Possibly dead CMOS battery

Good evening all,
I'm the proud owner of a Powerbook G3 "Wallstreet" computer, model no. M7109LL/A. I haven't used the laptop in some time and I noticed that now each time I power up the computer the date and time resets. I believe this may be a failure of the CMOS battery but when I removed the keyboard to get to the guts of the system I couldn't locate such a battery. I can confirm that the date and time will reset only when the unit is unplugged from the wall and the main battery has definately failed as it will not charge nor will the computer draw power from it.
Can anyone tell me what this root of the problem is and perhaps how I may go about resolving it? Thank you!

Vivian,
The Wallstreet does have an internal, rechargeable backup battery for maintaining PRAM, time/date, etc; its main purpose is to allow a short period of sleep while swapping out main batteries. Here is an article describing it:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24801?viewlocale=en_US
If your main battery is dead and you unplug the power adapter, a new, fully charged internal battery will only last a few hours. Replacing this battery requires almost a complete teardown. Your only solution is to replace the main battery or always keep the powerbook connected to the adapter. A fully charged main battery will maintain the same settings as does the internal backup battery, and its capacity will do so for weeks with the powerbook turned off.

Similar Messages

Possible dead Wallstreet battery

Okay, I've got a 233 mhz Wallstreet. I run it now & then. last time was about a month or so ago.
The battery's not bad. No clock battery, so it tends to drain the battery keeping the settings when shut down.
Last time, it was fine, provided a good 1 1/2 hours of activity. However, I just started it again today, and no juice at all, no charging either. The media bay control strip shows no indication that the system is even detecting the battery - it says the bay is empty. Floppy modules are detected, and the cd bay doesn't detect it either.
Add to that, the battery doesn't even have the blinky "I'm about to die" single light anymore.
So, I'm guessing it might be permanently deceased, but I'd like to know for sure before I go and buy a replacement.
Is there any way to sort of jump-start it? I ran Battery Reset, and that had no effect.
If the battery sits unused and uncharged for a while, can it drain beyond it's ability to work?
Thanks

Good Morning, Andrew,
Thanks for the forgiveness.
My friend whose three Wallstreets I maintain has two batteries that were original to the computers, bought in 1998, and they are still good for a couple of hours. Pretty amazing. System Profiler does not report on these old machines like it does with newer ones so all I have to go by is that they still run light-duty (web mail and surfing) tasks for a couple of hours. The new one from Global (the link I posted) reads around four hours.
Yes, you can certainly ignore these items if you are running the unit as a desktop machine. The PRAM battery is cheaper (I installed two of these) and would be useful in case of a power failure or a full main battery meltdown. Although the info around here is that the PRAM battery can be dead and not cause problems, I found two problems in working on the WSs that went away after i put in new PRAM batts:
1) One computer would not give a display if I booted from retail OSX install disks, Apparently, OSX wanted a different screen resolution than OS9 for the installer, and OS9 could not hold the res settings with a dead PRAM batt. New battery--no more problems.
2) One computer whose battery would work normally in the computer with the new PRAM battery would not work properly in a computer that had the original PRAM batt. The computer would shut down immediately on going off wall power with the main batt reading 100 percent. It would then read zero, then would not charge at all. Then I'd come back to the computer a short time later and find it showing 100 percent and the cycle started all over again. Still the battery worked flawlessly in the two other machines. The owner insisted I install a new PRAM battery even though all the symptoms pointed to a bad power card or PMU. Whaddayouknow? The main battery behaves normally now in that machine, too. That one blew me away. I had no clue that this would help and, to this day, cannot quote you a technical reason for this success.
Installing a new PRAM battery is a semi-pain in that you have to pop the top deck to get to it. The old machines develop brittle plastic after so many years and the odd of breaking some delicate part of the top deck is rather high.
If you are interested in reviewing the steps involved in changing the PRAM batt, review this most excellent take-apart guide:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/PowerBook-G3-Wallstreet/3
Clicking any photo therein gives you a nicely magnified view.
Not for the faint of heart, to be sure and requires a modified #00 Phillips screwdriver and a small Torx driver.
If the WS is not mission-critical, using it as a desktop for old times sake may be a good approach.
Regards,
Allan

Compaq Presario S4500UK Won't start after wall-socket disconnect. Is this a CMOS battery issue?

