Raid 0 Stripe 16k, on SATA 3+4 or 1+2?

Ok, im about to reinstall everything as soon as my Videocard comes off the Fedex truck. I had my Raptor at raid 0 and at 64k stripe and HDtach was all over the place. I seen highscores with 16k stripe so going to go that route. Now i always had my Raptors SATA on connectors 1+2 (LOL, as i write this my card comes to the door) anyways, but people say to use 3+4 for better overclock, is this true?

Quote
I seen highscores with 16k stripe so going to go that route.
Are there any difinitive settings that are better for the raptors and why..?

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I would like to check that RS480M2 support raid 1 for all 4 SATA hard drive or not? The configuration would be SATA1-SATA2 as first set of mirror drive and SATA3-SATA4 as second set of mirror drive. Is this motherboard support this kind of configuration that I need? (2 Sets of mirrors)

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Raid 0 (Stripe) for OS X boot disk? Best Performance and block size

Hi,
so this is a new thread to an older question I had and would like some feedback on;
I have a new Mac Pro with 4 matched 1TB caviar black drives. I WILL be doing Full Time-Machine Backups, as well as an independant full-system backup regularly.
That being said, I have 4 drives open and am looking for suggestions. I am leaning toward 2 sets or stripes (one for the OS and one for 'work space', the former with a 32k stripe block size, the latter with 64k (will hold video, audio, scratch, and, yes, Games).
Does this sound alright? Is there an issue with Striping the boot drive? Is the block size or 32 (or 64) optimal?
Thanks!
Dan

Hi D# Shooter, regarding your question,
D3 Shooter wrote:
You brought to mind something I did not take into consideration, Time Machine. I really like the simplicity of TM as it saved me once before. So, could you tell me, for photo files, some video, how much does the striping (% wise) improve the accessing and filing of such files compared to no striping but, using internal drives (7200/WD/1TB/Caviar)? I have not done striping before and want to weigh in because of the back up storage issues now. Thanks.
J_ust give it a try and see if it is worth it for you_.
Striping:
• just enhances (reduces the access/transfer) because in practice the access is distributed in parallel across several DDM's (Old school but it works great!). I think for video and file work the advantage is that you can access the whole object sooner (rather than faster).
• this distribuition also reduces a load of old style queing on the device ove rthe path. THis was resolved in the late 1980's so no reall rocket science here.
the issues with striping are few and basically over all the raid implementations (except JBOD which of course is not raid) when compared to a single spindle. The discussions are enormous and plentiful via google and experiences and opinions vary widely.
Fir the I.T. peole its the advantage they get for access using a smart disk controller that caches goosies like indexes and stuff so that they can sustain a zillion trivial transactions/sec (i.e. banking & internet stuff).. stuff that is of no interest to me
For the creative people and many applications that are BLOB's (like video, film and remote sensing objects) getting use of the objects sooner (not faster) is of prime importance for workflow efficiencies. If you have this need then striping stiff across disks is for you!
TIMEMACHINE.app works fine as it seems fairly agnostic to whats implemented under the disk file system. MY issue with time machine is that I don't want it looking after my production stuff, only to keep an eye on my admin I.T. type stuff such as ~/ and data data files.
As posted on ths thread:
• availability is the major concern with any file system (cloud or raid or other). RAID with parity schemes and double parity schemes (Raid1,,3,5,6) and implementations such as RAID6+ LSF (log structured file) are all wonderful for this business workflows that need it.
• timely access in a workflow is another
• cost benefits are another
However a *great benefit* for me of *consolidating small storage components under one huge file system is that you dont have to COPY any thing around*. THis is marvelous especially when you think you have to move 2TB's of stuff from one place to anther. THis a takes a lot of time with elcheapo didks that dont have fast interfaces such as SATA/SAS of FC for example.
As always and has been addressed by others on this thread (Hatter) if you lose a component storage device the whole file system is hosed or severely degraded unless you spend a lot of money on full ranks of DDMs with hot spares and a very good RAID controller card. Again its money.
YEah sure you can carry some PARITY RAID implementation around across 3 didks but the storage capacity usage is dreadful. THis is why more complex RAID implemntatiosn are in groups of 10+ dDMs.. (yep poepl can argue.. but this is the mainstream).
My external disk arrays are merely two LUNs (SAS DOMAINSA) that have two file systems implemented using 2 x 4TB 1TBs DDMS - all RAID0 - no parity (no availability) - I just want speed. I look after my own "availability" withm= my archive solution. If the operation dies, I stat again. I'm happy wi that. RAID 5 has write penalty performace hits (well known +update in place+), , RAID 6+ is lousy for huge objects but good for I.T. but ok if you lose two disks in a stripe (RANK).
They all have their flaws... and mirroring a RAID0 (RAID1/0) seems to be popular with storage vendors because they can see you more disk and thats proper business workflow depends on it.
However you can achieve this stuff if you change your workflow slightly.
Other than these the rest is tech specs and stuff under the cover.
So you what is right for you and your business.
I dont like spending money on nasty elcheapo FW800 LeCIE disk enclosures with the their junky components and their ilk having been done badly on several corrupted devices and lsing TB;s of content - this is why I invested in a high speed LTO4 ULtrium data tape archive solution.
sorry for long post..
w

