Problems Capturing with my Panasonic DVX100A

Good Day, (I have posted this problem in the past and have had little help)
I have a Panasonic DVX100A camera, a 500 gig-24 inch iMac (under a year old), and a Macbook Pro (almost 2 years old) Both computers have the Leopard OS.
Here's the problem: When I try to capture the footage from my Panasonic DVX100A onto FCE on my iMac, FCE says, "Unable to initialize video deck..." So I go to the easy set up function as I have read in previous threads.
In the FORMAT tab, I click, "DV/Panasonic DVCPRO" and continue on. As I try each setting under the USE tab, I get the same message saying:
"Unable to locate the following external devices: Apple Firewire NTSC (720 x 480)
Your system configuration may have been changed...."
I understand FCE cannot recognize my Panasonic Camera in any way, so I open iMovie 08 and try to capture my footage that way. Here's where it gets interesting - iMovie 08 on my iMac also doesn't recognize my Panasonic camera BUT iMovie 08 on my Macbook Pro does!
So what I've been doing for the past few months is capturing my footage in iMovie 08 on my Macbook Pro and transferring it via Firewire to my iMac - then importing it to FCE where I can edit the footage.
Does anyone know why my iMac will not recognize my Panasonic DVX100A in any program, yet my Macbook Pro does recognize it in iMovie 08?
and
Is there any advice as to what I can change/programs I can install/or anything I need to do for my iMac to start recognizing my camera so I don't need to do this ridiculous procedure every time I want to capture my footage and edit it with FCE?
Please help!

Tom,
Im not too sure what the exact media on the tapes are, or where to find that but what I do know is that I use many different brands of Mini DV such as Fuji Film, TDK and Maxell. I don't have the technical skills attached with years of filming but I do know that all of my settings on the camera are turned off - in regards to recording mode, my "DV OUT" on my camera is turned ON.
As for the presets in FCE, (the "EASY SET UP" option) I have tried them ALL and none of them seem to make any difference. And as for the firewire, the camera has a 4 pin firewire port and the iMac computer is a 6 pin. Im not too sure how much more info you want.
The problem is, my camera - with the firewire attached to the Macbook Pro, is recognized in iMovie 08 and has no problem transferring the data, even with the exact same preference settings on both computers - yet the iMac won't recognize it in iMovie 08. I don't have FCE on my laptop so I don't know if it would recognize it as well on my Macbook.
Another thing I should mention, is that I have an older JVC camcorder that records on the same DV tapes, and works perfectly well in FCE on my iMac. I attach the firewire and it's recognized and transfers the data perfectly. (I was told that you should record the footage, and playback the footage on a computer with the same device for best capturing results. So filming it on my DVX100A and playing it back in FCE on my JVC has been an option as well - but still a silly way to work with my gear.)
The variable here, to me, seems to be my iMac and its compatibility to the Panasonic camera. The JVC works on both computers but the Panasonic only works on the laptop. I have also searched other video forums for this kind of problem, but I have had no luck. People have told me it works great on their computers.
Does this help clarify my problem?
Thanks

