Refine Edge with complex background

I am working on an Easter poster for my family, and I found a photo of a bunny on wikimedia commons that I liked (shown below). When I first looked at it, I thought, "I've used the refine edge tool a few times before. I can isolate the bunny from the setting, no problem!" Well, two hours later I was nowhere near having the kind of results I expected. What I need to know is, is it my cursory experience with an advanced tool (by comparison) that hindered my efforts and I just need more practice with refine edge, or is the complexity of the grassy background just dooming any shortcut from the start and leaving me with no good alternative to pixel-level editing? If the former, I would be highly receptive to any suggestions to settings and/or methods using the tool.
And yeah, I know there are many, many more bunny images out there. But this is more about my judgment and skill level w/ Photoshop than it is about one small project. Striving to get where you folks are. Any input greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
- DK

That's not a great image. Like you say, Refine Edge is not going to give you a great result, and the rabbit is out of focus and the lighting flat. It's even particularly big, (unless you downsized it to upload to this forum) Seeing as you found it on the internet, I'd be strongly inclined to go find a better example.
There are several hits with rabbits on white backgrounds, which will make selection so much easier. GOOGLE
But if you really want to use Refine Edge on your example, have a look at this Martin Evening tutorial, which is the best of its kind I know of for that sort of subject matter.

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Using Refine Edge with a tablet

When using Refine Edge with a Wacom tablet is there any way to change the brush size (when using the Refine Radius and Erase Refinements tools) other than with pen pressure?
I realise that most tablet users like changing brush size this way but personally I am more comfortable using the keyboard shortcuts.
Am using CS6 trial with mac Lion.
Would appreciate any thoughts, Mark.

mnaj100 wrote:
r-bin, I did try that, exactly as you suggested but it doesn't work for me, thanks for trying.
May be because i run cs6 on XP. But i can do this trick that looks like a bug.

Using Refine edge with Quick Selection......

I think I'm doing something wrong, because I can do a quick selection, but when I hit the "Refine Edge" button and make a change to the selection, my change doesn't "take"...
I have an image, one layer (background), absolutely normal, boring image (for example, a white swan sitting in the blue water). I go in with Quick Select and select PART OF
the swan. I have areas that aren't selected, and areas that are selected and shouldn't be. So, I need to refine my selection. I subtract and add bits of selection with the
Quick Select tool, but leave a big piece of the swan's body NOT selected, and a bit of water SELECTED. So, I need to go in with a tool and refine the edge of my selection...
SO, I hit "Refine Edge" from the tool bar and select "Overlay" for my view mode. I can now see what's selected, and know what I'd like to change. And, I have a red overlay
so I have a visual guide to changing things....
Go to the "Refine Radius Tool" and paint over an area I want ADDED to my selection (a piece of swan immediately adjacent to my original selection)... It runs red, like I'd expect.
I release the mouse and a second later, the red goes away, but the selection has NOT been changed. I've tried this directly from the Quick Select tool. I've double-clicked the
background layer and changed it so it's not background any more - made no difference. I've created a layer mask on the no-longer background layer (the mask contains my
Quick Selection just fine). I've then used the Mask panel to specify "Mask Edge" and again tried the "Refine Radius Tool" to add an area to my selection. Again, it turns red
while selecting, then stops being red when I let go, and the area I selected is NOT added to the selection...
I watched a presentation by a Photoshop person who DEMONSTRATED exactly what I'm doing, and it worked. I looked at Martin Evening's CS5 book, and as near as I can tell,
I did exactly what he described... He got a selection, added to the selection, and it worked fine...
I figure I've got something configured wrong, or something else goofed up. What am I missing here?

