Rtc battery in dv3505

The rtc battery in the DV3505 has wires attached with a small connector on the end. Anyone know 1) if it's possible to replace just the battery and re-use the connector and 2) what sort of battery is it (they are usually 2032)? I'm hoping just to have to take the laptop apart once to fit a new battery, rather than one time to find out what the battery is and then again to fit the replacement.

Yes you can & we do this all the time as cheaper than buying purpose cabled batteries & we can buy better quality cells & they are very new & not very old stock which is case when buying complete in many cases.
just remove the insulation carefully then pull the cable from its spot weld points noting polarity then remount to new cell. You can solder it if you have a nice hot iron & do it really quickly applying little heat to the cell.
Check cable connector for voltage reading before wrapping assembly.
Use some shrink wrap for first insulation wrap of cell & cable & hot air gun to shape it nicely to cell & taper down to cable.
Use some electical tape for a second wrap & make sure back end is sealed with tape then do a nice neat wrap around the assembly & all should be good.
just make sure you buy a quility 3V lithium cell (2032) & not china rubbish. Also use a good quality amalgamating insulation tape.
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Similar Messages

CMOS / RTC Battery for Satellite A100-326?

Hi,
I'm after a replacement CMOS/RTC battery for my A100-326
I've got my machine open and located the battery but it has no model number on it.
I have contacted a Toshiba assistance center and they replied that the battery is part of the board and the whole board has to be replaced. However, if I can find the reference for the battery, I have a friend in a computer store that will replace it with a new one.
Any help would be great. Thanks!
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Hi
Why you want to replace this
Such battery is reachable
To charge the RTC battery you have to connect the AC adaptor to the notebook.
The main battery should be inserted too and the notebook should run for 20.24 hours.
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Could anybody help me to replace CMOS (RTC) battery for my laptop HP G62-b25sa pls? And How can I find the correct CMOS battery for this model HP G62-b25sa ?

Hi,
The following manuals will shows you correct part # and how to replace it:
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02641795.pdf
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02542455.pdf
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Satellite A65-S126: Cannot find the RTC battery

I have my machine turn down but cannot find the batteries to replace them. Based on Toshiba support the P/N are P000444350 but there is no such item in the case that I can see. Any ideas..?
Even the disassembly manuals online do not show them.
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Sorry for my misunderstanding but what battery do you mean exactly.
Do you mean the main battery or the tiny RTC battery which is fixed on the motherboard?!
> Also according to the operation manual these batteries take power from the main battery.
This is not exactly right.
The RTC battery provides power to the motherboard therewith the internal clock and the BIOS can run 24/7.
It does no matter if the main battery is empty. The RTC should provide the power to motherboard for several times also if the main battery is empty.
If the RTC battery is empty the motherboard cannot be provided with power and the internal clock, BIOS will be reset.
In such case you have to connect the main battery and the AC adaptor to the notebook and let the battery charge for about 12 hours.
For details please check the user manual -> battery chapter
best regards

Laptop do not boot after remove RTC battery !!!

After remove RTC battery for clear the power-on password.
my laptop is power on and fan is working but dont boot. just black screen.
helpppppppp

Polarity is really not an issue since there is a connector from the batery to the systemboard. It is either plugged in or not since there is a keyway at the header on the systemboard.
The following is an image of how the connection looks. ref: the service and maintenence guide
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Portege M100 - How to replace the RTC battery?

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Hi friend,
its easy to replace the RTC battery on your machine. I did it already and I had no problems during the replacement, I mean it was a little bit tricky to find the batt. but I will give everything from my experience. ;)
Look first at the wireless lan card, theres a slot an under the slot is the minipci-wlan-card located. Near the wireless lan card slot is some little cover, this cover must be removed (gently). The RTC battery is located in some white insulator, but before peeling that little battery out, you must disconnect the battery from the mainboard. After disconnecting it, just lift the RTC up and place the new one there.
Thats all, unfortunately I cannot serve you with some pics, so you will have to imagine it by yourself. ;)
Good luck and greets
P.s.: If you feel uncomfortable in replacing the batt, then ask some techie to help you.

HP Pavilion dv3550el, how to replace RTC battery ?

