Problem with the Pulse With Measurement with FP-CTR-502

I use a sensor that outputs a PWM-signal (10 Hz; "normal": Duty Cycle 20% (20 ms high, 80 ms low); high = 6 V, low = 0.5 V).
The sensor is connected to the Gate Input Channel of the FP-CTR-502 with an external supply voltage (Vsup) of 5 V.
I tried to measure the pulse width with the "Pulse_Width_Measurement_with_FP-CTR-50x.vi".
I know, that (due to the specifications) the FP-CTR-502 registers an ON
state when Vin is 2 or lower and an OFF state when Vin is 3 or higher -
which means that the measurement would be "upside down".
But my problem is that the (measurement-)results of the VI vary from
0.03 to 1.8 (without the presents of the substance that should be
measured!).
Does anyone know what the problem might be?

I can answer this question myself!
The answer is in the *OLD* version (July 2000) of the operator's manual for the FP-CTR-502. For some reason, this has been removed from the latest version (June 2003).
See page 11 of this link for more information:
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/322660a.pdf
Christopher Farmer
Certified LabVIEW Architect
Certified TestStand Developer
http://wiredinsoftware.com.au

Similar Messages

How do you create a finite pulse train using a FP-CTR-502?

I have recently replaced my FP-PG-522 module with a FP-CTR-502 module, to achieve higher output frequencies (FP-PG-522 max output freq is 5kHz, wheras the FP-CTR-502 max output freq is 16 kHz).
I need to be able to generate a finite pulse train. Has anybody created a finite pulse train using a FP-CTR-502 module before? I have started to look into it, but my ideas so far have been complicated (compared to doing it in a PG module).
Any tips on this would be much appreciated.
Christopher Farmer
Certified LabVIEW Architect
Certified TestStand Developer
http://wiredinsoftware.com.au
Solved!
Go to Solution.

I can answer this question myself!
The answer is in the *OLD* version (July 2000) of the operator's manual for the FP-CTR-502. For some reason, this has been removed from the latest version (June 2003).
See page 11 of this link for more information:
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/322660a.pdf
Christopher Farmer
Certified LabVIEW Architect
Certified TestStand Developer
http://wiredinsoftware.com.au

Pulse width measurement with FieldPoint CTR-502

I would like to measure the pulse width of a signal (ranging from 10 ms to
400 ms out of a signal with period width of about 1 second). I would like to
use a fieldpoint counter module FP-CTR-502. I could find examples on how to
measure frequency but I did not know how to alter it in order to obtain the
pulse width.
Thanks,
Martien

To measure pulse width of a fixed-period signal, you only need to use one counter, so the configuration and program would be different than the frequency measurement example. Set the count source for counter 0 to "32kHz Reference" and the gate source (and wire your signal) to "Gate Input 0." You'll also need to create a control channel to reset counter 0 (as described in the frequency example).
Your LabVIEW program should run as follows:
- When Gate Input 0 becomes true, do nothing
- When Gate Input 0 becomes false again, read then reset counter 0
- repeat
You can use FP Advise to wait for the gate to change (just like the frequency example).
Once you have the number of counts, you can divide that by the frequency (32 kHz) to calculate the "on tim
e" (pulse width) of your signal.
Regards,
Michael Shasteen
Applications Engineering
National Instruments
www.ni.com/ask
1-866-ASK-MY-NI

I need to count intermittent high speed pulses from an outside source with cFP-CTR-502 and labview.

I need to count intermittent high speed pulses from an outside source with cFP-CTR-502 and Labview 8.2 . I've found example code for generating pulses and creating intricate count setups but no straightforward examples of a simple counter. Any suggestions?

Hello tinfish,
I could not find a simple example that implements simple counting either, but it should be straightforward enough for us to try. Do you have the CTR module configured properly in MAX? If so, can you monitor the channels on your CTR 502 for input? Try connecting a square wave or some other digital pulse to the terminal to test the functionality of the counter module first (before programming). If you monitor the input channels with somethign connected you should see the count increment each time it sees a rising edge (assuming default configuration).
Once you've verified that everything works in MAX, you can set up your CTR module in a LV 8.2 project. If you need help with this, refer to the help document (look in the "Configuring FieldPoint in LabVIEW" section):
C:\Program Files\National Instruments\FieldPoint\documentation\Online Help\fplv.chm
You should be able to just read a channel tag from your CTR 502 using an FP Read VI. (Simply drag the channel from your project onto the block diagram). Since counting is the default behavior of the 502, there is no special programming involved to make it work.
I hope this helps -- if it's too high-level we can talk details about specific questions you have. Have a good one!
Charlie S.
Visit ni.com/gettingstarted for step-by-step help in setting up your system

[cRIO] Pulse width measurement

Hello, I am working with cRIO-9074 with digial I/O module 9403. I was wondering where I could find examples or a list of function relevant to measuring the pulse width of a digital input (with resolution of about 10 usec).
- Thank you

I've implemented something similar using the example given above, however due to hardware limitations I'm unable to use the SCTL, this isn't too much of a problem as I simply use a while loop with a 4-tick loop timer, however when driven with a constant digital signal I get the pulse width measurements 'bouncing' between two values, it's not out by 1 or 2 ticks, it jumps around 1000 ticks, it also 'sticks' when I slowly ramp up the frequency, suddenly jumping to other values
any suggestions? I'm currently using the FPGA open function and accessing the FPGA in (I believe) scan mode, could this be the culprit? I've not undertaken the RT training course yet so I'd be poking in the dark a little
this is for a proof of concept demo in a few weeks time!

