Reverse Telecine and Temporal Compression

I'm currently editing on a FCP (5.1.4) 23.97fps timeline and have some secondary footage from a canon HV20 that I'd like to use as well. It's already captured, and I want to use a reverse telecine transfer so I can import it to my timeline conformed at the proper rate.
I tried using cinema tools (3) to perform this; first by importing just one clip, but the "rev telecine..." button couldn't be selected, so I tried to batch reverse telecine the clip but was given the error message 'temporal compression'.
I am sure that the footage captured on the HV20 was with the 24 option, so I'm not sure why I'm having and issue. Any advice would be appreciated. The more step-by-step the better.
Thanks!

With Final Cut 5 you need to use Cinema tools after converting every clip to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). This is a manual process that you must repeat for each clip. Each time you start and stop the HV20 recording you get a separate clip so if you did a lot of starting and stopping you'll be busy for a while. I did this process as an exercise more than a year ago and was successful but I don't recall the details. I did a Google search for "reverse telecine HV20" and found this article http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/07/working-with-24p-from-canon-hv20.html
I think I found my method on the Canon HV20 forum http://dvinfo.net/conf/canon-vixia-hv40-hv30-hv20-hv10/ back then.
I'm not sure but I think you may need to recapture your footage using the 60i setting in Final Cut. I don't know what Final Cut does to 60i footage captured using the 23.98 setting. You might just be able to change the setting to 29.97 on the captured clips. Worth a try maybe.
Good luck.

Similar Messages

  • Reverse telecine and final cut

    hi. hope the gurus can help.
    we shot a short with dvx 100a. we shot on 24p (NORMAL). I am trying to create a 23.98 workflow for the video. all the footage was captured in DV NTSC, and used cinema tools to Reverse Telecine. here come the issues: how do I know which "capture mode" the DVX uses? also which "Style." I tried different settings, and the strange part is that some settings work for some clips while others work for other clips, even though all clips were captured the same way. when i say worked, i mean some showed obvious "flicker" or "ghosting" and some were fantastic. all this on a 23.98 timeline in FCP.
    please help,
    thanks
    liron

    when i look at the counter on the original tape, how
    would i be able to tell if it was shot in 24p or any
    other settings?
    yep, it's not in the manual and i found this one day long ago when i got my dvx just after they were first released: open the lcd and on the bottom towards the lens there is the counter button. with the camera in vtr mode and playing the tape, toggle that counter button and you'll get a wealth of info including what framerate the video was shot with.
    as for the reverse telecine, how can one determine
    what "capture mode" was used? apple suggests a burned
    tc, but i do not have that off the dvx.
    dude, as far as a reverse telecine, that is determined by which mode was used to photograph with the camera. with fcp 4 you only use cinema tools for 24p standard video but i understand with the latest version of cinema tools you can use for 24P and 24PA, but i've not tried this.
    i'd advise you to do a little research. the fcp production studio has a great appendix on 24p material and also go here http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html and here http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
    good luck.

  • Reverse telecine problems with 24pA setting

    Just bought a sony v1u and shot with the 24pA setting. i brought it into FCP with the 1080i60 Easy Setup. Dragged the source file into cinematools to get the reverse telecine and it is grayed out. When i tried a batch reverse telecine, it said something about temporal compression and error. any ideas?

    I don't believe you can use Cinema Tools to Reverse Telecine HDV material...
    Patrick

  • Reverse Telecine affecting identical clips different ways

    I haven't a clue on how to begin searching for this.
    I recently had a problem trying to get my Sony HZ5U 24p footage to true 24p instead of 30. It was causing big confusion in Color, blending frames together. Even though I placed the footage in a 24p sequence, it would just frames in unnecessary spots. And Reverse Telecine wouldn't work on footage imported by HDV - 720p24.
    I was able to import to HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24, Reverse Telecine, and add the clips into a HDV- 720p24 sequence to get the resolution I need...
    Except there's a problem.
    Something isn't working when I reverse telecine.
    The clips I imported were all 2:3, two frames of the same then three others that were individual.
    I "reversed" two clips which came out to 1:1 (I guess), no frames are duplicated. But a few of the clips I reversed came out to 2:2! There are two frames of the same then two others that are individual.
    I'm not sure what is wrong. I didn't import with a different setting, I didn't change anything in Final Cut, I didn't adjust anything in Cinema Tools. I never filmed in a separate format...
    I have a consistent segment I have to make each week for a program, and it's done this for the past three weeks. And on one of the clips (either the one with 1:1 or 2:2) after I send back from Color the audio is shifted off a few frames.
    Why would Reverse Telecine give me different results in the same operation of the same format of video??

    remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

  • Reverse Telecine Nightmare - 16mm - Please help...

