RAW+JPEG with unsupported RAW

I'm now using a Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 (and really liking it), whose RAW files aren't yet supported by Aperture. I figured out that Aperture silently imports the JPEGs with the RAWs (camera shoots RAW+JPEG), and also how to make a version from the JPEG master.
Is there any way to re-associate a JPEG master with a RAW master inside a project? I accidentally deleted a JPEG master. I could pull it out of the trash and reimport it, but then it was not considered associated with the RAW master. I ended up deleting both masters and reimporting to reconnect the masters.
The other question is there any way to edit externally the RAW file? Aperture's external editing feature seems to only export as TIFF or PSD, but my camera came with Silkypix which is a very capable (but odd) RAW editor. If I import the RAWs into Aperture I don't see any way to use Silkypix as an editor. Any ideas, or does it just make more sense not to put the RAWs into Aperture as long as I have to use Silkypix? RAW shooting is a new thing for me.
PowerBook 15" 1.5GHz Mac OS X (10.4.8)

That seems a lot of effort, so can you not edit the
RAW's before importing to Aperture and then use
Aperture for image management, fine tuning, selects
etc.?
Exactly the course I've decided to take until Aperture supports my camera's RAW. After some photo comparisons I've decided to shoot RAW and ignore the camera's JPEG, develop to 16-bit TIFF with Silkypix and then import the TIFFs into Aperture. It takes a bit of processing time up front, but the quality is worth it.
I've put together a side-by-side comparison of the camera's JPEG and the JPEG I export from Aperture after going through the RAW-to-TIFF conversion. The quality difference is quite noticeable.
See the comparison picture at http://www.puppethead.com/misc/lumix_l1-compare.jpg
PowerBook 15" 1.5GHz Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Similar Messages

RAW+JPEG over just RAW

hi guys. im an amateur photographer and have been shooting in JPEG, but the more i get into the hobby, the more i think i should start shooting in NEF RAW. i have a D80 and was looking for some clarification on the advantages of shooting RAW+JPEG over just RAW. the books all say its an option, but never really go into why you need the JPEG on top of the RAW image. any feedback would be great.
j

Everyone can have their own reasons for RAW+JPEG.
Here's one:
Your in camera settings can have sharpening, contrast and small/medium JPEG set. After a shoot, you can quickly send off your jpegs to friends, clients, web page, etc., without having to do any photo editing. Afterward, you can take your time with adjustments (levels, color, sharpening, etc.), with your RAW picks.
Others may chime in with their reasons.
Narvon

Editing JPEGs with the RAW interface

I discovered a way to edit JPEG images using the RAW interface. I go to File > Open As... instead of File Open.., change the format in the lower window to "Camera RAW" and click open.
I am fully aware of the benefits of shooting in RAW as compared to JPEG and I'm not approaching this with the expectation that I'll get better results editing JPEGs using this approach. What I am addressing is the fact that the tools in the RAW interface are more consolidated and faster to use then going through a typical workflow using Levels - Hue/Saturation - Shadows/Highlights etc.
The other benefit seems to me is you can use the same RAW controls numerous times while editing, while you're only suppost to use Levels Hue/Saturation controls once so as to minimize the impact these tools have on image degradation.
Am I on to something here or out in left field?
Opinions please...
Deep Woods

Does two minor changes not equal one major change? I'm not sure. This also begs the question... at what point in using Levels, contrast or saturation tools does editing change from minor to major? Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I don't believe everyone out there would agree at what point this is defined.
True, major and minor is subjective, but I can see how you adjust the black point in levels, and then you come back into the photo later and decide to slide it a little more, I don't have any particular qualms about doing this, and I don't think anyone can look at the resulting image and say -- see, right there, quality degradation because you used levels twice.
The place where levels is most dangerous is when you either do ridiculous things, like move the sliders almost all the way to the middle, and then move them back almost all the way to the edges; or when you are getting posterization (which can happen from even a single use of levels).
Many publications I came across over the years indicate single adjustments only when using these tools on JPEGs, unless of course one is using Adjustment Layers.
Never read that. Can you please provide a reference?
This is why I was hoping for lots of feedback like yours on the issue of using the RAW interface to edit JPEGs. I've received very little feedback on this issue which tells me it is a little known option to users of Photoshop. It is so much easier to edit a JPEG using the RAW interface, rather than go through the conventional workflow with the other tools in Photoshop. So far no one has given me reason to think otherwise.
Yes, I agree editing JPGs in the raw interface has a number of advantages, ease of use being one of them. Non-destructive editing is another advantage. My guess as to why so few people use this tool is that: 1) PSE is a very overwhelming program, and once you learn the traditional way to do things (which is what you get from most books and tutorials), you don't want to bother learning another way to edit your photos; and 2) RAW scares many people.

