Precious Little Discussion of Tiger Classic Crazyness on Tiger Forum

Similar Messages

• OS-9 applications crash Tiger Classic, worked fine in Panther Classic

  Greetings,
  I recently installed OS-X Tiger and upgraded to 10.4.10 incl. all security and Java updates. Some older OS-9 applications (e.g., Chessmaster 4000 and some of my own software I created years ago), which ran flawlesslyl in the Panther Classic environment, now crash Tiger Classic. In fact, even 10.4.10 gets screwed. E.g., empty ghost windows appear that cannot be removed or the upper Tiger menu bar is empty. Only a computer restart sometimes solves the problem, not the forced quit of Classic or an OS-X Finder relaunch.
  When I rebooted from OS-X Panther again, I got told that there was a problem with the "new Classic". So I set preferences for a different, not updated (by OS-X Tiger) 0S-9 System folder - and my old applications ran flawlessly again.
  Right now I have to switch between Tiger and Panther. Is there a workaround to have Tiger Classic run older OS-9 applications? Obviously, there is a problem with the "new" Classic.
  Some OS-9 applications like Photoshop 5.5 run well in Tiger Classic. Therefore, I can rule out a general problem with my Classic environment. OS-X updates do not exist for some scientific software I use.
  Thanks in advance for your advice,
  Dietmar
  PS: Apple states that there is no firmware update required for a G4 Quicksilver Mac.

  dietmart wrote:
  Update: I realized that Tiger's new Classic environment cannot handle OS-9 applications that require 256 or fewer display colors for operation. In fact, the new Classic environment will not even start up successfully, if 256 colors are set.
  That is not correct. I run Classic under Tiger with 256 colours fairly often. I have one very, very, very old game (Harpoon Classic) which won't run unless the system is set to 256 colours. Every now and again I still play it. Classic works with 256 colours, and it also starts up with 256 colours.
  Classic does this with my iMac, and with my eMac, under Tiger, and with my beige G3 under Jaguar. (Or at least it did the last time I ran Classic on the beige.) The eMac shipped with Panther; Classic ran with 256 colours there, too.
  I suspect that you have a different problem.
  Which applications are you using?
  Dietmar

• Crazy tiger, classic and 2906 scsi problem

  Sorry, long post to follow.
  A list seems the best way to describe this problem
  1) I found an old scsi drive that had os 9.22 on it and wanted to run it in classic on os 10.4.11
  2) I installed the old adaptec 2906 card in a G4 Digital Audio connected the drive and booted into tiger.
  3) The harddrive was visible in the finder and under the "classic" preferences.
  4) I started classic off of the scsi drive and everything was fine. I opened a couple of programs and all was good.
  5) I rebooted for some reason (without stopping classic).
  6) Tiger would not reboot. Nothing I tried would boot the computer. I would get the grey bootup screen with the apple but the spinning wheel would not show up. I waited up to 30 minutes at one point for something to happen.
  7) I removed the drive (unplugged it from power and the bus) and still no boot.
  8) I removed the scsi card and still no boot.
  9) restarted from CD and repaired the drive.
  10) Yeah, Tiger boots up.
  11) I think all is fixed and reconnect everything.
  12) No boot again!!!
  What could have happened after that first bootup? The drive seems to fire up as it did the first time (it is loud and hard to miss).
  Could the scsi card be dead after the one reboot?
  If I added an extension to the os 9 drive would that have an effect on Tiger booting (I find this unlikely but thought i would ask)?
  One other thing and this may be Important. I also have an IDE controller card Acard AEC-62800M installed which seems to show up as a scsi card.
  Any Ideas would be great.

  I also have an IDE controller card Acard AEC-62800M installed which seems to show up as a scsi card.
  I've seen that with several PCI/IDE cards and would consider it normal.
  Have you tried PRAM/NVRAM/PMU resets...
  Does it boot into Open Firmware with CMDOption+of ?
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42642
  Have you done a PRAM reset...
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238
  Tried resetting the PMU?
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449

• Tiger/Classic and USB problems

  I have two instances where a USB device that worked in Panther/Classic will not work in Tiger/Classic.
  One is StylusRIP from Epson that I use to print Postscript files with my Stylus 3000. Worked fine in Panther/Classic, since I upgraded to Tiger the printer is not recognized. The printer works in OSX using the non-Postscript driver, so I know that basic connectivty (cables, ports, etc.) is OK.
  The other is a RoboLab USB infrared transmitter. Same scenario.
  While troubleshooting the transmitter, I tried booting into OS9 (on my G4) and the connection was made. It worked fine. I tried the same thing with StylusRip, and it too worked fine, the printer was recognized. I can, as a workaround, output PS files or press-ready PDFs (since I won't be able to use any of my designs apps in Classic), reboot in 9 and print, but I'd rather find out how to fix the problem.
  Can anyone tell me what could be different about the way Tiger handles USB that could affect the interoperability with devices/software that require Classic? I did find one post that recommended resetting the PRAM, so I will try that. Any other recommendations are welcome.

  Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am running 9.2.2. The only thing that changed was the update to Tiger. I have called ESPON, and they refer me to Adobe because they licensed the RIP from Adobe. I've not had any success with that yet. The last update of RIP does not support the Stylus 3000 printer, and I don't think it's native anyway. The set-up I was using was a "non-supported workaround", so I may just be out of luck. Which is a pain, because the printer still has some miles on it. I may try to see if I can use an older Mac running 9.2.2 as a print server.
  Robolab has an OSX native update out, so we will get that.
  What I found curious was that both pieces of software, or the USB connectivity required by both, was broken by Tiger.

• Copy Tiger Classic Support into Leopard Possible?

  I tried asking this in Leopard's pre-release forum and the responses were, shall we say "less than helpful."
  Before you answer (noting that this is the "Classic Environment" discussion group), I am well aware OS 9 is dead (duh), I have an expensive CAD program that I would have to take out a small business loan to upgrade to the current, OS X compatible, version. Classic is the answer I can afford right now. The business loan will come in the future when I upgrade to a Macintel (my PowerBook can handle everything I throw it, thank you very much, and doesn't need replacing).
  Please don't tell how dead OS 9 is and how I should move on (I have, with the only this exception). It is insulting to me and a waste of time for you. Please don't tell me about rebooting into a Tiger partition, I already know about this and it is inconvenient for my work flow. This is also not a discussion on the relative merits of Leopard over Tiger or Apple's decision making process.
  On to my question: Is it possible to copy the TruBlueEnvironme (I'm not talking about the OS 9 system folder, that's just drag and drop), blued(?) and it's associated PreferencePanes, Menu Extras, etc. from Tiger into Leopard and have Classic work? Or did Apple do something else behind the scenes at the kernel/UNIX level that makes this impossible?
  Thanks in advance (and for staying on topic).

  Unfortunately no. Low cost CAD software is so crude as to be unusable.
  "Engineering" software lives in it's own special "reality." If you haven't worked with software in this area you'd probably be surprised to learn engineering software costs between 4x to 10x the amount of software in any other area costs with equivalent level of technology or sophistication. The excuse is always that the end users has more to gain financially when they use engineering software over other types of software. Which, of course, doesn't hold up when you consider that advertising firms can make tens of millions of dollars making an ad campaign using Photoshop. Using low cost CAD software is kinda like using textedit to do a sophisticated, high end layout that would normally only be done in InDesign.
  The CAD software in question is extremely well done and very Mac friendly (and I still recommend it others). It started off a Mac app from a small, family run business. It was so good, it became the standard for "low cost" architectural software (on any platform). At the time Apple (and this CAD company) switched to OS X, they got bought by a German company that sold very expensive architectural software. When they took over, the price went from $495 to $795 (depending on the packages you bought) with $50 to $100 upgrades, to $1200 to $2000, per seat (unlike "standard" apps, you can't use one license on both your desktop and your laptop) with $445 upgrades (and then, only from the immediately proceeding version). In our two man, family run business, that would cost us $2900 to get "two seats" with the same functionality as we have now.
  P.S. To get a feel for the weird little world engineers live in: I went to a sales seminar for a new Windows engineering software package that did 3D modeling back in 1995. The one feature that totally blew away the engineers (and the sales team for that matter) wasn't the photo-realism of the renderings, the ease with which the models could be produced, or the rendering speed; it was the fact that you could copy and pasted data and images between programs in the suite. 11 years behind the times and they charged an arm a leg for it.

