Prorez 422 vs DVCPro HD for capture

I am producing a television show and need to decide on a capture codec. Does it make a difference in capturing between Prorez 422 or DVCPro HD? I will be doing a lot of keying and intense colors as the show is for children. Also some CGI for backgrounds. I know you can convert the codec but is there an advantage in capturing in one or the other. I am shooting with Panasonic HVX200 output from the uncompressed HD component out.
Thanks,
David Perry

I like ProRes. It is nice, but you may find certain 10bit rendering errors with FCP that don't show up in 8bit CODECs. Alpha channels from still graphics seem to be the worse problems. Also some of the transparency modes don't really work right in 10bit. This isn't really the fault of the ProRes CODEC, but appears to be a problem with FCP 6 and all 10 color spaces.
If you don't plan many transparent graphics, ProRES is awesome and I would recommend you use if if you have an uncompressed feed coming from the camera.
I would only recommend ProRes if you have AJA Kona hardware. Only the top Kona cards seem to support it fully. My LHe card supports it but most io devices don't.
The color space of the ProRes is very very nice. I've pushed a scene from a Varicam (captured via SDI into the Kona) by about 3 stops recently and was able to recover it without anybody knowing. It was slightly more grainy, but still very usable. DVCPro would not have taken this kind of abuse.

Similar Messages

Should I use H.264 or Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) ?

After editing in FCP X, I am sharing through Master File to an external Hard Drive. It is only for playing in computer or in Sony T.V. I don't need the content back for editing. In settings, should I choose video codec as H.264 or Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) ? Thanks

Thanks for the repies.
(1) "Compressor is not required. You can use Streamclip, or you can export twice from FCP" - Tom Wolsky
Sorry, I didn't understand the meaning of "twice". Why twice, why not once?
(2) Is there any spelling check option while replying or typing questions in this Discussions?

Can I combine codec m2v1 with apple ProRes 422 (HQ) in same FCP X project?

Can I combine codec m2v1 with apple ProRes 422 (HQ) in same FCP X project?
Everything else is same. 29.97, fps, 1920 x1080, Linear PCM, 48kHz, mono, .mov
If not, could I add the logo animation after outputting to compressor using QuickTime 7?
I'm re-wrapping footage from Canon XF100, which is why m2v1. I like working this way to preserve original footage.
I just had my logo animated and designer matched everything except the m2v1. Providing ProRes 422 (HQ)
Thank you for your thoughts. I'd like to avoid changing my camera footage to Apple ProRes 422 (HQ).

Hi Mary,
I'm new to FCPX too!
When creating a new project, if you click on Use Custom Settingsand then ckick on the Custom checkbox in Video Properties, you can specifyexactly what you want!
If you need to change it after the project was craeted, I found that you can click and highlight on the project in the Project Library window, then go over to the "info" button . The Properties window will expand from the right side (above the "info" button . With Properties selected it will show you the present settings, if you need to change those settings, click on the icon of the WRENCH on the bottom of that dialog box (Properties). You can then change your settings.
Good luck, and happy cutting!
Jb (James)

Capture: DVCPRO HD 1080p30 vs Apple ProRes 422

We shot a project at 1080p30, 29.97 fps. I'm wondering if I should capture this footage using the DVCPRO HD 1080p30 setting or the Apple ProRes 422 setting. And why would you recommend using one or the other.
Thank you very much!

I called AJA and they can do it with an Intel Mac Pro 3ghz dual core.

HQ vs standard pro res 422 for capture Help!

This is my last question (I think).
Would standard printed out on hdsr essentially look the same in this situation that I shouldn't bother with the HQ?
A gentleman made a comment that I don't need HQ for capture but I am reading a lot of commentary on this.
My feature film has a lot of effects, it is prepared for conversion from a 10bit digibeta sd file that was rendered out from an sd file.
My end delivery is going to be cable broadcast and hdsr master, (though I know just for hdcam standard would be ok).
I read different comments on here and on the web...and some of it comments if your end goal is broadcast you should have an HQ file if it comes from a 10-bit source and as well that more compression will happen down the road and taking that into consideration, as I'll be doing another render, I'd like this verified.
And NOWHERE does it differentiate if that source is the file it's being converted from or the original footage it came from.
And I will be effecting this last capture pro res file before another render to a final QT.
I just want verification that standard will be ok as the individual who commented that it is I hadn't stated for sure what my delivery and end use would be and may have assumed I'd only be concerned with hdcam.
Thanks.