It's not my intention (intent?) to beat up on the "Refine Edge". I figured when I couldn't get the same pristine results as all the demos that I was doing something wrong, and kept watching more people doing this 'cause I figured I was doing something dumb...
Mostly, I've been trying this on different images over the last couple weeks just to see if I could figure out how to get it to work.
From the responses in here I suspect I'm doing it correctly, but the images I'm trying it on just don't lend themselves to perfect edges without some additional work..... The Quick Select and a bit of edge cleanup is still faster than the "good old days", so its definitely a step forward.
As far as the swans, yes, no matter what I did, I was getting a lot of extraneous selections and wonky edges and stuff. One of these days I'll try pulling an eagle or a great egret out of a clear sky and see how that goes. I suspect it'll work a lot better...
I only fiddled with the rodeo image 'cause I figured it was "like" hair. But my background is pretty busy. With a little additional work I DID get a very, very good selection, and was able to soften the background, and do a gradient so the ground under the horse is sharp, gradually blurring as it moves to the grandstands...
Thanks for all the replies...

Need Help with Complex Background Images

Hey, Macromedia, I mean, Adobe Dreamweaver users. I have a
dilemma, before you read further, look at this website:
https://statons.rtotogo.com/rtotogostore/rto_store/sign_in.asp.
Notice the background images. The light tan stripe at the top, the
orange/yellow stripe beneath it, and the darker tan color that
encompasses the rest of the background. When you go to a longer
page on the site, the top two colors do not repeat, and as the page
shrinks on smaller pages, so does the darker tan background. How
can I do this? I've seen it done before, and I read the source
code, but I am confused as to how I can accomplish this..... Please
advise! I am in desperate need of your expertise!
Thanks in advance for the help.
Chuck

It's controlled using CSS check out the css script and the
backgounds are
set to repeat along the x axis only
cheers
Ian
[email protected]
http://www.edwards-micros.co.uk
"ChuckRWD" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
news:e93ha7$lmi$[email protected]..
> Hey, Macromedia, I mean, Adobe Dreamweaver users. I have
a dilemma,
> before you
> read further, look at this website:
>
https://statons.rtotogo.com/rtotogostore/rto_store/sign_in.asp.
Notice
> the
> background images. The light tan stripe at the top, the
orange/yellow
> stripe
> beneath it, and the darker tan color that encompasses
the rest of the
> background. When you go to a longer page on the site,
the top two colors
> do
> not repeat, and as the page shrinks on smaller pages, so
does the darker
> tan
> background. How can I do this? I've seen it done before,
and I read the
> source code, but I am confused as to how I can
accomplish this.....
> Please
> advise! I am in desperate need of your expertise!
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
> Chuck
>

My Refine Edge in Photoshop CS6 has STOPPED WORKING, please help!

Photoshop CS6
Windows 8.1
I have been using refine edge with no problem for months.
everything worked great!
I was able to extract out hair and edges very, very, very well...
but about 2 weeks ago...something changed... the refine edge brush no longer works.
When I click on Refine Edge... instead of a brush icon, I get the CIRCLE with a SLASH and my system keeps dinging because the tool is just not available.
I deleted my preferences...but it is still a problem
NOW... when I adjust the sliders, i don't see a preview of the adjustments...
Please help!!!!

no difference.
i have tried to check and uncheck everything...
if i adjust the sliders, i get NO Preview... but when i click OK, the resulting photo has been completely ruined by the tool...
I tried deleting preferences...no change
the weird thing is that this problem was very sudden. Just a few weeks ago, I was using refine edge with NO PROBLEM. it is my GO TO tool for extracting people out of pictures...
but then one day, it just stopped working...
Do i need to reinstall CS6???

Refine edge in masks CS6

every time i try to refine the edge of a mask, it begins to erase my picture instead of adding in the hair etc. i tried this on several computers at school and it did the same thing, so it isnt my computer/software. my teacher has sat down with me several times and said im not doing anything wrong. this has NEVER worked for me and im extremely frustrated. PLEASE help

no difference.
i have tried to check and uncheck everything...
if i adjust the sliders, i get NO Preview... but when i click OK, the resulting photo has been completely ruined by the tool...
I tried deleting preferences...no change
the weird thing is that this problem was very sudden. Just a few weeks ago, I was using refine edge with NO PROBLEM. it is my GO TO tool for extracting people out of pictures...
but then one day, it just stopped working...
Do i need to reinstall CS6???

Refine Edge in Photoshop CS6 superior to Fluid Mask 3?