• Old Applications & files won't open in OSX-Tiger/Classic

  [post moved from other forum]
  I finished my Powerbook's hardware upgrade with success yesterday(with thanks to JPL, Sig, A_Brody and other's great advice). System is now Powerbook G3 400 Firewire with 512mbRam, new 40GB HDD, and OS-X Tiger. However...
  I can't seem to get the older Applications or their files to open. I get the error message:
  "There is no default application specified to open the document Appleworks 6"
  and/or
  "Could not be opened because the application that created it could not be found--- could not find a translation extension with appropriate translators"
  The upgrade/update procedure included...
  ===Back-up all files on the old 10GB HDD to an external USB drive.
  ===Remove old and replace w/new 40GB HDD, also install new 512MB PC-133 RAM module in lower slot.
  ===booted from old OS CD and ran Hard drive set-up utility with two partitions, one 30GB the other 10GB.
  ===Install OS 9.0.4 from that original Apple software CD onto the first 30GB partition.
  ===Onto same partition, ran OS-9 Update 9.1.0, then 9.2.1, then fireware update 4.1.8f5, then Update 9.2.1
  ===Installed OS-X Tiger onto the first 30GB partition
  ===Moved all backed-up files from the external USB drive onto the second 10GB partition.
  I have tried running the old applications in both OS-X Classic mode and also after changing the "Start-up Disk" to the smaller partition (which should be a clone of how the original Hard drive was set-up i.e. folder structure etc.)
  I'm quite surprised that when re-booting to the smaller partiton, that although it looks just like my system prior to upgrading, the apps don't run and the files don't open those older apps that created them. I assumed that the smaller Partition--and booting to it--would be the same as if the original Hard drive was still in the powerbook.
  When I get those error messages above, I have followed the "Choose Application" button thru to where I could choose the application. I follow to the "Applications (Mac OS 9" folder to where the actual APPLEWORKS 6 app (for exmaple) is located, but it is greyed out and can't be selected. BTW later I did copy all of the contents of the original "Applications" folder from the backed-up HDD into the OSX "Applications Mac OS 9" folder. Also note, the apps in that folder are listed as KIND "Unix Executable File". The files (in this case AppleWorks files) are also listed as that file KIND.
  ===In the OSX's System Preferences/System/Classic/Advanced tab, I have tried the REBUILD DESKTOP procedure--with no effected change. I know I read elsewhere in discussions that there was a procedure to re-boot with a certain keyboard held-key combo that allows to re-build desktop upon booting?? I don't remember the keyboard combo. And,not certain how that procedure is different.
  ===In the change Start-Up disc Utility, I now see four Systems to choose from...
  Mac OSX 10.4 on New 30GB HD
  Mac OS 9.2.2 on New 30GB HD
  Mac OS on Old 10GB HD (that's the smaller partition),
  Mac OS 9.2.2 on New 30GB HD
  Network Start-up
  Both the second and forth choice will boot-up to OS 9.2, but as mentioned the apps won't run and files won't open
  I'm guessing the reason the third choice won't boot (it reverts back to OSX Tiger when I try) is because that original System copy is OS 9.0.4 (backed-up prior to running the OS-9.1 and 9.2.1, 9.2.2 updates.). Also note, when in OS 9.2.2 when I go into that Utility... Apple/Control Panels/Startup Disk it doesn't list the old OS on the smaller partition. BTW could I now run/perform the OS-9 updates to bring that System on the smaller HD partition up to OS-9.2.2 with out causing problems (and maybe providing solutions?)
  I wonder...
  ??? Why would I be having to choose which application would open an application---wouldn't an app open on its own (Unix Executable File")
  ??? When I moved the orig HD back-ups on the external USB drive I noticed a file with some kind of PC icon was being created within the folder. Currently I see that the file is now displayed as FINDER.DAT. Does this file relate to the error that refers to "appropriate translators"? Could the Apple Macintosh files being backed-up onto an external USB drive that may not have been formated as Apple HFS type be causing a problem?
  ??? Why wouldn't the smaller 10GB partition with the old HDD back-up copy moved to it not function like the original Hard drive? Particularly when I choose to boot to its SYSTEM w/Start-up Disc? BTW when I choose that route, the powerbook just boots to OSX Tiger.
  THANKS for any replies, you all have been a great help with the challenges of upgrading...
  MSG-PWRBkG3
  PS:
  Sorry for the long post. But, I have included as much up-front details as possible to assist in your replies. I also want to help others reading this thread later on as to what (correct or incorrect) procedures were followed... to help them see how these in-compatibility scenerios would be similiar to their situations... leading to solutions for all.

  Thank you for including as much detail as you did. It makes it much easier to troubleshoot this type of issue. What I'll do is basically follow along with the procedure you used and point out where you (unknowingly) ran into problems.
  "Back-up all files on the old 10GB HDD to an external USB drive."
  Okay, I'm betting that this external USB drive was formatted as PC-Exchange/Windows format. Since this type of disk format doesn't have native support for the special "Mac" information about files (such as resource forks and HFS metadata like file type and creator codes), when Mac OS writes files to these disks, it needs to use a special method. When you copy the files from OS 9, OS 9 adds special "FINDER.DAT" files and also stores the resource-fork-parts of the original files inside a "RESOURCE.FRK" folder on the disk. My FAQ goes into more detail about this. When, from OS 9, you look at the files you just copied to the PC-formatted disk, and they appear identical to the files on your original 10 GB hard drive, that is in fact a complete illusion. The files as they exist on the PC-formatted disk are very different from what they appear. When you hook it up to your OS 9 Mac, the files appear fine, and you can copy them and have them work just like the original files did. If, on the other hand, you hook this PC-formatted hard drive up to your OS X Mac, it looks at the files in a completely different way. If you copy the files off of this disk from OS X, most of the files won't be usable.
  "Remove old and replace w/new 40GB HDD, also install new 512MB PC-133 RAM module in lower slot."
  "booted from old OS CD and ran Hard drive set-up utility with two partitions, one 30GB the other 10GB."
  "Install OS 9.0.4 from that original Apple software CD onto the first 30GB partition."
  "Onto same partition, ran OS-9 Update 9.1.0, then 9.2.1, then fireware update 4.1.8f5, then Update 9.2.1"
  "Installed OS-X Tiger onto the first 30GB partition"
  "Moved all backed-up files from the external USB drive onto the second 10GB partition."
  If you did this from OS X, you will run into problems, whereas if you do this from OS 9, you'll be okay. The reason for this, as I mentioned above, is that OS X doesn't know how to "see" the files in the same way that OS 9 does.
  This is what I would do. Make sure you still have the PC-formatted drive with the files you backed up from OS 9. Reboot into one of your versions of OS 9 that works properly. Hook up the external USB drive, and the files on it should appear properly and function properly. Now copy the files over onto your local hard drive and they should work properly as well. The files that you copied over from OS X won't be useful and can be deleted. Then reboot into OS X and you should be all set.
  Hope this helps....
  Dual 2.7 GHz PowerPC G5 w/ 2.5 GB RAM   Mac OS X (10.4.5)  

