Regarding soft proofing on Lr4

I am trying to send a photobook created on Lightroom 4 to Blurb for printing.
I was told from Blurb that soft proofing function on Lightroom 4 does not work for them because the color profile is different. What does Adobe recommend to do to match the color space?

I think there is a bit of a misconception here.
Blurb wants the images to be in sRGB color space. In Lr you can softproof to sRGB.
Blurb also provides an icc-profile that can be used to softproof the images. Alas, this icc-profile is a CMYK profile and is not usable in Lr. Lr is RGB-only and doesn't work with any CMYK-profiles. But you can use Blurbs icc-profile for softproofing in Photoshop CSxx.
If you don't have Photoshop CSxx, you can't use Blurbs icc-profile and your only optin is to softproof to sRGB. Since you have to embed sRGB in the photos used in your Blurb book, softproofing to sRGB will give you a good match.
On their website Blurb recommends these steps for Color Management: http://www.blurb.com/guides/color_management/workflow
What they don't mention and possibly the most important thing is that the intensity (brightness) of your monitor is not to high. Some people have complained that their images in the Blurb book are too dark. The reason for this is that their monitors display the images too bright, i.e. brighter than a true representation of the color numbers. But since printers go by the color numbers, you get a darker print.
Make sure that the intensity (brightness) of you rmonitor is set to a value of about 110 cd/m2.
Finally, read this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4360009#4360009
and particularly Andrew Rodneys post (# 11).

Similar Messages

Can I soft proof in LR4 like I can in PS CS5?

I haven't used LR 4 yet, but did view the soft-proofing tutorial.
I applaud Adobe for adding this functionality in LR4. It was one of the most obvious lacking features in the previous version, and I've still been mostly doing all my printing through PS CS5.
While soft-proofing is not a perfect replacement for test printing, I've been mostly satisfied with proofing in CS5.
Proofing in LR4 seems a little different, but by using a virtual copy it looks like if I use my printer/paper profile I should theoretically be able to not only be able to deal with color gamut issues, but also adjust contrast & brightness to more closely match my original developed image, and could compare the original with virtual copy in compare mode. Is it that simple? And if so, why is there a contrast & brightness adjustment in the Print module? That latter adjustment would be similar to what one goes through in PS CS5 when soft-proofing prior to printing. However, why have it if it can be done in the Develop module......and regardless, from the video tutorial it looks like you can't preview the image after making those adjustments in the print module nor compare it with the original......thus forcing one to make multiple prints until the result is satisfactory.
Just seems to me there is a bit more tweaking to do in LR4 to make the soft-proofing more functional. Or, perhaps I'm too stuck with the paradigm set forth for soft-proofing in PS and need someone to clarify how I can achieve the same result in LR just as confidently.

Beaulin Liddell wrote:
BTW, I've benefited immensly from your and Martin's Evenings books.......you've never steered me wrong.
Thanks for the kind words...but LR4's soft proofing is worth the effort to use. It really is better than Photoshop's soft proofing. I'm still on the fence regarding VCs vs Snapshots for soft proofing It's a tossup but the VC part has been built in while making a snapshot wasn't.
The advantage of LR4's soft proofing is you get the ability to do a Before/After while still using the full range of LR4's controls to adjust the printed version. Makes it really easy to nail great print (assuming you have good print profiles).
As for the Print module Brightness and Contradt...that's really a special case that doesn't involved color managed output. It's a crutch for those who don't have a locked down system. It's east to tweak but you have to make example prints since the controls don't actually display but only impact the output. I tend to avoid that.

When Soft Proofing in LR4 most of my loaded printer profiles are not visible

I am running LR4 and CS6 on an HP desktop with 4Gig Ram, Win 7 Home, Profiled Monitor using DataColor
In CS6, all my loaded ICC printer profiles appear when setting up the soft proofing...
In LR4, most of the profiles do not appear...
The problem is that I print to an Epson 7600 CMYK printer with UltraChrome Ink and mostly on Canvas so I need to proof for that environment.
The problem is that I print to an Epson 7600 CMYK printer with UltraChrome Ink and mostly on Canvas so I need to proof for that environment.
Photos of the two different pull downs are attached.

dmcrescent wrote:
Not sure what makes you think the Epson 7600 is a CMYK printer, but it isn't. You may be running a CMYK RIP attached to it, but the printer accepts RGB data, not CMYK. The only reason I can think of needing to profile in CMYK would be if you were using profiles generated for a press. I'm sure there may be others, but can't think of one off the top of my head.
Well you can send either RGB or CMYK to the printer but you have to first setup the proper driver for either. Unless you are proofing (make my Epson simulate a press sheet), I can’t think of any reason to send it CMYK data. The limitation is the driver in terms of what you send it. With a 3rd party driver (might be a RIP, might not) it can be possible to send CMYK data to the Epson. Epson bundles the ColorBurst product for this purpose (press simulation, use of CMYK profiles).
Since the Lightroom path is solely RGB, it can’t do anything with CMYK data. So the profiles are filtered out of the list. And don’t expect this to change anytime soon or ever. If CMYK is your game, well you need Photoshop or some other application to handle this data. And you’ll need another driver. So in context of this post, CMYK is simply not a possibility and that is why the profiles are not accessible.