Raid 0 (stripe) double space?

I've a MSI K7N2 Delta-ILSR and 2 HD Maxtor 80 Gb SATA in RAID 0.
All datas, included hidden and system files, take 3.3 Gb of Hard Disk space, but when i check the occupied space (right click on HD than proprieties) it says me 6.6!! Why? What's wrong?

it also depends on the size of your stripes.
If your system is mainly composed of small files and you have 64kB strippes, then each and every one of thoses are taking 64k (yes, even the 1byte files).
Easy way to verify:
- in RAID 0, you'll have ~160GB of space on the disk, 80GB in RAID1
- select all your files in your drive and do a properties. It will show you the number of files, total size and size on the drive.
It could also be that you have a trash protector like norton that keeps your files from getting deleted, so it counts in the used space, but does not appear...

2-Drive Raid 0 on Apple Internal SATA bootable?

This has sort of been answered in these forums but I want to be sure:
If I add an extra 160GB drive, identical to the 160 that shipped with my 2004 Dual 2ghz G5, can I Raid-0 them together using Disk Utility and be able to have this raid volume as the startup disk?
I want the extra read/write speed a raid-o will give me to maybe capture, but definitely playback 1:1 uncompressed Avid video media. I need about 45MB/s sustained. Performance tests I did on the single 160 SATA already installed gives me around 43MB/s sustained.
2ghz Dual G5 Mac OS X (10.4.3) 2gb ram