Trouble converting RAW files with Camera RAW/DNG - CS4 Mac

Hello!
I am using CS4, with Camera RAW 5.7 and Adobe DNG 5.7. These are the versions listed as compatible with CS4. I am using a new Canon Powershot S100. Can I use newer versions of the RAW/DNG with CS4, or am I just out of luck? Please help!
caroline

Same story we hear again and again.
New camera, old software, and the often un-stated expectation that the software company should go out of its way to provide new camera support for free. First thought by those in the know is "you bought a new camera, why do you feel you don't need to buy new software to go with it?"
Those same folks who bought a new camera might never consider asking a camera manufacturer to make their new camera compatible with their old software. It's a funny disparity.
Adobe walks a tightrope of expectations. As it turns out, when you download the latest free DNG converter version they actually DO provide new camera support for free - it's just that converting to an intermediate file format is not quite as integrated or convenient as using the latest version of Photoshop with native support for that camera to just open the files directly. Nor do you get the SIGNIFICANT improvements in image quality that the newer converters provide.
Use the DNG converter, but if you care about your image quality you'll consider upgrading Photoshop. They really have made strides in raw conversion.
-Noel

Having problems with Canon Raw / Jpeg with Canon 5D

I have been noticing every time I open up a Raw file in CS2 the colors seem to be off and when I open up the Jpeg pic. they are compleatley different. The Jpeg files colors really pop, where the Raw files look blowen out and take a lot of work in editing.
What am I doing wrong? Do I need to upgrade to the CS4 package? Or is it a camera setting that I am missing?
When I was shooting a Canon 10D both Raw and Jpeg were the same and the colors were good. Thanks Keig

What you are seeing is the difference between how Canon develops the images and how Adobe develops the image (in CS2). Your options are somewhat limited in CS2 but you can try the following:
Open up a 5D image in Camera Raw.
Make adjustments to make the image look as close to the Jpeg as you can. This will probably mean adding some contrast, upping the shadows/blacks clipping point, and adding some saturation.
Save those settings as a new Camera Raw default. I don't remember if that is in the same place it is now ("Save new camera raw default" from the fly-out menu on the tab bar) but look around and you should find it.
The hardest part will be trying to get a good match on the color. An upgrade to CS4 would give you many enhancements to Camera Raw, including new Canon-like profiles that will give you 5D color similar to what you get in-camera or from Canon's Digital Photo Professional software.
Hope that helps.

Rebel XTi Shots with RAW & JPEG - Only The RAW Gets Imported

Hi,
Any help would be great. I've checked to see if I've missed any settings but nothing I can find. Funny thing is it works just fine in iPhoto. I'm a brand new Aperture user so I've got to be doing something wrong.
Thanks,
Mark

Well it is true that RAW files are typically flatter in their initial render than JPEGs are.
If the images were shot in similar light, then you could edit your "better" shots, and then lift and stamp the adjustments (say saturation 1.10, edge sharpening on, definition +15, etc.) and then stamp it on the other ones you don't care about.
Lift & stamp takes just a couple seconds to do.
Though this is one area where Lightroom has a nice feature of global presets -- you can default settings for a large group of adjustments and just apply it to a large group of images. Aperture doesn't have an equivalent that I've seen... you have to do piecemeal adjustments to a single image and then lift and stamp that. Enhancement request

