Photoshop performance on new Mac Pro Nehalem

If my current comparison is a dual quad core 2.66GHz "old" Mac Pro, and want new "Nehalem" Mac Pro, where Photoshop performs equally.
Should I get a 2.66 Quad Core Mac Pro (given I accept the 8 GB RAM limit)?
Should I get a 2.26 Dual Quad Core Mac Pro?
Where is Adobe going in the optimizations of Photoshop application and filters?
Will optimizations be done for CS4, CS5, or even later?
Please show me the path.
Søren

Correct
not acceptable.
Phil-
Of course any 4-core Mac Pro with 8 GB RAM and appropriate graphics card will run any version of Photoshop very well, but you miss the point.
"just buy the most machine you can afford" is actually quite complicated.
The point is that we have
multiple Mac Pro computer investment
choices
and prices to choose among:
boxes from 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 with various graphics cards and other architectural parameters to consider when choosing the "best" one for any given workflow and financial situation.
With 11 Mac Pros (further complicated by confusing graphics cards combinations) it behooves us to quickly remove what may be
unacceptable investment choices from consideration. The one box of 11 that limits RAM to 8 GB is - IMO - easily identified as "unacceptable" and removed from consideration.
Moving forward :) as app vendors evolve apps to better utilize available cheap RAM, OS 10.6 and boxes with more RAM access (like all the other Mac Pros ever made) ever-larger amounts of
cheap RAM will become more useful. E.g. I paid US$450 to upgrade my 2007 Macbook Pro from 2 GB to 3 GB, and it was worth it. Today that much money will put 24 GB in a MP, and RAM prices continue to fall.
Under OS X Photoshop can already take advantage of at least 32 GB installed RAM. We do not know what 64-bit Mac PS will bring us in a year or so, but odds are pretty high that having lots of RAM available will be very desirable. IMO buying a 4-year-lifecycle pro tower in 2009 that is constrained to 8 GB RAM would be a poor purchase decision.
All the above comments assume heavy graphics app usage like CS3/4/5.
-Allen
P.S.
We agree about the new Mini. Even with its limited RAM (and consequent shortened life cycle) the low price makes it a viable choice for less than the heaviest graphics work.
The new Mini IMO is the sleeper of the new Macs. iMacs are hamstrung by their glossy displays intolerable to many (not all) graphics pros but the Minis are not. Running OS 10.6 with FW 800 connectivity, 9400M graphics, 4 GB DDR3 RAM and third-party displays a Mini can now actually drive a desktop Aperture or Photoshop workflow (although obviously not like a 4x-the-price MP would drive such apps) at a very cheap price.

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  • WORKAROUND! - Sluggish Motion V 4.0.1 on Mac Pro Nehalem 2.97 GHz 16 Vcore