• Classic Install in Tiger

  I just had to re-install Tiger - first time that it wasn't done as an update. It surprised me that it didn't include a copy of OS 9.2.2. Where can I get a copy of 9.2.2 to load into Tiger and how do I get it to operate as Classic and only open when I need it to handle a legacy application?
  Thanks,
  Dave

  Welcome to Apple Discussions!
  Mac OS 9 and Classic are not the same thing. Unfortunately if something is said to work in Mac OS 9 only as hardware, it may not always work in Mac OS X. Mac OS X has what is called a Classic environment that allows most applications to work that work in 9, but unfortunately does not have full Mac OS 9 hardware support. For hardware that doesn't work in the Classic environment, you need an older Mac that is able to boot into Mac OS 9. Mac OS X only booting started being the standard back in January 2003, and by July 2004, no more new Macs were available that could boot into Mac OS 9, though many used and refurbished Macs are still available that can.
  Now it is possible that this camera may be using an antiquated codec on its AVIs which only works on Mac OS 9's Quicktime. I say antiquated, since the company that makes them no longer exists, though Apple does have them available for download on its website. That'll work in Classic if you install the Quicktime for Mac OS 9 Indeo Codecs, For more about that, see these articles:
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60366
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30904
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30903
  Many cameras which don't work in iPhoto may work in Image Capture.
  And if the camera has a solid state media, there are card readers designed for Mac OS X that will read most all solid state media. So if you know the type of media that the camera uses, find yourself a card reader, and you won't need to use Classic at all or boot into Mac OS 9 to at least get its data onto your computer. So tell me which model Casio you have, as there is more than one model that is 5 Megapixel that has the Exilim label? I can look up some info on the internet if you like and see if there are any easier ways to use this camera, or if it doesn't have any of the above limitations.

• Classic Support in Tiger and Leopard

  Hi,
  I have a PowerMac G5 (PowerMac 7,2 XB35028YNVB) and would like to know if it's possible to install OS9 Classic support for this system.
  I currently have Tiger 10.4.10 that was installed from a retail cd. It did not come with the system and did not come with classic installed. (Ebay special :-S )
  I want to know if I can get the original cds sent to me, or if a retail OS9 cd will suffice.
  Also, if the retail cd will do the trick with Tiger, will it also work for Leopard (I'll be upgrading soon)
  Many thanks
  -James

  I am not sure if this helps you or not
  http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1174990&tstart=0

• Some help please navigating these forums and a little discussion as well?