P65+ RAW files with camera RAW - Not yet

Folks,
I'm just wondering if I'm alone here cos I can't find any mention anywhere online. Just had a shoot come in froma photographer (I'm in an ad' agency and we get all types of files from various photographers) shot on a P65+ back. The RAW TIFs are about 55MB each and when I bring them into to Photoshop or Lightroom to process the image to photoshop for retouch, it shows the four sensors from the camera back.You can just see it at this size, (client confiedential prodcut shoot I've had to blank out)
A close up shows the centre of the four sensors...
My workaround is to go back to CaptureOne and process the files to DNG, then bring them into Lightroom, but my DNGs become 110MB, twice the size the original RAW.
I know it's a fairly new digital back, but surely I'm not alone with this problem? Cos that would be really lonely ;-)

Mark Kenny wrote:
I know it's a fairly new digital back, but surely I'm not alone with this problem? Cos that would be really lonely ;-)
Correct...as far as I know, Phase still needs to get certain info out to Adobe in order to address the 4 quadrants. As I understand it, there are actually 4 "pipelines" of data being pulled off the chip. Think of them as arrayed data streams...none of them is gonna match "exactly" so Phase tucks calibration data in the file. Camera Raw can (as far as I know) read the data from a P 45+ so I don't think it's a question of if, but one of when...it didn't make the 5.4 update, maybe it'll make the next one (I don't actually know).
However, depending on the camera in use, you may indeed want to do the tiff > DNG conversion to take advantage of the Lens Correction capabilities of Capture One. I use a Phase 645 with Phase lenses that benefit from the DNG conversion.

"Save image" button of Camera Raw does not save JPEG with modifications made.

I am using Bridge CC to process my RAW images and make modifications to some JPEG images as well. I have no need to further alter images in Photoshop at the moment, so I do all modifications in Camera Raw. After altering my images, I then press the "save image" button at the left bottom corner of Camera Raw and choose the settings to save in JPEG. However, when I upload these JPEG images to a website or when I email them, the image is uploaded without the modifications I had done! It seems to me that Camera Raw is saving JPEGs the same way it does for RAW images, in a non-destructive manner, only attaching instructions for the images to be displayed properly on Photoshop. But when I save an image in JPEG, I expect the image to be saved entirely with the modifications I made while still keeping the original RAW file. What goes on then? What is Camera Raw doing and how do I get to save a modified image in JPEG with Camera Raw? Would you please explain?
Many thanks for your help,
Beza

Hi,
What version of camera raw and operating system are you using?

How or why would Lightroom replace my jpeg files with duplicate raw (.ORF)?

Greetings All,
I'm new to Lightroom but I'm trying to dive in head first and learn as much as I can in a short period. I historically shoot RAW + jpeg with an Olympus PEN EPL3. In an effort to keep the files separated I created a RAW subfolder in the parent folder, moved the RAW files into the subfolder, leaving the jpegs in the parent folder. I should point out that the RAW and associated jpeg still had the same identical file name given by the camera. The obvious difference being the file extension. This was all done prior to importing. After importing all seemed OK. I could see both files in the parent folder and hovering over each with the mouse showed one as a .ORF and the other as a .JPEG. And the subfolder showed only the .ORF files.
After flagging some files rejected and deleting them and flagging some to keep, at some point the JPEGS were replaced with identical, additional copies of the RAW files. So when viewing the parent folder instead of a RAW and JPEG side by side in the library, I had two RAW files and no JPEG. So my question for everyone is what did I do that might have caused this? And just so you know, I plan to only import RAW files into Lightroom in the future. As I struggle to get my head wrapped around a complete overhaul on how I manage my photos, I'm beginning to see the light. I'll still shoot both RAW and JPEG but shoot smaller JPEGS for emailing, etc. while on vacation or quickly after a shoot and only import the RAW files for later editing, eventually dumping all of the JPEGS to create new selected ones form my RAW edits.
So although I don't think I'll ever have the conditions again needed to reproduce my experience, I would like to try to have an understanding of it, if possible. Any suggestions or advice are greatly appreciated.
Thank you
MrCakes

All good stuff, thanks again. But I may have inferred I'm more a newbie than I actually am. By short amount of time I mean several weeks. I've utilized these and sat in two workshops so far (underwater photo editing). I realize its still just scratching the surface. I'm still keeping at it, even if I have to chalk this up to gremlins. I'll keep at it.

