Re-Seperating Color Vs Convert to Profile

I am working on several projects that are switching from overseas printers to domestic (US) printers. I have a custom profile I use, that is a variation of SWOP.
If I choose "convert to profile" there is no color shift. However, this is because nothing changes except the profile. Dmax is the same. No shifting of color value at all. (so what happens?) If I want to fit the specs I have set for this profile I need to switch modes to RGB and then re-seperate to CMYK. I know this is not good for image quality. It generates gaps in the histogram and causes a pretty serious change in colors for something that was already CMYK.
Is there a direct way to switch profiles that actually changes the color to meet the specs of the destination profile?
I have been going through and manually tweeking each image but with close to 1,000 in line I want to automate as much as possible.
Thanks,
Hartley
Using Ps Cs5
Mac OSX 10.6.8
2.7 GHZ i5 iMac

If I choose "convert to profile" there is no color shift. However, this is because nothing changes except the profile. Dmax is the same. No shifting of color value at all. (so what happens?)
If the two profiles are identical in every way no change may happen.
But if they are different in any way – and Total Area Coverage is just one of the properties – then a change may be imperceptible but still likely to have occured.
Just overlay the one with the other (without reseparating on dropping or pasting) and set the top one to Blend Mode Difference.

Similar Messages

Color setting and convert to profile

i found that when i use the "convert to profile" to convert my image, the "intent" setting in Color Settings will affect the image conversion.
That means the "conversion options" in color setting will overwrite/affect the same "conversion options" in convert to profile, is it a bug or is true?
i am using PS CS6 v13.0.5.

hi Pfaffenbichler,
thanks for your reply,
i am not sure is it a bug, maybe that is normal, but i have a question is:
When i convert an image from LAB to CMYK color mode using "Convert to Profile" function
If convert to profile > conversion options > intent: Relative Colorimetric, but color setting > conversion options > intent: Absolute Colorimetric
the result is different with LAB value
If convert to profile > conversion options > intent: Relative Colorimetric, but color setting > conversion options > intent: Relative Colorimetric
As far as i know, the result of LAB should be same. It is because i think color setting will not affect the conversion.
i made a pdf for your reference, hope you know what i want to explain.
Many thanks.
Regards,
Ming-yiu CHEUNG
Deputy Manager

PS CS6 - Convert to profile - wrong color preview with AdobeRGB - AdobeRGB conversion.

Hello,
I've discovered what looks as a little bug to me in CS6 (as compared to PS CS3 and CS4).
I would be inteterested if others could confirm it (or explain it to me)
When using Convert to profile, AdobeRGB->AdobeRGB "conversion" bugs in the preview. Since there's no actual conversion, the preview should remain the same but instead shows a strong contrast shift.
Here's my workflow:
- Working color space : sRGB (I use Europe General Purpose 3 preset)
- Open a document in AdobeRGB (original profile preserved, no prior conversion to sRGB), no soft-proofing activated
- I run "Convert to profile", Source profile is Adobe RGB. Now if I go for Destination profile: AdobeRGB (which is of course "pointless"), I see a color shift in the image preview. If I run the conversion, the image reverts to normal, hence this just affects the preview. Note that converting to other profiles like sRGB doesn't give a wrong preview.
"Convert to profile" settings are Engine: Adobe (ACE), Intent: Relative Colorimetric, Use black point compensation and Dither. Altering these settings doesn't correct the bug I'm mentionning.
This visual preview bug only affects AdobeRGB -> AdobeRGB conversion (again, yes, I know, it's pointless)
I've tested the issue on two separated machines (Windows 7, PS CS6 x64)
Do you experience the same issues?
Thank you!
JS

This has been reported before and can be easily reproduced. I've never heard that it's any kind of special feature - I'm with you: Bug.
I suspect because it's a preview-only problem and doesn't affect the image quality, and it's kind of nonsensical operation anyway, Adobe has assigned it a priority level below that of pretty much everything else.
But if it were my software I'd certainly be embarrassed that it does that.
-Noel

How do I get my .csf file setting to show up in the Convert to Profile or Proof as menu choices?