Recent software rebuild with additional internal HDD (March 2011) as dual-boot WinXP/Linux setup worked fine. CD/DVD RW drive started to give cyclic redundancy check errors so replaced drive a week ago. All still OK. Change of electricity provided and increased energy usage conciousness switched off machine at the wall overnight after normal shutdown. Machine would not restart in the morning. Did not load BIOS; all lights came on briefly and then went dead after 3-4 seconds with power light still on. One can get a similar effect by plugging the keyboard into the PS2 Mouse Socket as I did once!
After 20 minutes or so trying all sorts of things managed to boot from Linux CD. Shut down/restarted and all's fine provided I don't switch off at the wall. Also seems to be OK after brief 5-10 second power off but problem persists with any long disconnection. It seems that after 10-15 minutes power-on and 2-3 attempts at restarting, the BIOS comes up and all's well, although it has stopped in the middle of a Windows or Linux start-up on one or two occasions.
Am I right in thinking the problem might be the result of a dead CMOS battery? The reason I ask is that the clock seems to keep time OK and there are no apparent issues with BIOS once it loads.
Any help/guidance would be much appreciated. Further config info below.
Compaq Presario S4500UK Bios v3.03 dual boot WinXP Pro SP3 / Linux Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid (2.6.32-33)
HDD 120GB (original Seagate Barracuda 7200) Master Boot Record, Partition Table, WinXP, Linux, Swapfile etc
           500GB Western Digital Caviar Blue (encrypted)
CD/DVD ROM (original JLMS XJ-HD166S)
           Recently installed HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22NP21 replacing NEC ND-1100A
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I didn't get any replies so I went ahead with replacing the CMOS battery but that hasn't helped. The problem is also evident if I power down and leave it for about an hour or more before trying to restart even if I don't disconnect the wall socket. It seems to take about 15-20 goes at restarting before it fires up. I would be really grateful for any clues as to what's wrong.
Tks
jg1
This question was solved.
View Solution.

Still no replies to my increasingly ticklish problem so I'll give you the benefit of further investigations in case it prompts some words of wisdom...
So it's not the CMOS battery. Other symptoms emerge...
1.    "Crashes" are absolute, immediate and without warning - just like someone turned the lights out.
2.    "Crashes" also happen occasionally when firing up Truecrypt using the "Auto-Mount Devices" option but thus far have not occured when selecting the required device first.
3.    The problem appears to be getting worse in that it takes longer to persuade the machine to start from cold.
4.    If I remove one of the HDDs the machine boots up fine - or it has so far (about 10 times after power disconnect for 1hr or more).
This makes me start to suspect the PSU. I've done the diagnostic checks on the HP website
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=110&prodSeriesId=...
and it appears that the Power Supply is working just fine but if I remove a device not required at boot-up the thing will fire up first time. My analysis seems to suggest that the existing PSU (Lite-On PS-5251-08HP) rated at 250W is working at near capacity but it cannot service the peak loads when the HDDs spin up during boot-up.
Can anyone confirm this, pls?
If this is the case, can anyone suggest a suitable upgrade? There's loads of product out there with prices ranging from £15 to £150 but as I'm a bit of a numpty and I don't seem to be able to narrow the choice down sensibly. I've tried going through the info on the HP website and various tech forums/fora without getting very far. It would be brill if there's someone out there that knows the product and could share their knowledge.
Tks in anticipation!
jg1

DEAD CMOS??

Hi. I've been in England for 18 months and my MacPro has been sitting! It hasn't been started since I left. IF if doesn't start when I boot it next week could it be a dead CMOS battery? If so, how do I change the battery and bring my Mac back to normal? Any help will be greatly apprecaited.
Thanks
Mac

Not completely sure but if the battery is dead as long as the computer is plugged in to AC it should boot. ,The CMOS battery really only keeps the clock running. Worst thing that can happen is the date will be something like 1991 or something really strange.
Depending on how old the system is the battery may recharge once you plug it into the AC.
Don't know exactly where that battery is located, specifically. But it is on the motherboard and fairly visible.