3 more questions:
1. Is a Raid-O configuration more prone to harddrive
failure than just a single drive on it's own?
Yes
2. Do I have to buy the same model/brand drive as the
one I already have, or I can I get a different brand
with the same specs/size?
You do not have to have the same model or brand. But you should understand that using drives that are not matched pairs will cause the stripe RAID set to perform slower. Typically using different brands will cause the RAID to perform at the slowest rate of performance for each drive. Hooking up a fast drive with a slower drive will usually result in worse performance than if you had two matched slow drives.
3. The current drive installed is a 160GB Seagate
Baracuda SATA 1.5Gb/s. The same size/brand, except
SATA 3.0Gb/s I find more in stock and available
online. Anyone know if there are issues with Raiding
the SATA-150 w/SATA-300?
You can easily RAID SATA I and SATA II drives. I do it all the time. However, in some cases the results will be slower. Usually mixing brands provides worse performance than mixing SATA I and SATA II models of the same brand and size.
Frankly - I think you would be better off getting a single Maxtor Maxline III 7V300F0 300GB Serial ATA 3Gb 7200RPM Hard Drive for $123.75 here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100719-9
This drive will boot faster than a 160GB mixed RAID and comes with a 5 year warranty. I have used a dual striped RAID set for booting and find it is noisier and does not provide any real performance boost except when copying data. Booting with a RAID is not faster - usually it is a little slower. Launching apps are not faster either. If I want a fast RAID for copying I hook up a 4-6 drive SATA RAID using a FirmTek bootable card like the SeriTek/1eVE4 Host Adapter. You can see more on it here:
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/firmtek/1eve4/
I find a single fast boot drive performs just as well as a bootable RAID at all things other than copying data. In fact, two drives can actually work faster when not RAIDed. For detailed tests on this issue see:
http://www.barefeats.com/hard63.html
RAID PAIR or INDEPENDENT DRIVES?
"Based on the mixed gains of the RAID pairs over single drives, I hypothesized that there are more avantages to having two independent drives as opposed to a bootable RAID 0 pair. Why? Because things don't happen in sequence. Your normal work flow causes storage events to happen in parallel."
I agree with barefeats on this. If you copy data to your drive most of the day a RAID is great but otherwise there is very little REAL performance gain unless you like to look at Xbench all day
Have fun,
Michael

K7N2G-ILSR (MS6570G) Promise RAID Driver trouble with 1TB SATA-II HDD XP SP2

Hi, I'm having trouble getting XP to recognise my new HDD.
I am using a MSI K7N2G-ILSR. I already have a 40GB IDE drive I use for the OS and apps, and an 80GB drive I use for storage. I recently bought a new 1TB Samsung SATA-II drive to increase the storage.
To begin with I simply plugged it in (port on the mobo marked SER1) and hoped XP would auto detect it. No such luck, so I used a USB to SATA convertor to connect the drive, format it, and check it worked properly. All OK, but still no result from windows when I go to the disk management settings.
So I got out the mobo manual and followed the instructions for installing the Promise 376 SATA RAID drivers. I setup the array in fastbuild (auto setup to a single stripe 1+0 array) and it shows the drive as present and functioning. I put in the XP CD and F6'd the SCSI drivers on as directed by various google searches. That went fine but there is still no detection in XP.
The drive came with jumper pins but no jumpers. I am slightly confused as I have read the jumpers can be used to force 150 speed from the drive, but also that SATA-II is 100% backwards compatible and doesn't need jumpers whether it's host is SATA or SATA-II.
I have read through various threads in this forum and have not been able to find a solution. The drive works fine, the RAID bios seems to work fine, but I can't achieve a detection by XP (with SP2).
Hope somebody can help me master this! If I've forgotten any details just ask.

Quote from: blardyblah on 08-November-08, 05:31:23
Cool, thanks. It wouldn't let me install the exe, was I supposed to change to extension to .inf? Anyway, it did let me install the Promise driver from the floppy, and that now shows properly in the device manager.
I will reboot and report back.
"Cool, thanks. It wouldn't let me install the exe, was I supposed to change to extension to .inf?"
No, just run it 1st. Its self extract archive which will expand the drivers to desired location.
"Anyway, it did let me install the Promise driver from the floppy, and that now shows properly in the device manager."
Yes, that's the same drivers.
"I will reboot and report back."
kk