I received specific menu choices for Color Settings from a commercial printer I use. I went to Edit<Color Settings and saved them as a .csf file in User/Library/Applications Support/Adobe/Color/Settings. I named the .csf file after the printer. When I go back into Edit<Color Settings and open the Settings menu I am able to choose the settings I saved from the list of settings. Now I open an image in PhotoShop and go to Edit<Convert to Profile. In the dialog box I open the Profile menu, but the settings I saved in Edit<Color Setting are not one of the Profile choices. Am I confusing Setting and Profiles? How do I Convert an image file to the setting given me by the printer? I also wanted to proof as per the printer's settings. When I go to View<Proof setup<Custom I can choose Working CMYK Web Coated SWOP 2006 Grade 3 Paper, which is generally the profile this printer is using. But I can't choice my specific color settings saved under the printer's that I previously saved in Edit<Color Settings. In the Proof Setup dialog box when I press the load button I can navigate to the Settings folder where my .csf file is saved, but it is greyed-out so I can't choose it. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Please advise/help. Thank you.

"Am I confusing Setting and Profiles?"
Yes. A Color Settings File (CSF) will contain values for all the controls in the Color Settings dialog. One of these controls specifies the profile to be used for the CMYK Working Space. That profile will be used by default when you create a new CMYK document or convert an RGB (or some other colour space) document to CMYK.
The profile, not the CSF, will be at the top of the list of CMYK options in the Convert to Profile dialog, as "Working CMYK - <name of your CMYK profile>". However, you may want to skip that dialog and instead do Image > Mode > CMYK, which will simply raise a prompt asking you whether to proceed with the conversion to your CMYK Working Space profile.
In View > Proof Setup menu, item "Working CMYK" also will use the profile that's specified in Color Settings, then "Custom..." in the same menu will give access to options to simulate paper and black ink.

PS CC Converting to profile and embedding a profile

Hi,
I just started using PS CC 2014. I have a number of variables that have changed, such as a new iMac, secondary monitor etc. I am working in aRGB when processing and I go to print via the Canon plug-in for Photoshop. I convert to profile using the ICC profile I want to use for the media and ink set that I am using. I had custom profiles made for these papers. When I save the file after printing it, it embeds the ICC profile, example Epson Premium Luster etc. instead of keeping it in the aRGB working space. I do not recall ever seeing this done automatically in prior versions and years that I have used PS. I would like to save the changes etc. but I do not want the paper profile embedded because I may want to use another paper with that file next time. When I open the file the next time and I want to print it I get the message that there is a mis-match between working profile and embedded profile, or something similar to that ( I do not have the message in front of me ). That means I have to convert the file to the working space at that point and it is an extra step that I did not have to do before.
Is there a box I need to check or uncheck somewhere to keep the file in the aRGB space or am I just loosing my mind here?
Thank you,
Jim

I'm not a Color Management expert, but converting and then saving from Adobe RGB to a Printer Profile tags and saves that file with that profile.
Your file space, Adobe RGB, no longer matches Photoshop's Adobe RGB working space and that's why you get the warning.
If you are printing from Photoshop, you do not convert to that profile and save, otherwise it is embedded.
That would only make sense if the printer was somewhere else, and you would then make a copy of that file with that specific printer profile embedded.
What you do is use the Print dialog and check "let Photoshop manage colors" and you pick your profile from the list.
Your file stays tagged as Adobe RGB.
You can turn off mismatch warnings in CC 2014 But be sure you are not "hiding a problem".
Edit menu > Color Settings
Uncheck these boxes:
Gene

Illustrator 10, Convert to Profile: mental block or sudden blindness?

I've either hit a mental block or have become temporarily blind, but I cannot find "Convert to Profile" in Illustrator 10.0.3 Mac, running Tiger 10.4.11.
Any hint or slap on the head that might jog my memory will be appreciated. The Help files have not been helpful yet. As the fortune cookie said, old age always comes at a most inopportune time.
Thanks in advance.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

steve fairbairn wrote:
Or do you mean Assign Current Working Space (colour profile) when opening a file?
No! When you Assign a profile, you preserve the numbers but you change (wreck the hell out of) the colors. When you Convert to a Profile, you change the numbers but you preserve the colors.
It seems that old AI 10 did not have such a menu Command in the Edit menu, as Photoshop has, so the workaround would be to close the file and pen it again, at which time you do get presented with the choice of CONVERTING to a profile.
steve fairbairn wrote:
Edit:
Edit > Color Settings (Cmd+Shift+K)
No, Changing your Color settings is a global dialog box that affects your working space, not your open document.
Thank you for your time anyway.

Photoshop "convert to profile" box---how to ignore?

Hello,
I have an batch & action that "converts to profile" as well as other image resizings--and then saves.
On 2 workstations--the batch,action works fine.
On the 3rd workstation, I get the "convert to profile" window asking to "confirm"?
Where do I go to fix this?
its not the batch because when I run the action (only) on the machines---it stops on the 3rd yet the first 2 machines--the action works without a hitch.
Any tips would be appreciated.
thanks,
Tom

Hi,
Do you have both Suppress File Open Options Dialogs and Suppress Color Profile Warnings checked in the Batch dialog?