Possible CMOS Battery problem with my Satellite 1405-s151

I have a satellite 1405-s151. Since July it won't start. when i turn it on the green lignts is on but nothing else happens. however it sometimes starts with a bad checksum (ROM) or Cmos error.
someone told me that it could be a dead the cmos battery.
what u think about this ? i live in senegal and there is no toshiba center

Hi
I don't think this is a problem with the CMOS-battery. If it is defective or has a low voltage, the machine will give this error message, BUT it will never have a problem booting up because of it. A defective battery will make the system lose track of time and date and possibly some settings You might have made in the SETUP but when the unit starts and gives the error message (You have to press F1-key to continue) the default settings will be set and they are good enough to make the system boot. I suggest You remove any hardware You might have added to the unit (memory, PC Cards and so on) and try again. If it still fails then I think Your machine is defective and need service.
best regards
Tom

CMOS battery dead

First post here so please forgive me if this is the wrong forum...
I had a "CMOS checksum" error message on boot yesterday after a successful POST. I'm reliably informed I need a new CMOS battery so I'm going to replace this. However, I'm at work at the moment so I can't take the case off and so...
The board serial number is 6729. What battery do I need to get? Is it soldered or can I remove easily?
Many thanks.

these are all the images i took while working on my laptop"
cpu before i claned the old paste off
heat dink before i cleaned the paste off, forgot to take an aftershot...
just showing how clean the cpu was before i added new past, like a mirror =]
litterally like a mirror...
i didnt realize that the gpu (i think this is it), didnt have a heat sink, or is the gpu part of the phennom ii cpu? i'l have to check....

Equium A210 - CMOS battery replacement possible?

My Toshiba Equium A210-1C4 appears to be having a CMOS battery problem in that it does not keep the BIOS settings.
I have bought a replacement main power battery and a/c adapter to rule out a/c power issues but the POST beaps and CMOS keeps coming up a Checksum error and once in the BIOS and save settings it boots successfully but if the laptop restarts or is switched off it does it all over again. I have also updated the BIOS successfully so it is not the BIOS chip. The only thing I can think of is replacing the CMOS battery - can this be done?
I have read that some are soldered on? Would Toshiba service this laptop to replace the CMOS battery / check for faults - if so, how much would it cost, or can someone else do it as the laptop is out of warranty.
Any advice please?

Hi Emases2010,
As far as I know some batteries are fixed/soldered on mainboard and cant replace but I think only a notebook technician can give you a detailed answer.
Normally you can charge the CMOS battery if you leave the AC/DC adaptor connected over night or in best case 24 hours. After this the battery should be fully charged.
Check this!!!

Envy x360 battery short and CMOS/RTC | No dedicated CMOS battery = Kafkaesque HP support nightmare