1.2 RAW + JPEG Stacking problem

I have posted this elsewhere, but nobody seems to understand my problem, I hope I can describe it correctly here...
Lightroom 1.2 is stacking photos automatically where the filename is the same, although the extensions are different:
All my photos are stored in folders by Date (i.e. I have a folder named "2007 10 04", which has 93 photos taken on that date). I have 2 files that have similar names (from different cameras). One file is of a duck and is named "IMG001.CR2", and the other file is of a cat named "IMG001.JPG". Lightroom has seen these files as the same photo and displays the duck photo, but hides the cat photo. The thumbnail only shows the duck photo, and has the header "CR2+JPG" to show me there are 2 photos. I want to separate these photos from each other, but cannot see how!
I hope this makes sense.

I don't think you CAN view them seperately later if they are 'joined'.
Way I heard it described was that it shows CR2+JPG as a 'convenience' so you know its there and Lightroom didn't just totally ignore it. (And apparently it would use it as a sidecar for display until LR created its own previews.)
Initially in 1.0 LR wouldn't let you import the jpegs at ALL unless they were in a different folder from the RAW images. This was because it was apparently thought that no "real" workflow by a "real" photographer would involve anyone wanting to look at the jpegs if the RAW existed, and being "smarter" than the user it wouldn't bring them in at all if they were side by side. Wasn't until they got flamed for this and some battles behind the scenes that they begrudgingly allow us to now do this.
What I'll probably do is evntually start stacking my jpegs with my RAW images... I wish there was an option to AUTOSTACK RAW to jpeg on import.

I am having issues when I shoot raw + jpeg. Raw files seem corrupt!!

I am having issues when I shoot raw + jpeg. It seems the raw files get corrupted. I have shot raw without an issue. It is only when I shoot raw + jpeg. The raw files will not show in Photoshop elements. I installed the Canon software and was able to see all the raw files; however, I noticed that when I tried to view some full screen they would not show. I also noticed that these raw files look block-ish. They appear more digital looking. Is there a specail card needed to shoot raw + jpeg? I formatted the ones that I have prior to using them.
Solved!
Go to Solution.

While it could certainly be a card-reader problem, data corruption of any kind can be any of the following:
1) the card
2) the cable (if used)
3) the card reader (if used)
4) the computer RAM,
5) thecomputer hard drive (or SSD)
A failure of any one of the above will result in corrupted images when viewed. Since it seems to be RAW file related, as they are signifantly larger than JPGs, it's likely anything but the card reader or cable.
The only way to 'beat it' is eliminate each of the possibilities, starting with the easiest/cheapest fix.
1) Use the cable. If that solves the problem, replace the card reader.
2) Use a different card. If that solves it, toss the old card.
3) If multiple sticks of internal computer RAM, swap them. If that fixes it, or, the problem 'moves' to other images, replace the RAM. It could be only 1 of 2 sticks bad, though, so use only 1 of the old sticks for a while to see if the problem recurs.
4) If you have multiple hard drives in your computer, or an external one, use that to store the photos for a while. If the problems go away, it's the drive. Note that hard drive failures typically start slowly and increase gradually. On occassion, though, your computer won't boot and it's all over. If you are down to thinking it's the hard drive, it's time to get a good backup...NOW!
For what it's worth, I had a similar problem with corrupted photos. Both RAW and JPGs were affected. But as the problems were after having loaded and initially viewed them on my HD, I knew it was a computer problem. It dogged me for a couple of weeks. I even played swap the memory sticks, pull one out and run on one only, swap the one for the other (running on one), and it STILL kept happening. I finally gave up and replaced both sticks of RAM. That solved the problem. So much for lifetime warranty from Hong Kong. A very well regarded brand of RAM, no less. My SSD drive was the next one on the list, it the new RAM didn't solve it.