HP Pavilion dv3550el
Where is RTC battery on my laptop ? how can i replace it ?
Thanks, Paolo.
This question was solved.
View Solution.

Hi Paolotia,
Replacing the RTC battery in your notebook does involve rather extensive disassembly. You will have to disassemble it down to the system board.
See page 77 of the Maintenence & Service guide for your notebook series.
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Replacing RTC battery on DV3-2350EL

Hi,
is it possible to replace the RTC battery on HP Pavilion DV3-2350el without make warranty void?
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Hi,
The replacement procedure is detailed starting on Page 84 of your Maintenance & Service Guide.
I don't believe this will effect your warranty, but you can always check with HP using the relevant link below.
If you live in the US, contact HP Here.
If you are in another part of the world, start Here.
Regards,
DP-K
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Cmos (rtc) battery replacement for hp G62-b25sa

Hello!
Could anybody help me to replace CMOS (RTC) battery for my laptop HP G62-b25sa? And How can I find the correct CMOS battery for this model HP G62-b25sa ?

Hi
Please find the link given below check page number 51 how to replace the CMOS battery on your unit. Part number RTC battery 606015-001.
Link
Let us know how it goes!
"I work for HP."
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Equium L10: Issue with main battery and RTC battery

Hi
I have the Toshiba Equium L10 and it is around 14 months old and I am having problems with the battery pack and how long it lasts after a full charge. I am also having problems with the RTC battery and an ERROR 0271: Check date and time settings message when I turn on the notebook.
With regard to the battery pack, I can fully charge it up in around 3 hours but when I start to use it, it only seems to last around one and a half hours or so and it then needs to be charged again. I may have it on for around 40 minutes or so and then turn it off and come back to it later or in a day(s) or so. How long should I expect from a fully charged battery?
Regarding the RTC batttery, this is really becoming a pain and I have only started getting the ERROR 0271 message at boot time, over the last few weeks or so. I can fully charge the battery pack up and then leave it for a couple of days, but when I turn it on, I get the ERROR 0271 message about the date and time settings being incorrect. Surely after a full charge, the RTC battery should last longer than a couple of days?
The user manual states that if the RTC battery is exhausted or getting low, you should charge the RTC battery for 24 hours, but in another part of the manual it states between 24 and 48 hours, but how can you charge it for that long when the sections regarding the charging of the battery pack state that after charging the battery pack you should disconnect the AC adaptor because leaving it connected will shorten the life of the battery pack. So how can we charge the RTC battery for 24 to 48 hours if we are not supposed to leave the AC adaptor connected after the battery pack is charged - which is around three hours. Any suggestions regarding these problems, would be appreciated.
By the way we all know it's easy to change the RTC/CMOS battery in your desktop base unit, but how easy is it to change it in a Toshiba L10 Equium?
Regards
Brave0

Hi Brave0,
The normal recommendation for the CMOS (RTC) battery is to leave the notebook connected to the AC adapter for at leat 12 hours once the main battery is fully charged. The charging circuitry will divert the charge current to the RTC battery automatically and no current will be passed to your main battery.
The recommendation for not leaving the AC adapter plugged in when the main battery is fully charged is really only applicable to older notebooks which did not use Li-Ion batteries and consequently they had to be fully discharged before recharging so as to avoid any 'memory' effects in the battery.
With modern Li-Ion batteries it is quite safe to leave the battery in place when fully charged and still power the notebook from the AC adapter. The charging circuitry will not pass any charge to the battery if it is fully charged.
regards,

Tecra M5 RTC Battery

I suspect my RTC Battery is dead. I use my laptop on AC most of the time. Recently, when it goes into hibernation it loses time...
Is this a consumer replacable item? Directions available?
Part # for Toshiba M5-S4332
Model: PTM51U-12001P

Hi guys
Generally this problem appears only if the CMOS battery (real time clock) is empty or corrupt.
The real time clock battery provides power for the internal real time clock and calendar. It also maintains the system configuration. If the RTC battery becomes completely discharged, the system loses this data and the real time clock. In such case the message RTC battery is low or CMOS checksum is inconsistent appears.
So I see only two options:
Either you will charge the real time clock battery or you will ask the technician for the replacement.
Usually the battery should be fully charged after 8-9 hoers but try to connect the notebook to the AC adaptor for a longer period.
If it will not help to solve the problem so you have to contact the ASP for the RTC battery replacement.