I have been using Fluid Mask 3 since Photoshop CS3.
But, recently, looking at a tutorial at a retouch DVD I bought, it seems that the CS6 version of Refine Edge is superior to Fluid Mask.
It seems to have a far more advanced algorithm, and the fact you can work in layer mode with actually seeing what you are masking off in real view, it seems to me it's time to ditch Fluid Mask 3.
What's your take on this?

no difference.
i have tried to check and uncheck everything...
if i adjust the sliders, i get NO Preview... but when i click OK, the resulting photo has been completely ruined by the tool...
I tried deleting preferences...no change
the weird thing is that this problem was very sudden. Just a few weeks ago, I was using refine edge with NO PROBLEM. it is my GO TO tool for extracting people out of pictures...
but then one day, it just stopped working...
Do i need to reinstall CS6???

Selecting subject vs. background when extracting with Refine Edge?

When extracting a subject from one image to another using the Quick Selection Tool and Refine Edge:
1. When is it better to make a selection of the background, make a layer maks of it, invert it, load the mask and use Refine Edge VS. just making a selection of the subject and using Refine Edge?
Thanks!

You would do it that way when the object being extracted is on a white background. You would place the replacement background on top of that image. Set the background replacement layer's blending mode to multiply for the lower white background will not effect anything on the replacement background layer. You would then add the layer mask containing the silhouette of the lower layer object and unlink the mask. Your inverted selection. The mask does not need to be very good for any fringe areas cut off by the mask would still show because of the multiply blending. Unlinking the mask let to move the replacement around.
original image
Replacement background on top set to multiply
Add layer mask and unlink it
unlinking the mask gives you the ability to move and position the replacement background

Getting poor results with Refine Edge tool

Not sure if anyone else has run into this issue. But after following numerous tutorials on lynda.com as well as tv.adobe.com and youtube, I just can't get good selection results using the Refine Edge tool in Photoshop CC and I'm convinced it's something I'm doing wrong, but I have no idea what.
After downloading this Wikipedia image of Bismarck for a history documentary, I tried isolating the figure from the background using Refine Edge and keep getting poor results. Maybe it's my settings, I'm just not sure. But after painting over my edges, I end up with terrible results. Unfortunately, I'm getting poor results with other images as well. Can anyone venture to guess what I might be doing wrong? Thanks very much in advance.

Hi ninose11,
For this type of project and idea, I would recommend trying some of the magnetic lasso tool. The tool is located as the third tool in the toolbar (you should see a lasso or rope looking icon), hold down the icon and it should expand - then select the magnetic lasso tool. The magnetic lasso tool will allow you to scroll over the edge of his profile and it will automatically detect the outline edges. The slower you roll-over the shape the higher the accuracy will be. If the magnet is not detecting a particular edge or sharp corner (for example, the ear) you can manually drop points by simply right-clicking at any point during the selection. If the edge is too sharp, you can also create a light feather which will blend the edge softly (this should be located at the top).
If this is unsuccessful still, you can try selecting by color, using the Magnetic Wand Tool (forth icon in the toolbar, again hold down for all options). Once you are using the magnetic wand tool, you should be able to select all the black areas of the background to delete. You can increase or decrease the tolerance to change the sensitivity of the selection.
Hope this helps!

Help with Refine Edge

I'm trying to use the Refine Edge tool to remove the person in the attached image from the background. I've read some tutorials and watched the Russel Brown Adobe tutorial, though I'm still confused.
I did the following steps:
- I made a loose selection around him
- turned off smart radius
- draged the radius slider all the way to the left
- clicked on the refine radius tool
- drew around the edges of the hair
- refine the edge by dragging shift edge to right
The results do not look good. What am I missing? I'm confused by the refine radius tool? What should I be doing with the refine radius tool? How should I be drawing over the person?
Thanks.

Probably the best advise you can ever get is that from Russell Brown - sorry, Docter Russell Brown that is.
Go to http://www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html and pay special attention to the Masking techniques. You could for instance start with CS5: New Masking Basics / Episode # CS5_008 (scroll down a bit). If you go on and watch his other tutorials on this subject, don't be confused by the phrase Refine Mask, it's the same as Refine Selection.
May you have other questions about PS techniques then you'd better first see the Docter!