Raid-0 Stripe & Cluster Size

I just ordered 2 10k RPM Raptor S-ATA Drives from newegg, they should arrive shortly. I plan to configure my system with them as Raid-0 for increased performance, I just read the "Raid Setup Guide 865/875 LSR/FIS2R Rev 1.01" by Vango and it seems that my Mobo can be configured as Raid-0 with either the Intel ICH5R Controller or the promise controller.
Will use promise as my raid controller, it seems it's faster , now i got another question.
What about stripe size/cluster size? my research is giving me too many setting suggestions with all very different settings, can't decide on what to do. Can someone suggest some good setting, Intel raid manual suggest a 128 KB stripe for best performance, and said nothing about cluster size. Vango posted somewhere he used a 64kb for Stripe, but no info on cluster size.
I will be using 2 36 gb WB Raptors in raid-0 as my main and only windows array (disk) (Will install windows and apps+games to it) then use PATA drive for backups and movie storage. My computer is used mostly for working with office, creation of web pages, playing Everquest (big game), and watching video (divx movies). I use WinXP Pro Sp1.
Can someone suggest some general setting on stripe/cluster size that give good performance this kind of usage? what is the easiest (best) way to change the 4k default cluster size on the array after i get windows installed to it? do I bother with changing the cluster size? I got partition magic and other softtware available to do this, but dunno what's the best procedure to do this.
Thanks in Advance

I've always just used the 4K cluster size that Windows creates if you use NTFS. I honestly don't think this makes a big difference. If you want a different size, use PM to format the drive that way before installing XP. I would recommend against converting from one size to another. Did this once and ended up with all my files labeled in DOS 8.3 format. (this was NOT good for my 1000+ MP3's)
I use 64k stripe size as a compromise. My research showed that people were getting the "best scores" using a small stripe size. This seemed to come at the cost of CPU usage going up and I'm unconvinced these scores relate much to how I actually use my HDD's. They say if all your files are 128K and bigger you don't need a smaller stripe size. If you're using the Raid as your XP drive you'll actually have lots of small files so I would recommend something smaller than 128K. Maybe try 32k?
Let us know how it goes.

Adding Drives to an Existing RAID 0 Stripe Set

I have 4 HDDs (250x1 and 320x3). While the OS is installed on the 250gb disk the rest of the three disks are striped.
I want to share files that are on my RAID Set. As OSX supports sharing of files only in the HOME directory, I now want to reinstall OSX on my stripe set.
My questions!?
1. Can OSX be installed on a striped set?
2. Can a fresh (identical) HDD be added to an existing RAID 0 set (configured using the Disk Utility)?
3. Is it possible to install OSX 10.4.x Tiger on a MAC Pro with 4 HDDs all configured as RAID 0 OR as RAID 1 (2HDDs) / RAID 0 (2 HDDs) Combination?
4. Can the default Home Directory location be changed to another volume, other than the startup volume?
Thanks in advance!

1) Yes.
2) Yes although the data on the current RAID set will be deleted.
3) Yes.
4) Yes.

Multiple lun's per RAID, double stripping?

Hi
We have a scenario where we only have 1 set of physical disks available to our RAC cluster( I think its RAID 1+0 or 5+0.. the RAID is mirrored... ). I would like to know if creating multiple luns for +DATA disk group ( all luns are coming from the same set of physical disks) causes I/O problems?
Will creating multiple lun’s introduce unnecessary I/O overhead? Any other reasons why we shouldn’t have multiple lun’s?
what is double stripping?
Thanks
A

some of those threads are suggesting not to create more than one lun per diskgroup on the same disk or set of disks( RAID).
ASM double stripping
Re: Recommended Number LUNs for ASM Diskgroup
Re: Is it safe to increase LUN size of ASM disk online 11gR2 ?
http://kr.forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=884912
Re: ASM diskgroups and RAID
Again, it depends on how that RAID-10 is being presented to you by the storage admins. The 5x600GB LUNs could be carved out of 5 different RAID-10 arrays, which would increase the total number of spindles behind your diskgroup and therefore improve performance (assuming no other contention). Or, they may have carved all 5 LUNs out of a single dedicated array, which can still provide benefit, assuming the array has more than 10 disks. Or, even if the array only has 10 disks, it may be more cost effective for the storage admin due to a lower number of hot spares required to support a single array vs. multiple arrays (which doesn't benefit you - and this is where a potential performance different due to the double-striping vs. RAID-1 comes in). There are many variables that come into play.
Thanks