RTC battery & Sat Pro 6100

Sorry for my bad english.
If the battery cmos of a notebook (I have a sat Pro 6100) is damaged completely, the portable one is ignited equally?

Hi Biagio,
The RTC (or CMOS) battery is installed on the mother-board and is used to maintain the BIOS settings when the notebook is powered off. If the RTC battery is faulty then the date/time and other BIOS settings will not be maintained when the notebook is powered off for any length of time.
The normal notebook battery will be unaffected by the failure of the RTC battery and will still recgarge as normal when the notebook is connected to a mains power supply.
The RTC battery can be charged by connecting the mains power supply but leaving the notebook powered off for about 24 hours. If the date/time is still being lost after this then the RTC battery will need to be replaced by an authorised Toshiba Service Agent.
HTH
Message was edited by: NickyNoogle

RTC Battery Replacement - C55-B5200 Laptop

Where ias the RTC battery located on a Satellite C55-B5200 laptop. Need to be replaced.

I am having the same problem, and took the bottom off, but could find no battery. Did you ever get a response on locating it? Toshiba no help at all, and I do not think I could ever reccomend them to any one.

RTC battery problem A215-S7437

Hi all,
I have been having problems with my Satellite A215-S7437 laptop getting a "CMOS checksum bad" error upon startup for the past couple of months. This error usually occurs the first time I start the computer up in the morning. I press F1 to load defaults and windows starts as normal. No bigs. I tried to charge the RTC battery by leaving the computer plugged in (charging) and on for 24 hours. This didn't seem to help. I also recently updated the BIOS to the latest version. This hasn't helped either.
In addition, sometimes, especially when I haven't turned the computer on for a while, it will fail to boot. No splash screen, just lights and normal HD powering up sound but nothing else. I power-cycle the machine about 10 times and eventually it will start, give me two system beeps and the checksum bad error. I hit F1 to load defaults and Windows starts normally. Today I got a new error "ERROR 0250: System battery is dead - replace and run SETUP. ERROR 02B0: Diskette drive A error. Press F1 to load defaults, F2 to setup." The machine did not respond when I pressed F1 or F2, so I power-cycled it and got my familiar CMOS checksum bad error and it started as usual.
All this to say that I am convinced that my RTC battery is well and truly the cause of my problems and should be replaced. Now, the question is whether or not it can be done without sending my ~3-year-old laptop to a ASP 3 hours away and paying an arm and a leg. I do have a kind friend who I am confident can perform laptop surgery to replace the RTC battery without killing it.
Does anyone know what kind of RTC battery this model takes? Is it soldered to the motherboard? How much would it cost to have the ASP take care of it?
Thanks for all your help.
Regards,
T

Hello
Googling around I found info that for Satellite A210 (similar to your US A215) you can use follow RTC batteries:
RTC battery (Maxell ML1220T10) Lithium-Ion 3.0V 14 mAH
RTC battery (Maxell ML1220HT10) Lithium-Ion 3.0V 18 mAH
RTC battery (Sanyo ML1220T28) Lithium-Ion 3.0V 15 mAH
RTC battery (Panasonic ML1220/B) Lithium-Ion 3.0V 17 mA
Replacement procedure is pretty complicated and the whole notebook must be disassembled. If you are not familiar with this stuff you should not do this to avoid some hardware damage.
I dont know how much you must pay for replacement by ASP. Call and ask them.
Bye

Envy x360 battery short and CMOS/RTC | No dedicated CMOS battery = Kafkaesque HP support nightmare

