PI 7.31 Dual Stack Using BPM/BRM and ccBPM

Hello,
My client has decided to use SAP PI 7.31, because we have many ccBPM solutions, being used a long time, the idea is install the Dual Stack solution and keep using the ccBPM, at least for while.
But for the new integration solutions, we would like to use the AEX(Local AEX-Based) and connect to BPM and BRM, and maybe migrate the old solutions when possible.
Is it possible, use the both solutions( AEX/BPM/BRM and ccBPM) ? In this case, we will have all the benefits and great perfomance
when using the AEX/BPM/BRM(Local AEX-Based) solution, that we have in the single stack ?
Best regards,
Dylon.

Hi, vishal jain.
Thank you! Checking your link, we will probably choose the third case:
If PI is installed as dual-stack, then PO, PI and BPM/BRM, will have to be installed with different SIDs. PI on one SID and BPM/BRM on a different SID.
But the question remains... in this case is possible to use ccBPM and BPM/BRM, ok ?
And when using the BPM/BRPM, how is the performance and benefits ?
Are the same when using single stack solution ?
Best regards!

Similar Messages

Difference between BPM, BRM, and BRF

Hi Experts,
I need your suggestion.
I am in a confution to learn Business Rules.
When I am searching for SAP Business Rules in net, i got Business Rules Management(BRM), Business Rules Framework(BRF) and Business Process Management(BPM).
My core module is SAP ABAP, and little bit working experience in WebDynpro ABAP.
What exactly the difference among these 3 modules i.e. BPM, BRM and BRF. What is the link among these 3 modules.
For my ABAP experience, any one suits. If it is which one is suitable and where can i find the exact material. What are all the tools required other than R/3.
Thanks in Advance.
Regards,
Chandu V

Hi Chandu,
pls take a look at [last year's TechEd slides about BRM and BRFplus.|http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/library/uuid/50a961f8-8dd7-2d10-8f9b-f20285870733] The slides are still valid.
BR,
Carsten

When to use BPM Standalone and BPM on Weblogic Server?

Hi,
How are you?
We are starting a project that involves BEA BPM, I have a question regarding which installation flavor should we go for, what is the difference between how BPM works when using Weblogic or Stand alone, what advantages are given when installing it over weblogic vs installing the Standalone version?
Thanx in Advanced!
Kind Regards,
Gerardo J

Hi Gerardo:
There are a lot of considerations about your question. The main difference is clearly the Aplication Server, while a Standalone version have an imbebbed TOMCAT 5.5 , the WL version requires at least Weblogic Server 8.2.
First, there is an important question that you must answer:
Your organization architectonical deployment supports Weblogic products? (weblogic, service bus, tuxedo, etc.)
Do you have a service bus? Does your organization / project this requirement?
Has your organization TOMCAT experience /support?
How many concurrent users your solution intends to support?
Is there experience about BPM's development?
Try to solve this initial questions. The decision isn't about the product, is about how do you plan to solve your organization business and IT needs.
Best regards,
Carlos
Translated
Hola Gerardo:
Hay un grupo de consideraciones sobre tu pregunta. La principal diferencia entre las versiones corresponde al uso del servidor de aplicaciones; mientras la version SA utiliza un Tomcat 5.5 embebido, la versión WL utiliza versiones superiores a la 8.2
Para resolver tu duda, debes al menos responderte estas preguntas:
¿Mi arquitectura empresarial de aplicaciones se integra a soluciones de weblogic?
¿Tienes un bus de servicios empresariales?
¿Tiene la organizacion experiencia en desarrollos de Tomcat?
¿Cuantos usuarios concurrentes utilizarán el sistema?
¿Hay experiencia en el equipo con la metodología de desarrollo para BPM?
Trata de resolver esto inicialmente. La decisión del producto no es por el producto en sí, sino que en realidad al producto que mejor se integre a la realidad que presente tu empresa, al solucionar el problema de negocio, de forma sustentable con tu estructura de TI.
Saludos y suerte,
Carlos.

Single stack vs. Dual Stack - Why does SAP recommend single stack?