RAID 0, Stripe, on XServe G5 Boot Volume

Hello ~
I have a client that has a G5 Xserve with three identical 500 GB hard drives. Right now it's configured as three independent physical drives, one has the OS, the other two are empty. I'd like to stripe the three drives. Can I stripe the full 500 GB's of the three drives without reinstalling and configuring the OS? Also, will the OS run from a software RAID (stripe)?
Thanks,
Chuck
PB Ti 1GHz - The last of it's kind Mac OS X (10.4.8) et al

Hi
Think carefully before doing this as you will not leave yourself a safety net if one of the drives in the RAID set fails. If you have 4x500GB drives consider stiping 2x500GB drives which will give you 1TB (RAID set 1), stripe the other two which will give you 1TB (RAID set 2) and mirror the first two with the second two. You wont get 2TB, you will only get 1TB but if any of the drives in the first RAID set fail, you will have redundancy in the second RAID set providing you with a safety net whilst you sort out the problems with the first RAID set. It can be tempting to JBOD all 4 drives to give you a massive 2TB but think of your disappointment as well as major data loss if one of your drives failed especially as you could have provided yourself with a safety net when first creating the RAID set.
HTH

Backing up a RAID-0 (stripped) to Time Machine

I am trying to backup my bootable RAID-0 with Time Machine.
The RAID consists of 2 disk with 250GB each, building a 500GB volume, filles with about 300GB of data.
When I try to backup, Time Machine complains with an error that the backup-disk (500GB) is too small and the backup would take more than 650GB?!
Has anybody had any luck with backup up such a configuration?

the only reason to use two more 4tb hdd's would be to run raid 10, which is used to make a copy of the raid that can take over if one of the other drives fails, with no down time. you would have to verify your computer or raid card can do that. you could just backup the raid 0 to another hdd, such as an external hdd for backup. either manually copy files over to the external hdd, use a backup program, or file sync program that will only copy over any new files. you can make a backup anytime you get new media and then unplug the external hdd so it doesn't accidentally get deleted etc. then make copies of the project files from the raid0 hdd onto another internal hdd and/or thumb drive for backup as you work. that's just one way of doing things. depending how full your raid 0 is, you might get away with a 4 or 5 tb hdd for backup, and also depending on how long you want to store old projects, you could have several hdds to hold onto old projects for a while...

SATA RAID problem on K8N Neo2 Platinum (nForce3 ultra) & winXP x64

I entered on MSI driver dowload page, put my model, and i found out that the RAID driver for win x64 wasn't released (nforce3 ultra), but in the same page was the driver for the nforce4, so I supposed it was compatible. I made the driver disk. press F6 and he askme for the drivers, ok, i introduce BOTH drivers, he detects perefctly the SATA RAID (stripping) format the disk, copy the files and ask me for some .CATof teh raid driver that wasn't on the zip file.... omit files, reboots, completes the instalation, but on the first boot of win x64 when it's just about to show the windows screen, a bue windows, and resets the pc so fast that's unreadable. fail safe start.. same crash.
I Installed win on an IDE and it run prefectly... In th other hand... without installing any driver the windows instalation recognices the SATA drives, but not the RAID. Maybe I just got to install the raid driver but not the SATA driver... the nforce3 driver form nvidia.com is pretty old... The real funny is that when i installed winXp x64 BETA i hadn' any problem... (winXP 64 doesn't admit the 32 bit driver=
Which driver i'm supposed to install? to INSTALL winxp64 on a SATA RAID and make it boot from there?
Thaks a lot