    I´m working for the first time in Brazilian Cinema as a assistent editor and i`m having a serious problem with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
    I´ve read the manual but I can´t get any solution.
    We shoot the movie in 16mm with an Aaton minima camera.
    The telecine was made to dv tapes.
    I´ve created a database in Cinema tools with the flex files, exported a xml to final cut and batch captured.
    My problem is:
    When I use the Cinema tools reverse telecine and open my clip in Final Cut (6.0.3), it still contain fields and I can´t read the letters of the window burn
    The field pattern is A2 B2 C1 D1 D3 -- Field 2 only as we can read in the manual.
    I´m reversing for 23.98 fps
    I´ve tried with the "Standard upper/lower" checked and unchecked with no positive results... When I open in the Final Cut, in a 23.98 project, and see the clip
    frame by frame, I can´t read the letters and there is fields... I´ve tried the other options too... But the pull down is always there
    In page 132 of Cinema tools manual,you can read in the "Check telecine results" session ---> "each letter should be clearly legible..."
    That´s my nightmare... What should I do? Can anyone give me a solution for this problem??
    Thanks for reading...

    Ugh - single field telecine.
    I've never had to put single field video through Cinema Tools so I shouldn't be commenting - but I happen to know that another guy with a -similar- but different problem with single field telecine video in CT set his field dominance to F1-F2, and got usable video. Thought I'd mention it.
    See here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1563046&tstart=13
    Single field telecine isn't that complicated, it should be easy for CT to just remove the extra field from the sequence. Make sure you're starting on an A frame (or field, in your case, I suppose.)
    Again, never done single field video in CT, so feel free to ignore me completely.

  • Reverse Telecine 24fps Error?!?

    Hi,
    We've troubleshot this all ways possible, it seems, so here goes:
    Our show is downconverting HD to 29.97; we're editing in 23.98 sequences. The other assistant has been able to successfully Reverse Telecine the footage (which we've batch-captured from a DVCam deck) from 29.97 to 23.98. On my system, however, when I choose the Reverse Telecine option in FCP 5.1.1, the footage ends up as 24 fps. IE, in the Video Rate column, it shows up as 24 fps.
    It doesn't matter which system the footage has been captured on; on his system, if he's done the RT, then it shows up correctly as 23.98. If I RT on my system, it shows up as 24. (And any footage which he has RTed on his system correctly imports onto my system at 23.98.)
    Any ideas?
    We've played around with (seemingly) all the sequence/capture presets and nothing affects the above result. Otherwise, all our settings - including Cinema Tools - are set the same.
    Any advice would be most helpful.
    -Chris

    Hi,
    Thanks for your replies. We just discovered it today - there's a hidden preference in Cinema Tools where you can choose to conform to 24 or 23.98 fps; this preference is not available in Final Cut.
    What you have to do is: in Cinema Tools, go to File > Open Clip, which will bring up a clip and options for Reverse-Telecine and Conform. Then, if you click on the Conform option, the next window will give you the ability to change the fps for conforming. Change to 23.98. Even if you Cancel without RTing the clip, the option will remain as whichever you selected. Then close and reopen Cinema Tools and you can Batch RT from Cinema Tools or FCP correctly.
    Note that if you change the fps in the Rev Telecine option previous, the changed fps will not remain as default. Also note that you have to capture a clip (or have a movie file somewhere on the drive) in order to be able to access these preferences.
    Much grief from some lousy program design.
    Thanks for the help.
    -Chris

  • Reverse Telecine vs. Convert EDL

    First posted this in the FCP discussion forum and didn't receive a response. Admittedly, I didn't wait very long.
    Simple question, long explanation. Apologies in advance.
    Basically, a new client of mine shot a project on film, had the footage telecined without sound and synced the sound himself to help whomever was going to cut it. My issue is this, he synced everything before reversing the telecine on the clips, so everyting is still 29.97. The project will eventually go out to film, so a 23.98 EDL will have to be created.
    In past projects, when I received telecined footage I'd reverse the telecine before syncing sound, and my EDL's have always been fine. My question is this, if I reverse telecine now, is his work syncing sound in 29.97 lost? Should I just cut in 29.97 and convert the EDL from 30 to 24 in Cinema Tools when everything is finished? I am extremely hesitant to do this, because in the past I've always tried to keep my "23.98" ducks in a row.
    I'd prefer to reverse telecine and work in 23.98, but don't relish the thought of re-syncing sound that has already been synced. There's roughly 10 hours of footage.
    Thanks.
    Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1.25 Dual G4

    I'm curious how you solved this problem - I'm assuming you did figure it out as time stands still for no Editor : - )Please share?
    Thanks much.

