Photoshop CC ACR hangs on point tone curve Ctl-click point placement

This is very repeatable on PS CC ACR 8.2 on Windows 7.
Open a .DNG file in ACR from Bridge CC, go to Tone Curve Point tab, hold down Ctl and move the cursor (which is now an eyedropper) over the preview. After a few seconds, ACR hangs. If you then try to click on Cancel, a 'CC not responding' popup comes up and in the detail box is the following:
Description:
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name:          AppHangB1
Application Name:          Bridge.exe
Application Version:          6.0.1.6
Application Timestamp:          51df8e41
Hang Signature:          e44e
Hang Type:          1
OS Version:          6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID:          1033
Additional Hang Signature 1:          e44ea2817f7bdfb908543cee81dbbb11
Additional Hang Signature 2:          b3a0
Additional Hang Signature 3:          b3a06c6058e1092149a737de22296128
Additional Hang Signature 4:          99d4
Additional Hang Signature 5:          99d49f77f9bc5f1d9bb9fe355cc87812
Additional Hang Signature 6:          ffe2
Additional Hang Signature 7:          ffe2977018aeb6dfae936f5a97cbd856
I can re-create this at will.

Hi
i test it right now
ctrl + mouse click on the image add an anchor in the curve adjustament layer CC last update
ctrl + mouse click no cs6
windows
can someone please confirm?
in both auto-select target adjustament tool Disabled (the little hand)

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In ACR, I see a "Point" tone curve with the "Adobe Standard" profile on Canon 5d Mark II files.
I've never seen a tone curve before on standard profiles for other cameras. I understand that tone curves are included in the camera standard, faithful, portrait and landscape profiles in attempt to match the in-camera jpegs. But I thought the Adobe Standard profiles were supposed to target only color (hue/sat) and leave tone up to the user.
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Dear Eric,
I have Photoshop/Bridge CS3 and Camera Raw Version 4.5.0.175 on Windows XP (SP2).
To "see" tone curves I launch Bridge, navigate to a folder, double-click a raw or DNG file and get the ACR window.
In the ACR window, I click on the "Camera Calibration" tab and navigate through the various Camera Profiles.
For each profile, I click on the "Tone Curve" tab and view both the "Parametric" and "Point" curves.
For canon 5D Mark II DNG files there is always a "Medium Contrast" Point Curve, under every camera profile. I do not have a Canon 1Ds Mark III, but I have downloaded a sample raw file and converted it to DNG. For this DNG I also see a Medium Contrast Point Curve under every profile.
For my Canon 20D and Canon 1Ds raw or DNG files the Point and Parametric curves are flat under every camera profile.
When I downloaded the latest DNG converter and DNG Profile Editor, I'm reasonably confident I also downloaded and installed the most current camera profiles.
For Canon 5D2 files I see the following profiles: Adobe Standard, Camera Faithful, Camera Landscape, Camera Neutral, Camera Portrait, and Camera Standard, in that order.
For the Canon 1DS Mark III image I see all those profiles, plus ACR 4.4 and ACR 4.3
For Canon 20D files I see all those profiles, plus ACR 4.4 and ACR 2.4
To make sure I'm not picking up any presets, I have invoked the pop-up menu in ACR and selected "Reset Camera Raw Defaults". Then, for each file viewed in ACR I checked the pop-up menu again to make sure "Camera Raw Defaults" was checked.
And a reminder, all this was after I had created a number of custom profiles from Macbeth Color Checker images using the DNG Profile Editor. Those custom profiles created a problem with Bridge previews, so I removed all of them before viewing Point Curves as described above. Still hoping to get some feedback on the Bridge preview problem I described in this message:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bb6a869.59b790c8

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Hi team,
It would be really helpful to be able to view the RGB Histograms separately in addition to a composite (rather than the "compact" mode we have now).
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Your post seems to assume that Lightroom is a tool for travel/landscape photography, and other types of photography (e.g., portrait/fashion) should be supported by a "specialized add-on module". I have to disagree with you on that point. Considering many of the examples on the Lightroom marketing are fashion shoots, I would think that they considers portrait/fashion photographers to be an important part of their target audience. They are not a fringe group of specialists.
I'm sure that portrait/fashion photographers would feel the same way about a Lightroom capability that primarily benefits the workflow of a travel/landscape photographer, i.e., when I do do some landscape work, I just edit in Photoshop. But you wouldn't agree to that, would you?
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There are other ways Adobe can implement skin tone management that would be more powerful but a little more complicated. Those would be great too.
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This is a very valid point and would make a great feature request. You should consider submitting it through the official channels (no pun intended) http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightro om put your idea here and I will vote for it.