Hello SAP,
I am a business partner who specializes in infrastructure consulting for SAP solutions. The SAP Consultants I am working with recently have been recommending that customers install single stack systems. I would like to know why? Are there problems with dual stack systems? Is SAP changing things in a later release and they want customers to be prepared for the change?
From an infrastucture point of view this recommendation combined with SAP NetWeaver architecture will result in an explosion of SID names which leads to an explosion of application server instances and DBMS instances and an explosion of installed servers. I know it is possible to combine SIDs into a single DBMS using MCOD and to have multiple application servers in a single physical server, but there are issues with mulitple application server instances and MCOD use which make normal maintenance operations difficult.
I think it would be much better for customers to install dual stack systems and simply adjust the SAP profile parameters to disable one stack or the other. This way, you could still have 1 stack per application server instance and you would not be have to be creative with SAP SID names!!! Creating a DBMS instance or installing an additional server is not a simple nor economical proposition.
Regards,
Zaz

I am a business partner who specializes in infrastructure consulting for SAP solutions. The SAP Consultants I am working with recently have been recommending that customers install single stack systems. I would like to know why? Are there problems with dual stack systems?
The problems are:
- difficult to size and maintain - Java + ABAP will fight for resources (memory,CPU) and there´s not much one can do to tune if either ABAP or Java as dual stack instance on a single box is running nuts (for whatever reason).
- System copies via R3load - if you want to copy a huge system (let´s say ERP 6.0 + Java stack) you need to use sapinst + R3load to do the copy. Imagine if the system is 1 TB or bigger, this is very time consuming
- Upgrades are complicated - if you upgrade a dual stack system you need to run two PREPARES and two upgrades at the same time - there are sync points each upgrade wait for the other to finish --> difficult to plan in sense of runtimes and even more notes/preparation to do (a dual stack SolMan upgrade from 3.2 to 4.0 had almost 100 notes (technical!) and two upgrade preparation guides...)
- interdependencies - example: you run ERP + EP + BI-Java on one system. You upgrade your BI (which is on a different box) to a new support package. Since the BI-Java need to be in sync with the BI ABAP support package you need to upgrade the EP too - and since there´s a direct dependency (doublestack system) you will need to install support packages on your ERP. So you finally end up in having dependency chains that a total different system (BI) will force you to upgrade/patch your ERP. And if you have e. g. a CRM connected to the same EP you will need to patch that too...
Is SAP changing things in a later release and they want customers to be prepared for the change?
No - the possibility of having a dual stack installation will be still there.
From an infrastucture point of view this recommendation combined with SAP NetWeaver architecture will result in an explosion of SID names which leads to an explosion of application server instances and DBMS instances and an explosion of installed servers. I know it is possible to combine SIDs into a single DBMS using MCOD and to have multiple application servers in a single physical server, but there are issues with mulitple application server instances and MCOD use which make normal maintenance operations difficult.
I agree - MCOD is not a good solution for this problem.
I think it would be much better for customers to install dual stack systems and simply adjust the SAP profile parameters to disable one stack or the other. This way, you could still have 1 stack per application server instance and you would not be have to be creative with SAP SID names!!! Creating a DBMS instance or installing an additional server is not a simple nor economical proposition.
There are 36 * 36 * 36 (minus a few reserved) names for SIDs- this should be enough - also for the biggest customers
Of course one could install both and disable the one you don´t need - but this won´t help in dependency thing. If you e. g. install a dual stack instance for CRM and disable the Java part, you can nicely run it. In case of an upgrade, you will need to upgrade the Java part too (see above) although you don´t use it. The upgrade will detect the doublestack and wait for the java instance to be upgraded too. Same is true vice versa. And believe me: you don´t want that
In fact it is better to separate - that´s at least our experience. The main no-go for such a configuration on our side was the dependency thing. Since they are there and you can´t do much about them we decided to have a 1:1 relationship for ABAP backend and Java "frontend". You will get more instances (and names and databases) but you can patch applications independently from each other. So an implementation of a BI patch won´t imply that you finally also patch your ERP production and other systems that connect to that portal.
There are virtualization techniques available to not need more boxes, you can consolidate them on one machine as if you were installing a dual stack so that is not really an issue. This depends, of course, on the platform and database you use (e. g. Oracle does not support production installations in VMWare). We use for our Java instances Solaris on Opteron (or Intel 64bit) and zones/containers and for the ABAP part we use Linux + Xen. Both virtualization methods come with the OS (so no additional $$$) and both are supported by SAP.
The propagated advantage of having a dual stack installation (shared memory access etc.) is so small that it doesn´t outban the additional complexity - which is definitely there.
I hope those arguments will help to understand SAPs (and the consultants) position - get back if you want more
Markus