Pulse width measurements

Hello,
I am trying to measure the pulse witdth of a signal that has a pulse width of 800 micro seconds. I am using the pulse width measurement VI with an indicator on the pulse duration output. The sample rate I am using to sample the signal is 10000 samples/sec. The pulse width measurement VI is returning a value of 8. I'm assuming that it is taking the pulse width of the signal and dividing it by (1/10000) which is the time between each sample. Is this correct?
Thanks

Hi Jimmy,
You said that you were using the Pulse Width Measurement VI. Are you using the Express VI (LabVIEW 7 or higher), the regular VI, or are you trying to use a counter to measure do your PWM?
Perhaps you could post a snippet of your code. It sounds like you've got the right answer, but knowing which method you are using could definitely help.
Regards,
Otis
Training and Certification
Product Support Engineer
National Instruments

Pulse Width Measurement

Hello Friends,
I am new to Labview. And now I am working on a project where I have to measure the pulse width.
I have attached a pulse waveform and would like to measure the pulse width of the first rising the falling edge and log it , rest of the signal I am not interesed in.
I will have this signal 6 times on my digital/analog input.
Can someone help me with the pulse width measurements.
Thank you.
Kind Regards,
Attachments:
Pulse width.PNG ‏60 KB

I get this pulse ( as in picture attached), I want to get it on analog or digital pins in such a way in get the pulse width of only 1st edge.
And this 1st edge lenght is different then the rest that follows. I would like to have the pulse width for only the 1st edge and log the width.
And similarly this signal will come from 5 more different sources. So each signal is different.
For now i connected it to AI0 and I can see the signal.
1) next step measure only the first edge.
2) 6X input channel
2) log it.
Attachments:
Pulse width.PNG ‏60 KB

When exactly do pulse width measurements start?

I am using a PCI-6601 to measure pulse width and period of a PWM signal in LabView (DAQmx).
I use ctr0 for the period and ctr1 for the pulse width. The period is measured between falling edges. As I am interested in the high pulses, the pulse width measurement is configured to start with a rising edge.
I do a buffered measurement with continuous samples.
I use a common start trigger (ArmStart) for both tasks.
Everything works just fine, but one thing puzzles me:
My start trigger can occur at any phase of the PWM signal, so I expected the first measurements to be invalid. This is true for the period measurement, but the pulse width is always correct. It doesn't matter in what phase my trigger occurs, the first reading of the pulse width is always correct.
Can someone tell me why?

This is speculation, but it's probably just that NI decided to follow slightly different rules for pulse width measurement than for some of the other counter measurements.
I've done triggered period and semi-period measurements before, but don't know that I've done triggered pulse width or frequency measurements.
For the two former cases, I know that the counter will start counting time immediately after the trigger edge. The first measurement represents the time from the trigger to the first active edge period (or semi-period) edge. It is often meaningless as you anticipated. For pulse widths, I suppose NI simply decided that the trigger will arm the counter but you also need the pulse's leading edge before you start counting to measure pulse width. So the first measurement is a true measure of pulse width and is never meaningless.
If this is true, then it may be tricky to sync / correlate the data in simultaneous measurements. For your particular app, you could get away with performing a single semi-period measurement and then calculating the periods and pulse widths. In other apps, it could get more difficult.
-Kevin P.

In Delayed Pulse Generation vi,Problem With THE PULSE WIDTH??

In Delayed Pulse Generation vi, I want to input a very low number for the Pulse Width while using an external timebase source. But the minimum pulse width has to be 2. Does anyone know how can I solve this problem??

Hey 45,
Unfortunately, there is no way to generate a pulse width smaller than 2x your external timebase.
There is an option to create a pulse of arbitrary width of your external source if you can afford some software processing in between. What you can do is use 1 counter to measure how many source edges of your card's internal timebase (80 MHz for TIO only, 20MHz or 100kHz for TIO and STC) your external signal is. This uses pulse width measurement as the counter application. Once you know how many source edges it takes to represent your pulse, then you can use triggered pulse generation and use the internal timebase with the pulse specs set to create the exact pulse width you want (and delay) and you can use your external pulse as the trigger. Th
is works well if your pulse is always the same width and you can measure it before hand. As an example, let's say your pulse is 20 internal timebase pulses when measured. This means you can use the pulse specs to specify a pulse width of 0.75 your pulse width by using only 15 internal timebase edges for your pulse width.
I don't know if I was clear above or not but if you give me your exact application you are looking to achieve, I might be able to help you out. Hope that helps.
Ron

Problem with Write To Measurement File Express VI not writing to file if file was deleted after the first call (7.1)

I'm using the Express Write to LabVIEW Measurement File in LV7.1.
I have it set to "Save to one file" and have tried both "Overwrite file" and "Using next available file name" for the "If a file already exists" conditions.
The path/filename is passed into the function.
It works fine the first time around. If the file is deleted before the function is called again, an error occurs since LV is unable to find the file.
I have had to stop and re-run my program in order to write to use the function again.
Since I am able to delete the file I assume it was closed but it seems like LV expects it to be there, even though the function was supposed to create/open/close the file... Is there any way to reset this without stopping/restarting the program?
Since my application creates several files (only one using the Express VI) I am checking for the filenames and requiring that they be deleted (or a new filename be used) before acquiring data. Everything has worked great, except for the Express VI.
Thank you,
David

Ok, I've edited the VI you posted to reproduce my error (this time with 8.0).
I added a "master stop" and "start log" button. To demonstrate my problem:
1. Run the VI
2. Click "START LOGGING" - c:\test.txt is created
3. Click "STOP" - c:\test.txt is closed
4. Delete the file c:\test.txt with Windows shell or explorer
5. Click "START LGGING" - a new c:\test.txt file should be created but instead an error is raised in the Write LabVIEW Measurement File function.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Dave
Attachments:
Write LV Meas File 2.vi ‏96 KB

Video Playback Problem with Developer Walkthrough of the Continuous Measurement and Logging Sample Project

Hi!
I have serious problems playing the video Developer Walkthrough of the Continuous Measurement and Logging Sample Project.
As the video pauses every few seconds for buffering. I am not able to watch it. Just wanted to check if you can playback the video:
http://zone.ni.com/wv/app/doc/p/id/wv-3401
This happens on any browser (chrome, ie, firefox). I am using Win XP and the latest Adobe Flash Player. About 2 weeks ago NI Germany confirmed the problem and promised to contact NI USA as they are responsible for these videos. So far nothing happened. In the meantime I received an e-mail that the problem could not be confirmed although they had confirmed it before...
Thank you for any feedback.
Regards,
Anguel

Hello ctVolFan,
As indicated in the "support" section of the SPOT, you should get in touch with self-paced-training(at)ni(dot)com. I don't believe that team monitors these forums directly.
Regards,
Tom L.