Converting to profile

Hi,
I found this script that assigns profile to a new document: http://forums.adobe.com/message/1114320#1114320. Works perfectly fine, but I would like to convert to profile, not assign. As I am a newbie to scripting, I tried different strings, without any success.
Any help appreciated.

Now we are getting somewhere:
"3) Then I placed it to InDesign (in Color Settings: Color Management Policy/CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles , I think this has to be set before creating document)"
My printer told me specifically the color management policy had to be set to Preserve numbers (or whatever the official English equivalent is of my Dutch 'Nummers behouden (gekoppelde profielen negeren'), otherwise it converting during pdf'ing would not work... I'm confused.
I changed the setting to Preserve Embedded Profiles, did the exact test you did AND also did it with my SC-paper profile and it seems to work now...! When I choose Convert to Destination (preserve numbers) when I want to export as a pdf, the text stays black and the pictures get the right imk limit!!!
Great! Although I don't understand it at all... How come that when I preserve the embedded profiles and the convert with preserving numbers, the picture is changed...? I thought these two settings would realy change the picture...!
Well, I am going to to some heavy testing here to see if it all REALLY works. But I would like to understand why it works too...

Why are there changes in the histogram with a convert to profile?

When you convert an image to a different profile the color numbers change, in order for the colors to represented the same (as closely as possible given the gamut differences) in the new color space. The histogram also changes, quite noticeably. Why? Is it representing the raw numbers and not their interpretation in the new space? And if so -- why is that? Is it of some use?
Thanks!

I understand that for an export operation, but still puzzled why the histograms are almost identical in LR for images that had been brought into PS from the same RAW file and converted to different spaces (with slight differences undoubtedly due to the different gamuts). In that case, LR must be "honoring" the different color spaces, with the same appearance and histograms... But when I soft-proof the same RAW file I get very different histograms -- the sRGB more stretched out than the ProPhoto one. Those soft-proof histograms are "the same" (realizing they are all quick calculations) as when I do the corresponding convert to profile in PS.
Maybe I'm not getting my head around "the histogram of the proof target." That would be the more "dramatic" (changed) histogram I'm seeing in LR's soft proof and PS's convert to profile. But is there a reason to show it that way? Doesn't a histogram need to be interpreted in a color space to be meaningful?
If I go ahead with something like a Save for Web or Export from LR in that target color space, I'll then see the histogram return to more or less what it was before (given that rendering intent has done its thing).
Is it that the more dramatic histogram is simply representing the image in the wrong color space?? I can see that as a pragmatic decision.

Convert to profile

CS3 - When exporting InDesign documents to pdf files a safe workflow
requires to use "Convert to profile - preserve numbers". If we only use
"Convert to profile" black text may separate. I am wondering what you do
use this "Convert to profile" for at all?
Regards Nina Storm

and another scenerio falling on the same problem:
i recieved corporate logo in AI format with strict corporate color specifications like this:
MEGAN Ltd. Yellow: 5,15,100,15
MEGAN Ltd. Blue: 100,25,5,20
AI Embedded profile: Euroscale
that means, that whoever was creativelly choosing the colors for the logo, he was choosing and viewing them under Euroscale profile...
now, when i open this AI document in my Illustrator, i get a profile mismatch warning, because we use ISO Coated v2 as default CMYK working space for all Adobe apps in our workflow.
now lets go through the options Illustrator gives me:
1) i "USE THE EMBEDDED PROFILE INSTEAD OF MY WORKING SPACE" which is recommended by Adobe because it saves the CMYK raw numbers and most importantlly it uses the original embedded profile to paint the color numbers on my screen, so i see the exact colors as they were seen by the author of the document, because we both look on the same raw numbers using the same profile Euroscale. IDEAL
2) when i would use "CONVERT DOCUMENTS COLORS TO WORKING SPACE" I would also get the same LOOK of the colors, because Illustrator would take raw numbers under Euroscale and recalculate them into my ISOCoated v2 to ensure the colors on the monitor LOOK same in my "ISO Coated workflow" as they looked in the "Euroscale workflow" used originally by the author of the logo.
BUT HERE COMES A LITTLE FLAW IN SO FAR ALMOST IDEAL WORKFLOW - instead of the specified corporate colors given by the author using Euroscale:
MEGAN Ltd. Yellow: 5,15,100,15
MEGAN Ltd. Blue: 100,25,5,20
my illustrator converts these nice and easy to follow corporate numbers into complete mess:
MEGAN Ltd. Yellow: 3.52 , 14.45 , 100 , 15.63
MEGAN Ltd. Blue: 100 , 19.53 , 4.69 , 22.66
now imagine i would be working for giants like FORD, COCACOLA or MARLBORO i cannot change the raw color numbers just like that everytime I or somebody else down the road happens to use different working profile than the original embedded profile. in some companies the corporate CMYK numbers are "holy" and nobody can change them along the process...
so that sends me pretty much into ONLY possible direction in Illustrator and that is to preserve raw numbers AND also preserve embedded profile to ensure i see the same colors on my monitor as the author did... therefore in this case i choose "USE THE EMBEDDED PROFILE INSTEAD OF MY WORKING SPACE" to preserve numbers and profile (thus look of the colors)
BUT HOW ABOUT INDESIGN ??!!
Because I use the widelly recommended policy by Adobe for CMYK "Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles)" I import the AI document with the logo into InDesign and here iam again...
InDesign reads the raw numbers from AI logo ("Preserve Numbers...") but he discards or ignores the embedded profile ("...(Ignore Linked Profiles)")
so if i understand this weird policy correctlly InDesign is ignoring the original embedded Euroscale profile used by the author of the logo while he was choosing and viewing the colors and instead uses current Document's CMYK profile (the one selected in Assign Profiles dialogbox in InDesign, in my case that is ISOCOated v2)
SO AT THIS MOMENT the author of the logo and I have the same raw numbers in InDesign but if we would go to Soft-proof we would both see different colors (color variations) because the author is looking on the numbers using Euroscale profile and my InDesign now uses Document's CMYK profile which is ISO Coated v2
WRONG!