  There are a few questions I’d like to post, but first I need to determine how to use this newer style of user-to-user forum. Yeah, it’s been around a few years or so, but I’ve seen it take over the more traditional message board systems like v-bulletin and phpBB. Those boards were easy to navigate, as the forums, categories and topics were presented in a typical directory tree structure (even though the built-in search functions leaved a lot to be desired).
  Now the trend has shifted to formats such as this. While some retain some semblance of categories and topics (discussions), others seem to abandon this altogether in favor posts or discussions being related via tags or keywords. Google is the worst offender – forcing the user to select up to 4 pre-defined descriptors when creating a new post.
  Also confusing is how the terminology has changed. The forums are now calling topics, discussions. But they end up containing even less actual discussion on the topic and have de-volved into simple questions and answered. This is reinforced by the use of buttons to compel the original poster to designate responses as helpful or correct answers. This I would guess is in response to the myriad of answer seekers posting questions, receiving several helpful replies and never going back to say thanks, thus, the threads become all but useless for others who experience and seek out solutions to similar issues.
  The new format also usually starts out with “ask your question here” which is just another way to say, “hey, how about at least giving the search a try before asking a question that’s been covered before”.  Because many self-contained search features just don’t work, I can see why users just skip over it. But, what they may not know is that you can use Google to search a specific site. Forum, or blog which usually works pretty well. I’ve done this on a number of occasions, only to find the response as “this question has been answered here a hundred times – try searching”. If the responder is feeling generous that day, he or she may also present a link – a google search link that includes keywords.
  So, here I do see the initial ask your question box, then underneath that, a bunch of icons that represent particular products/topics. I start searches using more keywords, the reduce them If there are too many results. This gradual decline works well for Google, but here at Apple Support, I went from over 700 results to just two by eliminating all but the two mandatory keywords. I will do some more searches and post in the appropriate section, but my gut reaction is that it would be hard to believe that I’m the only person who has ever had this question.
  So, then – what’s the best and right way to use this new forum?
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  A BRIEF HISTORY OF ONLINE MESSAGE BOARDS
  I’m turning the double-nickel this year, so I’ve earned the right to gripe a bit. I don’t know everything, but for those of you youngsters, do yourself a favor a read up. If you truly are a techno-phile, you’ll find it at least somewhat interesting, at least enough to do a little research. Plus, this information isn’t all that old.
  The first online community I was exposed to was the BBS – Bulletin Board System. I had just bought my first PC, a Tandy, and the sales guy sold me a modem and gave me a number to call to connect to his BBS. I installed the modem, dialed the number and for the first time heard the annoyingly beautiful sounds of modems connecting. The, almost like “Do you want to play a game?”, text appeared on my monitor and I was hooked. The BBSes were local – to avoid long distance calls – and operated by those who could afford a second, dedicated computer and phone line. Usually, only one person could connect at a time – browse the discussion topics, leave a post to add to the discussion, check private messages (email) then log off.
  News Groups were the next form on online interaction I was introduced to. These required a special server running a dedicated protocol and a new reader, usually integrated in with an email client like Outlook Express. Each group was a specific topic – for example, Microsoft groups may have had a couple dozen or so groups covering topics like Windows 95 or networking, other commercially sponsored groups, or self-created groups. Like a BBS, you would log on, catch up on unread messages, respond to some and move on. It was in the News Groups where I learned how to program web pages to connect to a hosted database and many other things, thanks to the expertise and kindness of strangers. These groups soon became the territory of spammers, not to mention the real ugly recesses of the internet – international folks sharing “content” that the work obscene can’t even begin to describe. ISP’s soon dropped news groups from their services and they went away.
  By this time however, the world-wide-web was now in full swing. We no longer needed AOL or Prodigy to get on the Net, just an ISP and browser. Broadband was becoming available in select markets. Web-based bulletin boards sprang up all over, filling the void that the news groups left behind. They evolved, but kept to the simple structure and format for a good long while. As the cost of web hosting came down, and the availability of online databases went up, and open source application became better and more robust, anyone could incorporate a forum into their site with little time or expense.
  Social Media was on the rise. Sites came and went. From Friendster, to Myspace, then finally facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. The net also settled in to a short list of other content sharing sites – YouTube, Flickr, Instagram. These took over the social discussion aspects of the online forum sites. That left the forums to take the only remaining role of software and product support – both as an extension of a company’s support solution or user-to-user help and support.
  On more than one occasion, I’ve tried to engage other users in topical and conceptual discussion in these groups, but it seems that they’ve already used their energy for that keeping up with their social media obligations. Facebook groups get lost in the multitude of pages. So end user support groups have settled into Q & A, mark the answer as correct them move on. Then another person comes along with the same question, enters it into the box, sees the first ten “pertinent” results that don’t answer the question, posts the question, and the cycle continues.
  If anyone has read this far, I commend you! Reading is fast becoming a lost art. I know it’s hard to read off a computer screen, easier on a tablet. And while I live my gizmos and gadgets, I have to still at least once in a while pick up a real book. I’m perfectly satisfied with my iTunes system with the only issue being the quality of any downloaded music. It’s better than it used to be, but CD’s have superior sound. Blu-ray Disc has superior sound and picture.
  I did purchase several books from the iTunes Book Store. But why? I could have bought them anywhere and read them in iBooks, but not the other way around. I had to sell my iOS devices. And now I can’t read my books. But that’s another story, for another day.