Is it possible to measure the pulse height of 20 ns pulses at 100 Khz with Fpga?

I would like to measure the pulse height of 20 ns width pulses at 100 Khz. The pulses arrive with a gating signal. I guess this would require a sampling speed of at least 500 MHz.
Itai

I agree with tbob if you are just trying to detect the pulse. If you want to measure the rise time ripple etc, then the 10 samples per pulse may not be fast enough. Nyquist talks about the highest freq component of your signal. For a 50MHz pulse the lowest freq component is 50MHz and the others are above (Check CRC handbook for fourier transforms).
Discalimer: Anything and evrything that I say that is math related should be taken with grain of salt. I once tried to take the log of a negative number!
Sanity Check Q:
Can a FPGA sample faster than it can loop? I thought the top end loop rate fro a FPGA was 40MHz
Oh well.... just trying to help!
Ben
Message Edited by Ben on 01-02-2008 01:03 PM
Ben Rayner
I am currently active on.. MainStream Preppers
Rayner's Ridge is under construction

Hello. I have a problem with the iphone. I had the misfortune of Smader it for a half years ago. but now all my pictures away. and I think it is a security various measures. what should I do?

hello. I have a problem with the iphone. I had the misfortune of Smader it for a half years ago. but now all my pictures away. and I think it is a security various measures. what should I do?

ckuan wrote:
iCloud pushes all your photos to the My Photo Stream album on your devices and computers, and manages them efficiently, so you don’t run out of storage space.
Your iOS devices keep a rolling collection of your last 1000 photos in the My Photo Stream album. From there, you can browse your recent photos or move the ones you like to your Camera Roll or another album to keep them on your device forever.
(Here's that part I'm bolding for you to reference): Because your Mac and PC have more storage than your iOS devices, you can choose to have all of your My Photo Stream photos automatically downloaded. In iPhoto or Aperture preferences on your Mac, select Photos (or Photo Stream) > My Photo Stream > Automatic Import. All of your photo stream photos will be imported into your Events, Projects, Photos, Faces, and Places folders in iPhoto or Aperture. On your PC with My Photo Stream enabled in the Control Panel, all of your photos will be imported into C:\\Users\<user name>\Pictures\iCloud Photos\My Photo Stream. For iCloud Control Panel 2.0 to 2.1.2 users, the path isC:\\Users\<user name>\Pictures\Photo Stream\My Photo Stream .
Exactly. It keeps a collection of the most recent 1000 photos in your Photostream Album on your iOS device. That's the limit of the displayed images on an iOS device. Not the upper limit of storage. It's like the call history. You can have more than 100 calls, but only the most recent 100 calls show on the device. You can still get your entire call history from your wireless carrier. And you can still download all of your Photostream photos from Photostream using iCloud Control panel on a PC, or the iCloud option in System Preferences on a Mac.
iCloud: My Photo Stream and iCloud Photo Sharing limits
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4858
http://help.apple.com/icloud/#/mmc0cd7e99
My Photo Stream upload limits
The My Photo Stream limits below are established based on anticipated upload patterns. Currently, My Photo Stream upload limits are as follows:
Uploads to My Photo Stream per hour: 1000 photos
Uploads to My Photo Stream per day: 10,000 photos
Uploads to My Photo Stream per month: 25,000 photos
If you exceed one of these limits, your uploads to My Photo Stream will be paused temporarily and you may see a notification message on your device. Your uploads will resume automatically after you no longer exceed one of the limits, such as in the following hour or on the following day.
You can upload 10,000 photos in a single DAY.

The Problems With Logic (as I see them) - PART TWO!