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Hi,
Well I did some googling...and I would bet that the problem is the 50hz vs 60hz...
Unfortunately most if not all info I got that even BRUSHES on this subject with the sort of material you're dealing with is the opposite....where they are in 60cycle land with pal stuff....rather than in pal land dealing with 60hz ...
This is a lot of misc stuff but if you get a little bit of info from various posts and make some notes you might be able to get an idea how to solve the problem...
In particular I was looking at how frames are flagged and new frames are created later ...( toward very end of these posts - the last four or so )
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Steve Sherrick
03-03-2008, 11:14 AM
Hi chaps,
Can I just confirm that the SDI/HDMI outputs are only live in build 14? I'm on 13 and going SDI - HDLINK - DELL24" gives me nothing. I'm in PAL land so have tried switching between 50hz and 59hz in camera.
So do I need build 14 or is it something else?
Cheers
Jeff Brown
#708
I'm in NTSC land but that same setup gives me picture just fine. Which Dell model is it? Is everything set up right from the camera side?
Jeff Brown
03-04-2008, 12:42 PM
Hi Steve,
I believe so. Set to Preview in th viewfinder settings, plugged in on preview mini sdi, cam set to 50hz..
Anything I'm missing?
Cheers
To counter this, the AJ-HD1400 offers two modes specifically for this called '25(SD)' and '25(HD)'. They output the 25fps signal with new timecode on a 50Hz carrier (only over SDI/Analogue the Firewire doesn't work in that mode).
It only works with 25fps material too, any other 'offspeed' rate has to be dealt with separately with the deck operating in 59/60 mode.
When operating in either of these 25 modes, the deck generates new 25fps timecode from the tape (although our tests have indicated that it is frame accurate of multiple playback passes).
Basically, Varicam, while a very nice idea, has only ever been properly designed to work in a 60Hz environment. It is pretty much a nightmare in 50Hz environments.
I think I may have found the cause of the problem.
For some reason when I started my project it had a Device Control profile set to 720p50 (rather than the 1080i50 that the deck is operating in).
What this seems to have done is double the frame number on any clip it encountered. So if I took a clip with in marked at 01:02:40:22 and dropped it in the Log and Capture tool the In Point that FCP decided to look for was 01:02:40:44 (which isn't going to exist on a 25fps timecode obviously).
Since you are using Pal
Go :
Generic OHCI HD 50hz -> 960x720 25p over 60p
Because if I am right you can't do Pal over 60hz but you can do PAL over 60P at 50hz.
( but I could be wrong)
But the other problem is that you are using an ntsc profile to capture pal recorded footage.
50 hz 960x720 over 60P yields a frame rate of 25 progressive
60 hz 960x720 59.94p yields a frame rate of 59.94 progressive which is far from your original footage . Mostly used for countries using natively ntsc
Neither myself, nor Ricksta (I don't think) are using NTSC-rate profiles.
The Preset setting I've been testing with is:
Generic OHCI HD 50Hz 960x720 25p over 60p
Indeed, I've just tried what Rick mentioned, and with the deck in 59.94Hz operating frequency, I can capture with all three 720p 59/60 input settings. This is technically wrong however, as the tape has been recorded at 60Hz. But like I said before, until Rick hears from the big geeks at Panasonic about this, I don't know what the real outcome of that difference in frequency is.
I've also tried a 50p over 60p project setting (as 720p50 is what I will be editing with in Avid) - but, predictably, this works but gives me double-speed footage. Which, while amusing, isn't a lot of help for me
A large part of the problem I'm facing here is to do with the Varicam format. It will record any framerate from 1-60fps. It has to operate and a system-frequency of 59.94Hz or 60Hz. That is what Rick and I are referring to. The limitation I face is that the Varicam format is not widely supported for PAL-based rates (25/50) as it requires communication with a deck operating in an NTSC-based system frequency (either 60Hz or 59.94Hz). This difference (between project/timeline framerates, and deck operating frequencies) is enough to ensure that IEEE1394/Firewire/OHCI capture is not possible in these modes in Final Cut Pro, Avid (any version) or any other NLE I have found.
We realise that the framerate and frequency we're working in has to be 50-based, and we're not making any mistakes in that respect.
So far Edius is the only NLE on the market, that I have been able to find, that supports Firewire capture from 60Hz DVCPro HD material in a 50Hz based framerate.
When you have captured the file in that project select a clip in the bin press alt+enter go to video info and tell me what the framerate is .
In a 50p over 60p project, when I capture footage shot 25p over 60 with the 'Constant Rate' capture profile I get a clip in the bin that is 50fps, but that plays at doubletime - which is what I'd expect.
I can change the framerate in the properties to 50fps, and it plays at the correct rate, but I'm not happy with the way to refactors the timing in that mode. It seems to create interpolated frames to fill the gaps, which provide an unusual appearance that I don't really like.
At present if I capture into 25p over 60p project, then import the resulting 25p footage into Avid, Avid doubles up the frames to produce 50fps material.
Some clarification here. The Varicam does indeed record at a constant 60fps. If the frame rate is set to 25fps for example it simply flags the active frames. This flag is carried in the vertical interval data. The reason for this system, is as suggested, it is very difficult to vary the speed of tape in a helical scan recording system. With the advent of solid state recording that Panasonic introduced in the AG-HVX200 it is now possible of course to only record the active (native) frames and this would be called 25pn for example.
Originally with the Varicam you used to use a device called a Frame Rate Converter. This box contained a hard drive with HD-SDI I/O. It would recognize the active "flagged" frames in the incoming signal and buffer them through the hard drive and then play them out at the correct frame rate.
More recently NLE's such as Avid, FCP and Edius have incorporated this flagged frame recognition and perform the extraction automatically. Thus when I tested a 25fps Varicam ingest on a 25 Frame timeline I am getting realtime playback. If I had recorded at 50fps and I placed that on a 25 frame timeline I would have very smooth half speed. Also the newer DVCPRO HD decks such as the AJ-HD1700 and AJ-HD1400 have the ability to decode "on-speed" frame rates such as 30fps, 25fps and 24fps.
The issue that Dylan is facing is that the NLE's will not accept a firewire input at 60Hz, they only accept it at 59.94, this is a .001 frequency difference and should be negligible. The other alternative is to ingest via HD-SDI via a Black Magic or AJA Kona card etc. These boards also support the variable frame rate function.
I hope that this helps clear things up a little.
Rick Haywood
Manager Broadcast & Display Systems
Panasonic New Zealand Ltd.
Further to what Rick is saying... The issues with most NLEs for PAL users is the disparity between the 59.94/60Hz operating frequency of the deck and the 50Hz based framerates the applications are working with in PAL framerates.
As for the constant 60fps - it is indeed recording 60 images per second to a tape, but as I said before, only a certain number are unique - only the flagged frames. In 25fps, the camera samples the sensor 25 times a second and records that frame to tape. Essentially you get frame 1 recorded for 2 frames, frame 2 recorded for the next three frames, frame 3 recorded for 2 frames, etc... The first frame with each unique image is 'flagged'. To rebuild the recorded framerate, only the flagged images are captured.
The big bonus of Edius for me here is that it can capture the PAL framerates from the 59.94Hz deck over Firewire directly. Something that Avid and FCP are unable to do.

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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
/Roger
>

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