    Hi guys, like several people on this forum and others I been very frustrated with the performance of both Motion.app version 3 and now Motion.app V4 .0 .1 (latest update) on my 2009 Mac pro Nehalem 2.97 GHz 16 Vcore 12GB with the ATI Radeon 4870 graphics card.
    I have two workarounds that may be of assistance in relieving this issue. They work for me however before I discuss what they I'd like to set the scene.
    Like many of us, I have trawled this forum and many others including COW and so on mostly relying on those 10-12 (the dozen or so) excellent tips from people like Mark Spencer and others. This includes the usual things like turning off rendering options that make heavy use of CPU/GPU etc.
    Caveat: I'd also like to note here that this performance sluggishness has absolutely nothing to do (and is completely unrelated to) I/O performance nor is it related to memory usage. The reason I say this is because during some testing and the normal practice I keep all a Motion.app cache files (autosave, cached files etc) out on a very fast PROAVIO EB8NS disk array with ATTO R380 HBA onto SAS paths where this box is capable of over 450 MB per second measured with Kona system test tool. Additionally I have 12 GB of memory on this Mac pro which I assigned 70% of it to be available to Motion.app V4. The sluggishness Motion.app V4 is not manifest itself through the usual items such as excessive virtual memory page in/out or swap in/out activity. In fact in this scenario I describe below in my system when nothing else is running the former is non-existent! Additionally I also want to know that Motion.app V4 in my scenario/situation/environment is definitely and certainly NOT impacted by insufficient I/O bandwidth..
    However, like many people, who have the same or similar setup to myself, we experience severe delays the most basic Motion.app UI such as: selecting an item, scrubbing through the timeline, performing any kind of transform etc etc. Many of us trying to diagnose this problem (looking for any kind of diagnostics or messages etc) have noticed that with the exception of one single core, the remaining cores to do very little (idle or just barely moving) whilst the remaining single core is taking out at 100% constantly.
    Many months ago whilst really bogged down with this problem trying to complete a project, I contacted Mark Spencer who politely explained that notion exploits the on-board graphics card (in my case the ATI Radeon HD 4870). After frustratingly trying to improve the performance of this and completely reinstalling Final Cut Suite in a different brand-new (at the time MacOS X 10.5.6), I found that there was little difference.
    I am mentioning all this because, I know that a few colleagues have had a similar problem and have not found any satisfaction in looking at this despite many well-informed forum users who offer excellent advice.
    At my wits end (currently), I took a few days to try and isolate what the problems may be caused by (what exacerbates this severely degraded performance). This user interface sludgy degradation is manifested through the UI also has the (spinning beach ball).
    I isolated pieces in some of the Motion.app projects and started to ISOLATE (Control-I) what I thought were quite complex layers and individual objects but to no avail. I then resorted to completely deleting them with some improvement in performance (noticeably less sluggyness) however it still was not lightning fast as I expected considering it I was in draft mode, 720 p resolution, with lighting, shadows and reflections completely turned off in the view.
    *Motion.app BEHAVIOURS*: after some hours and a great deal of trial and error (non-productive work time I might add) it occurred to me that some of the Motion.app behaviours in particular place in the layer with as few as five objects in the layer (behaviours such as "Motion.app path", "wriggle", "oscillate" and even good old trusted "throw" seem to be the culprits in this particular layer.
    I will note well here at this point, but of course "camera layers" does seem to be affected at all with the basic movements such as Dolly, frame, sweep etc. I have some sets up to 4 or five cameras which seems not to bother Motion.app at all!
    *OBJECT SELECTION (S):* yes this also seems to have some degrading impact on playout, scrubbing and so on. Interesting I thought.
    Workarounds: here are a few things that I know that work to get around some problems of working where Motion.app is extremely SLUGGY in the user interface (UI). Perhaps someone has already noted these on a forum or posted on however I couldn't find them.
    So my workflow/practice here is to do the following when I'm manipulating objects (placement, set up, applying filters, adjusting timeline, and so on):
    +WORKAROUND #1+: *DISABLE the behaviours* in the layers where you are performing any object manipulation. In fact we have many objects in many layers where the topmost layer (a group of nested layers) contains any behaviours, I would suggest you disable those whilst you work on that particular layer.
    It's a very simple stylus click to enable the BEHAVIOURS layers that you have been working on to see what the effect of those behaviours when you want to play them out in the player/canvas.
    I have no idea why such trivial behaviours cause my very expensive Mac pro to nearly lock up whilst in Motion.app version 4 and also version 3. Anyway is definitely works on me.
    +WORKAROUND #2+: *DESELECT ANY ITEM IN THE CANVAS* (in any view) when attempting to play out whilst in the canvas. Again I don't know why having one or more items (including the camera) insert would have such a drastic impact on the performance of Motion.app to play out what I think is a frivolous range, however this really works for me.
    *How to measure the performance or how to monitor the performance/usage of the ATI Radeon HD 4870 graphics card from MacOS X?* I would like to know exactly what this is doing on my system when one of the CPU cores is pegged out in 100% servicing requests from Motion.app. I can't find utility (which am willing to pay for) that sees the ATI Radeon HD 4870 graphics card. One I thought would have is an application called atMonitor.app (http://www.atpurpose.com/atMonitor/) which seems to do a pretty good job on my uni body MacBook Pro and wife's Macbook Air.
    It would seem that any of the utilities don't seem to see the ATI Radeon HD 4870 or if they do and they initiate commands to it that the ATI Radeon HD 4870 and doesn't respond or send any replies status information. (Beats me I'm not a technical person these days)
    Summary: I would be very interested if other people who have a similar if not pretty near exact setup as myself have found these two suggestions useful. I have tried some of these Motion.app projects on my MacBook Pro uni-body and with some difference the MacBook Pro exhibits similar sluggyness to this Mac pro.
    W
    Hong Kong