Relevant Case Number:
3015038426
Caveat:
If I'm wrong about this, I'll eat my hat with a sauce made of ultra-expensive brand-name HP ink.
Question:
Does anyone at HP want to take reponsibility for a series of the company's tech support representatives giving horribly wrong hardware information, wasting customer time and money?
Summary:
1. I have apparently experienced a short in my main battery.
2. In the x360, the real-time clock (RTC) and BIOS settings are apparently powered by the main battery, not a separate CMOS/RTC battery.
3. (1) and (2) explain why my symptoms include a CMOS checksum error and 0-set RTC on boot.
4. Three separate HP representatives have been absolutely insistent that:
(a) I have a CMOS/RTC battery that just isn't disclosed in the service manual.
    (b) My symptoms indicate the need for CMOS/RTC battery replacement.
    (c) This requires a 2-week+ send-in service, even though I live right next to an authorized support center.
    (d) A much less intrusive main battery replacement could not help me, since I have a CMOS issue.
5. I have already had to pay $54 and change for a local shop to confirm that HP support has been, for want of better terms, full of it -- they have been BSing me by phone and live chat, and there is no dedicated CMOS battery.
6. Because of HP's intransigence, I now face the choice of either
    (a) paying another $54+ to get myself a new main battery on the open market
         or
    (b) completely unnecessarily going without my primary work machine for weeks in order to get a new main battery for free from HP. That's assuming that the people at the service center know that replacing the motherboard won't do anything for this machine.
Hilarious and/or Depressing Support Record:
1. Symptoms
This is an HP Envy x360 15t hybrid notebook, model u011dx (G6T85UA).
It had been suspended but suddenly appeared off. It would not power on until AC power was attached.
It showed a CMOS checksum error (502) on boot, and its real-time clock did not hold the time between power cycles.
It had inconsistent problems with failed or severely delayed POST completion.
If AC power was removed during operation, it immediately died. Information about the main battery still showed up in the OS, where it appeared fully charged but never discharged at all.
The light next to the AC plug would often blink blue depending on the power state.
The machine could POST normally (except for the CMOS and RTC failures) with the main battery physically detached.
2. Call ("Amit")
I don't have a transcript of my initial call with HP ("Amit"), but here is the gist of it. My 502 CMOS checksum error implicates the CMOS battery. My steps are to attempt a BIOS upgrade. Failing that, the computer would need to be sent in for service so that the CMOS battery could be replaced. Amit described it to me as the shape of a small tablet.
3. False Hope
When I had initially called, the case was off of the PC and both sides of the motherboard were accessible so that I could try to see if there were any visually obvious problems with the CMOS/RTC battery. Naturally, I couldn't find it, and I had hoped the call would help me. In any case, Amit would need to call back in 60-90 minutes after I had the chance to take care of other things and re-connect the machine's components so that I could boot it and do a BIOS upgrade.
Just before he called back, the machine appeared for one or two power cycles to have overcome its problem. It even seemed like it was drawing main battery power for a few moments during a session with AC power detached. Amit closed the case for me pending the problems recurring.
I concluded that one of the following two things must have happened. Either:
    (a) All of the problems were related to the main battery, and the main battery connector had just gotten jarred loose so that one or two pins were not contacting properly. By disconnecting and reconnecting the main battery in my search for the RTC/CMOS battery, I had solved the issue by reseating it properly.
or
    (b) All of the problems were related to the CMOS battery. But by having it on AC power for testing for a little while, I had charged the CMOS battery enough to enable POST and for it to mediate the transition from AC to battery power (I know this probably isn't how it should work, but hey).
I also updated the BIOS to the newest version so that I could ensure I was following the pre-shipment troubleshooting step set out by Amit.
Fairly quickly after the second call and the closing of the case, all of the symptoms recurred. I carefully re-checked and re-seated the main battery to rule out (a) above. I then decided to run the computer on AC power for several hours to test theory (b) above. When this failed, I went back to the HP site and opted for chat support.
4. First Chat (KARISHMA BARPANDA)
Gist:
I clearly have a problem with my invisible CMOS battery. Also, this CMOS battery is absent from the manual because it isn't supposed to be user-removable, not because it doesn't exist. Note especially the exchange at 2:02.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
1:38 PM  Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.
1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.
1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi
1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?
1:38 PM  Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 3015038426
1:38 PM  Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused
1:39 PM  Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?
1:40 PM  Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model
1:42 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.
1:43 PM  Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?
1:43 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.
1:44 PM  Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?
1:45 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !
1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair.
1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code.
1:46 PM  Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem
1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.
1:47 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery,
1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?
1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable.
1:48 PM  Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?
1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook.
1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection
1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it
1:50 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain.
1:51 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check.
1:52 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments.
1:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Thank you
1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.
1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.
1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04513489
1:57 PM  Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time
1:57 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery
1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it.
1:59 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there.
1:59 PM  Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 41
1:59 PM  Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf
2:00 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue.
2:01 PM  Adam Colligan: Sigh.