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You'll have to forgive me for sounding a bit novice in what I'm about to say, but, keep in mind that I work with 16-bit film scans, not digital camera RAWs...
LR looks exactly like ACR 4 (not sure which one was the chicken or the egg, since I've never used ACR before), so, my next question is...
If they ported pretty much everything over from ACR (or the other way 'round), why couldn't they have also ported over the ability to adjust points on the Tone Curve?! And given that LR *can* work with point Tone Curve presets, isn't it really just a matter of enabling it at this point, or just porting over from ACR 4?
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Natural Tone Curve

Hi
I try to find a "Natural Tone Curve", meaning a tone curve which accounts for the non-linearity of human vision, but no pleasant tweaks added. I wonder in how far the interacting tone curve combo of PE/CR is such curve.
1-in the PE:
In
Eric Chan, "Starting profile for ColorChecker calibration in PE" #1, 24 Oct 2008 6:01 am
you (Eric) state that
"The Chart Wizard is designed to produce a reasonably accurate scene-referred color profile (within the technical limits of the input data)."
I wonder if this includes the little indent to the right at the base of the base curve? Or should I flatten this out, setting the starting point to 0/0? The indent seems to correspond to the Blacks +5 setting in CR.
2-in CR:
Is the Medium Contrast S-curve really part of the difference between human vision and linearity? Or should I set it to linear to be most natural?
In particular, again, the part reflecting the deepest shadows seems to be quite deliberately tweaked.
Thank you for your input.

Hi Eric,
thank you for a VERY fast reply! -
I learn that perceptual linearity is handled by ICC profiles, not by tone curves in the PE or in ACR. -
The advice you give to avoid pleasant tweaks is the recipe for a linear image, as you have given it to Brent Townshend
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b71da3/0
This was not what I had in mind. I am aware of that a linear image will not look natural.
In terms of the scene referred workflow as described by Tindemans
http://21stcenturyshoebox.com/essays/scenereferredworkflow.html
what I search for might be described as a subdivision of step 2 (called creative processing). There must be an area between linear and purely arbitrary, we might call it natural. The fact that this area can not be easily defined let alone measured objectively ought not to preclude us from at least identifying and naming it. As it is now, we can not even in terms separate between natural, and beautified ad libitum. Arbitrariness is being presented as unavoidable.
So my question aimed at: (How) can I make a base curve that is natural, but not beautified (by exaggerating the contrast)?
"The Chart Wizard is designed to produce a reasonably accurate *scene-referred* color profile" - but how is the "rendering intent" of the Base Curve?
I tried your advice with the linear curve in the PE + lightening in ACR on both the ColorChecker image and a real scene. The CC could be made look reasonable. But this is an image where the histogram has headroom on either side. So I experienced it like you said: this may work with an image whose DR matches that of the medium. With the real scene, whose histogram stretched end-to-end in the first place, using the Exposure slider led to highlight clipping at once, as exspected; instead, I had to use the Brightness slider - that is increase the contrast, if I understand it correctly.
So it looks like-:
1-The task of the Base Curve is to map the DR of an image to that of the screen
2-If there is any answer to my question, it is image-dependent. On the other hand: the PE uses ONE Base Curve. So the question may be allowed: What is the "rendering intent" of that curve?
Kind regards - Hening.

Tone Curve mismatch

I've been playing around with the different forms of tone curves and their application through the DNG:PE / ACR / LR chain and have run across something which I can't explain. As I understand the documentation and subsequent discussions here, the tone curve as defined in the PE is what will result when ACR / LR processes with the default values (0 blacks as exception). If I redraw the 'base curve' however (using a 5 point match to make it nearly identical) and then set the base to 'Linear', my result is considerably brighter than with the actual base curve. Assuming that these are being applied overtop one another, order shouldn't matter, and so I am left wondering why my result is so different?
Also, does changing the per-camera default settings in ACR / LR affect the target defaults coming out of the PE, or will they always assume the shipping default settings?
TIA.