Regarding SOFT PROOFING:

I almost always use LR5 for prints and on the same printer and paper combination. Should I be doing my whole workflow with Soft Proofing "on"? If not, due to different outputs, doesn't that mean that you must do the entire set of adjustments over for each type of output?

MrScoobydoobee wrote:
I almost always use LR5 for prints and on the same printer and paper combination. Should I be doing my whole workflow with Soft Proofing "on"? If not, due to different outputs, doesn't that mean that you must do the entire set of adjustments over for each type of output?
I would suggest that you do your general LR processing on the basis of what looks good on the screen, as a general-purpose image, prioritising tone and hue that best portray the picture content - the optimum material for your output-specific processing to work on. Softproofing is way too specific for this stage, IMO.
When it then comes to considering a particular output, only then would one (optionally) use softproofing - but LR will automatically generate a proofing (virtual) copy if you change anything while in this mode. You will therefore not be altering the processing of the main image version. This won't get into a "tug-of-love" between the varying requirements of different outputs, but stand apart from those issues.
The specific adjustments you make in response to what softproofing tells you, are insulated within that separate virtual version (which is named with the softproof profile used). This need involve only a small subset of the LR adjustments, you don't need to start from scratch. Perhaps one may add just toning, print aspect ratio crop, and paper-specific tonecurve tweaks over the top of the general-purpose edit; whatever is called for. Maybe even save these into a Develop preset, if they are expected to be re-usable with other images that may undergo the same output.
Then your final LR output can itself apply output sharpening, resampling, output profile etc on the fly, to suit each particular case, regardless whether softproof has been used or not.
RP

Soft proofing LR4

Not all of my RGB profiles which are in my colorsync profiles folder are available for soft proofing in LR4. I've copied and pasted the profiles into my profiles folder. These are Imageprint profiles. I need some help with this. Thanks.

sbradom wrote:
I am on a Mac and I did run my profiles through first aid in colorsync. This did not fix the problem. Hence, they claim that my situation is unique as ALL of their other customes have no problems after running first aid in colorsync. Maybe I should call Adobe....
Got you. Yes, the comment to run em through Profile First Aid seems like a BS answer from them. And no, your situation isn’t unique as I’ve heard this from other CB users. But yes, Adobe needs to figure out why one of their applications works with the profiles and one does not.
If you have other Adobe applications (Acrobat, InDesign) that can access profiles, it would be useful to know if you can see them or not. That could help speed up a fix from Adobe’s end.

LR4: Soft Proofing Batches Of Unique Pictures?

Hi. I was wondering if there is a way to do batch processing for soft proofing different pictures similar to the sync functionality? I created a customer user preset however it seems to copy over the existing settings vs updating the +/-'s in the different areas. For example, I have a bunch of photos from different scenarios, events, actions, times, etc..
When I am soft proofing to a custom profile, looks like I just need to apply a few universal tweaks to WB (+100), exposure (+20, maybe +30), contrast (+10), blacks (-10), and clarity (+10, maybe +15) to get the soft proof copy to look like the master copy. Then I can quickly go through the soft proof copies and check. Is there a way of doing this?
Also, is there a way of creating a soft proof copy of all the pics in the develop module at once?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers,
George