Nobody calls me a gentleman and gets away with it!
There are many resources to heop you decide on a ProRes codec appropriate for your task. However, youmust weigh the processing cost of inadequate hardware against the possibly indiscernible difference in the HUGE difference in file sizes and heavy lifting.
http://16x9cinema.com/blog/2009/7/31/sorting-out-the-apple-prores-family.html
ProRes 422 (HQ)
Visually lossless - highest-quality professional HD video that a (single-link) HD-SDI signal can carry.
Supports full-width, 4:2:2 video sources at 10-bit pixel depths, while retaining its visually lossless characteristic through many generations of decoding and re-encoding.
Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) can be used both as an intermediate codec to accelerate workflows for complex, compressed video sources and as an affordable, high-performance alternative to uncompressed 4:2:2 video.
Has some subsampling of chroma, but retains very high quality.
Supports 4:2:2 sources like DCVPRO HD, AVC-Intra,/100, XDCAM HD422/50.
Data rate about 220 Mbps.
ProRes 422
Visually lossless, full-width 10-bit, 4:2:2 at lower data rate than ProRes (HQ)
Offers better multi-stream RT editing performance. For most video applications, 422 is "good enough."
Data rate about 147 Mbps
The comparison in data density between HQ and vanilla 422 is 220/147.
If you have the chops to KNOW you need to maintain this kind of image integrity then you have the hardware to accommodate the chore. If you have the chops but not the rig, forget it, you can't afford the time. If you have the rig but not the knowledge, forget it, you can't realize the benefits. It's a pretty simple decision matrix and, while you will get some recommendations, you're the only one who can pull this trigger. It's going to cost you time or money or both.
Types of Apple ProRes Codecs
The Apple ProRes format comes in five versions: Apple ProRes 4444, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (LT), and Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy). The following list describes the features of each version. For a complete comparison of the relative data rates of the Apple ProRes codecs, see Apple ProRes Format Specifications.
Apple ProRes 4444
The Apple ProRes 4444 codec offers the utmost possible quality for 4:4:4 sources and for workflows involving alpha channels. It includes the following features:
Full-resolution, mastering-quality 4:4:4:4 RGBA color (an online-quality codec for editing and finishing 4:4:4 material, such as that originating from Sony HDCAM SR or digital cinema cameras such as RED ONE, Thomson Viper FilmStream, and Panavision Genesis cameras). The R, G, and B channels are lightly compressed, with an emphasis on being perceptually indistinguishable from the original material.
Lossless alpha channel with real-time playback
High-quality solution for storing and exchanging motion graphics and composites
For 4:4:4 sources, a data rate that is roughly 50 percent higher than the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
Direct encoding of, and decoding to, RGB pixel formats
Support for any resolution, including SD, HD, 2K, 4K, and other resolutions
A Gamma Correction setting in the codec’s advanced compression settings pane, which allows you to disable the 1.8 to 2.2 gamma adjustment that can occur if RGB material at 2.2 gamma is misinterpreted as 1.8. This setting is also available with the Apple ProRes 422 codec.
Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)The Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) codec offers the utmost possible quality for 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 sources (without an alpha channel) and provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 220 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422
Apple ProRes 422The Apple ProRes 422 codec provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 145 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
Apple ProRes 422 (LT)The Apple ProRes 422 (LT) codec provides the following:
Roughly 70 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (thus, smaller file sizes than Apple ProRes 422)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)
bogiesan