How to implement a dual booting PXI system using windows 7 and labview RT

Good Day
My name is Mariano Ocana from the University of Manitoba, and I want to implement a dual system using windows 7 and labview RT in a PXIe-1082 chassis with a PXIe-8102 embedded controlled (the chassis came with windows 7 installed). What are the steps to use both systems (windows and RT) in the same chassis?, in the NI help comes an example implementing a dual system using windows xp and RT, it is the same procedure?.
Thank you in advance for all your help.
Regards
M. Ocana

Greetings, Mariano.
The real issue you have to contend with is whether or not you have a LabVIEW RT license. If the 8102 controller was purchased Windows-Only, you likely do not have a license to run LabVIEW RT on the controller - you can purchase one, I think it's about $500, and at that point you can request a LabVIEW RT Configuration CD (that's not what it's called, but the sales guy will know what I'm talking about). The Config CD is a CD that will partition your controller correctly with both FAT32 and NTFS filesystems (in the appropriate way) to allow you to run Windows 7 and LabVIEW Real-Time on the controller correctly. Once done, you can then switch within the BIOS between LabVIEW Real-Time and Windows in order to dual-boot.
Either way, you likely need to contact NI sales to either purchase an RT license (if one was not received at the time of purchase) or to request a Configuration CD (it might also be called a dual-boot install CD or similar).
-Danny

Blogg RFC scenario using BPM - starter kit (more detail on BPM required)

I follow this blog to the letter - because it is the same as my scenario:
/people/arpit.seth/blog/2005/06/27/rfc-scenario-using-bpm--starter-kit
The problem is I have no experience with BPM. I have setup the Integration process as I think it should be but I get an error.
Could one of you experts go through the BPM steps in more detail? Screen shots/details of the properties and containers on each step would be very useful. Thanks.

Hi Lynn!!
Check this SAP help for certain requirements when to use BPM:
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/cb/15163ff8519a06e10000000a114084/content.htm
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/08/16163ff8519a06e10000000a114084/content.htm
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/0e/56373f7853494fe10000000a114084/content.htm
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/11/13283fd0ca8443e10000000a114084/content.htm
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/ca/7c5c41fe06cf1ee10000000a155106/content.htm
http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/e8/8e2d4233c8db2ce10000000a1550b0/content.htm
Take a look at this blog by Michal,
/people/michal.krawczyk2/blog/2005/09/16/xi-how-to-test-your-mapping-in-real-life-scenarios
/people/krishna.moorthyp/blog/2005/06/09/walkthrough-with-bpm - Walk through BPM
/people/siva.maranani/blog/2005/05/22/schedule-your-bpm - Schedule BPM
/people/sriram.vasudevan3/blog/2005/01/11/demonstrating-use-of-synchronous-asynchronous-bridge-to-integrate-synchronous-and-asynchronous-systems-using-ccbpm-in-sap-xi - Use of Synch - Asynch bridge in BPM
https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/1403 [original link is broken] [original link is broken] [original link is broken] - Use of Synch - Asynch bridge in BPM
Check this weblog for a step by step procedure:
/people/krishna.moorthyp/blog/2005/06/09/walkthrough-with-bpm
/people/arpit.seth/blog/2005/06/27/rfc-scenario-using-bpm--starter-kit
or case study go thru this blog:
/people/krishna.moorthyp/blog/2005/06/09/walkthrough-with-bpm
for checklist:
https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/library/uuid/3bf550d4-0201-0010-b2ae-8569d193124e
Take a look at this blog for some very good guidelines on when to use BPM's and when not to use BPM,
/people/swen.conrad/blog/2006/12/22/xi-ccbpm-performance-under-perform-or-out-perform
Thanks !!
Pls reward if useful

How to separate ABAP+JAVA Dual stack in stand alone engins?

Hello SDN!
We are thinking about to separate our Dual Stack ERP 6.00 System on Windows/Oracle in two stand alone system Java und ABAP. Wie have afew small implementation in Dual Stack such as ESS and wie have no modifications at all.
Has somebody an expiearence with that? Knows somebody about some tools for such an action?
I will be very pleased for any help
With best regards
Vladimir

You may find attached link helpful and interesting
[Doublestack : separate JAVA Stack from ABAP Stack ...;

Nw-bpm and ccbpm

hi,
can someone explain to me the difference between nw-bpm ("galaxy") and ccbpm (part of nw-pi):
-> what is the usage for both?
-> how are they related?
-> will ccbpm be replaced by nw-bpm some time in the future?
-> for new projects, is it still recommended to use ccbpm?
thanks a lot for your help!
heiko