    Mark, I took your advice and reinstall Final Cut Suite Version 3 (including Motion.app version 4.0.1) onto a completely different and I'm used file system including a brand-new install of MacOS X snow leopard 10.6.1, which I believe is the most recent update.
    To be clear, I have all the latest Pro Applications updates as well apply to this brand-new system.
    So here is the *bad new*s.
    *Using exactly the same hardware configuration as I described in this theme of woe, I launched Motion.app V4 .0 .1 and opened up several of the projects that I'm having trouble with that is issued.*
    Simply, the symptoms and observation I described in this thread exists with a brand-new installation.
    Anyway looks like I have a backup/another instance available Final Cut Pro in case my main production image has trouble.
    Once again, as I described initially in this thread, I used the two workarounds to overcome the consistent and overwhelmingly an exaggerated 20 seconds lag on average interactions with Motion.app with the success that I'd described previously.
    In another thread back in September 2009, a forum poster mentioned that he felt that the camera framing behaviours were the root of this problem. And to this end he advised converting these behaviours to keyframes using the command-K ("convert to keyframes") to overcome his misery.
    This indeed does work very well. So this is the third workaround and I'm starting to use.
    Further I have done some more hard comparisons with my 2009 MacBook pro uni-body 2.93 GHz with a standard arrangement of 4 MB of memory and the usual disk internally. *To my great surprise*, I found that the projects that I'm having a lot of trouble with were much more responsive not only with the camera framing behaviours (which I'm not particularly having any trouble with), but the layers that contains a simple transform behaviours such as "motion path", "wiggle", and so on did not seem to bother the Mac book pro.
    I watched the CPU cores on the Mac book pro maybe go to 80% while the project was loading, and also whilst I gingerly navigated through the project although feeling a little sluggy was far less in orders of 10 to 20 seconds faster than this Mac pro Nehalem with all the bells and whistles on my earnings embedded within it.
    Now I'm starting to wonder, as Andy pointed out, +maybe there is some trouble with the hardware in this system+. I really could not know how to determine if this is the case. However before I draw this conclusion finally, I noticed that there are a lot more people out there with the same consideration as I have that have this same problem. It's not narrowed down to those owners with the ATI Radeon HD 4870 graphics card, however these seem to be the bulk of the people who are trying to do things that are getting a fair amount of forum time (like me).
    There certainly seems to be something of an issue as there are some symptom dumps for Motion.app but only one or 2 to over this period that seemed to be triggered by something on this machine. And like many on this forum I gave up reading dumps for a living back in the 1990s.
    I would really like to know how I can diagnose this problem before I had to pack this Mac pro up and carted back to the local Apple care centre here in Hong Kong (which means I won't have it forever while, which means no income). Yes I can use my Mac book pro uni-body which is I might end up doing.
    _Oh, and this little gem._ I find that if I invoke the "timeline pane/window" (command-7), that it can take up to 2 seconds to refresh the screen. It is amazingly slow and feel like there is definitely something wrong.
    If I have a simple motion project by that I mean some simple plates some moving text and no real 3-D except for one little camera Motion.app V 4 seems to work quite okay.
    The sets that I'm working in at about eight or nine cameras over the timeline and maybe three or four sets in the project. This is not the work I think especially when most of the moving here is a few objects wobbling around in 3-D space and quick camera moves using the camera framing behaviour.
    In summary, having spent what seems to be 40 or 50 hours messing with this issue are not doing anything productive, I've come to the conclusion that there is definitely something wrong with this setup that I have. However having had no problem with that up until now (I know actually I had some problems back in May 2009 with it but it seemed that install a Final Cut Suite version 2 completely fixed it.
    And I am totally surprised that my Mac book pro uni-body if pressed can do the job that I want.
    Therefore Motion Forum users, I really don't know what else there is to do other than to poke around over time and eventually something will fix this because it is really very frustrating and like many of us on this forum I did endeavour to pay for/put capital funds into a system highly recommended by many that uses Apple production applications than I expected it would work.
    By the way, I noticed when I use Nuke version 5 and Shake V 4.1 and even Maya PE, I don't have these issues but will concede that I doubt whether the use applications take advantage directly of the GPU arrangement in the graphics card like Motion.app does.
    That's all I have.
    Any other thoughts are most welcome.
    W