Relevant Case Number:
3015038426
Caveat:
If I'm wrong about this, I'll eat my hat with a sauce made of ultra-expensive brand-name HP ink.
Question:
Does anyone at HP want to take reponsibility for a series of the company's tech support representatives giving horribly wrong hardware information, wasting customer time and money?
Summary:
1. I have apparently experienced a short in my main battery.
2. In the x360, the real-time clock (RTC) and BIOS settings are apparently powered by the main battery, not a separate CMOS/RTC battery.
3. (1) and (2) explain why my symptoms include a CMOS checksum error and 0-set RTC on boot.
4. Three separate HP representatives have been absolutely insistent that:
(a) I have a CMOS/RTC battery that just isn't disclosed in the service manual.
    (b) My symptoms indicate the need for CMOS/RTC battery replacement.
    (c) This requires a 2-week+ send-in service, even though I live right next to an authorized support center.
    (d) A much less intrusive main battery replacement could not help me, since I have a CMOS issue.
5. I have already had to pay $54 and change for a local shop to confirm that HP support has been, for want of better terms, full of it -- they have been BSing me by phone and live chat, and there is no dedicated CMOS battery.
6. Because of HP's intransigence, I now face the choice of either
    (a) paying another $54+ to get myself a new main battery on the open market
         or
    (b) completely unnecessarily going without my primary work machine for weeks in order to get a new main battery for free from HP. That's assuming that the people at the service center know that replacing the motherboard won't do anything for this machine.
Hilarious and/or Depressing Support Record:
1. Symptoms
This is an HP Envy x360 15t hybrid notebook, model u011dx (G6T85UA).
It had been suspended but suddenly appeared off. It would not power on until AC power was attached.
It showed a CMOS checksum error (502) on boot, and its real-time clock did not hold the time between power cycles.
It had inconsistent problems with failed or severely delayed POST completion.
If AC power was removed during operation, it immediately died. Information about the main battery still showed up in the OS, where it appeared fully charged but never discharged at all.
The light next to the AC plug would often blink blue depending on the power state.
The machine could POST normally (except for the CMOS and RTC failures) with the main battery physically detached.
2. Call ("Amit")
I don't have a transcript of my initial call with HP ("Amit"), but here is the gist of it. My 502 CMOS checksum error implicates the CMOS battery. My steps are to attempt a BIOS upgrade. Failing that, the computer would need to be sent in for service so that the CMOS battery could be replaced. Amit described it to me as the shape of a small tablet.
3. False Hope
When I had initially called, the case was off of the PC and both sides of the motherboard were accessible so that I could try to see if there were any visually obvious problems with the CMOS/RTC battery. Naturally, I couldn't find it, and I had hoped the call would help me. In any case, Amit would need to call back in 60-90 minutes after I had the chance to take care of other things and re-connect the machine's components so that I could boot it and do a BIOS upgrade.
Just before he called back, the machine appeared for one or two power cycles to have overcome its problem. It even seemed like it was drawing main battery power for a few moments during a session with AC power detached. Amit closed the case for me pending the problems recurring.
I concluded that one of the following two things must have happened. Either:
    (a) All of the problems were related to the main battery, and the main battery connector had just gotten jarred loose so that one or two pins were not contacting properly. By disconnecting and reconnecting the main battery in my search for the RTC/CMOS battery, I had solved the issue by reseating it properly.
or
    (b) All of the problems were related to the CMOS battery. But by having it on AC power for testing for a little while, I had charged the CMOS battery enough to enable POST and for it to mediate the transition from AC to battery power (I know this probably isn't how it should work, but hey).
I also updated the BIOS to the newest version so that I could ensure I was following the pre-shipment troubleshooting step set out by Amit.
Fairly quickly after the second call and the closing of the case, all of the symptoms recurred. I carefully re-checked and re-seated the main battery to rule out (a) above. I then decided to run the computer on AC power for several hours to test theory (b) above. When this failed, I went back to the HP site and opted for chat support.
4. First Chat (KARISHMA BARPANDA)
Gist:
I clearly have a problem with my invisible CMOS battery. Also, this CMOS battery is absent from the manual because it isn't supposed to be user-removable, not because it doesn't exist. Note especially the exchange at 2:02.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
1:38 PM  Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.
1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.
1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi
1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?
1:38 PM  Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 3015038426
1:38 PM  Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused
1:39 PM  Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?
1:40 PM  Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model
1:42 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.
1:43 PM  Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?
1:43 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.
1:44 PM  Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?
1:45 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !
1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair.
1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code.
1:46 PM  Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem
1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.
1:47 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery,
1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?
1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable.
1:48 PM  Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?
1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook.
1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection
1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it
1:50 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain.
1:51 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check.
1:52 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments.
1:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Thank you
1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.
1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.
1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04513489
1:57 PM  Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time
1:57 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery
1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it.
1:59 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there.
1:59 PM  Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 41
1:59 PM  Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf
2:00 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue.
2:01 PM  Adam Colligan: Sigh.
2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.
2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks
2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part.
2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?
2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?
2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide
2:05 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it.
2:06 PM  Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.
2:10 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?
2:11 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?
2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?
2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?
2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.
2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?
2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.
2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty
2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.
2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.
2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.
2:28 PM  Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?
2:30 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
1:38 PM  Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?1:38 PM  Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 30150384261:38 PM  Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused1:39 PM  Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?1:40 PM  Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model1:42 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.1:43 PM  Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?1:43 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.1:44 PM  Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?1:45 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair. 1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code. 1:46 PM  Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.1:47 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery, 1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable. 1:48 PM  Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook. 1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it1:50 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain. 1:51 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check. 1:52 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments. 1:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Thank you1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c045134891:57 PM  Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time1:57 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. 1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it. 1:59 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there. 1:59 PM  Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 411:59 PM  Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf2:00 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue. 2:01 PM  Adam Colligan: Sigh.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide2:05 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it. 2:06 PM  Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.2:10 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?2:11 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.2:28 PM  Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?2:30 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