Hello again,
It seems to be a tradition now that as I compose on a track, I keep a text editor open so that I can jot down all the annoyances and problems that I encounter during my creative process... Anyone who missed the previous edition of this topic, please visit PART ONE, here:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=3605456#3605456
That said, here I give you "The Problems With Logic Part II":
1. Logic should clear the playback buffer everytime you play. Quite often you start playing and there is trailing reverb/note events from various audio instruments and plug-ins.
2. The sample edtor "save selection as" has no memory of where you previously were in the file browser.
3. If you double click on a wave form, the sample editor opens up with the wave form you double clicked on... Great.. But now, if you go and double click on another wave form somewhere, it just takes you back to the sample editor with the same previous wave form selected (not great). This is incredibly annoying if you are attempting to save out certain edits-- Quite often you will end up saving 5 or 6 of the same exact waveform, thinking you were saving each individual one. GRR!
4. Key commands.. if you try to assign a key command to something that is already used by another feature, you are presented with a window warning you that it already exists.. If you click cancel, then you can no longer enter any keys in the key field.. You are forced to close the key commands preferences window and start over.
5. Key command window: You should be able to search by command.. For example, if I want to find out what "o" is assigned to, I should be able to search by O-- Further, you should be able to sort the key commands by clicking the column titles "key", "command" -- or "midi"... After all, we can sort by name, date, size, etc in the finder by clicking on these column titles.
6. Tempo Tap feature-- I am quite confused by this. There should be a simple way to tap and define a tempo. When ever i try to do this, the tempo is only temporarily changed until I stop playing, and most of the time I get error alerts about trying to sync audio and midi (mind you, when there are absolutely no parts in the entire arrange window). The manual states that with "tempo recording" checked on the tempo interpreter window, that the taps will record tempo changes, but this does not work. I tried doing this, tapping the key command I defined to tempo tap (ctrl-shift-t), and I was tapping at various speeds-- many taps fast.. and Logic recorded tempos of 99-101bpm.. I was tapping atleast around 175-180bpm. I then tried tapping slowing, and Logic recorded tempos of 99-101 again... so this feature obviously is full of bugs.
7. When loading songs, as soon as various plugins such as Kontakt, exs24 begin loading samples, it brings logic to the front. If you're working in the background in other applications while waiting for your songs to load, you are rudely interrupted from what you're doing (such as, selecting from a menu, typing a document, etc) only to be forced to watch a status bar fill up.. and then all key presses at that point become error beeps.
8. Logic's sample memory easily becomes messed up and crazy. Quite often when using AU instruments such as BFD, Culture, and even Synthogy's Ivory. I will switch to that particular track to play on my keyboard, and each sample will be full of horrible pops and clicks-- the kind that destroy speakers. Other times, in a sample of a string for instance, all of a sudden after one second will be a pop and then the sample will be playing at a completely different pitch... I have to remove the AU instrument and reload it at this point.. This happens quite often. Logic should offer a 'buffer reset' so that you can just flash plugins but they reload whatever preset they were set to.
9. Volume faders resolution are lame! There is no reason why you shouldnt be able to access +1.0, +1.1, +1.2, +1.3, +1.4, +1.5, +1.6, +1.7, +1.8, +1.9... Further the display is only so wide and you can't even read the decimal values for numbers -10 and lower. They just appear as 10.
10. When a movie is open, and you are viewing the video output via FIREWIRE, there is a mini-floating window which contains the smpte, position, and movie start information-- However you cannot modify any of these values. You have to switch video output back to "WINDOW" to change the start position of the movie. This is obviously a bug.
11. Changing the movie's start time is very user unfriendly. There should be a simple way to specify to start at a moment of time relative to SMPTE-- So you can just say "+9:15" for example, and it would take you in 9 minutes and 15 seconds, rather than how it is now where you have to think backwards from SMPTE code and subtract.
12. You cannot view video as a window AND output to firewire. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do this. For example, if I wanted to output my video to a monitor in a vocal booth-- I can do this.. but I can't see what the vocalist is seeing on my own screen! This is just nonsense. You should be able to output to the screen (desktop mode or floating window) as well as an external firewire device.
13. Saving a song with a movie open should mean that when you load that song, the movie should be up and exactly as it was prior to saving. As it is now you have to select "open movie again".
14. There is still definitely a bug in track automation-- this was really bad back in version 4, but there is still something not quite right here where starting playback will not always guarantee that the automation data is being read.. And in my experiences it results in volumes being incorrect until you stop and play again, and in some cases it will not work at all unless you plot some automation points. This is an intermittent issue-- but quite often activated by placing an audio region from the audio window on a track (SEE VIDEO).
WATCH VIDEO OF THIS BUG:
http://collinatorstudios.com/www/logicbugs/logicautomationbug.mov
15. In the arrange window, sometimes when zoomed in tightly, all parts on a track are selected, and you think that only the part that you are looking at is selected.. you move this part, and now all of your parts are off. Logic should have some kind of visual aid to let you know when ever you are moving multiple selections... Something like, the parts you are moving will highlight a dfferent color or something... This is a similar problem I have with the loop area of the screen.. You can accidentally turn it on when in the matrix window, and have no idea unless you look down at the transport, but with me for example, my transport is at the very bottom of the screen and I am not looking there most of the time.
16. Automation data, when two points are semi-close to each other, suddenly the value of the data is no longer shown.. I can understand that when you are zoomed out, and there is simply no space for this to visually appear, that's appropriate. But as it is now, it doesn't display this information when there is plenty of space for it to be visible.
17. Logic should let you set audio track inputs to the various outputs (1-2, 3-4, etc) and buses.
18. clicking on a track selects ALL parts. This is so so so annoying. How many times have I been editing voice over, and selecting a track, thinking I am shrinking the length of a part, and to find that ALL parts have been shrunk.. SO ANNOYING!!!! This needs to not happen, and there should be a simple way to right-click a track and it will have an option "select all regions"... also, when you click on a track and all parts are selected, if you horizontally zoom, logic zooms into the beginning of the track, rather than the song locator. I don't know what the LOGIC behind this is, but it's not very helpful, it actually is very frustrating.. Zooming should always move towards the song locator position.
19. EXS 24 should have a "reverse/backwards" button so that samples played are backwards.
20. Logic should offer a way to globally increase or decrease a specific automation type (especially volume) globally for all tracks... So if you have detailed crescendos that start at -3.8 and end at +1.6, you can add 3db to this and it will now be at 0.8 and end at 4.6.
21. If you have multiple tracks of the same track (such as three Audio track #1's)-- say you are recording guitar parts, and just copying the track and muting the previous track as a method of maintaining multiple takes for later auditioning. If you draw automation volume data on this track (it appears on all 3 tracks), and then if you delete the audio from one of the muted tracks and tell logic to KEEP it, suddenly all automation data is gone. GRR!!!
22. Several times I have opened Kontakt, and attempted to load an instrument while outputting a movie via firewire video to my monitor. As soon as I try to load the instrument, the firewire video output on my monitor goes crazy, and then comes back on.. Logic then crashes. This has happened 3 times randomly...
23. UNDO does not work on every function. for example, if you change an output to bus 1 instead of 1-2, you cannot undo this. Undo should undo whatever the last command was, no matter what it was. This is what the word LOGICal is supposed to represent.
24. Floating windows (as in plugin windows) should close with apple-w!!!
25. *BUG* If you are in a part that is say 10 measures long, zoom in horizontally 100% in the matrix window-- You then isolate one specific quarter note pitch in the middle of this measure, and have cycle turned on, looping over this one quarter note, if you are not looking at this note event/loop region when you hit play, the display will jump to the beginning of the part and never show you this note event as it loops. However if you have the note event on screen when you hit play, then it will behave properly. This makes it extremely difficult and frustrating to perform detailed hyper-draw work. (SEE VIDEO)
WATCH VIDEO OF THIS BUG:
http://collinatorstudios.com/www/logicbugs/logicloopbug.mov
26. *BUG* Host Automation is not accurate. I assigned Kontakt's tune knob to C#000, and If I place a dip, the knob begins to move way before the automation data is even present.... So basically what I was trying to do, can't even be accomplished because Logic screws everything up by pitching the instrument too early... Such a shame.. By the way, I previously mentioned the importance of being able to display part data in the arrange window as matrix data (horizontal lines) rather than score data. Someone argued what good this would do-- Well this is a perfect example, if I am attempting to affect a particular section of a note with automation, I can't possible visually see where this is because the length is not described by the current score representation. Having a horizontal representation would solve this problem... (SEE VIDEO)
WATCH VIDEO OF THIS BUG:
http://collinatorstudios.com/www/logicbugs/logicctrlchngbug.mov
27. There should be a way to convert stereo samples to mono in the sample editor.
28. When you view "as text" in the environmentt, you cannot drag an object to the arrange window-- Such as to create a bus track.. Now mind you I don't know why you can't just select "BUS" when editing a track in the arrange window in the first place, however there is no reason why 'view as text' should behave differently than when it's viewed as icons.
29. When you drag a bus from the environment to the arrange window, it replaces whatever track was there. It should ADD a track instead of replace-- atleast there should be a preference for how this behaves.
30. Occasionally when dragging a bus from the environment, there is some visual garbage in the track automation (see screenshot).
31. There should be a way to LOAD and SAVE selections in the arrange window. Quite often when editing audio from a countless number of parts/regions, it becomes painful when you have to select and move 100s of audio files. There should be a way that you can just select a ton of regions and save that selection, and reload it at anytime. There are a few 'select' tools/options under the edit window, however they are song specific-- not track specific. So they are completely usesless for what I need.
32. Logic should offer a feature to collect sysex data from midi devices so that patch names show up and can be selected via program change.
33. When no track or part is selected, and you vertically zoom in, Logic should zoom into the center most track.. It behaves very oddly and zooms in more towards the top. This becomes extremely annoying when dealing with a sequence involving 100 tracks, and a part is selected but you scroll far below where the part is.. When you begin to zoom in, it takes you towards the selected part, yet it's not displayed on the screen and you have no reference for what you are even looking at. The rule should be this: If the part is on the screen, zooming vertically will bring you to it. If it's off the screen, you will zoom into the center track of whatever is currently on the screen.
34. I mentioned this in a thread earlier... http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=752485&tstart=0
There is a bug when using the transform tool involving the 'position' variable. In my example, I was attempting to reverse the time placement of three chords, that occured in a part somewhere in the middle of my song. By selecting the measure start and end of this part, Logic was unable to select or operate with the transform tool (and I tried a variety of transform options). If I moved this part to the beginning of the song, then the transform tool would suddenly work. After some research, I found online someone had said "Position Time position of the event, referenced to the start of the MIDI Region (not of the song)."--- But if I still doubt this is true, because I then placed the part on a new track with no other data, and placed it in the middle of the sequence and in the transform tool under position I selected '1 1 1 1' to '5 5 5 5' as well i tried setting the position to 'all', and none of this worked. This obviously is a bug... If it's not then it's a very serious design flaw. The position should relate to measure numbers of a song, and nothing else.
WATCH VIDEO OF THIS BUG:
http://collinatorstudios.com/video/transform.mov
That is all for now...
For those who firmly agree with me and all of the points that I have brought up now and in the past, I encourage you to contact Peggie Louie, (the Logic HR department contact) at (408) 996-1010 and suggest that she hire me as a consultant to help eliminate Logic's many annoyances. I have tried to pursue this heavily in the past, but sadly I was completely ignored by her on all levels. Maybe you all can help make a difference?
Fighting the good fight,
Patrick J. Collins
http://collinatorstudios.com

