Plugin Delay Compensation, Stylus RMX & the UAD-1

Forgive me if this was answered previously, but I didn't really find anything when I searched the forum...
Anyways, Stylus is all in sync when it plays, but if I add a UAD-1 plugin to it it gets delayed and doesn't sync up anymore. I have the pda setting set to all and I tried 256 and 128 as my buffer. anyone have any ideas?

Use the delay compensation plugin on the UAD. AFAIR UAD doesn't handle latency compensation in the traditional means. (Report to host from Plugin)

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Plugin Delay Compensation, reverb busses & film scoring?

Hello,
When I score a film, the first thing I do is make sure the window burn time code in the film & Logic's time code are in sync for the cue I'm about to write in Logics sync settings. Once set, everything lines up perfectly when jumping around with the SPL. HOWEVER, as soon as I push play in the sequence, the movie will jump back a split second and then play, making the window burn and logics time code out of sync.
I discovered the reason this happens is plugin delay compensation for the reverbs I have on busses (I use UAD Dream Verbs on busses to save on CPU when composing to film). When I turn off plugin delay compensation, the movie plays back perfectly in sync (no jumping back), however now all the parts that are busses to the reverbs are playing back late!
So I'm in a conundrum. I cant turn off PDC because I use reverbs on busses, yet I cant keep it on because I cant sync to the film. I've heard from others to use movie playback from another system, but I personally don't see how this will help, because the movie will still be syncing to Logic's time code, which will tell it to start early on playback for plugin delay compensation, right?
I dont mind the jumping back for PDC, the main problem is syncing to time code/hit points. If my SPL when play is stopped is not using plugin delay compensation, there is no way to place a marker or hit point, because whatever I see when play is stopped will be wrong on playback when PDC kicks in! I would think the only solution is logic needs to constantly use Plugin Delay compensation, even when nothing is playing back!
Is this a problem with Logic 7 only or does it exist in 8 too? How do other sequencers use PDC? Its weird that I dont hear more people having problems with this, as right now its a guessing game scoring a film and hoping my hit points/TC will sync up!
Thanks in advance for your help! Its greatly appreciated!
Logic 7.2.3 OS 10.4 Dual 2.5 PPC G5

Jonathan Timpe wrote:
Perhaps I should just start using space designer? Does it suffer from the same PDC problems?
I personally haven't noticed any PDC issues with Space Designer, but if you do, you could always just use platinum verb to get a little wetness to the signal.
Perhaps I need to develop more "reverb imagination" skills and none of this would be a problem.
This may be a dangerous suggestion, but assuming you have a decent knowledge of the sound of a real orchestra, I would tend to compose with that in mind rather than exactly what your sample library sounds like. The goal, after you've done the bulk of the composing, is to try to get your library to sound as much like the real thing as you can. Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that film scores we composed with no MIDI at all, no immediate feedback on the sound of a motive, harmony etc. Obviously, if the end product is going to be in VIs instead of live instruments, you need to keep the sound of your library in mind. But ideally, you don't rely on hearing every little thing exactly as it will be on the track in order to compose. I know that's harder than it sounds, and I too am guilty of relying a bit too much on immediate feedback, but I think it's worth while. So rather than "reverb imagination," I'd suggest developing a better "instrument imagination," and let reverb be more of a finishing touch (albeit a very necessary one).
How do you deal with syncing back to the film? Sync pop & written time code sheet for when the pop occurs (without PDC of course)?
My methods for syncing back to film are much more basic than that. Firstly, I'd say most of the time I'm just sending audio tracks to the director with the SMPTE for the beginning of each track. If I am actually responsible for putting them together, I've just done it in iMovie, again, lining up each track with the SMPTE code for the film.
I should point out that I'm not exactly a pro at this (though I'm trying to get there), so someone else could probably offer better solutions.

Plugin Delay compensation not working correctly?

Hey guys,
I've noticed lately that the plugin delay compensation doesn't seem to be working like it should. I'm not sure if I'm going mad or not...
When I'm using Drumagog (drum replacement plugin), Logic is very good at dealing with the latency, even when increase the accuracy (therefore usually adding more latency). However, it doesn't seem to be doing that properly and I'm not sure why.
All my settings appear to be correct in the audio section and have checked the box to correct the latency in plugins and software instruments. My Mac is pretty snappy and can handle a lot, so the audio buffer is generally set very low at this point without adding any clicks and pops etc.
Any ideas?