2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.
2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks
2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part.
2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?
2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?
2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide
2:05 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it.
2:06 PM  Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.
2:10 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?
2:11 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?
2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?
2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?
2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.
2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?
2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.
2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty
2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.
2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.
2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.
2:28 PM  Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?
2:30 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
1:38 PM  Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi1:38 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?1:38 PM  Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 30150384261:38 PM  Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused1:39 PM  Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?1:40 PM  Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model1:42 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.1:43 PM  Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?1:43 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.1:44 PM  Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?1:45 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair. 1:46 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code. 1:46 PM  Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.1:47 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery, 1:47 PM  Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable. 1:48 PM  Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?1:48 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook. 1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection1:49 PM  Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it1:50 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain. 1:51 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check. 1:52 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments. 1:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Thank you1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.1:56 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c045134891:57 PM  Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time1:57 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. 1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery1:58 PM  Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it. 1:59 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there. 1:59 PM  Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 411:59 PM  Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf2:00 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue. 2:01 PM  Adam Colligan: Sigh.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?2:04 PM  Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide2:05 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it. 2:06 PM  Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.2:10 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?2:11 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.2:26 PM  Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty2:26 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.2:27 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.2:28 PM  Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?2:30 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
5. I pay money to have the CMOS battery checked
Clearly, I wasn't inspired by that chat. Maybe the rep was just wrong about the hardware. More likely, it was just my own ignorance that kept me from finding the CMOS battery, and so I would benefit from a real technician checking it, maybe replacing it or telling me I really did need to send it to HP for service, and also looking at the main battery circuit.
A couple of hours and $54.13 in diagnostic fees later, I had my answer from the technicians. My main battery had a short in it and needed to be replaced. There is no dedicated CMOS / RTC battery on this motherboard. The clock and BIOS use main battery power, and it makes perfect sense that the main battery fault would therefore include symptoms normally associated with a simultaneous failure of a main battery and a dedicated CMOS battery in another computer. This PC is not unique in lacking a dedicated CMOS battery. I could buy a new main battery for around $55.
Obviously, I was now thoroughly upset at HP Support. With this clearly being a main battery issue and the main battery being easy for me to replace and covered by warranty, HP could just send me a new main battery. I wouldn't even care if they wanted to tell me that swapping it myself would void the rest of the warranty period -- better than going without my PC for weeks on end. Failing that, I would probably rather even pay the money for a new battery from a retailer rather than go through the stupidity of sending this PC in just to have the battery swapped out. But now I had already paid the equivalent of that new battery cost just to get the correct information about my hardware, solely because official HP Support had given me false information -- twice!
6. Second chat ("Justine")
Gist:
So I re-connected with technical support in the hope that something could be done to make the situation right. I briefly summarized the problem and gave the case number in the webform submission not shown. Make sure you're sitting down for this transcript and have either whisky or popcorn depending on whether you work for HP or not.
Note in particular at 5:28, where my soul tries to escape my body, and 6:00, where Justine accidentally states the whole issue without actually understanding.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
5:10 PM  Support session established with Justine.
5:10 PM  Adam Colligan: Hi Justine
5:11 PM  Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.
5:11 PM  Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?
5:11 PM  Adam Colligan: [redacted]
5:12 PM  Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.
5:13 PM  Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA
5:15 PM  Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?
5:15 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes.
5:16 PM  Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.
5:19 PM  Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.
5:20 PM  Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery.
5:20 PM  Justine: -
5:22 PM  Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?
5:22 PM  Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.
5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it
5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*
5:27 PM  Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.
5:28 PM  Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?
5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh my god.