11. Changing the movie's start time is very user
unfriendly. There should be a simple way to specify
to start at a moment of time relative to SMPTE-- So
you can just say "+9:15" for example, and it would
take you in 9 minutes and 15 seconds, rather than how
it is now where you have to think backwards from
SMPTE code and subtract.
For this one I'd suggest getting SMPTE calculator. Entering timecode numbers and having to add and subtract is not so difficult, and AFAIC part of a composer's gig. But what I would add, instead, is that it would be fantastic if Logic provided a timecode calculator (edit: even if it was in the form of a custom Logic widget).
13. Saving a song with a movie open should mean that
when you load that song, the movie should be up and
exactly as it was prior to saving. As it is now you
have to select "open movie again".
This doesn't always happen. I've struggled with this for a long time, and I don't know why sometimes the movie will load and not other times. I would also add here that Logic should show the file pathname to the movie. Somewhere...
18. clicking on a track selects ALL parts. This is
so so so annoying.
You can prevent this from happening if you have cycle turned on and set to a set of locators that "contain" the parts you might want to select en masse. I always work with cycle=on so this is not a problem.
21. If you have multiple tracks of the same track
(such as three Audio track #1's)-- say you are
recording guitar parts, and just copying the track
and muting the previous track as a method of
maintaining multiple takes for later auditioning. If
you draw automation volume data on this track (it
appears on all 3 tracks), and then if you delete the
audio from one of the muted tracks and tell logic to
KEEP it, suddenly all automation data is gone.
GRR!!!
Never had that happen. In my experience, telling Logic to keep the data always works.
23. UNDO does not work on every function. for
example, if you change an output to bus 1 instead of
1-2, you cannot undo this. Undo should undo whatever
the last command was, no matter what it was. This is
what the word LOGICal is supposed to represent.
Undo in Logic is highly problematic for other reasons. Here, I think there should be a specific Environment Undo, just like there's a separate undo for audio edits.
29. When you drag a bus from the environment to the
arrange window, it replaces whatever track was there.
It should ADD a track instead of replace-- atleast
there should be a preference for how this behaves.
Right. This is a matter of personal preference. But still there are other ways to get an object assigned to a track. The "thru tool", for instance. No dragging required.
32. Logic should offer a feature to collect sysex
data from midi devices so that patch names show up
and can be selected via program change.
My guess: considering how much sheer time it takes to write this kind of software, let alone debug it with every conceivable device, it's not likely this is going to happen.
That is all for now...
For those who firmly agree with me and all of the
points that I have brought up now and in the past, I
encourage you to contact Peggie Louie, (the Logic HR
department contact) at (408) 996-1010 and suggest
that she hire me as a consultant to help eliminate
Logic's many annoyances. I have tried to pursue this
heavily in the past, but sadly I was completely
ignored by her on all levels. Maybe you all can help
make a difference?
Wait in line buddy!
(LOL)
I must say, I'm very impressed with your list and attention to detail. And I feel your pain, trust me. But many of the things you've listed are feature requests and not bugs. And some of the behaviors you've described I have yet to run across. So this is typical with Logic, that it can be operated in so many diverse ways that no two people run it in the same way, nor would two people conceive the program's capabilities in the same way. But I digress...
I also think there's a certain amount of Logic convention that I don't think you've adopted yet, hence your wish for behaviors that don't yet exist.
I don't disagree with most of your feature requests, and I'm (quite unfortunately) able to say that I'm familiar with most of these bugs and about 9 dozen more. But again, it's important to distinguish between bug, feature request, time to RTFM, and errant behavior that's experienced by a very limited number of users.
There's no doubt that this program has its problems. In particular, your #1 re the playback buffer. And I'm glad you've brought many of the bugs into the light for people to read. Good work.