Hello Heiko,
to make it short:
ccBPM:
- special-purpose process engine for System-centric processes (orchestrate PI messages on the PI integration hub)
- BPEL-compliant
- no end-user involvement (--> no Human Tasks)
NetWeaver BPM:
- general-purpose process engine with a very good support of Human-centric processes
- standards-based (e.g. BPMN, WSDL, XSD, WS-Human Task, ...)
There is no explicit relationship between those two environments. Currently, the intersection of common use cases they cover is quite small, although this may change in the future.
Best regards,
Markus
Edited by: Markus Kinateder on May 6, 2009 11:15 AM

Can we use BPM inside ESR in SAP PO Java Stack?

Hi All, I had worked in dual stack SAP PO 7.3 also where I've used ccBPM. Now, I'm working in SAP PO 7.31 single stack environment. In ESR, under Process Integration Scenerio Objects -> i'm seeing 'Integration Process' and 'Monitoring Process'. Is it true that whatever we could do it in ccBPM(PO 7.30 dual stack) can be also done under the option Integration Process in SAP PO 7.31 single stack?
If the answer is true, then why do we need SAP NW developer studio to do BPM?
Thanks,
Raj

Hi Raj,
Please go through below document. It may help you in understanding the difference between ccBPM & NW BPM.:
http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/library/uuid/90308598-4b8d-2f10-4a9a-b78973859665?QuickLink=index&overridelayout=true&55357833497094
Regards,
Akshay

OSDB Migration using the migration monitor with dual stack

Hi
How can i use the migration monitor for dual Stack system. i knew that migration monitor use the R3LOAD. i never find using the JLOAD. how migration monitor export the Java.
Please advice me
Thank you
Vish

> We are using the NFS filsystem. its mounted the two systems.
Good!
> Can i know which ExchangeDir we need to use.
>
> i saw two of them
>
> 1. NetExchangeDir
> 2. FtpExchangeDir
So assuming that you have not read the documentation (which you really should):
- You need to create a separate directory on the NFS where both systems have access
- you need to configure the export machine as "server" (read the docs!)
- you need to configure the exchange directory on both export and import migmon
Markus

BI7 dual stack upgrade using 'resource minimised' method

Hi
I am upgrading a Windows 2003/MS SQL 2005 sandpit NW04 BI 350 dual stack (ABAPJAVA) to BI7 (NW04S ABAPJAVA) as a test before working on our actual landscape, I have started the ABAP upgrade and chose the 'resource minimised' method as downtime isn't an issue on the sandpit, I then started the upgrade on the Java stack, but then noticed in the documentation it states you should use 'downtime minimised' for a dual stack upgrade? the ABAP prepare recognised I had a dual stack and said it would be synchronised but never complained about the resource minimised choice ? the phases have been waiting for synchronisation so far without a problem.
Is this a problem? I can reset the upgrade, but its quite far through, so would rather not !
Thanks,
Paul.

Hello Paul
As you said, SAP state that you must perform a dual stack upgrade using strategy downtime - minimised. I had a problem when I used resource minimised but if your upgrade is running then donu2019t terminate it. If it works, thatu2019s great.
What I normally do is run strategy downtime minimised with an import time of zero hours.
Thank You
Anwar

PI 7.4 dual stack

Dear experts,
I understood PI 7.4 SP06 can be installed on dual stack ABAP+Java. If this is the case, what about ccBPM/BPM scenarios ? can support both ? only nwBPM/ccBPM ?
what about NWDS present version ?
Deva

Hi Deva,
In case there you are making use of Dual stack PI you CCBPM scenarios will work same as earlier dual stack PI versions. In case of Dual stack it will still be PI and not PO as PO comprises of Lone Java PI+ N/W BPM+ BRM on one system.
Also if you want to make use of N/W BPM it has to be installed seperately. Ideally you should go for lone Java if you want to make use of N/W BPM to minimise your hardware requirements.
Also NWDS version has to be less than or equal to the PI version being used.
Regards,
Sriram

PI system upgrade from 7.1 to 7.4 dual stack

Hi,
We want to upgrade PI system to 7.4 .currently we are using PI 7.1 system (dual stack)and want to go for 7.4 dual stack.
which one single stack or dual stack is the best approach and what are the impacts normally see when upgrading to newer version.
We are planning to install 7.4 freshly recomonded by SAP .
We need to migrate objects from older system to newer system?
I want to know the process from basis perspective also .
Import/export or migrate is the best way to move objects from older sytem to newer system.
Please suggest me any links about the process including basis point of view also suggestions for the approach.
thanks,
aman