5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.
5:29 PM  Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.
5:31 PM  Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?
5:32 PM  Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.
5:33 PM  Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.
5:34 PM  Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?
5:35 PM  Justine: Yes Adam.
5:36 PM  Justine: It will be for free.
5:36 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?
5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?
5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center
5:38 PM  Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.
5:39 PM  Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.
5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+.
5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:
5:41 PM  Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.
5:41 PM  Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.
5:44 PM  Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.
5:44 PM  Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.
5:46 PM  Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.
5:46 PM  Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from
5:47 PM  Connecting...
5:47 PM  Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.
5:47 PM  Support session established with Justine.
5:47 PM  Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.
5:49 PM  Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.
5:50 PM  Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory
5:51 PM  Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.
5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.
5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?
5:52 PM  Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.
5:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?
5:53 PM  Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.
5:54 PM  Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue.
5:54 PM  Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.
5:55 PM  Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?
5:56 PM  Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically.
5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer
5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.
5:57 PM  Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.
5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize about that.
5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste?
5:59 PM  Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.
5:59 PM  Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.
6:00 PM  Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.
6:00 PM  Justine: Is that okay?
6:00 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?
6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery?
6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]
6:02 PM  Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.
6:02 PM  Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?
6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.
6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
5:10 PM  Support session established with Justine.5:10 PM  Adam Colligan: Hi Justine5:11 PM  Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.5:11 PM  Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?5:11 PM  Adam Colligan: [redacted]5:12 PM  Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.5:13 PM  Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA5:15 PM  Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?5:15 PM  Adam Colligan: Yes.5:16 PM  Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.5:19 PM  Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.5:20 PM  Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery. 5:20 PM  Justine: -5:22 PM  Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?5:22 PM  Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it5:23 PM  Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM  Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM  Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM  KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.5:25 PM  Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*5:27 PM  Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.5:28 PM  Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh my god.5:28 PM  Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.5:29 PM  Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.5:31 PM  Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?5:32 PM  Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.5:33 PM  Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.5:34 PM  Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?5:35 PM  Justine: Yes Adam. 5:36 PM  Justine: It will be for free.5:36 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?5:37 PM  Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center5:38 PM  Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.5:39 PM  Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+. 5:40 PM  Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:5:41 PM  Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.5:41 PM  Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.5:44 PM  Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.5:44 PM  Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.5:46 PM  Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.5:46 PM  Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from5:47 PM  Connecting...5:47 PM  Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.5:47 PM  Support session established with Justine.5:47 PM  Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.5:49 PM  Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.5:50 PM  Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory5:51 PM  Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.5:51 PM  Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?5:52 PM  Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.5:52 PM  Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?5:53 PM  Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.5:54 PM  Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue. 5:54 PM  Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.5:55 PM  Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?5:56 PM  Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically. 5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.5:57 PM  Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.5:57 PM  Justine: I apologize about that.5:57 PM  Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste? 5:59 PM  Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.5:59 PM  Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.6:00 PM  Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.6:00 PM  Justine: Is that okay?6:00 PM  Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery? 6:01 PM  Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]6:02 PM  Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.6:02 PM  Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.6:03 PM  Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
7. In desperation, I try in vain to attract @HPSupport's attention on Twitter
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
@adamcolligan
6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
@adamcolligan6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
No response; not sure if I expected one or not.