James,
I think you're onto something there.
I have noticed too that the Logic 9 misbehaves from time to time when it comes to delay compensation. From my experience it happens when you create an average to large mixing project with a number of plugins on channels (possibly with settings dependent latencies).
What I have found is:
1. In some cases it over-compensates - that is the channel in question suddenly played ahead of the time even though visually it was aligned with the others (but in some other cases under-compensates).
2. I have noticed that saving the channel strip settings, resetting the channel strip and reloading the same setting rectifies the delay over-compensation. To me it appears that the "delay compensation" system does not recheck/recalculate the plugins current delays after any change is made in channel/plug-in (or even adding plugins, or does it only partially) - I do suspect that it gets screwed up when the plugin changes its latency based on its settings but Logic fails to recalculate.
As a fallback it would be extremely useful if there was an option in "Audio" sub-menu (for instance) to force Logic to re-assess (recalculate) the plugin delays (across the board) according to plugins current settings but it would be better if it detected correctly any change and recalculated it so we could rely on its correctness/integrity.
3. With such larger projects the sound comes out noticeably later than the play-head's position is which makes it very hard to locate precisely positions in your track.
These problems did not seem evident in Logic 8, but have to admit I haven't run as large projects in Logic 8 as I'm doing now in Logic 9 (80-100 tracks with 2-6 plugins in some channels).
Apple, please, fix these latency compensation discrepancies/issues as it can really byte back when the customer gets back to you saying that this or that track seems to be out of sync (subtly but it is). It is unworkable to having to verify the raw recordings if the delays are in the recordings or introduced by Logic.
Hope this info helps.
Regards
Gabe

Plugin Delay Compensation

Hi Cats,
I started using L8 about 3 weeks ago, I came from Nuendo and Digital Performer. I have to say I really like Logic but for the life of me can't believe Apple has not implemented full PDC (properly)
Coming from other DAWS this is something I've taken for granted for years now,.
I've read so many different views on how it should be used,.even Apple tech support has created a vauge picture for me.
I'd like to monitor through Logic, gtr tracks going down (Verb in cans as send) against playback of an external Midi Motif ES, (which I have set up as an external instrument) cool ! btw
And soft synths on playback....
I have PDC set to "All"
Can someone please explain what I need to do in this scenario, if possible explain it so a 5 year old could understand it!
Thanks Guys
Best
HT

...good salesmen not always are good tech support. But he told you the official solution (a workaround in fact)...
Apple`s idea is that we have to route our external synths inside Logic to benefit of the advantages of a digital mix (and the advantages of being in tempo...). I can`t understand why I can`t use Logic Audio with MIDI properly when mixing in analog. I don`t want to mix ITB. plain and simple... and I want my synths to play in line with the audio... is that difficult to program? is it ask too much for a Pro app?. I can think several ways of doing this... the first one is doing it right...which I think it´s not the case, but short of that maybe we can have MIDI delayed also when set PDC to All...or a new seting called All But MIDI for those ITB mixers with external synths (They can call it All Classic...:) ). But Lot of us were asking for this since years... no luck ATM... that`s latency
BTW: Video is out of sync also if I`m not mistaken...

Plugin Delay Compensation & Bounce

I'm trying to nail some sync issues between my studio and a Post Production house...
What is the correct setting for PDC when bouncing... All or Off?

Thanks...
Yeah did some testing and came to the same conclusion... thanks again

Logic 8 with TDM Hardware, Delay Compensation?

Hi all,
Okay I have a session which has come in on Logic. I'm thinking of finishing it off in Logic rather than transferring it to tools. So have Apple finally added Delay Compensation on the TDM side or are we still back in the dark ages of shifting regions/inserting duplicate plugins etc... ? I haven't used the Logic/TDM combo for a while so if anyone out there has some tips that would be much appreciated.
cheers
M.

Sadly no plugin delay compensation on TDM side. Otherwise Logic TDM working fine (with all the latest versions).