Problems with refine edge in CS5-no longer working properly?!

Hi all, just wondered if anyone has experienced this bizarre problem and if so how they went about fixing it or changin the settings! (i may have done something to photoshop for it not to work properly!!!)
Basically, i have got CS5 and was very excited to find the refine edge tool.... made cutting out people real easy and loved it.... however, for some reason the refine edge is not working anymore. Everytime i try to refine the edge using the refine edge tool it isnt selecting any fine details of the cut. It seems to be erasing the image with a low opacity making the selection very blurred?!
Hopefully you can see from the very quickly put together example that the refine edge tool is taking pixels out if her nose, chin, jumper neck and jumper! Any one know how to prevent this from happening?
Thanks! Matt

I am having the same problem with the refine edge tool. It seems to work the exact opposite of what I was expecting.
The above two images are before and after using the tool to refine the edge. As you can see from the picture without the mask view, the selection actually got smaller after I tried to add to it. When I use the other tool to erase an edge, as soon as I release the mouse button, the portion I tried to remove reappears as it was before. This has never worked properly for me. Also, I have tried outputting in several different ways.
As for the questions posed: The app and OS are up to date. I am the only user on my computer, so I'm not sure what using another user would accomplish. I will mention that I'm using Windows 7, not Mac. I'm really hoping there is a setting I have wrong somewhere.

When using the refine edge tool, my image is opposite....rather than the background being transparent...the "subject" is gone...do I have a something set incorrectly?

I used the quick selection tool to outline, then refine edge....
my image does not shoe up in the refine edge window....it is a "mask"..
then when I output to "new layer with layer mask"....my "subject" t is gone...back ground remains...

Thanks for your prompt reply!
this is how the "finished" product looks...this is the image after I select "output to mask"..
It seems "reversed"?

Need help with Refine Edge

Hi,
I have tried it all and cannot say that I can use Refine Edge/Mask successfully. I have seen tutorials in youtube, in lynda.com, etc and they make it look so simple! I keep getting horrible grayish tones in the edge of hair. Please I am desperate. I am attaching a the mask used, the base image and the resulting image and the settings I used in the Refine Edge dialog box. Tell me what I am doing wrong!!
Thanks
Juan Dent

That should be a reasonably easy selection, but I absolutely agree that Refine Edge is not half as intuitive as the tutorials make out. I'll try and give a few hints that will hopefully put you on the right track.
With an image like the above, think in terms of only using the Refine radius brush on the whispy hair, or little items that protrude from the bulk of the selection. Try to get the rest by using just the sliders and Smart Radius.
When using Quick Select, toggle on and off Quick mask to see if you are missing anything. I much prefer to have Quick mask set up with 'Color indicates selected ares' (double click the quick mask icon at the bottom of the tool bar to change this).
If you suspect you will need to fix the result of Refine Edge, chose to output to 'New layer with layer mask'. Add a new layer below that layer, and fill with a bright colour to increas contrast and help with touching up the Layer mask. You can Shift click the layer mask to temporailly turn it off to reveal anomallies.
If you are going to use the selection in another image, then duplicate the new layer with layer mask to that image. That way you can use the Mask Properties panel to refine the mask and fine tune to the new location.
Good luck.

Issues with Refine Edge adjustments

Using CS5, WIN, 64bit, bamboo tablet.
I'm working on hair & after making a selection, I open the refine edge tool & selected brush to tweak the selection. However when I attempt to paint in an area or paint out an area my selection disappears right after I make it. I am including 2 photos in an attempt to demonstrate what's going on. The 1st screen shot may not show it but the settings in place are listed below. The 2nd image shows an area that was selected for additional refinment. What cannot be shown is what took place after the selection was made but, he selection disappears! the 3rd image shows the results. clearly I am NOT doing something right, any advise/recommendations?
VIEW MODE - overlay
EDGE DETECTION - none (no smart radius)
ADJUST EDGE - setting vary
OUT PUT - none selected

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI-9Mr7cLBY
This is a really good tutorial
Message was edited by: fr4nk13xx I did post more but the darn thing crashed for some reason, and I couldn't be bothered to type it all out again

Refine Edge with complex background

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