HI! i'm the one wih the raid problem on a k8n neo2....
That's what a i Did.. i unpacked the exe and copy the files in a floppy... question is: if i do that, windows instaler askme for some files that aren't in the .exe, anway it reconices the raid and everithing goes fine until the first BOOT on windos... it shows a blue screen, butremoves it so fast that i cant read it or pause the system. But i know it's a raid problem because if i install it on a ide disk it works.
The nforce3 drivers are almost a year old, and i'm not sure if nforce4 is compatible...
I think the're compatible because if you enter in msi driver download page and select my model, they put the Nforce3 and nforce4 for win64 and my model is only nforce3. The thing is they havent released the nforce3 for WIN 64.... So.. It's normal that win asks me for some files that ain't in the .zip file (i extracted the files o course) and Which driver should i put the Nvidia one year old nforce3 or the new nforce4. (the nforce3 for 32 bits is rejected by windows) or... i have to wait the new nforce3?
thanks for helps

Need Help With Large SATA Stripe & 1.3/1.9 Bios please

I recently changed my 2X 75GB 10.000RPM WD Rapters for 2X 300GB 7200RPM WD regular SATA HD's and flashed from 1.3 bios to 1.9 bios.
I created a RAID 0 stripe in the RAID bios and proceeded to install XP. However, after formatting the striped drives and reeboting, I get an error message. Basically the array is not sticking. In addition, I noticed that the 2 drives are on the same channel (0) instead of (0+1) if that makes sense? I flashed back to 1.3 bios and everything went through fisrt time.
I also noticed that my machine is MUCH slower using the 2 300GB HD's. For example... when right clicking on a download link, the explorer file/folder box takes ages to pop up? Before it was instantanious. I'm sure the new 7200RPM HD's are not that much slower? The machine seems to pause quite a lot, especially when maximising windows etc.
I would also like to update my bios again, now that I'm up and running again. However, there are several new options in the 1.9 bios that I have not seen before. Would someone be able to point me in the direction of an up-to-date bios guide? Also, will a bios flash cure my problems?
Also do I really need to upgrade my bios from 1.3 to whatever? I have been really happy with 1.3 for over a year, however, my K8N Neo Plat 2 does not seem to like my new large SATA drives on RAID 0 for some reason.

Bump

How to Setup RAID 0 on K9A2 Platinum using SATA 5&6 Promise Controller

Setup:
MSI K9A2 Platinum
2 x Sapphire 3870 HD in Crossfire Mode
2 x 500 GB WD Caviar Hard drives ( I want to put these in RAID 0)
Pioneer 115DBK DVD Burner
LITEON BD/DVD Player SATA
Phenom 9850
GSKILL 4 GB 1066
Antec P182 Case
Rosewill 850 W Power Supply
Windows Vista 64 bit
I am trying to set the RAID up on the PROMISE SATA ports 5&6. I have enabled the additional RAID controller in the BIOS and set the SATA controller to RAID. One drive shows up as JBOD and I can set the other to RAID 0 in the Fast Track utility. What do I need to do to change the JBOD to RAID? I'm sure its showing that I am a newbie at this and first RAID attempt. It's a new setup so I don't mind having to re-load VISTA.
Additionally - I cannot get the IDE DVD burner to work. If there is any obvious fix for this I'd appreciate input. The SATA BD Player works just fine.
Thanks for any advice!

Sorry, my explanation seems to be too short... some remarks:
- Yes, you need to go to the Promnise Setup prgram like you say;
- Yes, you have to delete the JBOD-array, but you also need to delete the RAID-0 array. Both drives become available now to setup RAID.
- Make a new striping (0) array and select both drives to use -> make array and reboot.
- go into bios and select the RAID-0 array as second boot device and your DVD/CD as first boot device (for now);
- reboot and boot off the Vista Setup CD/DVD.
- Wait until Vista asks to select the drive to install to. It will show you the RAID-array or it will show you nothing. If it shows you noting (and I bet it won't ), then choose to manually install a driver. Now, you can select the Promise driver to use. Vista will load it and recognize your RAID array. Select the array and tell Vista to install.
- Now start hoping that it will work out!
Good luck!!

Raid 0 Stripe 16k, on SATA 3+4 or 1+2?

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