5. I pay money to have the CMOS battery checked
Clearly, I wasn't inspired by that chat. Maybe the rep was just wrong about the hardware. More likely, it was just my own ignorance that kept me from finding the CMOS battery, and so I would benefit from a real technician checking it, maybe replacing it or telling me I really did need to send it to HP for service, and also looking at the main battery circuit.
A couple of hours and $54.13 in diagnostic fees later, I had my answer from the technicians. My main battery had a short in it and needed to be replaced. There is no dedicated CMOS / RTC battery on this motherboard. The clock and BIOS use main battery power, and it makes perfect sense that the main battery fault would therefore include symptoms normally associated with a simultaneous failure of a main battery and a dedicated CMOS battery in another computer. This PC is not unique in lacking a dedicated CMOS battery. I could buy a new main battery for around $55.
Obviously, I was now thoroughly upset at HP Support. With this clearly being a main battery issue and the main battery being easy for me to replace and covered by warranty, HP could just send me a new main battery. I wouldn't even care if they wanted to tell me that swapping it myself would void the rest of the warranty period -- better than going without my PC for weeks on end. Failing that, I would probably rather even pay the money for a new battery from a retailer rather than go through the stupidity of sending this PC in just to have the battery swapped out. But now I had already paid the equivalent of that new battery cost just to get the correct information about my hardware, solely because official HP Support had given me false information -- twice!
6. Second chat ("Justine")
Gist:
So I re-connected with technical support in the hope that something could be done to make the situation right. I briefly summarized the problem and gave the case number in the webform submission not shown. Make sure you're sitting down for this transcript and have either whisky or popcorn depending on whether you work for HP or not.
Note in particular at 5:28, where my soul tries to escape my body, and 6:00, where Justine accidentally states the whole issue without actually understanding.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
5:10 PM  Support session established with Justine.
5:10 PM  Adam Colligan: Hi Justine
5:11 PM  Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.
5:11 PM  Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?
5:11 PM  Adam Colligan: [redacted]
5:12 PM  Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.
5:13 PM  Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA
5:15 PM  Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?
5:15 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes.
5:16 PM  Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.
5:19 PM  Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.
5:20 PM  Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery.
5:20 PM  Justine: -
5:22 PM  Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?
5:22 PM  Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.
5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it
5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*
5:27 PM  Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.
5:28 PM  Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?
5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh my god.
5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.
5:29 PM  Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.
5:31 PM  Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?
5:32 PM  Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.
5:33 PM  Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.
5:34 PM  Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?
5:35 PM  Justine: Yes Adam.
5:36 PM  Justine: It will be for free.
5:36 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?
5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?
5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center
5:38 PM  Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.
5:39 PM  Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.
5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+.
5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:
5:41 PM  Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.
5:41 PM  Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.
5:44 PM  Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.
5:44 PM  Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.
5:46 PM  Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.
5:46 PM  Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from
5:47 PM  Connecting...
5:47 PM  Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.
5:47 PM  Support session established with Justine.
5:47 PM  Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.
5:49 PM  Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.
5:50 PM  Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory
5:51 PM  Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.
5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.
5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?
5:52 PM  Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.
5:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?
5:53 PM  Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.
5:54 PM  Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue.
5:54 PM  Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.
5:55 PM  Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?
5:56 PM  Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically.
5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer
5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.
5:57 PM  Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.
5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize about that.
5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste?
5:59 PM  Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.
5:59 PM  Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.
6:00 PM  Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.
6:00 PM  Justine: Is that okay?
6:00 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?
6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery?
6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]
6:02 PM  Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.
6:02 PM  Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?
6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.
6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
5:10 PM  Support session established with Justine.5:10 PM  Adam Colligan: Hi Justine5:11 PM  Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.5:11 PM  Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?5:11 PM  Adam Colligan: [redacted]5:12 PM  Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.5:13 PM  Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA5:15 PM  Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?5:15 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes.5:16 PM  Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.5:19 PM  Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.5:20 PM  Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery. 5:20 PM  Justine: -5:22 PM  Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?5:22 PM  Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*5:27 PM  Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.5:28 PM  Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh my god.5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.5:29 PM  Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.5:31 PM  Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?5:32 PM  Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.5:33 PM  Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.5:34 PM  Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?5:35 PM  Justine: Yes Adam. 5:36 PM  Justine: It will be for free.5:36 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center5:38 PM  Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.5:39 PM  Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+. 5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:5:41 PM  Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.5:41 PM  Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.5:44 PM  Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.5:44 PM  Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.5:46 PM  Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.5:46 PM  Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from5:47 PM  Connecting...5:47 PM  Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.5:47 PM  Support session established with Justine.5:47 PM  Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.5:49 PM  Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.5:50 PM  Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory5:51 PM  Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?5:52 PM  Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.5:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?5:53 PM  Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.5:54 PM  Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue. 5:54 PM  Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.5:55 PM  Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?5:56 PM  Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically. 5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.5:57 PM  Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize about that.5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste? 5:59 PM  Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.5:59 PM  Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.6:00 PM  Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.6:00 PM  Justine: Is that okay?6:00 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery? 6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]6:02 PM  Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.6:02 PM  Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
7. In desperation, I try in vain to attract @HPSupport's attention on Twitter
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
@adamcolligan
6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
@adamcolligan6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
No response; not sure if I expected one or not.