Logic 7.01: UAD-1, delay compensation

First question is this. If I would be using anything besides 7.01 that would fix all my problems regarding plugin delay...right?
Second question if I remain with 7.01 and when using UAD-1 card, If I use 2 UAD plugs on track 1 do I need to apply a UAD-1 sample delay plugin set to two samples for every other track in my song that does not have a UAD plug?
While I am at, does the PDC in 7.01 only work for tracks and not busses?
I know this is the approach for Pro Tools LE, didn't know if it was the same for Logic 7.01
Thanks

Hi
Full implacation of PDC is not a Logic feature ! what we have is an antiquated version of PDC, we have had a fix to PDC in 7.1 ( as an after thought to a much requested feature ) the next Logic paid for upgraded is expected to included the full program re-write that is neaded for Full PDC, but in Apples defence Logic 7.1 does go someway to fixing the the problems you are incurring with UAD, at the moment Logic is playing catch up but I'm sure it will roll some eye's with the next release ( maybe we'll get some of Studiovision pro's fully working features )
TTFN
Subcoustic
G5 2Ghz DP 4 Gig Ram Mac OS X (10.4.3) Magma 4x Uad's Powercore Pci & Firewire, Mackie Onyx 1640 firewire
G5 2Ghz DP 4 Gig Ram Mac OS X (10.4.8) Motu2408III & 24io Magma 4x Uad's Powercore Pci & Firewire, Mackie Onyx 1640 firewire
G5 2Ghz DP 4 Gig Ram Mac OS X (10.4.3) Motu 2408III & 24i0 GenX96 Magma 4x Uad's Powercore Pci & Firewire, Mackie Onyx 1640 firewire

Stylus RMX on MPB 2.2 ghz 4 GB RAM???

Hi all,
I’m thinking of getting Stylus RMX for use in Logic 8. I’m running a Macbook Pro 2.2 ghz with 4 GB RAM. On a typical song, I have about 5 or 6 audio tracks with effects, 1 or 2 soft synths running (UB, EXS24), and 4 aux busses with verbs and delays.
Was wondering if anyone here with my setup was running Stylus RMX without hiccups and excessive memory hit. – have read in a couple of posts that it strains CPU pretty hard. I’m thinking of using it to replace UB, and hoping it won’t bog the Mac down.
Thanks for your insight.
aka-zero

Get it, you'll be fine.
If you insist on running 8 parts, with multiple edit groups, and put multiple FX chains on each edit group it will strain any computer. But under "normal" use, it's fine.

Odd Multi-Channel Leakage with Stylus RMX...help please

Ok, so I've been to the Stylus site, I got the nice little pdf explanation of how to set up a Stylus as a multi-instrument, works like a charm, but then I went to set up my multi-channel set up so that I can add some Logic plugs to individual Stylus elements and heres what happens:
I have 4 elements going in one Stylus instrument, each has it's own track on the arrange now, but I want to get it to aux's so I've sent Djembe's which is the first element out B of the Stylus mixer which translates to Stylus RMX 3/4, no problems so far. Until I play back. When I play the Djembes back I notice this. That almost all of the Djembe slices are playing through Aux 1 (which is receiving B from Stylus as Stylus RMX 3/4), but not all of the slices, some in fact are still playing through the Audio Instrument track. This is not good, as it means I don't get the desired affect of being able to effect each element individually. Has this happened to anyone else, am I missing something blatantly obvious? Pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated, as always, thanks in advance,
Graham
ps - the Djembe element was just an example this problem is occuring in all situations where I've tried to set up a multi-channel Stylus arrangment

Hi Jim,
you were 100% correct, I'd been fiddling with the edit groups while I was watching the video on edit groups to get a feel for it, and see how it works, it's an amazing tool.
However, here is another follow up question, it seems that although now I've gone through my settings and made sure that each element is sending to A, B, C or D respectively, the Aux's ie delay or flange, on appears on the original instrument track (out A). I've gone over and over this in the edit groups and they are all selected to send to B, C, or D only, but the effects seem to default to A and I can't figure out for the life of me where I can change that. Any ideas on this one. It works like a charm right now until I add stylus effects to the elements then it gets a bit messed up again. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, you get points for your last reply! Cheers,
Graham

Plugin Delay Times

Can anybody help me with this problem....
Does there exist a list of delay compensation times for various plugins,
au multiband compressor and the like.
I have a bit of a nightmare going on between acoustic Guitar rhythm and lead tracks.
I would prefer to move the track manually rather than compensate with another plugin.
B Taylor
G5 Duel Processor Mac OS X (10.4.2)

do it manually, by ear.
shift the audio regions by placing the anchor accurately, and dragging them into place in the arrange.
until all the delays are sorted, manually's the best way.