>>>> which one single stack or dual stack is the best approach and what are the impacts normally see when upgrading to newer version.
I would prefer single stack considering the SAP's future road map but of course it depends on how much effort your company is ready to spend. Incase you have lot of CCBPM's then you'll have to redesign them using Netweaver BPM if you go with single stack.
As are going with fresh installation(migration) of dual stack then you don't need to invest much.
>>> We are planning to install 7.4 freshly recomonded by SAP .
We need to migrate objects from older system to newer system?
I want to know the process from basis perspective also .
There is wizard using which you can move the directory objects ( classical scenario's to Integrated configurations). Please use it for ID objects
Refer to the below blog for more details. (ignore blog's title. it's applicable for dual stack-> dual stack too)
Moving Integration Directory Artifacts from dual stack to single stack
For ESR you can simply export and import the tpz file.
>>> I want to know the process from basis perspective also .
They can simply follow the installation guide and execute the post installation steps properly.

Java Stack Vs Dual Stack in Pi 7.3

Hi experts.
I open this thread because I'd like to know your opinion about the newJava installation option in SAP PI 7.3. In previous realeses (7.0,7.1) I felt more comfortable and safe in abap stack and I'm a little afraid about working only with java stack.
I'd like to know advantages and disadvantages to choose java stack instead of dual stack, why you'd choose one of two options or both in your nexts customers.
Thank u so much and happy new year!!!!

Java Stack or Dual Stack in 7.3
Java Stack alone: Almost all standard adapters including HTTP, IDOC and Proxy are all available in this stack. you need to use Integrated Configuration object for this. You are basically going to use Advance Adapter engine alone for the entire processing.
Pros:
No persistance steps here. So you would improve performance many folds for sure.
Throughput is also improved very much.
since 7.3, Solution Manager is available for monitoring inaddition to RWB and NWA. So monitoring would not be issue.
If you are looking for real performance improvement, Single stack Java to go.
Cons:
Abap mapping is not supported.
Message split to multiple receivers are not completely supported.
BPM interfaces are not seamless migration here. SAP 7.1 and lower versions support BPEL wheras 7.3 supports BPMN standards. So you might have to tweak a bit to modify existing interfaces here
Dual Stack:
Your option is pretty open. If you need some specific interfaces to handle only java stack, still that is possible and increase the performance. Also if you have lot of existing interfaces that requires BPM interfaces, ABAP mapping , Multiple split /branching etc.
still dual stack is the better option now. Here developer decides according to the requirement.
Still safe mode is going for Dual Stack for now and change in the future to single java stack alone.

Dual Stack NW 7.0 installation with R/3 Backend as UME

I have a quick question guys. I am about to install a dual stack NW system with ADS(SQL server database on windows) and will use a R/3 Enterprise running on unix as the UME datasource. Now this R/3 enterprise backend already acts as bakend for Portal system and uses sap logon tickets and as such already has the user SAPJSF. Now when i actually perform the NW 7.0 installation and enter a master password during the course, would this override the SAPJSF user in R/3 backend system at all.
What are the general problems that are caused with using an existing ABAP only system as the UME for your Java stack(Dual stack actually) systems. Can you advise.
Regards
Kalyan

Hi,
Now when i actually perform the NW 7.0 installation and enter a master password during the course,
would this override the SAPJSF user in R/3 backend system at all.
NO....Not at all..
SAPJSF user is used for the communication between ABAP and JAVA stacks. SAPJSF user is an independent user of each independent ABAP stack.
ABAP data/user-store is the place where the users, roles and authorizations of an ABAP System are stored.
And with the same concept, the UME is the same mechanism for users, roles, permissions of an JAVA system.
After installation of your new NW ABAP+JAVA Stack, you will have to specify the SAPJSF user of ur old R/3 ABAP system which you want to use as User Data Store for ur Newly installed Java System's UME.
In ABAP System section u will have to provide all details of ur SAP R/3 application server, which ur portal is already using as User Data Store.
What are the general problems that are caused with using an existing ABAP only system
as the UME for your Java stack(Dual stack actually) systems. Can you advise.
It depends on the usage of your new application server.
Regards
Bhavik G. Shroff

PI 7.31 Dual Stack Using BPM/BRM and ccBPM

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