Replacing nvidia with ati in first gen mac pro

posted this in the using osx forum but realized this might be a better
place for this issue.
i'm debugging a problem system, a first gen mac pro, that has a 7300gt
in it. i also have a second gen mac pro that has no problems. i've
made many changes to the problem system and am coming down to my last
couple of options, one of which is swapping graphics cards. the problem
system is running an nvidia card, the problem-free box is running an ati
card. maybe a driver conflict in the nvidia driver?
the issue is that, on boot, my external sata box hangs when recognizing
the box's four channels. this does not happen on the second gen mac pro.
i'm down to the last three things:
graphics chipset differences
logic board differences between first, second gen
osx 10.4 vs osx 10.5
i'm now testing the graphics card as a possible solution. i've gotten
conflicting reports as to what graphics cards might work with a first
gen mac pro still running 10.4.11.
a tech told me that the 2600xt i have in my second gen will not work
in the first gen. on the other hand, someone here said they were using
one. will the 10.4.11 system have any necessary drivers for this card?
also, the 3870 has been recommended. i've also thought about the 4870.
i've also seen a lot of discussion about driver problems (that they're
unavailable) with regard to the 4870, that the drivers would be included
in a 10.5.7 update. if these drivers won't be available until 10.5.7,
it would seem i should stay away from the 4870 for now. but what about
the 3870? will my 10.4.11 system be able to use this card?
any info much appreciated,
BabaG

Trial and error, creative troubleshooting.
Take that one 4-drive RAID across two channels. What happens if all four are on the same channel? what if the firmware - there is firmware for the case, right?
Does Norco offer replacement PSUs?
Convert the Apple RAID to SoftRAID (I'd do that regardless anyway).
http://www.softraid.com
AND, their support people have helped me with multiple problems, even to help pin-point the er, "culprit" even when it was controller or drive (one vendor blamed Maxtor Atlas drive, then blamed Apple, we came out though showing it was their firmware on their controller card, and a new firmware was released 3 months later - it took me and SoftRAID weeks to nail it.
Some drives have delayed or staggered spinup, some do not. And some are optimized for RAID. You don't want to use drives that are not. And you want to test each drive before it is put into production (I would give a drive a week of testing before using any drive today).
Remember where SCSI controllers would also list what drives that they had certified for use with, and were known to work with? or which were not? You don't see that as much, but some do.
AMUG mentioned using the DS1220 with Sonnet Tempo E4P I think. Sonnet has their own line of rack mount storage. Get them in on the discussion. Try their controller after asking (Niel) what he thinks and knows about Norco.
You don't mention what you use or have done, but swapping out controllers, and having a spare or backup is often helpful. Even a "given."
Put a good watt meter (if it logs all the better) to see what kind of current draw or peak inrush your setup exhibit. Put the Mac and the storage rack on separate UPS, either APC SMART or RS800VA, and line conditioner (ZeroSurge).
12 x 25W and I'd probably want as large a PSU and high efficiency unit.

Similar Messages

Where can high-power video cards be installed on a first-gen Mac Pro?