  Slip Jigs
  Contributors here so far are the cream of the crop...
  As an overall reaction to your treatise, I agree. I also judge that you - like me - may have some experience and skill at UX design (User eXperience - usability design, for the unwashed masses).
  First, let me commend your use of the WHITE SPACE that Apple graphic designers have so kindly provided. Looks very much like a paper page full of easy-to-read-SERIF-FONT text - it is clear you have experience with design concepts.
  As a tribute, I will post in your style - although our compose pane here is not quite WYSIWYG, I am hoping that line spacing will sort itself out, if not I will remove my attempt at bucking the system - but it may time for you to get some new optics
  you said:
  " ... v-bulletin and phpBB. Those boards were easy to navigate, as the forums, categories and topics were presented in a typical directory tree structure... "
  Agree that vBulletin, etc. WERE easy and familiar - but what is this structure but lipstick on that pig - see SITEMAP | ASC  (tt2's excellent UserTip). The digital directory tree is merely an adaption of the familiar Fileroom of old... a room for files(computer), file cabinets w/ file 'folders'(folders) and files(files). Apple in the form of Jobs/Wozniak (actually Xerox, but I won't quibble) was groundbreaking in the introduction of the GUI to the masses. [see your comment on being forced to learn a new way of working... has always been thus]
  Let me add that the lack of Apple's implementation of the stock features of "Sticky" threads - Announcements, Hot Topics, etc., is a miscalculation. The CATEGORIES above the Using ASC list of threads - "Announcements" and "Community Events" - baffle me as to their usefulness as I can see neither when I click 'em, only some "filtering" of what is in the "Feedback about Discussions" (?Feedback ?about? Disscussions?) Category.
  you further said:
  "... the trend has shifted to formats such as this. While some retain some semblance of categories and topics (discussions), others seem to abandon this altogether in favor posts or discussions being related via tags or keywords... "
  Kids these days... => iDevices (generic for handheld smarty-devices of any stripe) are responsible for the VISUAL graphic design conventions... no more teensy-weensy cursor - but BIG FAT FINGERS.
  A good suggestion to submit at Support_Feedback  might be to improve the 'Smartness' of the search capabilities by REQUIRING tags to be attached by the OP (offer suggestions if they wish) AND FURTHER, allowing other users of status to ADD tags (see your ¶ #2) - my estimation of the ACTIVE SEARCH is that it is looking for matching terms in the title of a thread, but I have no proof - anecdotal or by documentation at JiveSoftware.
  additionally you said:
  "... the use of buttons to compel the original poster to designate responses as helpful or correct answers. This I would guess is in response to the myriad of answer seekers posting questions, receiving several helpful replies and never going back to say thanks, thus, the threads become all but useless for others who experience and seek out solutions to similar issues. "
  I have no experience with other enterprise solutions, but the scuttlebutt on Jive is that it is the best in the business at Community Collaborative WorkFlow Software for Big Enterprise. We here unfortunately have been given use of a mere pittance of Jive's features. Apparently the MARKUP buttons have a really valuable purpose in the complete package of Jive workflow management. Here, merely a system for rewarding helpers. The green icon goes un-noticed by most and the OPost is likely irrelevant to most individual's issue. Regarding the latter portion, you can't change human nature. Some folks just aren't team players.
  you continued:
  "... The new format also usually starts out with “ask your question here” which is just another way to say, “hey, how about at least giving the search a try before asking a question that’s been covered before”. Because many self-contained search features just don’t work, I can see why users just skip over it. But, what they may not know is that you can use Google to search a specific site. ... "
  This particular issue of "Why do folks not go to the dadgum forum related to their device/software?" has plagued me since actively taking part here. My maladies prompted ME to go directly to the forum/sub-forum where they belonged. Clearly "My iPhone is a BRICK - how do I UN-BRICK IT?" does not belong in this forum - Using ASC - but thousands of similar questions land here - it MAY be because the DEFAULT forum for un-PRE-visited forum at SUBMIT.
  The WELCOME page has the preferred path - a "Search or ask a question" field and the teeny -> New to the Community? Start Here.  link (actually Tutorials )
  -- neither of which content does anything to coach the new user in "How Do I Use This Joint?"
  Something akin to "Pick the Device or Software in which you are interested below" might at least get the visitor to the right place to BROWSE their issue. Many folks are unable to craft a TITLE to their question that even resembles their problem, much less explain it in the bodytext.
  This is explained  in the javascript:; link "How to write a good question"  - e content of which I leave open AND hi-lited in a text file ready to copy/paste, for example:
  Quoted from  Apple's "How to write a good question"
     To help other members answer your question, give as many details as you can.
  Include your product name and specs such as processor speed, memory, and storage capacity. Please do not include your Serial Number, IMEI, MEID, or other personal information.
  Provide the version numbers of your operating system and relevant applications, for example "iOS 6.0.3" or "iPhoto 9.1.2".
  Describe the problem, and include any details about what seems to cause it.
  List any troubleshooting steps you've already tried, or temporary fixes you've discovered.
  Here is how obscure that information is
  It's almost as if the confusion is by design.
  HOORAY! - another fan of the Google workaround. I get pooh-poohed by some for even suggesting going off the reservation, but it works WONDERFULLY and is FAST AS LIGHTNING with even more useful post-result filtering.
  you concluded your evaluation with:
  " So, then – what’s the best and right way to use this new forum? "
  Learn the system just like you did when you first started using a computer instead of paper. It is what it is. I have a comfortable WorkFlow established using browser bookmarks and Add-ons + Google for all searches + email notifications to sort the wheat from the chaff. Not adopted of my choosing... but at least it's MINE!! Be advised that the SiteWare employs some "we will save you from yourself, helmet-law-like features" that may frustrate you from time to time - until you discover (or are told) how to circumvent them.
  Some definitions:
  Apple Support Communities = Bulletin Board Software Site
  Community = Forum
  Category = Sub-Forum
  Question = Thread
  Reply = Reply
  Your not so "Brief History..." is clearly a good evaluation and Executive Summary. Are you SURE you're not an interactive developer?
  best regards
  CCC

• New iMac G5 but no classic support in Tiger?