Capturing HDV Into ProRes 422 (LT) Via FireWire

I read this fine tutorial on Moviola on the technique of Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire.
http://moviola.com/hdv_prores
Since you can choose ProRes 422 (LT) as an option in the Log and Transfer window, I was wondering if there is a way to capture HDV to ProRes 422 (LT) via firewire like in the above mentioned article.
I tried creating a custom capture setting in the AV Settings, but ProRes 422 (LT) was not available as an option, only ProRes 422 and ProRes 422 (HQ). And those settings cannot be edited or duplicated (grayed out).
I don’t know why ProRes 422 (LT) is available in the Log and Transfer window but not in the AV Settings window. Maybe it will become available in an update.
In the meantime, does anyone know a way to get around this? Maybe modifying an FCP file somewhere?
Thanks,
======
Richard

HDV is recorded to tape inside of the camera as digital information. Component coming out of the camera is analog. The camera is performing the first conversion D/A, from HDV (digital) to component out (analog).
Component going into the ioHD is analog. The ioHD then converts via its hardware to Prores (any flavor), which is digital. The ioHD has to convert the analog from the component outs of my camera to digital for use in FCP. FCP only uses digital video.
You said "The IOHD internally converts to ProRes.." converts to ProRes is the second A/D conversion.
So the path is D/A/D. I count that as two conversions, camera D/A as one the ioHD A/D as two.
I don't want to unnecessarily convert from digital to analog to digital which is why I don't use the ioHD to convert from HDV to Prores (any flavor).
Unfortunately I don't have any digital outs for this camera, neither HDMI or HD SDI.
I believe capturing and converting HDV to ProRes via firewire in FCP doesn't have this D/A/D conversion which is why I'd like to be able to capture HDV to ProRes LT via firewire in FCP and stay digital all the way, with no analog conversions.
I use the ioHD for all of my analog to digital conversions. It's a great box from a great company.
Thanks,
=====
Richard

3 hours to capture/transcode 40 minutes AVCHD- ProRes 422

hey all...
just testing a new core i5 imac (4 gigs ram) - capturing 40 minutes of avchd footage (from nxcam) using log and transfer. transcoding to ProRes 422 and it's literally 3 HOURS to capture this 40 minute clip.
for this test i'm transferring directly from an sd card to the root drive on the imac.
does this sound right to you? looks like i'm currently packing up the imac and driving it back to the store for a mac pro tower. i thought the imacs would be fast enough but geez - what's the bottle neck here?
what's your experience with this kind of log and transfer?
karl

Yup...that's an issue with the new AVCHD format that the NXCAM camera employs. Clips under 10-15 min, transfer in near real time. Go over 20 min...BOOOM, it takes HOURS. 30 min typically took me 5 hours. NOT GOOD.
http://lfhd.net/2010/04/05/avchd-the-pilot-job/
The solution is third party software. www.clipwrap.com. $50, and now works with the NXCAM footage. I worked with the developer to help solve this issue. The new version of the software now does great. And is tons faster with the smaller clips too.
Shane

Capturing in the HDV-Apple ProRes 422 Preset

I am trying to capture some HDV footage in Final Cut 7 using the HDV-Apple ProRes 422 preset. However, when I go to log and capture after changing the audio/visual settings, the program immediately asks me to enter a file name and then jumps right into a capture now rather than bringing up the usual log and capture screen.
Has anyone else run into this problem, and if so, have any solutions to fixing it? This is the first time I have used this capture preset, so there may be a step or setting I am accidently skipping.
Thanks in advance.

If you are capturing HDV as ProRes, this is normal. This is the only case that this happens like this. Only with a capture card can you get the normal Log and Capture window. Converting one format to another via firewire...typically requires a card. This is a special case.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/poisson_chris/hdv-prores.php
Shane

I am new to FCP. I have a canon 60d camera and purchased fcpX. I was recommended to download mgep streamline and convert my files to prores422. I do not have an option for prores 422 in my download. How can I fix the problem.

I am new to FCP. I have a canon 60d camera and purchased fcpX. I was recommended to download mgep streamline and convert my files to prores422. I do not have an option for prores 422 in my download. How can I fix the problem.Please help. There was another suggestion by vimeo.com to use applexdcam ex 1080p30. I do not have that either in my mpeg download.