I have a first-gen Mac Pro with a Radeon X1900 XT in Slot-1 and a Geforce 7300 GT in Slot-4. The x1900 XT powers a 30" monitor and the 7300GT powers 2 x 20" monitors. The 7300GT card died and is being replaced with an 8800 GT.
Now it seems fairly obvious that for gaming the 8800 GT is superior to my X1900 XT. Ideally I'd like to just throw my new 8800 GT in Slot-1 and use it for my 30" monitor and then run the 2 20's off the X1900 XT in Slot-4. The problem with that is that the x1900 XT is a huge card and physically won't fit in Slot-4 because it runs in to the hard drives above it.
*Now, on to the questions / clarification:*
_Question 1_: Is the first-gen Mac Pro the same as the new Mac Pro in that high-power cards can only be used in Slot-1 and Slot-2? If so, why does it come in the standard configuration of:
Slot-1: x16
Slot-2: x1
Slot-3: x1
Slot-4: x8
It would seem that Apple purposely did this so you would run 2 high-power cards in Slot-1 and Slot-4 and keep them away from each other for heat reasons. The new Mac Pro has x16 bandwidth on Slot-1 and Slot-2 and it would make sense why they say to only install high-power cards in Slot-1 and Slot-2 for it.
_Question 2_: PCI-e configurations. There are a few ways I could tweak the configuration of the expansion slots to make this setup work. I'm curious as to which you would think is best:
*Option 1 (default PCI-e config, only works if a high-power card can be installed in slot 4):*
Slot-1: x16 - Radeon X1900 XT - 2 x 20" monitors for minor tasks / programs
Slot-2: x1
Slot-3: x1
Slot-4: x8 - GeForce 8800 GT - 30" monitor for major tasks / gaming
Now, the first issue is can the 8800 even run in Slot-4 due to the supposed power problem? If so, would there be a difference in performance for gaming at x8? I know this is backwards because you'd want the "primary" card to run on x16 but that's just not possible with this PCI-e configuration. If there is a difference in performance would an 8800 GT at x8 still run significantly faster in games than an X1900 XT a x16? I'd think so, but that's assuming the x8 isn't a real bottleneck.
*Option 2 (the only solution if the cards have to be installed in the first 2 slots):*
Slot-1: x8 - GeForce 8800 GT - 30" monitor for major tasks / gaming
Slot-2: x8 - Radeon X1900 XT - 2 x 20" monitors for minor tasks / programs
Slot-3: x4
Slot-4: x4
You still have the issue of the 8800 only running at x8 (if it even makes a difference, not sure). The benefit I see here is that instead of the X1900 XT dumping all of it's heat in to the 8800 GT (since heat rises) you have the 8800 GT on the bottom where it might run cooler. The X1900 XT would then also be limited to x8 but it's not even being used for gaming so it wouldn't matter at all. The X1900 XT is huge and would cover up Slot-3 but I don't use the other 2 slots so I don't mind.
*Option 3 (only works if Slot-3 can actually power an X1900 XT):*
Slot-1: x16 - GeForce 8800 GT - 30" monitor for major tasks / gaming
Slot-2: x1
Slot-3: x4 - Radeon X1900 XT - 2 x 20" monitors for minor tasks / programs
Slot-4: x4
This seems ideal only because this is the only setup that can get the 8800 to run at x16. The issue now is can Slot-3 run a high-power card? The card doesn't really NEED the power since it's just for running basic apps and not gaming. Again, the X1900 would cover up Slot-4 but it's not being used so no worries there.
*At the end of the day, the most important thing to figure out is:* where can high-power cards be installed in a first-gen mac pro? Once we know that we can figure out Question 2. The instructions that come with the 8800 GT say it can be installed in any of the 4 slots, but I don't know if I really believe that.
Thanks in advance for your help!

Thanks for your help, I think we've beat this horse to death :P. I'm glad I got it all figured out though.
Now the only question is if the gaming performance of the 8800 is actually enough better than the X1900 to warrant making it my "primary" video card. As long as Adobe CS3 apps don't rely on core image like some of the Apple Pro apps do I think it will be fine. If they do I'd have to probably just stick with the X1900 since I use CS3 every single day and only play video games once a week if I'm lucky.
What are your thoughts on the X1900 vs the 8800 GT for CS3?
Edit: This just occurred to me... Since I'm going to have to run them as x8, x8, x4, x4 there isn't really going to be a "primary" card since neither will be at 16x. I guess I could technically just plug my 30" monitor in to either one of them depending on what I feel like doing. If I'm going to play a game I just plug in to the 8800 and if I'm working I plug in to the 1900. The computer is up on the desk so moving the monitor from one card to the other takes about 10 seconds. I could just plug 1 20" monitor in to each so there's always a free DVI port on either one.
It's not the most elegant but I guess it would be a good compromise if I wanted the "best" performance in either situation. I realize the Radeon 3870 is probably the best of both worlds but I really don't want the noise. I already modified my 1900 with this after 6 months of listening to the lawn mower that was the stock 1900 cooler: http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=147
I'm just hoping the 8800 isn't too loud .

Ugrade first gen mac pro graphics card

I have a first Gen Mac Pro and want to upgrade the graphics card for better performance with programs like C4D and After Effects....any recomendations?

The graphics card can't be upgraded. It is soldered to the logic board. Unless you actually mean a Mac Pro desktop as opposed to a MacBook Pro, in which case I know nothing about Mac Pros.

What happened to the 8800 GT upgrade cards for the first-gen Mac Pro?

I have a first-gen Mac Pro (System Profiler says model identifier is "MacPro2,1" which I think still makes it a first-gen model), and I was considering upgrading to the 8800 GT so I could take advantage of OpenCL, since the 7300 GT I have is not supported, according to Apple's page. ( http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html )
However, I can't seem to find the card anywhere on Apple's store site, or anywhere else, for that matter. Does anyone know what happened? Can I still buy the 8800 GT for my Mac Pro? If not, what OpenCL-compatible card can I upgrade to? Apple only seems to have the ATI X1900 XT in their store.
Thanks in advance for any advice!