smilingcdn@yahoo wrote:
Andrew and trshaner, thanks for the replies. Andrew, your answers definitely leave the impression that its a challenge to have good quality pics from big box photo labs. I guess this is a chance we choose to take.
I've always gotten very good results from my Costco Photo Center in Ocean, NJ. Post #28 at the link I provided shows tests results I got using sRGB with and without soft proof corrections:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4865815#4865815
smilingcdn@yahoo wrote:
I will need to read more the potential downside by not having the local adjustments not reflected in the global adjustment tools. Not familiar with this yet.
There's no downside as long as you remember that's how you are applying the "additional" corrections to your soft proof copies. If you need to go back and make additional corrections to any of the soft proof copies you can either update the Graduated filter settings or apply a 2nd Graduated filter with those changes.
Just be aware that LR applies the Local Adjustment BEFORE the Global Adjustments. The potential danger is that if you apply controls like +Exposure to an image area that is near 100% highlights you will push the image into clipping. The Global controls will NOT be able to recover the clipped data! The same holds true for an image with deep shadow areas. If you use -Exposure your shadows can become clipped. This applies to use of ANY Local adjustments for ANY purpose, not just soft proof adjustments, so you need to be aware of it at all times.
Since you'll only be making minor color corrections and very moderate tonal corrections to the soft proof images there's very little likelyhood you'll see this issue. For all other usage apply Local settings that REDUCE HIGHLIGHTS and/or RAISE SHADOWS and you won't have a problem.

SRGB or Blurb icc profile better for soft proofing prior to Book module?

As I understand it images destined for Blurb are converted by the Lr engine into sRGB behind the scenes. To achieve best chance of colour accuracy in the finished Blurb book, is it better to softproof using a sRGB profile or the icc profile* offered on the Blurb Support website. On the surface this icc profile is recommended (by them) for their Booksmart process. Anyone know if that is similar to the Lr Book module process? There is no mention of Lr anywhere on the Blurb color management pages.
It would be great to pin down the answer to this. I cannot find any recommendation for best work practice aimed at getting good colour reproduction in these books; and trial and error, whilst acceptable in making inkjet prints, is a very expensive route when applied to printing a Blurb book.
* And even then, as far as I can see, there is no method for differentiating between the Blurb papers. It is just one profile to fit all.

I tried using 'Export Book to PDF' in the LR Book module with 'Book' set to 'Blurb' and the PDF images are all tagged as sRGB profile and 8-bit color.
SUGGESTION
If you set 'Book' to 'PDF' under 'Book Setting' you can use Adobe RGB profile, 300 ppi, and your own Sharpening selection, which as Andrew Rodney mentioned is a better choice. You can submit the LR Exported PDF at Blurb's 'PDF To Book' upload page and they will do the proper CMYK conversion on their end. The only issue is that the images are still exported in the LR Book module as 8-bit color JPEGs. This may cause banding with a wider gamut profile, but that should be apparent when reviewing the exported book PDF.
Here are some comments from Blurb concerning using Blurbs 'PDF to Book' workflow, which is similar to what I just described:
From Me:
My Workflow Details:
My objective is to process all images in LR4 and then export them as 300 dpi, ProPhoto RGB profile, 16 bit TIFF images for layout in InDesign using Blurb's InDesign plugin (Blurb Book Creator CS6 v2.0.2.34d8). I will soft proof the placed images inside InDesign using its 'Proof Colors' tool and the Blurb_ICC_Profile.icc profile. Once the InDesign layout is complete I will do the RGB to CMYK Blurb_ICC_Profile conversion during the export to PDF process using the Blurb PDF X-3 Export Preset v1-1.
Blurb's Resonse:
Response Via Email(David) - 07/18/2012
Using InDesign and our Blurb InDesign Plug-in does mean you're using the PDF to Book Workflow. This is because your InDesign files will ultimately be exported/uploaded as PDF files.
Regarding, "Once the InDesign layout is complete I would like to do the RGB to CMYK Blurb_ICC_Profile conversion during the export to PDF process":
Unfortunately, there is no option for this and it's actually unnecessary during the export process. Our printers convert and process all images as CMYK using the Blurb ICC Color Profile, so even if you upload/export them with an RGB color profile, they'll be converted to CMYK for the production process.
My Response:
Customer By Email - 07/19/2012 05:10 AM Thanks for the explanation David. It sounds like I can just upload the PDF file using my ProPhoto RGB profiled PDF, but I would prefer to do the conversion from ProPhoto RGB to Blurb ICC CMYK profile. This way I can see the results before uploading the file to Blurb. Can I use the Blurb PDF X-3 Export Preset v1-1 with Output > Color Conversion to Destination > Blurb CC profile, and then upload the PDF file myself? If so please advise where I should upload the file on the Blurb website.
Blurb's Response:
Response Via Email(David) - 07/20/2012 03:49 PM Hi Todd,
If you do end up exporting your PDFs with the workflow you're referring to, you can upload your files here:
http://www.blurb.com/make/pdf_to_book
IMHO there's no reason why Adobe and Blurb couldn't work together so ProPhoto RGB 16-bit images can be used in the book PDF that gets uploaded (or exported!) to Blurb's website. Blurb then handles the CMYK conversion using full-gamut 16-bit images and not clipped sRGB 8-bit images.