  • Reverse Telecine Vs. Converted EDL

    Simple question, long explanation. Apologies in advance.
    Basically, a new client of mine shot a project on film, had the footage telecined without sound and synced the sound himself to help whomever was going to cut it. My issue is this, he synced everything before reversing the telecine on the clips, so everyting is still 29.97. The project will eventually go out to film, so a 23.98 EDL will have to be created.
    In past projects, when I received telecined footage I'd reverse the telecine before syncing sound, and my EDL's have always been fine. My question is this, if I reverse telecine now, is his work syncing sound in 29.97 lost? Should I just cut in 29.97 and convert the EDL from 30 to 24 in Cinema Tools when everything is finished? I am extremely hesitant to do this, because in the past I've always tried to keep my "23.98" ducks in a row.
    I'd prefer to reverse telecine and work in 23.98, but don't relish the thought of re-syncing sound that has already been synced. There's roughly 10 hours of footage.
    Thanks.

    I'm curious how you solved this problem - I'm assuming you did figure it out as time stands still for no Editor : - )Please share?
    Thanks much.

  • TRIED EVERYTHING/NO LUCK with Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools 29.97 to 24p

    I read an article that was on Ken Stones site. It said that, basically you CAN'T
    take a clip that is at 29.97 and has 3:2 pulldown in it, and get it to actual 24 progressive frames? Is this true? Has ANYONE out there actually removed pulldown CORRECTLY with footage shot at 24, then transferred to 29.97?
    I've tried all options with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine, and I always wind up with some interlacing.
    My QT clip has a 3:2 cadence, one can frame through it and see this.
    Am I missing something here? Does anyone know a procedure that can get me to 24 progressive frames. Is there a 3rd party piece of software out there?
    Any relies appreciated.
    G5 2.3 early   Mac OS X (10.4.7)   Cinema Tools V 3.1.1
    G5 2.3   Mac OS X (10.3.8)   Cinema Tools V3.1.1 QT V7.1.2 FCP V5.1.1

    Well then, that is your problem. Those aren't reverse telecin-able. What are reversable are DV tapes that you captured at 29.97...in the DV/NTSC codec.
    Are you working with Digital Intermediates? Or footage telecined to tape?
    Typical Telecine to Tape workflow is:
    Telecine to DVCAM
    Lab provides DVCAM and Flex file to you.
    Open Cinema Tools. Import Flex file and export batch Capture list.
    Import batch capture list into FCP.
    Batch Capture the DV footage.
    Reverse telecine the footage with Cinema Tools.
    Edit.
    What exactly are you doing? Where did these files come from? What is your workflow?
    Shane

  • Remove Advanced Pulldown and Reverse Telecine...

    Hey guys,
    I have read all the hundreds of postings here about problems with removing advanced pulldown. Some people mention using compressor to get the clips to 23.98. I was happy to find that indeed compressor did get the clips that I couldn't remove pulldown in FCP on to 23.98, and that those clips play on the same timeline as my other 23.98 clips. HOWEVER, the clips that were reverse telecined, then brought into FCP play with a stroby effect... There's weird horizontal lines through them. Anyone know what is going on? I guess I will start re-logging and capturing the clips as shorter clips and then try to remove the advanced pulldown on them (from what I understand FCP can't remove the pulldown if there is a cut within a clip...) but if anyone knows of an easier way to deal with this, let me know. I am working with 50 hours of footage, probably 5 of which I couldn't get the advanced pull down off of, so it's a lot of work! Thanks!

    I found this answer to one of the posts about removing advanced pulldown problems:
    "Are you certain it's 24PA and not 24P?
    You might be able to break it into smaller chunks with QT Pro and try removing advanced pulldown on that, but that's just a shot in the dark..."
    Patrick
    Can someone explain how to use Quicktime Pro to break the clips into smaller chunks without going through and re-logging and capturing all over? Although, I already put all the clips that didn't get the pulldown removed in FCP through cinema tools to make them 23.98 too...I suppose this will make it impossible for me to use the QT PRo method...I am losing days of work here making smaller and smaller clips out of this material by logging and capturing over and over so I'm desperate to make sure there's not an easier way around this...
    Outside of when you are tranferring to film, does anyone have a really good reason to shoot 24pA on the dvx100? With this project it was definitely a mistake!