Convert to Profile Bug

I noticed if I have a layered RGB (Profoto RGB color space), save a flat copy and then convert the flat copy to CMYK (U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 using Convert to Profile [Engine: Adobe, Intent: Relative Colorimetric, no BPC, Dither On] I get a different conversion then if I did the same to the layered file. I do not have the same problem if I just do a mode change from RGB to CMYK? Huh. Seems like a bug to me.
I am using the same conversion to both a flat file and a layered file (no smart objects). I should get the same results when doing a Profile to Profile conversion. Does anyone no what actually happens if I just do a mode conversion? What rendering intent is used for mode conversion RGB to CMYK?
Thanks for your help.

Why would it make a difference?
Mr. Cox explained pleanty, but I want to add, too:
The idea that the same combination of Layers (and Adjustment Layers) with various transparencies and/or Blend Modes should result in the same appearance in different Color Modes seems to betray some lack of comprehension of the issues at hand.
Most CMYK-spaces will have a black of significantly less than 400% TAC – that alone should illustrate that a black Layer at any solidity below 100 (or Blend Mode other than Normal) will create different results with underlying content from a black Layer in RGB with the same settings.
At work we are sometimes confronted with requests for layered CMYK-files of montages we naturally did in RGB from agencies or customers – but while one often can in fact approach a similar appearance this is occasionally difficult, takes time and is basically just necessary to accomodate people who want to do work themselves without necessarily bothering to learn the basics, like color management.
Mode conversions are relative colorimetric intent, converted from the document profile to the workingspace profile for the target mode.
Wouldn’t that depend on the Color Settings’ Conversion Options?

Convert to Profile (Applescript)

Hi All,
I'm looking for an applescript command to perform "Convert to Profile" on my current document in Photoshop CS3. I've seen a Javascript solution in this Forum, but nothing for applescript. Any help would be appreciated.
I would also love to know how to set PS preferences so that all new docs created in a given image mode use a pre-set profile.
Thanks,
Jamie

Jamie, you can set Photoshop's colour settings by name string before opening/creating your files. You can decide how to treat profiles there. This should give you some help.
tell application "Adobe Photoshop CS2"
-- Record current settings
set User_CS to color settings
-- Apply your settings
set color settings to "Marks Test"
end tell
tell application "Adobe Photoshop CS2"
activate
tell document 1
-- Apply a colour profile
if color profile name ≠ "Europe ISO Coated FOGRA27" then
set color profile name to "Europe ISO Coated FOGRA27"
end if
-- Convert to colour profile
if color profile name ≠ "U.S. Sheetfed Coated v2" then
convert to profile "U.S. Sheetfed Coated v2" intent absolute colorimetric with dithering without blackpoint compensation
end if
end tell
end tell
tell application "Adobe Photoshop CS2"
-- Put back settings
set color settings to User_CS
end tell