Is It Possible to Save a Soft-Proofed File?

Let's assume that I have an image, foo.psd, open in PSCS4. I softproof the image for a particular paper and printer. When I hit Ctrl-Y, the image is shown in softproof mode, and the softproofing info is appended to the image name in the PSCS4 window. Is there any way to save a copy of foo.psd with the soft proofing applied, i.e. foo-softproof.psd?
Reed

Reed,
a print looks often different to the monitor. Quite normal
- many monitor colors cannot be printed.
They are out-of gamut for the printing CMYK space.
The RGB image data are converted via the RGB profile
to Lab, which is large enough to represent real world
photos without loss.
From Lab the data are converted to CMYK via the CMYK
profile. Here is loss because of the smaller gamut.
The colors have to be mapped from the larger RGB gamut
into the smaller CMYK gamut. This can be done
a) automatically by Rendering Intent Relative Colorimetric:
in-gamut colors are not changed. Out-of-gamut colors
are mapped to the gamut boundary; this process isn't
accurately defined by standards.
b) automatically by Rendering Intent Perceptual:
all colors - even those which were in-gamut - are
shifted towards the gray axis. This process depends
very much on the scientist or programmer and is nowhere
defined by standards.
So far one doesn't need human interaction, but the results
are not always pleasing. The third and optimal method is
c) image based gamut compression. Reduce the saturation
and eventually rotate the hue in regions which are out-
of-gamut until Photoshop's Proof Color Gamut Warning
doesn't show larger out-of-gamut areas.
Gamut compression algorithms and the color science behind
are explained in this excellent book:
Jan Morovic (accents omitted)
Color Gamut Mapping
John Wiley & Sons, 2008
Manual image based gamut compression is demonstrated here
by many examples (but it's called 'Editing in Lab'):
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/labproof15092008.pdf
Attention: 3.4 MBytes.
Chapter 9 shows visualized gamut boundaries for several
color spaces.
IMO you're seeking the impossible (if I'm understanding
you correctly).
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Colors in print preview not matching colors in soft proofing

Hi There,
Just wanted to print a new photo and realized that the colors in print preview do not match the colors in soft proofing. In both cases I selected the same icc profile and rendering method. The print colors matched the colors in print preview. I never had a problem so far. All new prints will be checked with soft proofing and adjusted when necessary. I never paid attention to the color rendition in print preview and all prints perfectly matched the colors from the soft proofing. I was surprised when my print came out of the printer and the colors weren't matching the soft proofing colors, but that of the print preview.
I don't understand why Photoshop renders the colors differently in the first place. Please see attached screenshot for the difference in the blue/cyan colors.
I would appreciate if anybody could point me in the right direction in what is causing this difference. I don't care if the print view colors will match the print, but I do care when soft proofing is not working.
Thank you.
Best regards,
D.

Here are some addtional details:
PS 13.1.2
Mac OS X 10.8.4
12 GB Ram
60 GB free disk space
I printed the same photo from two other computers (MacBook and iMac) with different PS versions (CS4 and CS5). The prints turned out identical to the first one which matches the print preview color rendition on my main computer (MacPro) running CS6. Strangely the colors in print preview of CS5 on the iMac renders the colors identical to the soft proofing colors.

Soft Proof in LR: Put it in LR!

I must have (like that, must have?) soft proofing abilities in LR if I am going to be able to use LR for preparing images for printing.
Cheers

Soft-proof was first introduced in LR4. You can download the free trial to see if it's what you hoping for. I don't use it so I don't know much but from what I've heard you can only proof RGB profile but not CMKY. Hope this help.

Soft Proofing: may not work on my screen

First of all: Thanks so much for implementing soft proofing! Especially in such an easy way! I was really hoping you'd do it exactly like that.
Anyway, I've got a wide gamut monitor (Thinkpad W520 laptop screen). And I've got an image with a lot of strongly saturated reds (PowerShot S95, RAW).
Now, if I switch between Loup View and Develop View, I can see a huge difference in the reds because the Loup preview is sRGB (medium quality). I can also see the same difference when exporting to sRGB vs. exporting to AdobeRGB.
However, if I engage soft proofing and select sRGB, the image still looks the same. Only the little preview in the upper left changes to what I would expect.
That's not exactly what I would expect ^^
On the other hand, if I select a custom profile (AdoramaPix, lustre paper), the whole rig seems to work.
More information:
- Windows 7, 64 bit with 64 LR4 beta
- Whether relative or perceptual doesn't matter
- Only seems to affect sRGB
- The image shows very, very clear differences between sRGB and AdobeRGB on my monitor, so it's definitely not a visual problem on my end
- The histogram changes when switching between sRGB and AdobeRGB in soft proofing mode
- I really cannot see the slightest change in the image when switching
I hope you can find a fix or point out what I'm doing wrong because I would really like to use soft proofing for images published on the web, which is of course in sRGB.