Bug: RAW+JPEG Pairs import setting affects movie imports

Hi,
I want to exclude JPEG duplicates during import, but if I set RAW+JPEG Pairs to "RAW files only", then movie files are not imported. The only way I can get movie files imported is to import both RAW and JPEG. Is there a workaround for this bug?

Import the stills and movies separately and change the setting between imports.
If you feel this is a bug report it using Aperture->Provide Aperture Feedback

Help render the raw files edited with camera raw how?

Hi
i have a problem
i use bridge cs5 (updated) to browse my raw files
often i open my raw files with camera raw inside bridge cs5 and make some corrections like exposure , saturation , contrast and so on
but after bridge doesn't re-render the files
i mean the thumbs ,previews , the slideshow still are in default setting
when i click and open with camera raw inside bridge or with photoshop cs5 ,the raw files look with corretions
but again bridge show me not with the corrections
i run under w7 32bit
what could be the problem?
thanks

mantralightroom wrote:
i see previews and thumbs with the edits but with a big delay
thanks
If you are using HQ On Demand you will get fast thumbnails, but there will be a delay in generating the preview as Bridge builds it.
The Always HQ takes more space, but faster as the data is already in cache.
Hope this helps.

Help with managing RAW and jpeg images and installing iphoto 9

Greetings: Fist, let me make the neophyte apology and plea - I'm sorry, I should have come here first; I didn't and now I need your help.
I have just purchased a macbook pro (still in its box) with updated software for my older imac os x. I have a number of Canon related photo editing programs (that came with my 40D digital SLR) and Adobe photo elements 6 for mac on the imac. Following some erroneous advice I have made a complete mess of the pictures folder's content by trying to delete images directly from that folder (there are now 6000+ images in the folder, many of which are duplicates(?). Most of the images are not tagged or labeled and some have been organized in/by iphoto (I corrupted the iphoto's library structure very early on by disrupting and editing its images - which might explain why iphoto had a difficult time 'finding' and displaying some of my photos). The picture folder now holds jpegs, smallRAW images (a Canon 40D photo format) and various duplicates of the orignal images - (some of the duplicates don't display as images, but as jpeg logos, which, when opened contain duplicate image or are completely black) The first time I downloaded RAW images into iphoto 6 the RAW data displayed as a black image. When shooting in smallRAW on the Canon 40D, the camera produces a jpeg image for 'easy viewing and editing in the camera' but it looks as though iphoto 6 made duplicates of the jpeg and the RAW data and stored them in different locals in the picture file. In an attempt to get the number of images down, I have been trying to delete them from the picture folder. (My daughters both download images rather indiscriminately in hopes of 'editing them on the computer' which inevitably does not happen) and there is a lot of experimental bracketing of images - shooting raw and different Camera formats etc., all of which need to be cleaned up before I proceed.
Sometime in the not-too-distant future I would like to have iphoto 9 running on my imac with a clean library of images and a seamless way of downloading, editing and storing images (including the RAW data).
The macbook pro is for my highschool-aged daughter, who will run iphoto 9 but not have any RAW image data on her system. She would like to copy some of the old iMac's images to put into her own iPhoto 9 library (probably using a disk, email or on-line photo service - ideally, I would like to be able to copy and remove a number of those images from my HD and give them to her for the macbook)
A few questions and queries: Can I 'dis-able' iphoto 6, while I delete images (RAW and jpeg) from the picture file? (and is this even a good idea).
Once I have edited the # of images down to a reasonable size, should I re-launch iphoto 6, rebuild the iphoto library and then update to iphoto 9 or skip v6 and rebuild with v9?
And now for the 'how stupid is this guy question' - I really had planned to purchase an external backup; but between new the macbook, car repairs and braces it has never come to fruition. So, I have never properly backed up my images. What is the bare-bones, least expensive method for me to do this? I'd even consider burning everything to disks if that works. I can't afford the $ to purchase a new external hard drive right now (really). Budget is set aside mid-November for one though.
I've been looking through some other discussion boards and it looks like I'm not the only one having RAW image issues. I know that shooting smallRAW with the companion jpeg is probably not helping things but I take my camera equipment on extended canoe trips - and we like the ease of on-the-spot editing with this format.
Thanks in advance for your help - Mark