For future reference, you will most likely get more knowledgeable answers if you post in the FCP forum where the folks who use the product regularly hang out:
https://discussions.apple.com/community/professional_applications/final_cut_pro_ x

Your Recommedations For Capturing With HDV To DVCPro HD

Hi All,
I am about to start a new wedding project and I am using my LHe Kona for the first time to capture for output to a dvd. I want to know your best settings for capturing with LHe in FCP with my Z1 Sony? I will be capturing in 1080i and I would like to know which DVCPRO HD format to use with the best DVD end result. I have a totally new Caldigit Duo 500 GB raid as a scratch disk the can capture up to 140 mbs as most of you already know. Your help would be appreciated

If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to choose the Kona LH's "easy setup" for capturing DVCPROHD with the frame rate you've shot... then make HD or SD DVD's from the resulting sequence... Might have to change your device control to firewire, but it should work just fine.
Jerry

Hi, how to transform a video file from Mark 5D iii into MVI_2500-Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material.mov

Hi, how to transform a video file from Mark 5D iii into MVI_2500-Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material.mov ?
Is it the best way to work with videos in Final Cut Pro?
Thank you!
Anastasia

Is your 5D media progressive from the camera? Simply use the optimize option when you import into FCP.

Export settings for tv, flickery with prores 422

Hi!
I`ve done some testing on my Movie. Its shot on DV (720/576)
I tried to share to masterfile, and I picked prores 422. I Connected my mac to tv, via hdmi cable, and played it in QT. The quality was crap - flickery.
Then I did redid it, but I picked DV instead of prores; I Connected to my mac, cia hdmi cable, and played it in QT - Ok result..
So, as I understand the prores will show both Fields (interlaced) when showed in QT. DV will just display one Field, and thats why I dont have flickery crappy result from this option.
SO MY QUESTION:
What do I do to get best result, when showing a Movie from my mac, via hdmi cable to my tv? Should I use another player than QT? Should I do anything to my prosject settings? Should I do something With the masterfile, to prepare it for tv screening? Hope you can help.
S

Actually, Pro Res can be interlaced or progressive. It's an editing codec and probably not the best choice for playback. A more efficient format would be h,264 mp4.(or mov). Share> Master file and select Computer for format, H.264 for video codec.
Russ

Why doesn't iMovie use ProRes 422 or native instead of AIC

Does anybody know why apple still uses AIC to transcode all captured video streams instead of ProRes 422? And why does it transcode in the first place? Why can't they use the native HDV or AVCHD streams?
I know that using native HDV, and especially AVCHD, loads the processor with all the decoding, but it should at least be an option for high-end machines. HDV editing on FCP works fine and the storage requirements go down to between 1/3 and 1/8 of what it is with AIC and ProRes.
I think the ideal workflow would be to capture in the native format, edit in the native format when no re-compression is necessary and only render to ProRes when effects/titles/filters are applied.
Is it just too much development work or is there an architectural consideration from the development group to force everything through AIC for some reason?
Is it a licensing issue? Does Apple pay royalties for ProRes for every FCP sale? Would it be prohibitively expensive to distribute ProRes with iLife?
Obviously only someone from the iMovie group would be able to answer all of these questions but we may be able to gather some insights from the community to get a better picture.