  • What is the best way to set up my new Mac Pro?

    Not wanting to screw up in a process I've not done with a brand new machine before, I'm looking for feedback on my plan for setting my new Mac Pro next week...
    The physical plan is this:
    For RAM, I have four 2GB SDRAM's plus the supplied six 1GB modules. My plan here is to install the 2GB rams into the first four slots and install four of the 1GB modules into the remaining four slots for a total of 12GB's.
    When the cost for 4GB modules gets down to reasonable, I'll buy four of them and bump the current rams down the line which will then give me a total of 24 gigs where I'll stay.
    For my hard drives, I'm installing a 160GB Intel X25-M into the first drive bay
    http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/mainstream/index.htm
    using one of MaxUpgrades' 'MaxConnects' kits. I will use this drive for the operating system software and my applications and their libraries.
    Next, into the remaining three drive bays, I am installing three 300GB WD Velociraptors. Mine are the pre-'backplane ready' versions:
    http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=459
    so I have bought these sleds for them...
    http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_i d=180
    I own one of Sonnet's Tempo SATA E4P cards
    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/temposatae4p.html
    which, thanks to this forum, I now understand, with the correct firmware installed, function well so I will install it and be able to establish hardware RAID. I will create a RAID 0 set with the three Velociraptors and use it to store all of my data files.
    Backup will happen on a 1TB WD 'Caviar Black' external drive connected through one of the Sonnet card's external eSATA ports and using the OS 'Time Machine' software.
    And that's the physical plan. My question is about setting things up. The physical installation part is straight forward and I don't expect any difficulties but I'm wondering what is the best way to install the operating system.
    Do I take a first step keeping the supplied hard drive installed, install the solid state drive into the next drive bay and then transfer the contents from the supplied drive onto the SSD or do I do the complete physical installation process and do a 'C' drive start up and install the OS that way?
    And, do you have any tips/suggestions on setting up the RAID 0 set?
    thanks for the help. I want to do this right.
    JQ