{quote:title=Malcolm Rayfield wrote:}
ATI Radeon HD 4870 (Despite what Apple says, it works in any Mac Pro.)
<http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB999ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=NDE4NDMxOA>
Have you done it, or know someone that has put it in a 1st gen Mac Pro?
I'm just double checking so I don't waste my time.
Message was edited by: JeffDM2

MacBook Pro i5 vs First Gen Mac Pro

I have a first generation Mac Pro, 2 x 2.66 Ghz as well as a Mac Book Pro, 2.2 Intel Core 2 Duo. I was thinking about selling both of them and consolidating to a new MacBook Pro i5. Will the new MBP i5's performance be equal to or exceed my current Mac Pro?

Ok, it looks like the MacBook Pro i7 does generally out perform the first generation Mac Pro.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4374/geekbench.jpg
Looks like I'll be getting the i7.

FIRST GEN MAC PRO AND THE 8800GT

I am just about to press the BUY NOW button.
will the 8800gt upgrade kit work on my mac pro?
Pretty sure is was bought in 2007
the spec is:
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro1,1
Processor Name: Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
Memory: 5 GB
Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP11.005C.B08
SMC Version: 1.7f10
Also...
When they say upgrade kit - it is just a standalone card right?
I don't need any other card to work with this?
Thanks Dan
ps - sorry for being a total tech novice

Re the statement in Barefeats' 2600 vs 8800 test that the latter's 3D advantage should also apply when used in pro apps using OpenGL (like After Effects preview), there are those who claim frame rate is mainly a result of the amount of RAM installed and not the video card used:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/919134 (older article though).
Then there is the finding by Barefeats - much to 8800 users' irritation/confusion - that the 8800 is not great at pro applications (that's the Harper10 link Hatter included).
I can only say I'm real happy with the 8800 and that it hasn't let me down once so far.
Here are some further links:
http://www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/systemreqs/
http://www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/opengl.html
/p
Cinema 4D was just recently updated btw: http://www.maxon.net/pages/dynfiles/dyn_htx/htx/2400/0240002401.html
Message was edited by: pullman

Can you have 2 ATI 3870 cards in a 1st gen Mac pro

I have a first gen Mac pro my system specs is 2 x 2.66 Ghz Dual Core Xeon. I was wondering if its possible to install 2 graphics. Does anyone have any information on if this is possible and if so can you get cross fire to work on the pc side for gaming.

Yes you can. I have a 1st Gen Mac Pro with 2 ATI 3870s and crossfire mode when I run Windows with Bootcamp.
On the mac side install the drivers BEFORE you put the hardware in.
Install them in the two lower pcie slots and connect them with both crossfire cables. You have to go into the expansion slot utility (HD>System>Library>CoreServices>Expansion Slot Utility) and change the configuration of the two lower slots (slots 1 & 2) to be 8 lanes each.
In bootcamp: After you physically install the cards you need to remove all current gpu drivers from Windows and then install the new drivers for the 3870s.
I just did this myself not even a month ago after several days of frustration of trying to make it work. The key is to make sure the pcie slots are both equal at 8 lanes. Nothing worked until I did that.
Works great but is quite loud. I'm looking into passive cooling systems now...

8800 GT crapped out, 1st-gen Mac Pro

When I tried to turn on Mac Pro today, the monitor didn't appear to be receiving any video, and the fan on my GPU was at full speed without stopping. The computer otherwise seemed to be working fine (startup sound played, could hear hard drives working). I ruled out the monitor as the issue, and upon replacing the Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT with an old ATI X1900 XT I had lying around, the computer started working fine. The ATI was the original card that came with the Mac, which I replaced with the Nvidia about 3 years ago.
The problem now is that I need a replacement for the 8800GT. Unfortunately, I have a first-gen Mac Pro (2006) and my warranty ran out, so a free repair is not likely. I called the local Apple store, who forwarded me to Apple support, who told me that Apple doesn't have any 1st-gen Mac Pro compatible 8800s lying around. They suggested I check Newegg, but after some time trying to struggle through the site I don't believe they have any either.
So, I guess my question is, what now? My Mac functions fine with the X1900XT, but the reason the card was replaced was because it performed terribly, overheated often, and had artifact issues, so I'd rather not keep it.
This is my first experience trying to replace hardware out of warranty, and coming from PCs it's hard to imagine there are no replacements out there. Do I have to live with the ATI, or does anyone know if/where I can find a replacement 8800?
I have a MacPro1,1, dual Intel Xeon 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, latest version of Mac OS X.