Terence, Is the picture folder the primary source for the images or does that data reside somewhere else?
If you gathered them there, then yes.
I really don't want to have to go through 14,000 images looking for the pictures that I want to keep (or is that my only option?).
Only you can decide what you want to keep.
Why does the computer keep making copies of the images and filing them under date and events?
That's how iPhoto works. It's not a problem usually, only you did go in there and make a problem, and now we are trying to fix it.
You advise not to muck around in the picture file via preview,
No I don't. I advise not to much around in the iPhoto Library Folder.
but if I download images through a program other than iPhotos - image capture or adobe aren't I doing that anyway?
Adobe what? Adobe is a software manufacturer who make many excellent applications, you need to be more precise. And no, if you import photos with Image Capture or “adobe” no you are not interfering with the iPhoto Library Folder.
Can you edit a base image file somewhere and remove it from the HD without iphoto making a copy of it and storing it somewhere else?
This is stunningly easy. Don't use iPhoto. Use an image editor.
I want to look the negatives, decide which ones I want and throw the rest away. Can that be done or am I way off course?
Yes, and iPhoto (or similar apps) make this really easy.
Hook up your camera. Import the pics to iPhoto. Go through the imported pics. Trash the ones you don't want. Then process the ones you do. But you must learn how to use iPhoto to do this successfully
To trash: put the pic in the iPhoto trash and empty it. This removes the file from iPhoto and the Hard Disk.
Process it: If you want to use another editor: You can set Photoshop (or any image editor) as an external editor in iPhoto. (Preferences -> General -> Edit Photo: Choose from the Drop Down Menu.) This way, when you double click a pic to edit in iPhoto it will open automatically in Photoshop or your Image Editor, and when you save it it's sent back to iPhoto automatically. This is the only way that edits made in another application will be displayed in iPhoto.
Regards
TD

Adobe Camera Raw for Nikon - generate JPEG with color off

Hi,
I am learning Photoshop and Camera RAW. I am using CS2 and ACR 3.7 on Windows XP.
I have noticed that the JPEG file generated by CAMERA RAW has the color slightly off (towards the bluish direction).
This is what I did, I started Adobe Bridge, I opened up the Nikon RAW file (from D200) with Camera RAW and then generated the JPEG file without using any AUTO or custom setting (took the As SHOT setting). After the JPEG file is generated, I compared the JPEG file, with the file on Camera RAW window, the color of the pictures don't match up. So what you see on Camera RAW window is not what you get in JPEG. The color shown in the Camera RAW window is warmer than the JPEG file. I used the Widnows default jpeg viewer and the Arcsoft Editor to look at the JPEG file, and confirmed the color of the JPEG file is off from the original RAW filed viewed Camera RAW widnow.
However, when I opened that same JPEG file (generated by Camera Raw) in Adobe Photoshop, and the original RAW file (without any modification) in Photoshop, the color of the JPEG file matches up the color of the original RAW file only in Photogroup. I am confused now.
Why the color of the JPEG file (generated by Camera RAW) looks OK on photoshop, but it is off in other viewers (default Windows viewer or ArcSoft Editor). However, when I used PictureProject (supplied by Nikon) to generate the JPEG file from that same original RAW file (without any modification), and I looked at the JPEG file (generated by PictureProject) on Photoshop, Arcsoft Editor, and default Windows viewer, the color matches up to the original RAW file on all viewers. So the problem only happens to the JPEG file generated by Camera Raw. Any idea?
Thanks,

When you saved out the JPEG in Camera Raw, what color space did you save it with?

RAW+JPEG with unsupported RAW

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