The graph and sliders are not displaying, I can find nothing to check

DNG PE: I want to try other Tone Curve but ...

In DNG PE I load a dng file, I choose a camera profile, I go in the Tone Curve panel in the Base Tone Curve I set Linear, I click on the curve and I set in 95 out 160 (only one point for this purpose) and then I save the new profile.
I go in ACR, I load an image and I switch to new camera profile: the image become very light.
I launch the DNG PE, load the previus created camera profile, click on Show Tone Base Curve: the showed curve is not parent with that I created (95 in 185 out, see below in black what I have created, in red what the profile has registered)

Hi Marco,
This is mostly (*) possible, but not directly via the DNG PE. The issue is the encoding space. Your RGB tone curve that you describe above is defined in a gamma 1.8 space (since ProPhoto has a gamma encoding of 1.8 ). The (black) tone curve interface in DNG PE is defined in a gamma 2.2 space.
In other words, if x is a linear signal and x' is the transformed linear signal, then the math for the former case is effectively
x' = x ^ 1/1.8
x' = ApplyToneCurve (x')
x' = x ^ 1.8
whereas the math for the latter case is the same except for the use of 2.2 instead of 1.8.
You will need to perform the appropriate transformation so that your 1.8-relative tone curve is expressed properly in a 2.2 space.
Once you have the actual numeric curve worked out, one way to make the required tone curve is to edit the .dcpr (recipe) file from the DNG PE using a text editor.
(*) The reason I say "mostly" is because another detail is that the PS RGB tone curve is a 1D curve applied separately to each channel. This is not the way the tone curve works in Camera Raw.

LR4.1 - Tone Curve - how to adjust individual RGB channels?

Hi,
I am having trouble figuring out how to adjust the curve of individual RGB channels. I am assuming the LR4 Tone Curve works like the PS Curves dialog with the channel dropdown.
The LR4.1 Help says:
To make adjustments to individual points on the tone curve, choose an option from the Point Curve menu, click the Edit Point Curve button , and do any of the following:
Choose an option from the Channel pop-up menu. You can edit all three channels at once, or choose to edit the Red, Green, or Blue channel individually.
When I click the little icon in the lower right corner of the Tone Curve panel, the panel shrinks so that I don't see the Regions sliders. If I click again, they are visible again. I can't find where to select one of the three indvidual channels.
The Help refers to "the Point Curve menu." Where is the Point Curve menu? Is the Point Curve different from the Tone Curve?
If I right-click (Windows) in the curve dialog, the context menu has a Show Info option. I click it on/off and don't see any change or any info. Where should I be looking for info?
Thanks for any help here.
John

Good morning John,
The point curve is the one without the sliders. The adjustments for the individual channels are only available with
PV2012. You must be editing a file with PV2010 or 2003. When in PV2012 you will see " Channels: RGB" below the curve window. Click on the doule triangles following the RGB
to pick the individual channel.
HTH
Rich

How do I set a preset in LR to import all files from my computer with a Medium Tone Curve?

I edit a file in PS, and LR informs me that the "metadata for the file has been changed." I opt for import settings from disk (my changes), but in doing so the file is always rendered with a linear tone curve. What I am seeking is to have the file that I've been working on PS, be with the same rendering in LR.
Thank you,
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I just followed your workflow. In other words I used the "edit in" option to send an image to Photoshop where I made a significant change in the tone curve. Then I saved that image, which returned to Lightroom. The Lightroom tone curve still displayed as a linear curve. In other words it didn't reflect the changes that I made in Photoshop. However the image itself displayed the changes that were made. So apparently saving your PSD in Photoshop will not force Lightroom to display the Photoshop changes. As far as Lightroom is concerned, that is the new linear curve. The only curve adjustments you will see in Lightroom are the ones made using Lightroom.
To summarize what I'm trying to say, whatever you change the curve to in Photoshop becomes the linear curve in Lightroom. Sorry that I am so poor with words sometimes.

Photoshop CC ACR hangs on point tone curve Ctl-click point placement

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