BTW, 9.5 Minutes in a 425F oven has about 50/50 odds of reviving your 8800GT. You need to remove fan first. There are multiple "how tos" on web. I have done this with MANY 8800GTs and can report odds really are about 50% that card can resume normal life.
Issue was early Lead Free solder.

Confused about upgrading Video card on 1st Gen Mac Pro

When looking in the Apple store under video cards it looks like the 8800 or even the ati 2600xt say :
PCI Express 2.0 but under the reviews for the ati card there are a few posts that say they used this card to upgrade their '06 ' and '07 Mac Pro from the Nvidia 7300 ...
But if the older Mac Pro's dont have pci express 2.0 how can this be ?
I also have read that a nvidia 8800 for the 1st gen mac pro may come out but what if it does not ? Whats the deal ? Will there be a video upgrade path for the 1st gen mac pro or not ?
Why are we being " left out " in the cold for buying a machine a year and a half ago ?
So basically there is the 7300 or the ati 1900 and thats it for the 1st gen mac pro's ?
Even my 4 year old PC has video options and its agp !

If you are bored you might be able to find an early post of mine from the early MacPro days when I commented that MacPro buyers should only buy if they can live with never being to upgrade the graphics card. Apple is Apple and if you know the history of Apple you know that graphics cards are all but ignored. I remain hopeful that Apple, through nVidia, comes out with an 8800 for older Mac Pros, but I don't count on it. The MacPro line has glaring strengths and glaring weaknesses and the dearth of video cards is a glaring weakness. Still better a MacPro with this weakness than a PC box, but with no official word from Apple and all this expectation from a single comment by an nVidia PR person (PR for gosh sakes!), I don't find the rumor to be terribly credible. Hope I'm wrong. Very much so. Hope the oft quoted email by steve j. regarding it being looked at is on the money and we have an announcement tomorrow. Holding my breath till then....

Well its been about 7 weeks - Any news on a 8800Gt for 1st gen Mac Pro's ?

It was January when the masses were pacified with the announcement of a 8800gt card for us old timers - you know those super out of date , non-upgradeable video 1st mac pro's .....
Why are we being ' dead ended ' like this on video ? The 7300 and 1900 are not at all ' modern ' video cards - why are we being treated like this ? Did we do something wrong ? Did not enough people buy the first gen mac pro ? I the first gen mac pro so under engineered it cant handle the 8800gt or ati2600 ? (2600 is not officially supported by Apple for older mac pro's) ....
Why did my Mac Pro have slots ? Next time just solder the video on ... because thats what I feel like you did to me Apple...... Thanks alot....

+1 for that. Just looking for the answer to two things: will the 8800GT upgrade be available -- as promised -- for 1st generation Mac Pros; if so, what's the ETA?

Nvidia 8800GT video card in the First Generation Mac Pro

This message is a bit of advice if you install the new Nvidia 8800GT video card in the first generation Mac Pro. The advice is keep your old video card. The old video card will be needed if you ever need to reinstall the OS X operating system. This new card needs the video drivers (kernel extensions) that are in OS X leopard 10.5.2 or later. With this video card installed, both the OS X original installation disk that came with this computer and the OS X leopard upgrade disks will cause a kernel panic when booted up. This is because they do not contain the kernel extensions needed for this video card. There is a question. Does anyone know how to create and burn a reinstallation DVD with OS X leopard version 10.5.2 on it? This would help solve this reinstallation problem

this is a advisory to whom it may concern
here my latest reply from a apple product specialist how was very good and helpful but only
give me this to my upgrade answer !
i want to upgrade my graphic card to 8800 and run tiger on my 1st gen macpro
here it goes:
"This article indicates what cards are supported in what machines: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305346
Your Mac Pro is the first generation, and did not have PCI-Express 2.0 slot like the current generation does have.
Unfortunately, we don't foresee the release of any drivers for the 10.4 OS on this machine.
In regards to the second issue, we also don't support two video cards in two slots, using a different one for eash OS, there is no supported way to do this."
"Unfortunately, the latest version of the Mac Pro will not run Tiger, as it was manufactured after the release of Leopard, therefore the drivers for the machines hardware will not be available on Tiger."
hope thats cleared some ones Q.
kindly
S.

Buying a 1st Gen Mac Pro nVidia GeForce 8800 GT 512MB from Applemacanix...