Update time! I know you've been dying to know how this has been turning out.
I provided all the requested information in response to the private message from HP staff. Nothing ever came of it; as far as I can tell, no real human being ever attempted to contact me after being "forwarded" the details of the case.
Three days after I tweeted at them, @HPSupport sent me a series of public replies. In essence, they told me to abandon useless post-sales technical support and get information from HP Sales.
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
Adam Colligan ‏@AdamColligan Apr 13
@HPSupport No but seriously. Does the HP Envy x360 have a dedicated RTC / CMOS battery or not?
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Hello Adam, Eddie here. Saw your tweet. Our Product Information team will be able to assist with your inquiry. Dial:.. ^HPCare
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan 1800-752-0900. Follow prompts for “product information”. If you prefer email click this link http://ow.ly/HYnHT .. ^HPCare
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Once there be sure to choose "Contact an HP sales specialist" as your subject. Let me know if you require further... ^HPCare
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan information and/or assistance. Have an awesome day! Thanks! ^HPCare
Now, being the exhaustive give-it-a-try kind of guy that I am, I tried *both* the phone and the email path to support. I may have been told once on the phone to try the email, but it's hard to even remember at the moment. I'll just paste the email outcome here.
Me (into the webform):
HP reps have directed me to contact sales support after others in the company were unable to help with a technical product question. I need to know whether the HP Envy x360 model G6T85UA (should be board 780958-501 and main battery 760944-421) has a dedicated CMOS/RTC battery. If it does, I need to know *where* it is connected to the board. This is a fairly urgent issue for me implicating a disconnect or swap-out of the main battery while AC power is not being supplied.
HP:
Dear Adam,
Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center.
I understand the you are still seeking resolution for your technical concern and I’m sorry to hear that this remains unresolved.
I'm very sorry, but our email sales team does not handle technical or product support concerns. We can only handles sales inquiries pertaining to orders placed in our store.
HP Technical Support will be able to provide you with service and support for hardware, software, and parts replacement of HP products that are still covered under warranty.
I strongly suggest that you contact the HP Technical Support Team since your matter requires technical expertise. HP Technical Support can best assist you and can be reached 24 hours a day at: http://www.hp.com/contacthp
Below is step by step guide how to obtain the webform/online form:
1. Please copy and paste this link http://www.hp.com/contacthp into a new browser.
2. Please enter your model number in the "Enter my model number" search field provided then hit the "Find my product" button to generate the result.
3. Select the correct product from the search results.
4. On the next page wait for a few seconds to load the webform.
5. Scroll down to find the webform.
5. Complete the webform then hit the "Submit" button.
6. After you fill out the online form, you will receive a Technical Support case number. You will also be able to engage with a Tech Support product specialist either by chat or they will give you a call at your earliest convenience.
By the way, I have seen a link which might help you with this concern. Here's the link:
http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=G6T85UA
The link shows the the HP ENVY 15-U011DX X360 CONVERTIBLE PC (ENERGY STAR) has the 780958-501 motherboard but has a different battery. It doesn't show also the RTC Battery and where you can find it. Please contact our HP Technical Support for other information.
I hope this information has been of assistance to you, Adam. Please reply to this message if there is anything further we can do. For your convenience, you may also call the HP.com Sales Center directly at 1-888-222-0029 between 7:00 AM - 2:00 AM EST, seven days a week.
Customer Satisfaction is our store’s top priority. Please tell us about your email experience today. To participate, please click on our Customer Satisfaction Survey link below.
Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business.
Regards,
Regine G.
Oh dear. So technical support doesn't have technical information about HP machines, and sales support doesn't answer technical questions about HP machines and refers you to technical support. Brilliant. But by this time, I of course knew better than to actually *believe* what someone was telling me, so I used the sales phone number instead.
The sales guy was super eager to help, especially since I framed this as a problem of future use. I work on disaster vulnerability issues. If I buy Envy x360 15ts and use them in a place where there isn't AC power for a while, can I swap spare batteries into them without screwing up the BIOS and real-time clock settings?
He put me on hold two or three times for what I was led to believe were very thorough attempts to get me a totally definitive answer. And this is what someone eventually told him to tell me. All HP machines ship with CMOS batteries.
So I must have been mistaken all along, right? The CMOS battery must have stopped working at the same time as the main battery. It must just be that neither I nor my local repair shop could find my CMOS battery because we all have the wrong prescriptions on our glasses and contact lenses. Well, there's just one small issue with getting to that conclusion: what HP told me about my machine was, once again, totally false.
How do I know? Because I still didn't believe HP, and rather than shipping my compter off for weeks in the big padded box, I ordered a new main battery for a total of just over $60. I swapped it. Guess what happened, HP? If you guessed, "every aspect of the problem instantly resolved, because there never was a CMOS/RTC battery in this machine in the first place", you would win a gold star. But I'm assuming you'd also lose your job, because this particular piece of information has somehow been banished and outlawed from the minds of HP employees and contractors.
I wonder: would anybody at HP be interested in apologizing to me, much less in finding a way to make up for the $115+ I've lost because nobody at any stage to this point has been willing to act like a human being?
BUT WAIT, THERE'S GREAT NEWS
I shouldn't make it seem through this thread that HP totally lacks competence and doesn't care about me at all. Because within two hours of receiving the email from HP Sales telling me that they weren't going to do anything about my problem, I started receiving advertising email blasts full of great offers and promotions about buying a new HP laptop and other great products! Yay! I guess I'm not invisible after all. And I'm sure if I bought *more* stuff from HP, they would take care of me then. Right?