  I have just bought a new iMac G5 20" with the latest Tiger 10.4x. When I want to install a peripheral or Quark from my old Os 9.2.2 it say "I do not have a version of Mac Os9 installed that supports classic or later." in the pop up window. I hit the ? button and it tells me to install from disc 2 the support files. When I do that it tells me there is nothing to install.
  A greyed out icon appears in the menu bar. A widget appears in the widget bar.
  I checked the startup disk to see if mac os9 was on it ,it's not.
  Do I have a dud install 2 disk? The icon is only an alias for os9 support files.

  What constitutes "compatibility" is partly what you mean by the word.
  From Tiger's built-in dictionary:
  "• (of a computer, a piece of software, or other device) able to be used with a specified piece of equipment or software without special adaptation or modification"
  By this definition, all recent Macs (except servers?) up to but not including the Intel-based ones are compatible with Classic, at least to the extent that installing the included Classic support is not considered a "special adaptation."
  I think most people would consider something like SheepShaver quite a special adaptation: from what I can tell, it requires both an image of the PowerMac ROM & a copy of the Mac OS, which I presume are not included with Intel-based Macs. I also note it claims only to offer a "varying degree of functionality" with listed systems, among them "Darwin/ppc," but no specific reference to Darwin + Intel support. The only Intel CPU reference I see is to "Linux/ia32 (AKA x86)" so I'm not sure this emulator really should or could be considered a replacement for Classic in OS X/Intel systems, even in a limited way.
  If you know otherwise, I'm sure that info would be of great interest to readers of this thread.

• New Problems in Tiger Classic (or iMac G5)

  Hi folks,
  I have the last version of Managing Your Money ever released and we have always been able to use it in Classic without any trouble at all. However, since we got Mac OS 10.4 (or maybe is was since we got the iMac G5; since they were nearly simultaneous, I'm not sure) MYM and/or Classic seems to display symptoms of a memory or other resource leak. That is, every window I open takes longer to open than the last one. Eventually, the program becomes practically unusable and I have to restart. If I keep using it without restarting, the iMac will eventually freeze and the force quit window won't even appear.
  We have never had this problem on previous versions of OS X, nor on previous models of iMac (we've used OS X with classic on two different G3 iMacs and a G4 iMac).
  Does anyone know of any differences that should be significant? Are there any Classic extensions that are known to have problems in Tiger or on G5 iMacs?
  Sincere thanks,
  Bill
  iMac G5 20 inch   Mac OS X (10.4.6)  

  I don't know MYM does it make no difference if you allocate more memory to it with file>Get Info>Memory, please?
  My own G5 runs classic exactly as my older G4 does, and since my configuratin is hardly likely to match yours, what does that prove?
  If it was my Mac, I'd copy the Classic System Folder, set the copy in Classic System Preference, set its Extension Manager Set to Mac OS (Base) then Restart Classic and reinstall MYM, which should now have nothing to interfere with it…

• Classic Environment and Tiger

  Hello, all. I installed Tiger about a month ago. (I was previously on 10.2.8.) Ever since then, I can't open any OS 9 applications. When I try to open one, I get this message:
  "Classic needs to update files in System Folder on Macintosh HD.
  These files will not affect starting your computer from the System Folder."
  My options are Update or Quit. If I Quit, then the Classic environment closes. If I Update, I get another message, which reads:
  "There is a problem with updating the Classic-specific files. Classic was unable to update its files in the System Folder on Macintosh HD."
  The only option there is Quit. If I Quit, then the Classic env. closes.
  Any suggestions?
  Thanks, all,
  Kev
  PowerMac G4   Mac OS X (10.4.2)  

  But if Mike can't install any software from the install disks then he can'at fix things he hasn't installed, either…
  Mike, if the Apple repair folks returned the wrong install disk you first need to get the right one, either by pressuring the repair folks or by purchasing a new set, which may still be available through some combination of AppleStore/AppleCare depending on your location…
  It is standard practice throughout the IT industry that when there is any problem at all in returning a machine with the same software/data set-up it had on arrival in the workshop, it will instead be returned in the theoretical factory state, which tends to mean with either the shipping software or the latest system updates.
  It's also a standard assumption that first backing up any data and/or settings is entirely the User's responsibility and maddeningly, the third standard practice is to assume that all Users know this in advance and do not need warning.
  No modern Mac ships with a System Folder for Classic installed, although if you did have the right original disk set all Macs capable of running X, up to and not including th enew Intel Macs, do include installers for pure or Classic 9 as appropriate… which takes us back to you first need to get the right one, either by pressuring the repair folks or by purchasing a new set, which may still be available through some combination of AppleStore/AppleCare depending on your location…
  If a friend can ever find his, the installers from a different Mac may not work at all on yours and if they do, may not produce anything stable.
  However, with 10.3's Disk Utility you should be able to mount and manually extract the System Folder from the coded image on a Restore - not an Install - disk from another Mac and use that for Classic, but not for pure bootable 9 on another Mac