_*Hi to All:_*
_First of all thanks for taking the time to read my post._
I am going to buy a 1st Gen Mac Pro nVidia GeForce 8800 GT 512MB Video Card from ebay to applemacanix, it looks like they give good service and I wont recive a bad product but I wannt to know from mac user what they think about this ebay user? I put the link [here|http://cgi.ebay.com/1st-Gen-Mac-Pro-nVidia-GeForce-8800-GT-512MB-Video-Ca rdW0QQitemZ270514929671QQcategoryZ3762QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparm sZalgo=DLSL%2BSIC&its=I%2BC&itu=UCI%2BIA%2BUA%2BFICS%2BUFI%2BDDSIC&otn=20&po=&ps =63&clkid=8899382923051298334#ht_5840wt1167]
Second I wannted to know what you think about the card? Has it worked ok for you? Any strange issue I should be aware?
Thanks in advance
Message was edited by: Chocorito

Applemecanix are the Microsoft of card flashers.
There are at least 5 other flashers on Ebay who will sell you the EXACT same card, with the EXACT same ROM flashed on it for around $100 less.
For that matter, a little time on MacRumours and you could figure out how to make one yourself for $200 less.
However, if you have money to burn, by all means give it to them.

What displays WILL work with 1st gen Mac Pro & 4870 video card upgrade?

I've been reading these discussion threads for hours.
I, like so many others, have a 1st gen Mac Pro with a 1900XT that is taking a dump on me.
My only/best option for replacing it is the 4870...
But SO many folks with 3rd party displays have had problems, though almost no one is commenting on which 3rd party displays DO work.
Can anyone help? Do you have this configuration and a 3rd party display that IS working?
I don't want to buy this card and find out I have to shell out another ton of $$$ to buy Cinema Display.
I have an LG Flatron Wide...
Can anyone confirm a 3rd party display that DOES work? I'd be VERY grateful!

I have the Acer 24". been fine for 18 months. I know several people using them

A few questions with SL & 1st gen Mac Pro

Hey everyone. I just got Snow Leopard for Christmas and I've installed it on my harddrive. (I have the latest update as well now) The problem I'm seeing is my EFI is 32bit. I can't boot into 64 bit mode. Is there a firmware or something I can type into the Terminal to put it in 64bit mode? I see all my apps are 64bit in the Activity Monitor. Is it hopeless for me to think I can run in full 64bit mode on my 1st gen Mac Pro? Also, I've noticed to that when I double click on an icon it doesn't open until I double click it 3-4 times and it becomes frustrating. And where is my "Mac HD" in the top right hand corner that I'm used to seeing??? Anyway, any help would be great. Thanks.

airwolfhelicopter wrote:
Hey everyone. I just got Snow Leopard for Christmas and I've installed it on my harddrive. (I have the latest update as well now) The problem I'm seeing is my EFI is 32bit. I can't boot into 64 bit mode. Is there a firmware or something I can type into the Terminal to put it in 64bit mode?
no, your mac is not capable of booting in 64-bit mode.
I see all my apps are 64bit in the Activity Monitor. Is it hopeless for me to think I can run in full 64bit mode on my 1st gen Mac Pro?
yes. but you are not missing much. you still run all 64-bit apps as 64-bit. only the kernel is 32-bit. to get actual advantage of 64-bit kernel you need loads of RAM (more than 8GB) and some 64-bit apps that are optimized to take advantage of a lot of RAM and have actual need to do it.
Also, I've noticed to that when I double click on an icon it doesn't open until I double click it 3-4 times and it becomes frustrating. And where is my "Mac HD" in the top right hand corner that I'm used to seeing???
go to finder preferences->general and check the box to show hard drives on the desktop.
Anyway, any help would be great. Thanks.

Need advice on Video card for my 1st Gen Mac Pro 667ghz

OK, I'm getting frustrated because I can't seem to find a card to replace my now failing NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT. I was thinking of buying the ATI 4870 but I saw that it needed 800ghz and my Mac Pro has 667ghz..
What are my options? ;-(

The graphics card doesn't care about your memory bus speed. The ATI 4870 will work in any Mac Pro.
<http://www.barefeats.com/nehal05.html>
"As with the Radeon HD 3870 and HD 2600, ATI included both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in the ROM, so it should work in all models of Mac Pro with the latest drivers. We installed in the Clovertown first generation 8-core Mac Pro (as you can see from the graphs above) and a close colleague installed it in a 2.66GHz Woodcrest 4-core first generation Mac Pro. As long as you have two power feeds for the card in your first generation Mac Pro and have the correct drivers properly installed, it should work fine."

Replacing nvidia with ati in first gen mac pro

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