I went on about this a little more scientific by creating an image with three rectangles: red, blue and green.
All of them are 100%, e.g. (255, 0, 0). Colorspace: ProPhoto RGB.
Results when exporting the images to AdobeRGB and sRGB, concentrating on the reds:
- sRGB looks very washed out
- AdobeRGB looks a bit washed out
- Original ProPhoto has so much red that it almost drives me nuts
Now, I would really expect similar results when activiating soft proofing.
But when selecting either AdobeRGB or sRGB, the reds always drive me nuts.
There is just no difference at all to the original ProPhoto image!
Conclusion 1: Dorin, you were right, previews are in AdobeRGB. What I saw in the reds was the difference between ProPhoto and AdobeRGB. Somehow my screen seems to have extreme reds (calibrated recently with an X-Rite ColorMunki Display).
Conclusion 2: Soft proofing with AdobeRGB and sRGB really DOES NOT WORK!

Stuck in soft proofing

I am working in LR4 with soft proof. I set up a photo but somehow got "caught" on the screen in the Develop module. My photo is on the screen after working with it, but I cannot budge it and when I go to print it thr Print module is blank and I cannot print the photo. How can I get out of this bind?

Thank you for your quick reply. I have looked at forums but never joined
one until now. I just upgraded to LR4 and had to try soft proofing. I got
through the the process to the final print in the develop module, but when
I tried to go to the print module it was empty of the usual setup info. The
photo just sits there on a gray page that seems to be on top of the
regular.window. the page says Page 1of1,Paper Letter, Printer: Epson
Stylus. On the top and on the side of the window are rulers showing the
8x10 print. On the left top side of the window is a small printer graphic
and the word Print. I press it but nothing happens. I am in the Print
module at this point, but no info is in the printer info area on the right
side.so I cannot print. Of course I turned the PC off and on again to no
avail. I also removed and reinstalled LR4 all over. No luck. I can use
every other feature on LR4 and process prints regularly, but I cannot print
them. The only thing in the Print module is this photo sitting there with
no place to go.

Can You Soft Proof Your Faxes? Cover Sheet?

I've come across instructions on FAXing that say I should be able to Soft Proof or Preview my FAXes before sending them, even seeing my cover page. I think the info was good for Panther. I am running 10.4.11 and I can't seem to do that -- but then, my Completed FAXes button is greyed-out, so I don't know if it is me and my machine that is the problem, or if this is functionality that was lost along the way. Can other Tigers Preview/Soft Proof FAXes?

Looks like I can get a Preview of the file I am faxing, but I don't see a preview of my cover sheet.
Here is a way to see some information about your completed fax jobs:
http://127.0.0.1:631/printers/Internal_Modem
Tiger's faxing support does seem to be somewhat sketchy to say the least!
Regards,
Steve M.

Soft Proofing Alterations Happen on Original aswell as Virtual (Proof) Image

When soft proofing, I split the image horizontally and then create proof image when asked after making first alteration.
However, in both LR4.4 and 5Beta, both the original and virtual (i.e., proofing image) change.
Example. Have l Brightness value of 55 in original. Proofed image is duller. Increase brightness in proof by 10 to match original. (Figures are just for explanation) Now when I compare images again, original image brightnesss has increased by 10 also. This can be seen, of course, on the Develop panel.
Obviously, proofing won't now work properly, I think.
What is wrong here?

After you make a develop-change in <Softproof> you should get a dialog box that gives tyou three options:
<Undo> - <Make This a Proof> - <Create Proof Copy>.
Are you selecting <Create proof Copy>?
Only then a Virtual Copy is created that shows the altered state while the original remains without the alteration.
If you select <Make This a Proof> the original image will be changed.

Beta 4 Soft Proofing

I’m getting results from Soft Proofing I don’t understand and can’t find any reference to anywhere.
With different ink/paper/printer combinations and different Relative/Perceptual combinations, I get the following results when selecting “Destination Gamut Warning.”
Yellow border: Purple Out of Gamut
Yellow border: Red Out of Gamut
Yellow border: Yellow Out of Gamut
White border: Red Out of Gamut
Does anyone know what these differences mean?
Wil

During the beta period, please post LR4-specific questions in the LR4-specific forum:
http://forums.adobe.com/community/labs/lightroom4

Regarding soft proofing on Lr4

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