"Convert to Profile" command in the Edit menu

Sorely needed: a "Convert To Profile" command in Illustrator's Edit panel, right under "Assign Profile", jut like in Photoshop.
It's Color Management 101.
Without it, Illustrator's color management abilities are stuck back in the stone age.
The Illustrator engineers team should know exactly what I'm talking about.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

Empty/corrupt library after upgrade/crash
Hopefully it's not been too long since you last upgraded iTunes, in fact if you get an empty/incomplete library immediately after upgrading then with the following steps you shouldn't lose a thing or need to do any further housekeeping. Note that in iTunes 11 an "empty" library may show your past purchases with links to stream or download them.
In the Previous iTunes Libraries folder should be a number of dated iTunes Library files. Take the most recent of these and copy it into the iTunes folder. Rename iTunes Library.itl as iTunes Library (Corrupt).itl and then rename the restored file as iTunes Library.itl. Start iTunes. Should all be good, bar any recent additions to or deletions from your library.
Alternatively, depending on exactly when and why the library went missing, there may be a more recent .tmp file in the main iTunes folder that can be copied & renamed as iTunes Library.itl to restore the library to an earlier state. Look for a recent .tmp file that is similar in size to the .itl files in the Previous iTunes Libraries folder. If it has happened repeatedly you may want the earliest such file generated since the last iTunes upgrade.
If applicable, see iTunes Folder Watch for a tool to catch up with any changes since the backup file was created.
When you get it all working make a backup!
Should you be in the unfortunate position where you are no longer able to access your original library, or a backup of it, then see Recover your iTunes library from your iPod or iOS device.
I've noticed more of these missing library posts of late and a common factor to most since I started asking is AVG Anti-Virus. It seems in some cases it might be at least part of the reason why the library file disappears. Try excluding the iTunes folder from any AV scanning process.
tt2

Convert to Profile Puzzlement

I am afraid I am revealing my ignorance with this question, but I am puzzled by what I see when I convert an image from Adobe RGB to sRGB. What I see is no change whatsoever, that is visible to my eye. My working space is Adobe RGB, but when I convert an image to sRGB in order to send it for viewing on a monitor, as for example when attaching a lower-resolution version to an e-mail, I see no difference in the image on my calibrated (Spyder2) monitor.
I start with an image taken with my Canon 40D with the color space set for Adobe RGB, as I print most of my good images and do not post images on the Web with any frequency. As I mentioned, my Photoshop CS3 working space is also Adobe RGB. When I do use Convert to Profile... and choose sRGB, I can see no change at all. I have tried a different copy of the sRGB profile (sRGB IEC61966-2.1), properly installed in C:/Windows/System32/Spool/Drivers/Color, but there is no difference.
Explanation or clarification will be appreciated.
Bob N.

Not sure I agree there...?
The way I understand it, "convert to profile" isn't supposed to change appearance, that's the whole point, because Photoshop is changing the actual numbers to accomodate the new profile.
"Assign profile" on the other hand, *will* change the appearance.
This becomes clearer if you keep the histogram open: when you "convert", you can actually see the histogram change. With "assign" the histogram doesn't change - and as a consequence; the appearance does.
The reason for "converting" from your working space (Adobe/ProPhoto) to sRGB is so that the image will look *roughly* the same in a non-color managed environment (e.g. the web) as it does on your color managed monitor.
...or am I way off here?

Your Current color settings honor CMYK profiles in linked content but profiles were set to be ignored when document was created

"Your Current color settings honor CMYK profiles in linked content but profiles were set to be ignored when document was created"
I keep receiving this message on my illustrator files. They are linked to a file in Indesign that when saved as a PDF prints the wrong colors. I have been trying to fix this for two days. I have look online for answer in forums and articles and nothing works i am completely burn out, lost and angry Please help. This is a Picture book project that can not to sent to the author in this condition.

Your Illustrator files have images linked in them?
THis message tells you that color management had been set up differently when you created the document. In color management settings you have the choice if color profiles in linked images are ignored (and Illustrator uses just the CMYK numbers) or if those profiles are honored (and Illustrator converts the CMYK numbers according to the image profile and your settings into the Illustrator document's color profile).
What makes the whole thing even more complicated is that you placed the thing into InDesign.
So there might be 4 different color profiles interacting with each other:
1. the linked image's profile
2. the AI document's color profile
3. the InDesign document's color profile
4. The export profile in InDesign.
Is your color management set up and synchronized in Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign?
Is it possible to place the images directly in InDesign? That is: create vector content in Illustrator and have photos separately? Then combine them in Illustrator?
How do you know they print the wrong colors? Just seeing them on your monitor won't tell you, unless your system is correctly color calibrated.

Re-Seperating Color Vs Convert to Profile

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