The problems with Logic (as I see them)

Hello Everyone,
Please keep in mind that I am writing this with the intention of expressing my frustrations, and what I feel would make Logic a better program. I realize not everyone will agree with the importance of what I say, but I am a firm believer of HAVING THE OPTIONS. Let the users choose what works for them and how they can best accomplish the tasks that they need to with their individual workflow.
That being said, here is my list of Logic's faults and why I often call Logic "Illogic".
General:
* Logic should have a feature to automatically save your song every X number of minutes. Final Cut Pro does this, why doesn't Logic? It should prompt you "Logic can automatically save your project if you save it" (assuming the current file is 'autoload') to remind users that they should create a project name and save their work.
* There should be a preference option for all windows to open as 'float'. Once upon a time holding option while double clicking parts would open them as a float (though having to hold down option every time in my opinion is an inconvenience, because I personally ALWAYS want my windows open as a float), however.. now in 7.2 that does not seem to work anymore. So, theoretically after you set your prefence to 'always float', then the when you hold option or control and click on a particular window, it will bring that window to the foreground...
* The loop region at the top of the screen is larger than the time-line ruler tab. This is the #1 annoying thing about logic. so many times, I click on an area of the ruler tab to start playing at a specific section.. and somehow I ACCIDENTALLY click on the loop area... If I could ask for ANYTHING it would be that there is an option to disable LOOPING turning on and off from clicking up there. My 2nd request would be that the ruler tab be re-sizeable so that it can be larger than the loop area. This is especially the case for the matrix window where it default opens up to a sizing where the actual time line is so tiny, and the loop region is HUGE.... Every time I open a matrix window I have to resize this and again the loop area is 2x as big as the timeline area, so I end up wasting screen space just to avoid the annoying loop feature being trued on. My suggestion is, require that the loop button on the transport be the only way to turn on the loop feature (other than key commands), and only when it's turned on can loop points to be set. Why is the loop area so big anyway?!?!
* Logic should offer a TALK BACK MIC button which will utilize the built-in apple microphone or iSight microphone and allow that to be sent to the audio interface. This would be an extremely useful feature for studio recording setups.
* Starting logic takes approximately 5 minutes for me. It says "scanning exs24 instruments" for the majority of the time, and I admit my sample library is huge. however, my sample library has not changed in over a year. Why does logic have to continuously scan it??? Can it not make a reference of how many files, compare and if its larger-- then scan???
Song Loading:
* When audio files are not found during loading a song, it asks you the first time what you want to do "search", "manual", and "skip"... if you click "skip", and then it finds another missing file, it no longer presents you with the "SKIP" option.. but forces you to either search or skip all.. Let's say you have a project that used 5 audio files that are all missing because you had them on a different hard drive, but have copied the data somewhere else. The first two files it asks for you don't need.. but you know where the 3rd file is.. So your plan is to skip the first two files and then click manually for the 3rd.. but oh.. YOU CAN'T DO THAT! You have to find your first 2 files if you want to even have the option to locate your 3rd file... Unless you are planning to locate the files within the audio window-- but still, Logic should not be so unfriendly.
Further, If you choose "manual", and what you're looking for isn't where you thought it was-- You realize you actually want to search for it.. So you click cancel and guess what.. It assumes you want to skip it, and so you either have to reload your project again, or deal with this in the audio window. Bottom line is this window should always have "Search", "Manual", "Skip", and "Skip All".
* When you open another project, Logic DUMPS all of the audio instrument data in memory. This is one of the worst things about logic. If you are working between multiple files-- such as when scoring a film, and you are using different files for different cues, then this becomes a complete nightmare and a waste of your time. Logic should be assessing "What instruments are in common between these two projects"... And utilizing all audio instruments to the best of the machine's memory capacity. There is no reason for Logic to behave like this.. I've had to revert back to previous versions of the same song because some data was different, and I am just trying to visually compare various settings one from the other.. Just clicking from one project's window to the other requires me to have to wait 3-4 minutes while Logic loads all these audio instruments (WHICH ARE IDENTICAL IN BOTH PROJECTS BY THE WAY!!!).. This is just incredibly dumb, and creatively stifling.
* BUG * -- Mind you, if you have two projects open, and you close one.. Logic begins loading all the audio instruments of the remaining project.. If you close that project as it's loading audio instruments, Logic will crash.
Matrix Stuff:
* BUG * If you have a part with lots of notes, and you begin to make a selection and scroll horizontally through all the content until then entire part is covered in the selection... After you release the mouse button and make this selection, quite often many random notes are unselected. This can be demonstrated by watching the following quicktime move:
http://www.collinatorstudios.com/video/logicbug.mov
* When you select a single note in the matrix window, it sounds.. This is a GREAT feature... However, when you make a selection of multiple of notes, they all sound at the same time.. This is just plain dumb. It once blew up my speakers... There is NO reason why a multiple selection would need to sound.. It's just dumb.. bad for your speakers, bad for your ears. The rule should be, if selection box = yes, then sound = no... else, sound = yes.
* When viewing the matrix window while recording, all note events disappear until after recording stops. This is highly annoying (and illogical) as it causes confusion if you are relying on watching the note events in that part to know where you are supposed to come in.
* The grid cannot be set to divisions other than 2 or 3. Musicians use 5 and 7!!! And also, can logic please offer an option to display the grid as NOTE symbols... It is much more musician friendly to see a 16th note with a 3 over it than "24". 24 means nothing to me as a musician.
* Quantizing should allow custom input for tuplets.. So that users can quantize odd figures such as 13:4 for example.
* If you move the song locator to a specific time location in the arrange window, and then double click a part to open it in the matrix window, the window is not opened to the locator's position. Thus causing annoyance and confusion as far as what the user is even looking at.
* During horizontal scrolling of the window, the locator temporarily disappears, making it difficult to find where the locator is-- which usually is a marker for us to know what we are trying to find-- ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU OPEN A WINDOW AND IT'S NOT EVEN DISPLAYING THE SONG LOCATOR'S POSITION!!!
* If you have two parts on the same arrange track, adjacent to each other and you enter the matrix window of the first part.. (assuming the link/chain icon is lit) When you scroll to the end of the note data, logic automatically takes you to the next part... The problem with this as it is, is that it does not take you to the FIRST note event of the text part, but rather continues to align the song locater with where ever it previously was (so you end up viewing somewhere further down in the next part).. To clarify, say you have a part what begins at MM-7 and ends at MM-14, the 2nd part begins at MM-15 and ends at MM-22.. If you begin scrolling the song locator past measure 15, then suddenly you see measure 22. When you really should be seeing measure 15. This is confusing and weird.
* Every time you enter the matrix window of a part, the chain/link button is on. For me, this is incredibly annoying. There should be a way to set this so that the button's default is OFF...
* When you move the mouse around the matrix window, whatever pitch corresponds to the vertical location of the mouse--- that particular key of the piano keyboard on the left side of the window should highlight so you could clearly see what note you are hovering over.. Logic tries to help with this by offering things like contrast options for C D E, but this clearly would be much more helpful.
* With the velocity tool you can (MOST OFTEN ON ACCIDENT) double click on empty space in the window and cause all note events in all parts to appear on the screen-- Yet once you do this, you can't double click on a particular part's note to only display that part again. You have to switch to the arrow tool to do this. This is inconsistent and ILLOGICAL...