• Samsung CLP 510 and OS Tiger Classic

  My Samsung CLP 510 usb printer just prints fine in OS Tiger with the driver provided by Samsung. However when i try a printout in classic, it does not work. The printer is connected via usb. The chooser option with the laserwriter 8 does not work. If i try to print there is the message, that the printer is not available. The desktop printer utility in classic does not find the CLP as an usb device.
  So i tried the LPD option with the TCP adress from my mac and the printer queue name provided by OS Tiger. If i try to print there is the following error message: error -8873 printer is busy or switched off.
  Powermac G5 dual 2.0   Mac OS X (10.4.9)  

  Thanks Greg,
  finally I found out what is going wrong. The firewall in os x tiger should be configured with active printer sharing. The print monitor for classic should be deactivated.
  The desktop printer utlility is not able to recognize some usb printers. So I decided to configure it as LPD Printer with the adress of my G5. The printer queue should be the exact name as in OS Tiger. So I created two desktop printers, one for the Samsung CLP, the other one for my HP Laserjet 3015. All print jobs are now transfered to the Cups OS X drivers. Works like a charm.

• Tiger Classic-ified the OS9 on the other partition.

  Hi,
  I recently bought this G4 QS and a 5-license DVD of Tiger (black disk with a silver 'X'), both second-hand.
  Being a newbie to OS X I also bought about 9 bookshelf inches of Tiger books.
  I fitted the G4 with a new 140 Gb hard drive and partitioned it roughly 100/40, taking care to put the OS9 drivers on both partitions.
  I then installed OS9.2.2 from a gray G4 installation CD onto both partitions (no apparent problems there) and then put Tiger onto the larger partition.
  I opted for this configuration because I have several older applications and files on my various older Macs and one of the books advised choosing a dual-boot system because not all older apps will run under Classic mode. I want to be able to be able to access my legacy files in the transition period until I have got more familiar with Tiger.
  Here are my questions:
  Tiger has modified the OS9 on the larger partition (which I expected it to do) but it has also modified (Classic-ified) the copy of OS9 on the smaller partition as well, is this normal?
  Will the machine behave properly as a dual-boot system?
  Did I make some mistake with my installation procedure and, if so, should I try to correct it?
  All helpful advice and suggestions will be gratefully received.
  Best regards,
  Pete.
  Message was edited by: Limey Pete
  Message was edited by: Limey Pete
  Message was edited by: Limey Pete

  OS X makes modifications to OS 9 to help classic mode. These modifications do not cause problems when you boot OS 9. There is normally no need for a separate partition for OS 9. OS 9 in an OS X partition can be used with OSX as Classic, or can be booted directly. There are a couple of reasons, though, why you might want separate partitions:
  1) You need to run some OS 9 applications that require modifications to OS 9 that make it not work as Classic in OSX.
  2) You want to be able to select OS 9 or Classic at boot time using the Option key. If they are in the same partition and boot is set to OS 9, you can get OSX by holding X while booting, but if it is set to OSX, you have to boot OSX, then choose OS 9 in the "Startup Disk" system preference.

• Installing Classic Mode on Tiger, DVDs, emulators

  I want to install classic mode on a Mac running OS 10.4 (Power PC processor). We have DVDs for three different kinds of Mac of the same generation, but none of them come with the extra tools CD/DVD that is mentioned in Apple's instructions and in other posts as containing OS 9. The install DVDs are the Swiss (German) version. Is the third DVD only in the US version?
  We have 9.0 CDs for two Power Mac G4s, plus one G4 computer that's broken, and one that's alive and well, running 9.2. Is there a way I could lift the system folder from this computer, copy it onto the hard disk on the 10.4 computer, and "bless" it, or is more required than the system fold for classic mode to run under Tiger? I'm wondering whether it's possible to install an emulator like Sheepshaver, since I could start with 9.0 and upgrade that to 9.2, and then transfer the necessary files (system folder plus ...?) to use the built-in classic environment.
  Any help would be much appreciated.

  You don't say exactly what computers are involved which places us at a disadvantage in helping you.
  If you have a copy of OS 9.1 or greater on a computer you can simply copy the whole System Folder to a PPC running Tiger and set it up to be Classic.  Put it at the root level next to OSX's "System".  If you actually want to boot to OS9, that's where knowing the details of the computers and operating systems involved is essential.
  Technically, system installations can be machine specific, but I think for OS9, and especially when used as Classic, this isn't as much an issue.  Classic isn't in charge of any hardware anyway.  Some people may post saying, "Oh, it absolutely must be installed correctly," but frankly I have copied OS9.2.2 from computer to computer as I worked my way through models and had it work on any model that supports OS9, and that was for booting.
  If all you have are installer versions of OS9 on optical that is where you may run into trouble and may ultimately end up needing copies of the original discs (which likely are no longer available).  You will have to get the computer to boot to the installer disc in order to get it to actually put a usuable copy of OS9 on the computer.  Again, this is where knowing the exact disc versions and exact computer specifications is important.
  Message was edited by: Limnos