    oh mighty Hatter, I knew you'd have helpful guidance to offer! And thank you. You've confirmed my anxieties about the Sonnet card; kind of a 'too much, too quickly' sort of thing. And it's not that Sonnet's not a good company. Just everything to do with new technologies and the growth curve we all, manufacturers and users, go through when they come out. And, for sure, the new Mac Pro's are new technology; the single biggest forward leap in Apple's top-of-the-line machines for some time far as I can tell. Just reading at Intel's website about the Nehalem's is a joy!
    So, I will proceed now with everything except for the controller card, leaving that 'til later. In the meantime, I think I'll just happily run with the four hard drives all running independently. No software RAID. I know just those, the SSD boot drive plus Velociraptor trio's going inside of a 2.66ghz 8-core Nehalem Mac Pro is going to be a working pleasure. Heck, this way, I'll get settled in and used to the machine's speed, have a great time doing so and then, in however many months, I can jump into spending another chunk of money on an excellent RAID card, RAID card's dear Barefeats will have tested and reviewed for us, set up my RAID 0 set and head of to those new races watching my computer leap for joy! Could be that, by then, the cost of Intel 160GB X25-M's will have dropped enough that I can afford to go for a second and have a two SSD RAID 0 boot drive... Yummy!
    Thanks for the help. Like I say, I knew there was useful guidance hanging on some limb within your personal kit, (otherwise referred to as your mind)!
    Interesting to read about the problems people have had with Sonnet's 2.17 update in PPC's... In this computer, my PowerMac G5 dual 2.7ghz, I have a Sonnet 'Tempo Sata X4P' controller card. I downloaded and installed 2.17 and got the same troubles; no cut, no paste, no 'drag and drop' etc. It was miserable.
    Mine, fortunately, magically corrected after running the 'permissions verify and correct' process in Disc Utility and, after a restart, all was back to almost normal but for one exception; the Sonnet card was no longer present or functioning including the four eSATA ports out the back. (I ran Tech Tools Pro 5's repair suites first but, and who knows why, it didn't correct the problem...) This one was absolutely in the 'who knows what the f_'s going on and why it disappeared but did' class.
    Oh, the other remnant is that, when the computer goes into sleep, after about five minutes, the fans rev up, and up, and the computer's frozen; only access is to do a forced shutdown pressing and holding the power button, so I've had to adopt a 'shut down whenever leaving it for more than fifteen minutes' approach to this dear friend. Once I've fully moved into and established my new one (which should arrive today, by the way... Yippeee!!! Can't wait!), I'll do a complete restoration on this one including taking out the Sonnet card. Usually, I sell my old Pro's but, this time, I'm going to keep this one as a back up and just general second computer for times I might need it. It has been such a great and dependable machine. Keeping it seems the right thing to do.
    thanks Hatter. I'll let you know how things go, including what happens with the SSD. I don't have speed test software so I won't be able to track it's performance like that guy in the post you gave me did...
    JQ
    ps- Gotta love that ILLogic fellow eh? Talk about not getting the essence!

  • New Mac Pro (Late 2013) and CC 2014

    Ok, I've been working on one of the new Mac Pro's from late 2013 and using CC 2013 with R3D footage quite successfully (though without great debayering performance on the R3D - I know it's supposed to be improved in CC 2014).
    I'm running 10.9.2 Mac OSX.
    When football season here in the states starts in two weeks, I will have a VERY deadline intensive 30 minute television show that I have to turn around from Saturday night at 2am until 8am Sunday morning.
    I have purchased CC 2014, but have read in the past few weeks about the headaches the combination of OS 10.9.3 (and .4) and CC 20014 have caused.
    My question is, where do we stand with those issues, and what would the community / Adobe moderators say about me heading up to the latest OS and CC 2014 under these circumstances? Thanks so much for the insight everyone.
    Banks

    jameskachan wrote:
    …The obvious reason [sic] seems to suggest…
    That's what it suggests to you, in the limited scope of your vision and knowledge, and without your having provided detailed specs about your hardware.
    Due to the current unavailability of clairvoyants and mind-readers in the forum, we respectfully request you supply sensible, complete details.
    We don't even know what your specific issues are, and for all we know you may be running the pathetic, buggy Yosemite OS—which Apple is giving away for free.
    In this case, you have been enormously fortunate in that you received a reply from none other than Gµrµ Chris Cox, a top Adobe engineer who has been writing Photoshop code since the last millennium.
    It's hight time you drop the attitude and avoid further embarrassing yourself in a public forum.  Just my two cents.

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