Update time! I know you've been dying to know how this has been turning out.
I provided all the requested information in response to the private message from HP staff. Nothing ever came of it; as far as I can tell, no real human being ever attempted to contact me after being "forwarded" the details of the case.
Three days after I tweeted at them, @HPSupport sent me a series of public replies. In essence, they told me to abandon useless post-sales technical support and get information from HP Sales.
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
Adam Colligan ‏@AdamColligan Apr 13
@HPSupport No but seriously. Does the HP Envy x360 have a dedicated RTC / CMOS battery or not?
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Hello Adam, Eddie here. Saw your tweet. Our Product Information team will be able to assist with your inquiry. Dial:.. ^HPCare
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan 1800-752-0900. Follow prompts for “product information”. If you prefer email click this link http://ow.ly/HYnHT .. ^HPCare
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Once there be sure to choose "Contact an HP sales specialist" as your subject. Let me know if you require further... ^HPCare
HP Support ‏@HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan information and/or assistance. Have an awesome day! Thanks! ^HPCare
Now, being the exhaustive give-it-a-try kind of guy that I am, I tried *both* the phone and the email path to support. I may have been told once on the phone to try the email, but it's hard to even remember at the moment. I'll just paste the email outcome here.
Me (into the webform):
HP reps have directed me to contact sales support after others in the company were unable to help with a technical product question. I need to know whether the HP Envy x360 model G6T85UA (should be board 780958-501 and main battery 760944-421) has a dedicated CMOS/RTC battery. If it does, I need to know *where* it is connected to the board. This is a fairly urgent issue for me implicating a disconnect or swap-out of the main battery while AC power is not being supplied.
HP:
Dear Adam,
Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center.
I understand the you are still seeking resolution for your technical concern and I’m sorry to hear that this remains unresolved.
I'm very sorry, but our email sales team does not handle technical or product support concerns. We can only handles sales inquiries pertaining to orders placed in our store.
HP Technical Support will be able to provide you with service and support for hardware, software, and parts replacement of HP products that are still covered under warranty.
I strongly suggest that you contact the HP Technical Support Team since your matter requires technical expertise. HP Technical Support can best assist you and can be reached 24 hours a day at: http://www.hp.com/contacthp
Below is step by step guide how to obtain the webform/online form:
1. Please copy and paste this link http://www.hp.com/contacthp into a new browser.
2. Please enter your model number in the "Enter my model number" search field provided then hit the "Find my product" button to generate the result.
3. Select the correct product from the search results.
4. On the next page wait for a few seconds to load the webform.
5. Scroll down to find the webform.
5. Complete the webform then hit the "Submit" button.
6. After you fill out the online form, you will receive a Technical Support case number. You will also be able to engage with a Tech Support product specialist either by chat or they will give you a call at your earliest convenience.
By the way, I have seen a link which might help you with this concern. Here's the link:
http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=G6T85UA
The link shows the the HP ENVY 15-U011DX X360 CONVERTIBLE PC (ENERGY STAR) has the 780958-501 motherboard but has a different battery. It doesn't show also the RTC Battery and where you can find it. Please contact our HP Technical Support for other information.
I hope this information has been of assistance to you, Adam. Please reply to this message if there is anything further we can do. For your convenience, you may also call the HP.com Sales Center directly at 1-888-222-0029 between 7:00 AM - 2:00 AM EST, seven days a week.
Customer Satisfaction is our store’s top priority. Please tell us about your email experience today. To participate, please click on our Customer Satisfaction Survey link below.
Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business.
Regards,
Regine G.
Oh dear. So technical support doesn't have technical information about HP machines, and sales support doesn't answer technical questions about HP machines and refers you to technical support. Brilliant. But by this time, I of course knew better than to actually *believe* what someone was telling me, so I used the sales phone number instead.
The sales guy was super eager to help, especially since I framed this as a problem of future use. I work on disaster vulnerability issues. If I buy Envy x360 15ts and use them in a place where there isn't AC power for a while, can I swap spare batteries into them without screwing up the BIOS and real-time clock settings?
He put me on hold two or three times for what I was led to believe were very thorough attempts to get me a totally definitive answer. And this is what someone eventually told him to tell me. All HP machines ship with CMOS batteries.
So I must have been mistaken all along, right? The CMOS battery must have stopped working at the same time as the main battery. It must just be that neither I nor my local repair shop could find my CMOS battery because we all have the wrong prescriptions on our glasses and contact lenses. Well, there's just one small issue with getting to that conclusion: what HP told me about my machine was, once again, totally false.
How do I know? Because I still didn't believe HP, and rather than shipping my compter off for weeks in the big padded box, I ordered a new main battery for a total of just over $60. I swapped it. Guess what happened, HP? If you guessed, "every aspect of the problem instantly resolved, because there never was a CMOS/RTC battery in this machine in the first place", you would win a gold star. But I'm assuming you'd also lose your job, because this particular piece of information has somehow been banished and outlawed from the minds of HP employees and contractors.
I wonder: would anybody at HP be interested in apologizing to me, much less in finding a way to make up for the $115+ I've lost because nobody at any stage to this point has been willing to act like a human being?
BUT WAIT, THERE'S GREAT NEWS
I shouldn't make it seem through this thread that HP totally lacks competence and doesn't care about me at all. Because within two hours of receiving the email from HP Sales telling me that they weren't going to do anything about my problem, I started receiving advertising email blasts full of great offers and promotions about buying a new HP laptop and other great products! Yay! I guess I'm not invisible after all. And I'm sure if I bought *more* stuff from HP, they would take care of me then. Right?

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