Replace CMOS battery

I have a Satellite M35X-S349 laptop and it appears the CMOS battery is dead. When activating the power switch, the hard drive attempts to load but then stops. The BIOS will not load, which makes me think that the CMOS battery is dead. I need a service manual or someone to tell me how to get to the CMOS battery. Any info will be appreciated.
Thanks
Ross

Hi,
Please use the following manual (page #2-63):
http://bizsupport2.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c01122313/c01122313.pdf
Regards.
BH
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Make it easier for other people to find solutions by marking a Reply 'Accept as Solution' if it solves your problem.

Can bad PRAM (CMOS) battery be "guilty" for MBP not recovering from sleep?

I have MBP 4.1 (last with removable battery) and it wont recover from sleep... i tried reseting SMC but no effect (three months ago SMC reset worked well for me). I tried removing/inserting RAM, HDD, CMOS Battery but nothing can make my MBP recover from sleep . Does anyone have expirience similar to mine? Solutions? Suggestions?

I would not expect a dead PRAM battery to casue that. If it did, zapping the PRAM would restore function until the computer was again deprived of all power--wall and main battery.
Can the computer run at all? If you can get it to wake up, that is a different set of issues than one that will not wake up at all.
If it won't wake up at all: Remember that the MacBook Pro 4,1 had the dreaded "Nvidea curse." The Geforce 8600M GT video chipset was prone to failure due to improper manufacturing by Nvidea. Apple had a repair program to fix this at no cost to you but it expired in Dec 2012. Mine waited until June 2013 to die. It's still dead.
The only cure for the "Curse" is a new logic board. An Apple service provider may still have the hardware tester that positively identifies if the video chipset has failed.
If you can get the computer running: there was a sleep issue with mine (3,1 but same logic board architecture) but it went away when I upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6. Still, worth checking if you get the comptuer running. Open Network preferences and select Wi-Fi. When that screen comes up, click the Advanced button--it should come up with the WiFi tab active; if not, make is so.
Now delete any wireless networks you don't use on at least a weekly basis. My old MBP refused to wake from sleep and required a restart. A check of the system log showed the computer was trying to a connect to the wifi network at a lodge I'd stayed in a month before and 50 miles away. Deleting that "remembered network" cured the problem