ON A SIDE NOTE: PLEASE ENABLE A FUNCTION TO DISABLE THIS "ALL NOTES OF ALL PARTS APPEAR" when double clicking on empty space feature! I want NOTHING to happen when I double click within the matrix window... Make it a button within the window or just an option in the drop down menu only. * BY THE WAY * When you DO double click the background of the matrix window and multiple parts appear.. If you move notes of one part to match it up with other, it is incredibly slow. there is a 1-2 second pause each time you move a note move.. My g5 fan goes on each time I do this.. I'm sorry, there shouldn't be anything too CPU intensive to accomplish this simple task!!! I am only viewing 2 parts at the same time and it's slowing down my cpu...
* Occasionally when I adjust note lengths, I accidentally double click on an actual note.. This opens the event list editor, and there is an intermittent bug where this note sounds-- and for some reason when the event list opens, the note sounds on top of itself a million times, so the result is a super loud flanged note which again, almost blows up my speakers and hurts my ears... PERSONALLY, I would like an option that DISABLES the note event list from opening by double clicking. Preferences currently has "double clicking a midi region opens: <selectable>"--- why not also have "double clicking a NOTE in matrix window does: <selectable>"-- and please allow "DO NOTHING" to be one of the options.
* Why does the finger tool only change the end position of the note event??? Should this not be replaced with the bracket tool which appears automatically when using the arrow tool on closely zoomed in notes? This finger tool seems like an outdated old logic feature which has been replaced and improved upon. What would be nice is to have this bracket tool where we can be assured we are altering note start and end positions without moving things.
* In the hyper-draw >> note velocity section--- This is highly annoying to work with... It's far from user friendly. first of all, to move a note's velocity position, you have to click on the "ball".. if you click on the line, it does nothing.. Because the ball is so small to begin with, quite often the user is going to miss the ball and somehow begin to "START LINE"-- Which is weird because it's activated by holding the mouse button down briefly. There really should be a "line tool" for this, because "START LINE" is too easily accidentally activated-- this is frustrating for the user. Most important though, these 'velocity markings' should be adjustable by clicking on the line as well-- not just the ball.. there should be a 2-3% area around each ball/line which logic will recognize as part of the ball/line so that it can easily be moved. I also feel that there should be some specific features for this section, such as a way to select multiple note velocities and apply a random pattern to them, or apply a logarithmic curve to the line tool. Yes, you can accomplish this stuff somewhat with the transform tool-- but this way would be more user friendly, and allow a lot more creative flow.
Event list/Tempo list:
* When one event is selected, by moving down X number, holding shift+clicking SHOULD select all events between those two points. However, the shift key for some reason acts as the OPTION key does in the finder-- (meaning it will only add one additional selection at a time).. This is highly inconsistent with the actual behavior of a Mac... Open a finder window and hold shift and click on items that are not vertically next to each other and a group is selected... Now do it in logic, and it causes GREAT frustration and annoyance. What happens if you have a million note events that you want to erase? You have to go page by page and click with shift on each one?? Or drag a selection and wait for logic to scroll you to where you want to go?????????? No thanks.
Arrange stuff:
* "REGIONAL CONTENT" (meaning the visual representation of note events) does not accurately depict the event data as note lengths cannot be visually identified. Everything shows up as a generic quarter note... My #1 suggestion is that regional content should be customizable so that you can view it in a miniature matrix data style. The biggest problem for me is that I cannot see where my notes end-- I can only see where they start, this makes it very difficult to identify what I am looking at.
* Track automation data should only be inputable by the pencil tool. I cannot mention how many times automation data has accidentally altered when using the arrow tool. The pencil tool should allow you to raise and lower the lines reflecting automation data... What is the point using the pencil tool for automation if it's only function is to create "points" yet you can also create points with the arrow tool..??? Pencil tool should act as the arrow tool does in the sense that it raises or lowers automation data.
* Recording preferences do not offer the option to automatically merge new part with existing part when a region is NOT selected. How annoying is it to have to select a part every time you want to record something just so it will be included in that original part!
* Ruler at the top of the screen should also give an option for tuplets. 5, 7, etc.
* When in record mode, if you click on the ruler to another time position, all audio instruments cut out and it takes approximately 3-4 seconds before tracks begin playing audio. This becomes very annoying if you are trying to do a pick up and want to just start 1 measure before hand.
* There should be a way to EASILY (without having to cable two tracks together in the environment) temporarily link multiple tracks together so that automation data will be duplicated. So theoretically you can link 3-4 tracks together, and by adding automation data to one, you are adding it to all 4.
* If a part is soloed, and you hit record. The part stops being soloed and you can no longer hear it. This makes it impossible to record a pick up on a soloed track unless it's locked, but it shouldn't need to be locked.
* When you are zoomed in tightly, and you are trying to align notes within two parts on different tracks (meaning using the PSEUDO NOTATION DATA that appears in the part to align), there needs to be a VERTICAL line that snaps to the note closest to the mouse cursor. When trying to do this in parts that are a far vertical distance apart, it becomes VERY difficult to eye this alignment. Logic does this with automation data.. but for some reason they left it out for actual part alignment...
* There should be a way to force the downbeat of a measure to occur at any given moment... What I mean by this, is composing for film is an absolute PAIN in Logic. Scenes, last for odd amounts of time, and Logic's reference manual claims that you can solve this by using various tempo tricks, however it is ineffective for the most part. What Logic needs is the ability where you can click on a drop down menu item within the arrange window and FORCE that where ever the song locator is, the rest of the measure is eliminated and a new measure downbeat occurs right there. This will allow you to always have new scenes on the downbeat of a measure without having to mess with your tempo and meter.
Hyper Edit Window:
* I can't even begin to comment on this... The hyper edit window is one of the worst things I have ever seen in a music/audio program. It is a horrible interface, you can't get it to do anything correctly without messing everything up. This thing needs a complete overhaul... I mean, just try to create a simple crescendo with note velocity and it will take you all night.. Try to add pitch bend data, and it adds note velocity data as well.. It's a total nightmare, and I would love to hear someone's practical application of this window.
Score Window:
* The method that the song position locator moves along with the notation is very strange. It is not at all how a person's eyes function when reading music. A much more logical approach to this would be for a transparent colored block of some type to highlight an entire measure, and each note head will glow as it sounds. The current way is so strange, it speeds up and slows down-- makes absolutely no sense, and it is more disruptive than anything.
* When the Hyper Draw > note velocity area is exposed, if you use the velocity tool to increase/decrease a particular note's volume, the data in the hyper draw window does not update in real-time as you use the velocity tool. This behavior is inconsistent with the matrix > hyper draw's note velocity section-- where as in that area, the velocity ball/lines do update in realtime.
EXS24:
* when you are in many levels of subdirectories and you are auditioning instruments, it becomes very time consuming and annoying to have to continually trace through all the subdirectory paths. There should be a feature directly under the load instrument window that takes you to the subdirectory of the current instrument.
* Seems when SONG SETTING > MIDI > "chase" is turned on... When starting sequences using audio instruments, (I am using a harp sample within the exs24), there is a latency hiccup upon starting, which is very disruptive when trying to listen to a short isolated moment in a composition. And I do want to chase note events in general-- but this present situation makes it difficult for me to work. I would suggest that you can specify tracks to exclude chasing.. Or fix the latency hiccup issue.
Thank you.
-Patrick
http://collinatorstudios.com