Delay compensation breaks when sidechaining to a multi-out instrument Aux.

This problem is reproducible on any system and all versions of Logic 8 or 9.
It's a common practice to insert a Logic compressor on a bass track and set the sidechain to a kick drum sent to a bus. So if your drums are coming from a multi-output virtual instrument and the source for the sidechain is NOT the main outs, then automatic delay compensation breaks. Unfortunately, this means you can't sidechain to any additional outputs. Your kick has to be on the main instrument channel outputs, sent to a bus, which the sidechain points to. Otherwise, no go.
Delay compensation is not correctly implemented on Effect plugins loaded as instruments either. Roger Nichols' SPL-izer relies on the same architecture as the above scenario in that its main output is generally muted and its three other stereo outputs are sent to Aux channels (three frequency bands). If any of those are set as objects for sidechaining, the same thing happens as with the kick/bass situation.
The bottom line is that I really hope this is fixed in the next update to Logic. It's been a long wait. There are many situations in which I need more than one sidechain to more than one drum output. Currently that requires a new instance of a drum source.

Alien Implant wrote:
I'd be interested in what you experience if you try my scenario as I described >it, with the Logic compressor on a bass track with the sidechain pointing at a >bus with an Aux channel (any output other than the instrument mains) of Ultrabeat >loaded as a multi-instrument (12 or 16 outputs or whatever max it allows).
Well, I created the same conditions with UB using three drum pads - Kick, ClosedHH and OpenHH routing them as Auxes from the multichannel UB instance.
The Kick Aux is routed thru Bus 1 feeding the sidechaing of the Bass (ES1) Compressor, while the Closed HH feeds the sidechain of the (ES2) Noise Gate chopping the ES2 strings patch.
I exported a short non-voice over video just to show you that there are no timing side-chain issues ( this is most audible with the Nose Gate strings chopping ). Have a look at the video below.
*Sidechain Timing test* - [QUICK VIDEO|http://audiogrocery.com/video/sidechain_test.zip]
!http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4967/aglogo45.gif!

Stylus RMX not working correctly.

I have been using this plug in on PPC machine with Logic Pro 8.0.1 before. After I upgraded my system to MBP, I open up this project, and Stylus RMX track won't play multi-channel regions. I don't mean the multi-output.
I have setup 5 channels and 5 tracks, all assigned to corresponding MIDI channels. The problem is that only the MIDI region on channel 1 plays, and it triggers all 5 channels! On top of that, if I mute the channel 1 track, rest of the track (2-5) won't trigger the sample at all. Another problem is that even though RMX is set to sliced beats, it plays the whole **** loop, as if it were on groove mode.
This is really annoying and the whole production is halted just because of this one plug-in error. Could someone please help me?
My system:
MBP 2.4G
4GB ram
Leopard 10.5.2
Logic Pro 8.0.1
Stylus 1.6.0
PS : everything worked just fine with my previous system.....

Hi G,
I suppose you have the last drivers (universal) for RMX?
What did spectrasonics say?
Jorge

I recently moved all my logic audio sessions to a back up hard disk. Also updated to Loin OSX. My Stylus RMX is not working. I get a message Missing Element on Part 1...Currently not installed on their computer or has been moved to a different folder. An

I recently moved all my logic audio sessions to a back up hard disk. Also updated to Loin OSX. My Stylus RMX is not working. I get a message Missing Element on Part 1...Currently not installed on their computer or has been moved to a different folder. Any help out there?

Hi
Sounds like you may have moved the RMX library folder?
Is RMX fully updated (for Lion)?
Check your hard drives for a file called SAGE:
It (or an alias of it) is normally found in the <USER>:Library:Application Support:Spectrasonics.
Note that on Lion, the <User> Library is 'hidden'... quickest way to get there is to hold down Option (Alt) whilst using the Finder:Go menu
CCT

Stylus RMX to L7 question

Hi all
I am using Stylus RMX in L7.1, and currently have six tracks in RMX’s “mixer” page which I have set up in RMX, and want to play as 6 different Audio Instrument tracks in L7.1. I have no problem with copying over the midi files, but they play all back in L7 using the same voicing rather than as individual voices. I am missing something, can you spot the error?
cheers
G5 Mac OS X (10.3.5) Logic, Cubase, POD