Lenovo G550 CMOS Battery replacement

Hi, I have a Lenovo G550 which sometimes fails to start. If left for a few days it eventually starts up. When it does finally start there is a "check date and time" error on the boot menu. When I go into the bios settings I find that the date and time has returned to default. So I set the correct date and time, reboot and all is well until the next time.
After reading this forum I believe it is a CMOS Battery error.
Is it possible for me to replace this battery? If so where is it located on the mother board?
Thanks in Advance

can you remove the bottom panel of the laptop?
Regards,
Jin Li
May this year, be the year of 'DO'!
I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft

Replacement CMOS battery for Equium L40

My CMOS battery is dead, can anyone advise where I can buy a replacement from one.
Thanks
Adrian

Hi
Im afraid the RTC battery is soldered to the motherboard. Dont think you could remove it easily.
What you can do is to charge the battery.
In order to charge the RTC battery successfully, the main battery and AC adaptor have to be connected to the notebook. Additionally the notebook has to be powered ON for about 18-20 hours.
By the way: its a NiMH RTC battery supports 3V output voltage and 14mAh capacity

HDX18 CMOS Battery replacement

Hi. Lately my HP HDX18-1008TX has an error message of "CMOS checksum error" whenever I boot up the laptop. I assumed the CMOS battery is dead. How do I change the CMOS battery and where to buy the battery replacement?
Thank you for your advice.

Hi,
You can buy from HP (part #449729-001) for US$44.8 as shown in the following link:
http://h20141.www2.hp.com/Hpparts/Search_Results.aspx?mscssid=2FE7EF80A8C64E0199E13B411E60D911&Searc...
or you can buy a CR2032 battery from every where for aroound US$3.00 (3 bucks). It's your choice.
You also need the following manual which show you where and how to put a new battery to your machine.
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c01705400.pdf
Regards.
BH
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Make it easier for other people to find solutions by marking a Reply 'Accept as Solution' if it solves your problem.

Cmos battery problem

Hello, I have broken cmos battery cable input in my notebook. And it causes some problems while starting notebook. It shows in the screen CMOS ERROR (502). Is it possible to repair cmos battery input or I have to change motherboard?
This question was solved.
View Solution.

Generally if you have broken the cable header you have to replace the motherboard. Maybe you can find someone very skillful at soldering who can fix it.

HP H61 dead after battery removed

Hi, my notebook HP G61 has completely dead.
I removed CMOS battery to reset BIOS, at start it asked me to load default settings: during recovery, laptop battery was removed and wasn't connected to AC adapter so it turned off.
Now my notebook is completely dead, here my test:
- removed battery, plugged in charger - a white led near plug-cord turn on for 5-10 secs, then turn off
- no sign of life
- tried to remove CPU,
- tried to remove CMOS battery
Can anyone help me?
Regards

jlkhkjgjhf wrote:
Hi, my notebook HP G61 has completely dead.
I removed CMOS battery to reset BIOS, at start it asked me to load default settings: during recovery, laptop battery was removed and wasn't connected to AC adapter so it turned off.
Now my notebook is completely dead, here my test:
- removed battery, plugged in charger - a white led near plug-cord turn on for 5-10 secs, then turn off
- no sign of life
- tried to remove CPU,
- tried to remove CMOS battery
Can anyone help me?
Regards
Hello jlkhkjgjhf.
What is the product number for your notebook? This document can show you where it is located.
Does your CAPS LOCK key flash when you attempt to boot the notebook and if it does, what is the pattern?
Have a great day.
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Click the "Accept as Solution" button if I resolve your issue.

Possibly dead CMOS battery

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