I understand that the iMovie and FCP teams at Apple have been, hitherto, completely independent.
FCP was bought in - under a different original name - and tweaked from its original incarnation before being offered as 'Final Cut Pro' by Apple. See the section marked "History" in this Wikipedia article.
iMovie, however, was written long ago to Steve Jobs' specifications by Glenn Reid as a simple video editor for amateurs.
The ProRes codec appears to have been created separately from the Apple Intermediate Codec of iMovie ..probably because of different programmers' responsibilities for the separate programs ..although, under the 'Terms of Use', we're not supposed to speculate here in Apple Discussions.
HDV and AVCHD, being extremely 'compressed' methods of storing video, similar to the MPEG-2 format used for squeezing long movies onto small DVDs, cannot be edited 'frame-accurately' directly, as most of the video frames rely on data stored in other frames for their content. In other words, the 1st frame of fifteen frames contains a whole frame's worth of data, but the next 14 contain only differences between the first frame of a group and the subsequent frames.
So there needs to be a method to 'unscramble' or extract the data from the next few frames after the first of each group, in order to reconstitute the rest of the frames for editing them.
AIC is the method used in iMovie. ProRes is the method chosen for FCP.
It's interesting, though, that Randy Ubillos, now 'Chief Architect - Video Applications' at Apple, and the "onlie true begetter" of what later became Final Cut Pro, was the man who demonstrated iMovie '09 at last month's MacWorld Keynote. So if Randy's on hand to explain how to use iMovie, and created the new-style iMovie, then maybe we'll see some more convergence occur. (..iMovie has already taken on board FCP's "instant rendering", so that we no longer have to wait for transitions to be rendered within iMovie, but can see the results immediately. iMovie's real "behind the scenes" rendering now takes place during export, after after editing's finished..)

Problems editing ProRes 422 in FCPX– ? Frame rate issue?

I cannot edit video I import into FCPX except by using the Proxy media option in preferences.
I'm recording video from my HCX920 camcorder to Apple ProRes 422 format with Wirecast as the recording app during simultaneous live broadcasting.
The Wirecast encoding settings are set at: ProRes 422; 1920x1080; 29.97 fps for video and the audio is encoded as 24-bit integer; 48kHZ; 16-bit sample rate.
The video feed from the camera is 1080i at 59.94 fps.
The raw video file is identified as "Apple ProRes 422, Linear PCM" in Get Info. In QT 7 the FPS is listed as "29.81" Playing fps with the movie playing ranges from 28-30fps.
After I've imported the video to FCPX the "Project Properties" shows the video to be "1920x1080 | 59.94p". It seems that FCPX is importing the video recorded at 29.97 as if it were recorded at 59.97fps. Is FCPX transcoding my video to a higher frame rate?
I am unable to play the movie once it is placed into the timeline. It immediately stutters and shows the dropped frame warning. I am running FCPX on a Quad-Core Mac Pro with 20GB of RAM. The only way I can play the clip is by creating proxy media and choosing this in preferences.
What am I doing wrong? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
John

Kevin,
No, I was never able to get this problem worked out. It caused me to pull my hair out. When I compared the video quality of the ProRes output from Wirecast with the video recorded in AVHCD format on my camera's SDHC card the difference was dramatic. So I've stopped simultaneous ProRes recording in Wirecast and I now import the AVHCD material into FCPX from my camcorder's card.
I do, however, record the audio from my Wirecast broadcast and synch it with the video from the camera. The audio captured by the camera's built in mechanism is abysmally poor. This causes me more work but the final output is far superior to what I was getting from my Wirecast recordings regardless of format.
I wish I could help or offer more encouragement.
John

Browser showing Compressor as Apple ProRes 422.

I am working with HD clips from a Canon using AVCHD codec so I am wondering why my Browser, Compressor column shows Apple ProRes 422. Keep trying to find something in the manual or online video tutorial but no luck. Does this have something to do with how the Setup was handled and should some settings be changed?

I wish I could answer your question but I sort of don't understand it. When I open my Log and Transfer window there is no option I can find to select preferences on Transferring. I don't see anything like this in my User Preferences, System Settings, Easy Setup, (this is the only place I can find the Apple ProRes 422 codec) Audio/Video Settings window - Sequence Presets and Capture Presets.
Could it be I had selected the ProRes 422 in Capture Presets at one time because in the Summary window of Capture Presets states "Use this preset to capture from an HDV device and transcode to Apple ProRes 422." and FCP remembers this every time it deals with this HD information?
Thank you very much for your help. I have been using FCP ever since V1 came out but even with a three day class and video tutorials I get really lost sometimes.

Prorez 422 vs DVCPro HD for capture

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