Good morning Alex,
Here's an expanded version of my second easier(?!) method to try.
1>Select an audioInst in the arrange window. In the audioInst info box (on the left side above the fader window) select "Midi C:" and drag the #1 down until it reads "all"
2>Open RMX as a Multi on that same audio Inst.
3>Select a groove element that you want in RMX 1(click to highlite the "1" button in the lower part of the RMX Plug-in window).
4>Drag and drop the midi groove into the AudioInst track you're using for RMX.
5>Click on the next track in the arrange window and open it as the SAME AudioInst again. ie: if you used AudioInst 1 in step 1 above open AudioInst 1 again below it.
6>repeat step 3 only click the "2" button on the RMX plug-in window instead of "1" and then select a groove element.
7>Click on the "mixer" button of the RMX window. Leave element 1 on output "A". Change element 2's output to "B".
8>Go to the Audio mixer in Logic. Find an "Aux" object. Logic defaults to 2 of these and they're usually between the row of AudioInst tracks and the Bus tracks. In Aux 1 click on the "input" button (the upper button in the I/O area). In the selector window that opens you'll see "Input >", "Bus>" and at the bottom "Instrument 1>". clicking on the "Instrument 1" area will open and you'll see "Stylus RMX 3", Stylus RMX 4 etc.. up to #16. If your Aux object is set to be Stereo you'll see "Stylus RMX 3-4", 5-6 etc down to 15-16.
9> Once you select "Stylus RMX 3-4", ANY groove element that is set to output "B" in the RMX mixer page shows up at this Aux object and NOT at AudioInst 1.
10> Continue adding more of the same AudioInst tracks to the arrange window in logic and using the Aux tracks to seperate out RMX's outputs. You can assign the Aux's to whatever outputs in Logic you want even the same as the original AudioInst if you want. Levels, pans etc can be set from the RMX mixer page.
11> Before you ask: NO you cannot access seperate outputs from a "Multi" inst without using the Aux tracks. Thats just the way it is with Logic for now 8^)
The reason this may not be the preferred method for everyone is things get confusing in the arrange window with a whole pile of the SAME AudioInst tracks and if you want to edit the groove (midi info) you have to change the midi channel of the AudioInst from "All" to the number of the groove element in RMX then change it back to "All" to be able to hear all the elements again. If you're never altering the groove elements outside of RMX and just want to hear the outputs seperated this method could be okay for you.
My apologies if I stated the obvious in some of the steps. When trying to explain something like this you never know how much the other person knows or understands already.
Hope this works (it did for me and I was doing the steps as I wrote about them)
Eddie
G5 Dual 2.5GHz Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Stylus RMX and Logic Express

Hello,
I'm using stylus rmx with LE. I'm stuck. I'm tryin to create a "multi-track", (I believe thats what its called). Right now I'm following a instructional dvd and the instructor just wire 8 tracks to 1 in the enviro window. So I followed and drew all the wires to the 8 inputs. Then back in the arrange window, (and heres where I get lost). He fella goes to the "track" option and selects " create with new instrument". Now he creates * tracks from the 1 pug in. I'm assuming that he's using Logic Pro because I dont have that option. Is there another way to acheive this without that option ?

Right now I'm following a instructional dvd
and the instructor just wire 8 tracks to 1 in the
enviro window. So I followed and drew all the wires
to the 8 inputs.
This doesn't sound right. You should be creating a multi-instrument in the Environment with 8 channels enabled, not 8 individual instruments. There only needs to be one multi-instrument assigned to a single instrument track (one wire) in the environment. Make sure to assign the midi channel to "all" for the instrument object, but enable the first 8 channels on the multi-instrument object.
Then, when you're back in the Arrange page, you can create a new instrument track for the Stylus L/R audio output and then create new midi tracks assigned as sub-channels to Stylus. Each sub-channel will then control a different part in Stylus.
There is a Quicktime video you can download for free from Spectrasonics that walks you through setting up Stylus in Logic. Maybe your DVD makes it harder than it needs to be...
Dual 2.5Ghz 2004; 2.5GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Plugin Delay Compensation, Stylus RMX & the UAD-1

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