend took our wedding photos using a professional digital camera, when I look at the pics on my macbook pro in iphoto the colors are perfect. When I have taken them to a photo lab to print they are very purple in color and disappointing (as they are when i look at them in flickr) - I had a photo book printed using the apple product and the color was fine. I tried using iphoto to order prints but they came back purple. Very disappointed as I cant find anywhere I can have my wedding pics printed.
Any suggestions?

Hi remlap.
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I am sorry to hear that you are having issues with your print quality. I have done some research on the issue and I have found a great document on troubleshooting issues when your Images are Fuzzy, Blurry, Jagged, or Grainy.
If this document does NOT resolve the issue, please write me back so that we can attempt other steps to resolve the issue.
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Why is photo color intensity so flat compared to original photos?

I have been working on a Keynote presentation for photos I took on a recent trip. I edited my photos and converted them into jpeg files before bringing them into Keynote. Once in Keynote, the color intensity of the photos is very different from those in the jpeg files. They are flat and have no "pop." I would appreciate any suggestions on what I might do to remedy this. Thanks.

Sounds like you can simply create a correspondingly over-contrasty, oversaturated image and load that. It'll take some tinkering to find the balance, I'm sure.
Hope this is helpful. Good luck!

Cropping a series of photos in consistent format?

I have a whole series of action-figure products that I shot in my studio, and I want to now crop each one in the same manner.
How do I control the crop tool to apply the same crop to a series of photos?

That's a tough call. It all depends upon you original image. The best bet is if your specimen samples have been stained to show the structure you want to isolate. If so, you can look at the different color channels to see which channel brings out the detail that you want to isolate the best, then use that channel to make a selection. Maybe make a duplicate of that channel and increase the contrast using curves or apply it to itself using multiply blend mode.

Photo Color Consistency?

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