this is excellent patrick. can you number your points so that the thread can be discussed?
1. yes
2. ok
3. great idea
4. even better idea. you could set something up with aggreagate device i suppose but it would be better to have the feature to hand.
5. you need to look into your project manager prefs. scan the paths and the links to the audio files will be saved meaning they will load up in a fraction of the time.
6. yes this is nuts. you can skip all and sort it out with PM but then you shouldn't have to.
7. this exists already. perhaps it ought to be a default but you need to set your esx prefs to 'keep common samples in memeory when switching songs'. then it will do just as you wish it to. you can also use the au lab in the devlopers kit which will allow you to load in au units etc seperately from logic, which logic can then access. this is a good way of getting around the 4 GB memory limit with logic too.
8. ok, don't know about this bug.
9. yep happens here too.
10. doesn't worry me this one. you can turn off midi out.
11. yes this is silly.
12. well, i think this is something we can get used to. i am a musician and i am used to seeing '24'.
13. you can already set up groove templates to allow for quantizing irrational tuplets. i do it all the time. i would like to see step input for irrational tuplets though.
14. yes this is silly. the button for the KC 'content catch' is getting very worn out.
15. ok.
16. not sure i understand this one.
17. yes this drives me nuts too. i have to lock screensets to get this to stay off.
18. you can use KCs for 'go into/out of sequence' - but yeah.
19. ok
20. there are a couple of features that use old technology that cause hangs and poor performance. score is a good example of that. maybe the matrix is too. the score is being updated we assume with newer technology maybe the matrix will too.
21. there are probably better ways of adjusting velocity than using matrix or hperdraw velocity. have you tried holding control-option and click dragging a note in score?
22. as i pointed out in 20, this is an old feature. you could change things to be consistent with modern macs and annoy long term users such as myself, or leave them and let them be inconsistent to confuse newbies. i think depending on what it is we oldies could upgrade our work habits.
23. this one doesn't worry me so much.
24. good point (no pun intended).
25. well, i find the opposite - that merging new parts to objects i have accidentally selected to be annoying. perhaps more detailed prefs?
26. yep.
27. this will be down to your audio settings. you can improve this lag but it will be dependant on the capabilities of your system.
28. i don't know why this feature doesn't work in logic. it is supposed to have ti already and i just don't understand why it doesn't. maybe it will be fixed in the next upgrade.
29. agreed.
30. ok - i have other work flows for this but it would be nice.
31. i don't agree that logic is a pain to score with to film, i do it nearly everyday. but you are discribing an interesting feature which might be worth discussing more. i think you might find yourself getting alarming and unmiscal results doing this that will end up having to be sorted out the conventional way. but its a good idea.
32. oh yes.
33. yeah - this could be improved.
34. ok, well i wouldn't go about it this way, but yeah there is generally sticky spots with regards to updating of information al around logic.
25. very very good idea.
26. there are lots of problems with the chase function. very annoying. i certainly agree with this.
in general, some of these could well be done as their own threads. some of the missing functionality may exist. if you can confirm a bug then you are on stronger ground when you submit feedback. but this list is full of fantastic ideas.

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