Please answer a programming question for an admin

Question

I'm not a programmer (although my interest is growing), so I can't answer this question in a discussion regarding how Win32API w/OLE and COM is SO much better than programming for Unix/OS X applications.
The original discussion was in regards to OS X's superior Unix based security, he devolved to this. Having only begun my venture into programming, his questions are a little above my head at this point. I'm also interested (as an amature programmer), how this would be accomplished in OS X/Unix.
Thanks in advance.
Here's his position:
*(1st entry)*
I have unsed Windows and many flavors of Unix and I have written programs in Assembler, Fortran, Pascal, Cobol, RPG, Smalltak, Basic, PowerBuilder, Delphi, C, C++, C#, Java, and Perl, and I have been programming for over 20 years, so I do have extensive knowledge about programming.
So I have one question for you:
If you had to build a business application that has to allow users to, spell and grammer check, and perform financial calculations, and render the HTML, how would you compare the effort to do this in Windows versus that in Linux, AIX, Solaris or any other Unix operating system?
I can make this business application have these features in ONE DAY on Windows, because COM and OLE lets me, use Word to spell and grammer check, Excel to do the financial calculations, and IE to render the HTML!
I make my living building complex customized business software, and Windows allow me to build these applications by myself in weeks, when it would take me and a team of programmers months to do these same things in Unix because of the lack of an the Win32 API, COM, and OLE, or I would have to BUY third party libraries that did these things, and deal with the licensing, versioning, and vendor problems that go with them, and none of those third party librabries would be close to Word, Excel, and IE in CAPABILITY!
HONESTLY tell me and others reading this thread how you would go about create the customized business application I described above by yourself in a Unix instead of Windows, and tell us how many MONTHS or YEARS it would take you, or how you would have to BUY some other third party libraries to do what Word, Excel, and IE!
Anyone who thinks a Unix has more CAPABILITIES than Windows, has never used Win32API/COM/OLE/.Net, and does not build customized complex business software for a living, because we people that do are the reason that you find some much customized business desktop software for Windows, and so little for any Unix.
I have nothing against Unix, and it is great for simple business tasked server software, but for complex business tasked desktop software Windows with Win32API/COM/OLE/.Net wins hands down!
*(2nd Entry)*
A System administrators view of an operating system and an application developers view are entirely different, and the Win32API/COM/OLE/.NET simply make my job so much easier, and you simply don't understand because you do not have to deal with the "dirty' details of making what a user wants, which is why your definition of "integration" and mines are totally different!
With the spell check you talked about, how will you keep in in synch with the dictionary in Word where the user is constantly adding and removing words?
No, you would have the user to have to maintain two different spell check dictionaries, and you would totally ignore the grammer check requirement!
Cutting and pasting data between applications is simple integration, and not the complex type that I am talking about.
Can you make your application display and use the MacGourmet menus appear in its own window, and to access and use the MacGourmet functionality (ie. search for a recipe) in its own window?
Give me one example of a Unix application that can display the menus of another application, yet alone control its features!
Of course you can't, because you need COM and OLE!
I am quite familiar with different flavors of Unix, but those operating systems do not have the rich API and program integration features namely COM and OLE that Windows has, because it violates the Unix idea of security by process isolation!
Yes that idea of process isolation keeps the operating system safe from malicious code in applications and from one application taking the others down, but you lose the power of programs working together, and you simply cannot build the type of customized business applications that I build by myself, without reinventing the wheel over and over and without having a large team with lots of programmers.
For example, my customers and millions of others spend all day working in Word and Excel, and the Windows idea that I can transparently integrate my complex business applications right in Word and Excel menu, and into their templates and macros, is why third party developers like me prefer Windows over Unix, regardless of how much better security in Unix is.
Do not get me wrong, Java improves business application development on Unix, but unfortuantely it is not feasable to rewrite ever legacy application in Java, and Java does not integrate well with other programming languages.
I used to code business application for both IBM MVS and Sun Solaris, and I never want to go back to those "bad" old days again, once I took the time to learn how to PROPERLY code using Win32API/COM/OLE/.NET!

Answer 1

At risk of feeding the troll I'll wander in here:
NOTE: Since this is an Apple programming boards and I have limited experience programming on traditional Unix systems (and most of that in college) I will confine my answers to the area I know.
If you had to build a business application that has to allow users to, spell and grammer check, and perform financial calculations, and render the HTML, how would you compare the effort to do this in Windows versus that in Linux, AIX, Solaris or any other Unix operating system?
I can make this business application have these features in ONE DAY on Windows, because COM and OLE lets me, use Word to spell and grammer check, Excel to do the financial calculations, and IE to render the HTML!
Note that this scenario assumes the user has Microsoft office installed. The person argues that they don't have to purchase libraries to program but what they are effectively doing is simply transferring that cost to user. I don't have to purchase libraries but everyone of my users needs to. Good for you, very good for Microsoft but bad for your customer - IMHO. OK, I know "But all Windows business users have Office installed already." When it comes free with the system then I'll retract my objection.
Under OS X and Cocoa many of these functions are intrinsic to the system layer and do not require any applications to be installed. Using Cocoa you can write a simple Word processor that has rulers, full font manipulation (including kerning, spacing and leading), Document Save and Load, Printing, Export to PDF as well as spell-checking in under 10 lines of actual code. Adding a custom file type and icon for full system integration will add another 5 minutes to your programing.
In case you think I'm blowing smoke here is a tutorial from 2002 (yes, this has been possible for over 5 years) outlining the 8 line Word Processor build in Cocoa. http://www.stone.com/TheCocoa_Files/What_s_sofunny.html
And yes, Cocoa also includes Webkit so I can add full HTML rendering by dragging in a WebKit window to my user interface. For an experienced Cocoa programmer this certainly sounds like less than a day of programming - in fact it sounds like a good tutorial for a middle-experienced training day or 2 day class in Cocoa.
I won't include the link to the 1 line web browser you can build in Cocoa using Webkit because it's shorter than the description. Feel free to search for it if you want to.
HONESTLY tell me and others reading this thread how you would go about create the customized business application I described above by yourself in a Unix instead of Windows, and tell us how many MONTHS or YEARS it would take you, or how you would have to BUY some other third party libraries to do what Word, Excel, and IE!
BUT this is all done from the stock system that is on every OS X computer not simply those with Office installed. Obviously you'd need to add some features that were more complicated than this - because any halfway decent programmer could turn this stuff out - and polish takes a while but to meet the requirements of the challenge it would take 2 days tops.
Is every *nix programming environment like this? I don't know I can only answer for the system that I have experience with and is the concern of this board. If you really have questions regarding *nix programming then I suggest you find an appropriate board and troll^H^H^H^H^H ask there.
If you're ever serious about programming on the Mac feel free to stop by and actually take a look at it. I think you'll be surprised.
=Tod