  • And yet another reverse telecine question. =)

    Okay so I shot the footage in 24p advanced on a dvx100b. I batch reverse telecined in cinema tools. It worked fine except for the first frame of some of the final reverse telecined files. Only on some of the files (randomly) the first frame is interlaced. This only happened to some of the files and it is not really a big deal because there is nothing important usually in the first frame but it is a little worrying. Could it be because I didnt really pay attention to which of the 5 frame set (0-5/A-D frames where frame 3/C is the interlaced frame in 24p advanced) was captured as the first frame during capturing? I have heard that you must capture the 0/A frame as the first frame for reverse telecining/advanced pulldown removal to work. Is this true. Even if so, the whole clip other than the first frame is still fine so, any ideas?

    Ive received an answer to this in another forum. It is due to the fact that cinema tools has no other field to combine with for the first frame depending on which of the 5 field sequence it started recording in. It is really no problem because it is only the very first frame that is affected.

  • Hvx200 1080i 24p Footage not Properly Reverse Telecining

    So I've got a bunch of footage that we shot using the 1080i 24p setting on the hvx200 which yielded 24-in-60 footage, which normally isn't a problem and the other 2 cameras we were shooting (an hv20 and hg10, both in 24p mode) produce the same kind of files. after batching everything out to compressor to remove the telecine, and convert to 1920x1080 prores, i just discovered that all the HVX footage is true 24p, but didn't remove the pulldown correctly, and most every frame is now interlaced.
    I'm trying to figure out if it's a compressor issue, a dvchdpro issue, or a computer/install issue. I've had some QT plug-ins that break the reverse telecine function, but considering the hv20 and hg10 footage converted just fine i don't think it's that.
    also, after trying to convert to directly to prores and run through cinema tools to do a manual RT, i don't get the option to RT. and lastly using JES Deinterlacer when i set it up and submit i get a "cadence not found" error. it's also is reading the file as progressive when i first put it in JES.
    I've also tried running the RT through final cut directly as some of those old pany cams have RT flags and FCP can handle the RT process internally.
    Any thoughts anyone? has anyone ever run 1080i 24p footage through compressor and achieved a true 24p framerate, or do i have an isolated instance here?

    so after sleeping on the problem, i took the footage and ran compressed it out to prores422, this time making sure to select a frame rate of 29.97 AND checking the "interlaced" button on the codec page. after batching the footage to make it true 60i, i then ran it through compressor again to remove the pulldown, and everything worked as it should. I think the problem arose from the footage reporting itself as DVCHD PRO 30P instead of 60i, and compressor wasn't seeing any fields and therefor not seeing any cadence

  • 24p reverse telecine

    I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

    workflow:
    shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
    import/transfer P2 files into FCP
    Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
    problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
    Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
    I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
    installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
    upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
    I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
    Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
    I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
    I uninstall with FCS remover again.
    I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
    I uninstall with FCS remover again.
    I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
    I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

  • Reverse Telecine error

    Does any one know what an "Error-43" means in the reverse telecine log? I am not able to batch reverse or single clip reverse any of my clips. The process stops 3/4 of the way through, I have tried many different clips and settings but keep getting error -43 in the log....?

    remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

  • Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools

    My 24p fcp project is finished and I need to reverse telecine it to get rid of the ugly interlacing. How do I do this?
    I've tried importing the movie into Cinema Tools and it keeps crashing. When I import the whole thing as a single clip (QT Movie), the Reverse Telecine button isn't available.
    Also, why can't I import an mpeg-2 clip?
    I'm using Cinema Tools 2.2, in case this has something to do with it.
    Thanks in advance.

    Oh, and Mr. Gilman was saying that there will be interlacing no matter what if it's on DVD or Beta? Why is this?
    It's what I was trying to tell you when I said If tape, you need the pulldown anyway. If DVD, the pulldown would be added by the player.
    You have to understand where the interlacing is coming from. It is coming from the pulldown inserted to bring the fps from 24 to 30...
    Google reveals these Pulldown explanation pages:
    http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
    http://home.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
    http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html
    http://www.denecke.com/24pinfo.htm
    here's a visual representation of 24P with pulldown added to be recorded on a 29.97 tape (this is how all feature films are broadcast on NTSC)
    You can see from this image that two frames BC and CD are interlaced - that is, they are made up of two fields taken from different frames. When a DVD has 24fps material on it, the DVD player automatically inserts this pulldown to bring it up to 30 fps so it can be shown on a regular TV.
    Now. I believe your problem may stem from an incorrect field order, but first I want to ask - When you created your export of your movie that you fed into DVDSP to make your DVD, did you try importing it into FCP and playing it back on your TV. Did it look okay then?
    Patrick

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